Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[Schillok]

Uhh... well, then the lover rule needs to be revised!  Stop all games, we need to change that now.

If Haibara x Conan is possible, so should be Mitsuhiko x Haibara or Ayumi x Conan. Or Ayumi x Haibara. Even if that means the possibility of Genta x Tequila...
On a second thought, the other way seems much more reasonable: Children can't be lovers in this game. None of them. At least not to a degree where they would kill themselves if the target of their affection dies. (Meaning not in the sense of lovers gameplay-wise...)

I know, but it will still stall them for at least a phase. So it makes up for the fact that two people would die at the same time usually. But a 2 phase penalty would usually yield the same results anyway.

Well, the BO won't know why they didn't kill anyone. They just might just as well have just stumbled across a healer. In the worst case they could kill Kobayashi-sensei who got injured after healing herself during the night before. Or run into Araide once more. Or the lovers have gotten someone to help keeping them alive while their protection is down for 2 phases.

Same for the BO lovers: The town can't be sure if they just tried to kill a town lover pair. Or if a protector was the one who stopped the lynching. They might reconsider. And the BO has one more night where it can use its lovers before they are lynched. That is: If the BO does not manage to gain the superiority in the lynching vote until then anyway.

[PhoenixTears]

Uhh... well, then the lover rule needs to be revised!  Stop all games, we need to change that now.

If Haibara x Conan is possible, so should be Mitsuhiko x Haibara or Ayumi x Conan. Or Ayumi x Haibara. Even if that means the possibility of Genta x Tequila...
On a second thought, the other way seems much more reasonable: Children can't be lovers in this game. None of them. At least not to a degree where they would kill themselves if the target of their affection dies. (Meaning not in the sense of lovers gameplay-wise...)

Genta, Ayumi and Mitsuhiko can't be lovers because of the possibility of lovers + DBs, same for Sonoko and her friend. That makes it way too easy to group the town together, and makes it more difficult on the BO. It has nothing to do with what's "fair" for the children roles.

Conan and Haibara can be lovers or a friend because they don't have a group.

It's been this way for a long time and worked just fine. I see no reason to change it.

[Akonyl]

tbh, schillok's just sad that ayumi x conan is impossible.

[Eve]

tbh, schillok's just sad that ayumi x conan is impossible.

^ It's obvious

[Kleene Onigiri]

BTW, Sonoko can't befriend children. So no Sonoko + Haibara. Or was that changed?

there's never been a stipulation against friending children, afaik. She just can't friend the DBs, because they're already in a group.

Well, then I demand equal rights for all the children!  :)
Feels strange to allow no child as lovers, no best-friends as lovers, but some children (but not all!) as best-friends.

Actually, I think DBs could become lovers when we include a special rule XD

Like, if A DB ends up choosen as a lover, the DB will become the lover.
For that, that DB will be the only DB in the game (the other DBs get randomly another role).
(So conan x ayumi will be possible :x)

I think DB/DB can be lovers too, since they know each other anyway. Would be like with the BOs.

Dunno about sonoko. Don't think you can make her a lover. Well, you can but then she wouldn't have a best friend as a consequence.

Also afaik, yumi can't choose herself as a lover? Or can she? Theoretically, she should be able too. But when I asked the GM I got a "No way!" T_T

I know, but it will still stall them for at least a phase. So it makes up for the fact that two people would die at the same time usually. But a 2 phase penalty would usually yield the same results anyway. Okay, so if Yôko dies, Kogoro becomes sober?

So, yoko is the new secret role? XD

[Eve]

there's never been a stipulation against friending children, afaik. She just can't friend the DBs, because they're already in a group.

Well, then I demand equal rights for all the children! 
Feels strange to allow no child as lovers, no best-friends as lovers, but some children (but not all!) as best-friends.

Actually, I think DBs could become lovers when we include a special rule XD

Like, if A DB ends up choosen as a lover, the DB will become the lover.
For that, that DB will be the only DB in the game (the other DBs get randomly another role).
(So conan x ayumi will be possible :x)

I think DB/DB can be lovers too, since they know each other anyway. Would be like with the BOs.

