Mafia! Mafia! Mafia! Character Role Discussions

[xpon]

well i did suspect that he is lover!

[Commi-Ninja]

I remember suspecting both James Rye and bluekaitou that round as lovers, but not DT.
Of course, the most awesome part of that round was the Callid-assisted win.  If he hadn't come back and gone after Yurikochan...

[xpon]

i just suspect him because he dont want to reveal his role!

[PhoenixTears]

Of course, the most awesome part of that round was the Callid-assisted win.  If he hadn't come back and gone after Yurikochan...

That was not awesome! >:( *kicks Callid* If he had just actually paid attention to what I'd been saying...!

[Yurikochan]

Of course, the most awesome part of that round was the Callid-assisted win.  If he hadn't come back and gone after Yurikochan...

That was not awesome! >:( *kicks Callid* If he had just actually paid attention to what I'd been saying...!

*clings to AyumiHaibara] as Mitsuhiko of course*

[Kleene Onigiri]

Some suggestions I have after Round 16:

Suicide
people asked what would happen when 1 lover is in prison while the other is killed. Well, the lover should still suicide, I guess. S a clarification would be good :V


Lovers
Town/town and BO/BO lovers have it easier now with lovey-dovey. Still, for town/BO lovers it's almost impossible to win. So, maybe in case there will be BO/Town lovers, giving them a certain task or options how they can win?

Like, both have to get arrested. So, if they manage that without being found out, they win with whoever side wins (since they are together forever in prison <3) Not sure if that's too easy or not? Since, even in prison, they can still give out info to BO and/or town if they want. (or get freed by Eri XD)

Or maybe, that they have to reduce the number of player to 1/3
So, with 20 players, it would be 21/3=7. So, they have to reduce the amount of players that are still in the game (so, aren't dead or arrested) to 7 (including the lovers). A arrested lover would count either as "not in the game" or "still in the game", not sure here yet D:

Or the lovers have to take out certain players(randomly chosen by the GM) + yumi (tho yumi could be one of the chosen players too). This way the lovers have to direct the BO and town into killing those players without being found out.

Or maybe making a mix even. So they have to reduce the alive players to 1/3. But if not all chosen players to take out are dead or arrested, then even with 7 people alive (like in the example), the lovers didn't win yet as long as the chose victims aren't dead/arrested yet.

This is just a suggestion :V But the BO/town lovers have it especially hard. Even harder in a large game.


APTX
I like the 3 APTX rule But when the APTX won't be used up when successful, then it should be clarified if the BO lover of a BO/town pair can aptx his own BO members. I didn't allow it in round 16 D:


Keywords for Investigating
Akonyl suggested to give protect/lovev-dovey/bone break, special investigate/investigate, observe/stake-out, heal/First Aid keywords. So, everyone knows when you want to check if someone used first aid, that you investigate with the keyword: "heal". And stuff :V


Arrest/House search
Arrest and House search aren't the same actions when investigated or with stake-out. So, maybe changing it into the same action? Tho that's just important for the BO probably.


Healers/Protectors
The protectors are now a little more save from APTX with lovey-dovey and Akai's bone break in the game. Tho still not very much.
But Araide and Kobayashi as healers have it harder. So, maybe giving Eri also First Aid? Tho she already has voice of reason and lawsuit, those abilities are used rarely, and also can be just used once per game. And I think Eri is a role that is fitting for First Aid too.
Maybe even giving another completely new healer or protector?


Ran/Kogoro
Ran is a protector that get's injured. Also, in case the BO finds out that the protector is ran and is already injured, they won't kill her during the night, and maybe just APTX her. But in case they APTX her, Kogoro could get sober. Meaning she's totally useless after 1 protection and can't even die :x
So, if Kogoro is in the game and just Ran, which hinders him to get sober, it would be bad for the Kogoro player (and the town overall).
I thought, since Ran is useless after 1 protect, to make it more worth getting injured (since players usually don't feel like protecting with Ran).
So, when Ran get's injured because of protecting someone, then Kogoro will get sober, because well, it's his daughter.
But maybe it should be just for night protection. So, if Ran get's injured during the day, Kogoro won't get sober. Otherwise the Ran player could protect everyone during Day 1 and get injured on purpose, which get's Kogoro sober kinda fast.