Dunno about sonoko. Don't think you can make her a lover. Well, you can but then she wouldn't have a best friend as a consequence.

Also afaik, yumi can't choose herself as a lover? Or can she? Theoretically, she should be able too. But when I asked the GM I got a "No way!" T_T


[quote="Dus wrote:I know, but it will still stall them for at least a phase. So it makes up for the fact that two people would die at the same time usually. But a 2 phase penalty would usually yield the same results anyway. Okay, so if Yôko dies, Kogoro becomes sober?

So, yoko is the new secret role? XD



[/quote]
why would DBs want to be lovers with each other?   so once the other die they can die too? LOL

Too much confusion, I don't see anything wrong with the original rule..... Let's stick with it

[Dus]

I wouldn't object to you making yourself a lover.

What would Yoko`s abilities be, though? Singing?

[Schillok]

also:

Had I not been a protector, you would have had a 50/50 chance every night to kill 2 people, which averages out to the 1 kill a night average, which makes it perfectly balanced, imo.  

Actually, it is 50% chance to kill 2 people in 1 night, 25% to kill 2 in 2 nights, 12.5% to kill 2 in 3 night, 6.75% to kill 2 in 4 nights...
So it is not perfectly balanced.  ::)
Though, having a lover is already a big advantage for a townie. And since right now the ability is very flexible (Allows protections during the day if items start to get stolen, allows one of the lovers to act more reckless) even in case of a "fair pair" it is already good. Like you said, what made the whole issue so problematic is when it become combined with defensive roles like protectors or healers.

I really have no clue what you're trying to say, here. The chances of you killing someone on one night doesn't affect the chance that you'll kill anyone on another night, so every night, given that they use lovey-dovey during the night, you have a 50% chance of choosing the correct lover to kill.

If you kill a non-lover, you are killing 1 townie per night.
If you try to kill a lover, you have a 50% chance for a "score" of 2 townies per night.
If you try again the next night, you have a 50% chance for getting 2 townies in 2 nights.
If you fail and try again the next night you have a 50% chance for getting 2 townies in 3 nights and so on.


The "average score" for killing townies is 1. If you kill townies during 5 nights, you will gain 5 kills.

If you start with a lover it becomes different, depending on when you kill them.

1st night (chance: 50%): 6townies/5days = 1.2 townies per night
2nd night (chance: 25%): 5townies/5days = 1.0 townies per night
3rd night (chance 12.5%): 4 townies/5days = 0.8 townies per night
4rd night (chance: 6.25%): 3townies/5days = 0.6 townies per night
5th night (chance 3.125%): 2 townies/5days = 0.4 townies per night
3.375% chance to not kill them in 5 nights (the game will probably end at that point then...).   = 0 townies per night

So, considering the probabilities for each event the average killing rate becomes:

0.5 * 1.2 + 0.25 * 1 + 0.125 * 0.8 + 0.0625 * 0.6 + 0.03125 * 0.4 + 0.03125 * 0 =
0.6 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.0375 + 0.0125 + 0 = 1.000

edit: Eww, I made a mistake. Looks like Akonyl was right after all... If you assume RANDOM distribution of who the lovers protect and the BO continues to hit one of them every night the average killing score will be 1.0 per night. Like normal.


Which makes the ability better than I though. So, making it a bit worse would be fine considering the other advantages lovers have.

[Kleene Onigiri]

there's never been a stipulation against friending children, afaik. She just can't friend the DBs, because they're already in a group.

Well, then I demand equal rights for all the children!  :)
Feels strange to allow no child as lovers, no best-friends as lovers, but some children (but not all!) as best-friends.

Actually, I think DBs could become lovers when we include a special rule XD

Like, if A DB ends up choosen as a lover, the DB will become the lover.
For that, that DB will be the only DB in the game (the other DBs get randomly another role).
(So conan x ayumi will be possible :x)

I think DB/DB can be lovers too, since they know each other anyway. Would be like with the BOs.