Kir/James
I think Kir is good with the special investigate. But people won't use betray so often then (just if they dunno what to investigate).
Not sure if it's necessary, but maybe changing it so, that Kir can use special investigate and Betray every night. Since Kir can get to know the same role in the BO in a row too.
But then, James would be pretty lame with just special investigate, when Kir can use 2 abilities at night. Dunno what to give James then? Special Investigate 2? But on the other hand, Kir has the interrogation result "BO", meaning a higher risk. So, it would be ok to let her be able to do both abilities while james black will keep just special investigate.


Vengeance/Revenge
Vengeance from Akai is still not being used usually, since Akai is rarely being lynched D: He usually get's killed before that by the BO :x
Revenge from the Snipers on the other hand is used a lot. Especially since they can use it when lynched or arrested. Which makes them maybe too powerful now that they have stake-out/observe too. So, maybe reducing revenge on just lynch? Or lynch and normal arrest, without House search. Or the other way round, just injures lynching and house search, and normal arresting won't injure the police officer?

Anyway, I thought Vengeance could be similar to revenge then. That Akai will injure someone when being lynched and will also injure the one that killed him during the night (even snipers). He just won't injure someone when he was APTXed.
For that, the snipers will injure while lynched and successfully house searched. But won't injure an officer when they arrest them in the normal way (normal arrest).


Pisco
Pisco is a high ranking BO member, but has "just" erase. Erase is good, but it's similar to the old snipers. He can just use it when he kills himself or giving it to someone once. Meaning it's situational. Still makes him kind of passive.
I thought, since I changed irish and ditched abduct, maybe Pisco could get abduct then. He did abduct Haibara, so it would still fit :x

But abduct is a crime, so if he uses it automatically on night 1, it makes him an criminal on the 1. night already.
Instead, abduct will still abduct a role that is not in the game. But Pisco can decide when he uses it. And he can also just use it on even numbers of nights. (Night 2, Night 4, Night 6...) And he can abduct multiple times too, which wouldn't be so often since it would be just even numbers.



I think that's all I noticed. I had some ideas for new roles like Nakamori or Yamamura :x But the already in game roles are more important D:

[Akonyl]

Kir/James
I think Kir is good with the special investigate. But people won't use betray so often then (just if they dunno what to investigate).
Not sure if it's necessary, but maybe changing it so, that Kir can use special investigate and Betray every night. Since Kir can get to know the same role in the BO in a row too.
But then, James would be pretty lame with just special investigate, when Kir can use 2 abilities at night. Dunno what to give James then? Special Investigate 2? But on the other hand, Kir has the interrogation result "BO", meaning a higher risk. So, it would be ok to let her be able to do both abilities while james black will keep just special investigate.

I don't particularly think James needs to be given much more tbh, because of the whole "kir=BO" thing like you said. But if he does need to be given more, perhaps he could be told which FBI roles are in the game, rather than just how many?

Vengeance/Revenge
Vengeance from Akai is still not being used usually, since Akai is rarely being lynched D: He usually get's killed before that by the BO :x
Revenge from the Snipers on the other hand is used a lot. Especially since they can use it when lynched or arrested. Which makes them maybe too powerful now that they have stake-out/observe too. So, maybe reducing revenge on just lynch? Or lynch and normal arrest, without House search. Or the other way round, just injures lynching and house search, and normal arresting won't injure the police officer?

Anyway, I thought Vengeance could be similar to revenge then. That Akai will injure someone when being lynched and will also injure the one that killed him during the night (even snipers). He just won't injure someone when he was APTXed.
For that, the snipers will injure while lynched and successfully house searched. But won't injure an officer when they arrest them in the normal way (normal arrest).

I agree with having it injure on house search but not arrest (as if house search is always > arrest, why have arrest on megure/shiratori anyway?)

As for Akai, I'm fine with that, however I would recommend that he has to choose between bone-breaking and vengeance during the night, so that he has to choose between protecting someone else from sniping (bone-breaking) and or hurting whoever attacks him (vengeance), and can't do both.


As for giving Pisco another ability, that seems like it would be good, as he doesn't do a *whole* lot atm. Also, if you just wanted to have him stay on the whole "erase" thing, you could make it so that when he APTXes people, he steals their wills (just like when he kills someone) instead.

[Dus]

I'm fine with Pisco as he is atm, I think Eri's uselessness is more of a problem. There are only a handful of scenarios where she would be useful and it's much harder for her to gather allies.

[Edogawa4869]

*has been thinking for about three minutes* What about some type of subpoena action? Still not sure if it'd work, but I thought I'd just throw it out there...