Dunno about sonoko. Don't think you can make her a lover. Well, you can but then she wouldn't have a best friend as a consequence.

Also afaik, yumi can't choose herself as a lover? Or can she? Theoretically, she should be able too. But when I asked the GM I got a "No way!" T_T


[quote="Dus wrote:I know, but it will still stall them for at least a phase. So it makes up for the fact that two people would die at the same time usually. But a 2 phase penalty would usually yield the same results anyway. Okay, so if Yôko dies, Kogoro becomes sober?

So, yoko is the new secret role? XD



[/quote]
why would DBs want to be lovers with each other?  so once the other die they can die too? LOL

Too much confusion, I don't see anything wrong with the original rule..... Let's stick with it
[/quote]

Would be the same as BO. Why would they want to be lovers?
But DB/DB lovers are allowed with the current rules afaik. Since it won't create a alliance that's too big
Same with Sonoko and her friend also being lovers :V

I wouldn't object to you making yourself a lover.

What would Yoko`s abilities be, though? Singing?

Probably XD

[Akonyl]

Also afaik, yumi can't choose herself as a lover? Or can she? Theoretically, she should be able too. But when I asked the GM I got a "No way!" T_T

She's not supposed to be able to, iirc, because the rules used to mention that BO/town lovers would have to kill yumi.

Though, I don't think that the rules say anything about that right now, so it should probably be clarified.

[spoiler]If you kill a non-lover, you are killing 1 townie per night.
If you try to kill a lover, you have a 50% chance for a "score" of 2 townies per night.
If you try again the next night, you have a 50% chance for getting 2 townies in 2 nights.
If you fail and try again the next night you have a 50% chance for getting 2 townies in 3 nights and so on.


The "average score" for killing townies is 1. If you kill townies during 5 nights, you will gain 5 kills.

If you start with a lover it becomes different, depending on when you kill them.

1st night (chance: 50%): 6townies/5days = 1.2 townies per night
2nd night (chance: 25%): 5townies/5days = 1.0 townies per night
3rd night (chance 12.5%): 4 townies/5days = 0.8 townies per night
4rd night (chance: 6.75%): 3townies/5days = 0.6 townies per night
5th night (chance 3.375%): 2 townies/5days = 0.4 townies per night
3.375% chance to not kill them in 5 nights (the game will probably end at that point then...).   = 0 townies per night

So, considering the probabilities for each event the average killing rate becomes:

0.5 * 1.2 + 0.25 * 1 + 0.125 * 0.8 + 0.0675 * 0.6 + 0.03375 * 0.4 + 0.0375 * 0 =
0.6 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.0405 + 0.0135 + 0 = 1.004

Which is slightly higher than 1.0 [/spoiler]

And if you carried it out to an infinite number of nights, it would be exactly 1.0, which still proves the point of "50% chance to kill 2 people every night = average of 1 kill a night", which was what I was saying originally. That's the rate at which you normally kill people, so how is this not balanced?

[Eve]

I wouldn't object to you making yourself a lover.

What would Yoko`s abilities be, though? Singing?

What else can she do?
@ Kleene XD true dat

[Akonyl]

I wouldn't object to you making yourself a lover.

What would Yoko`s abilities be, though? Singing?

What else can she do?
@ Kleene XD true dat

iirc, it was suggested ages ago that yoko be able to woo people by singing, and thus she could force someone to vote alongside her, sort of like a town tequila.

[Eve]

I wouldn't object to you making yourself a lover.

What would Yoko`s abilities be, though? Singing?

What else can she do?
@ Kleene XD true dat

iirc, it was suggested ages ago that yoko be able to woo people by singing, and thus she could force someone to vote alongside her, sort of like a town tequila.

Will the females role be woo too? b/c Haibara, Vermouth, Kir should not be woo by her! lol

[Akonyl]

It is impossible to not be wooed by Yoko's singing!

[Dus]

Everyone's bi for Yôko.