[PhoenixTears]

I also think Pisco is fine the way he is, at least for right now. The BO is pretty well off on abilities atm, so probably no need to change them unless we drastically change the town.

Eri definitely needs something more in the way of abilities, because basically she's good for two uses during a game, and one of those uses hinges on someone getting arrested. First Aid might be a good addition for her, plus then she's more similar to Kobayashi, too.

The Lovers: the idea of having objectives for them to meet in order to win (rather than having to make sure everyone else dies) seems like a good idea, though I dunno how that would work in the actual game. If they're added in, it should be a set goal for every BO-Town pair/every game, then it's the same across the board and we don't have to worry about the random stuff or wonder what exactly they're trying to do.

[Dus]

I like random stuff. Depending on how hard that aim is to achieve it should be announced though.

Maybe Eri could find out whether someone has committed a crime, without being told what crimes they are?

[Edogawa4869]

I like random stuff. Depending on how hard that aim is to achieve it should be announced though.

Maybe Eri could find out whether someone has committed a crime, without being told what crimes they are?

That is a good idea. There's always a chance to backfire, yet it greatly benefits the Town when it's right. I like it! But how to implement it...

[Akonyl]

*has been thinking for about three minutes* What about some type of subpoena action? Still not sure if it'd work, but I thought I'd just throw it out there...

you can't just say that and not suggest something for it to do

Anyway, I was going to suggest the "find out if people have done a crime but not which one" thing, but I was red messaged because of answering other things

As to how to implement it, just make it another night ability?

As for the lovers, my one suggestion would be "they win if they're both alive at the end at all", however in the case of a BO/town pair, that would just basically give the BO another (really good) member. So, dunno. :V

[Dus]

As to how to implement it, just make it another night ability?

That's treated the same as interrogate, so she can blend in better. Maybe take away one of her two current abilities so she's not overpowered?

[Eve]

Some suggestions I have after Round 16:

Suicide
people asked what would happen when 1 lover is in prison while the other is killed. Well, the lover should still suicide, I guess. S a clarification would be good :V

Just a clarification is good, since it's natural the one in prison would suicide too anyway

Lovers
Town/town and BO/BO lovers have it easier now with lovey-dovey. Still, for town/BO lovers it's almost impossible to win. So, maybe in case there will be BO/Town lovers, giving them a certain task or options how they can win?

I believe it's possible though [s]Try me XD[/s] as long as they're not an "expected pair" and they know how to lie good

Like, both have to get arrested. So, if they manage that without being found out, they win with whoever side wins (since they are together forever in prison <3) Not sure if that's too easy or not? Since, even in prison, they can still give out info to BO and/or town if they want. (or get freed by Eri XD)

No, the reason you have stated as above XD [s]Even death didn't even prevent them from betraying a certain Org.[/s]

Or maybe, that they have to reduce the number of player to 1/3
So, with 20 players, it would be 21/3=7. So, they have to reduce the amount of players that are still in the game (so, aren't dead or arrested) to 7 (including the lovers). A arrested lover would count either as "not in the game" or "still in the game", not sure here yet D:

The thing is, Town numbers are more than BOs, so if I'm Town/BO lover, the town would side with BO and win while BO might have tied the number of players with pol, or tied and won without pol... in other words, that's an additional BO role  who's town

Or the lovers have to take out certain players(randomly chosen by the GM) + yumi (tho yumi could be one of the chosen players too). This way the lovers have to direct the BO and town into killing those players without being found out.

Then what? there are usually ~20-30 players, what happened after a certain player is killed, plus Yumi? If BO still have the chance to win, will they be deemed as the losers? not to mention, that's increasing the chances of lover siding with BO, thus increasing a BO player

Or maybe making a mix even. So they have to reduce the alive players to 1/3. But if not all chosen players to take out are dead or arrested, then even with 7 people alive (like in the example), the lovers didn't win yet as long as the chose victims aren't dead/arrested yet.

Maybe..... I'm leaning toward this, XD

This is just a suggestion :V But the BO/town lovers have it especially hard. Even harder in a large game.

You'd think I still think town/bo has a chance as long as they're active enough, one of them can be in a town alliance with their role proven and everything , the important thing is how the Bo lover manage the BO side so BO believes that they don't have a lover and is the spy themselves

APTX
I like the 3 APTX rule But when the APTX won't be used up when successful, then it should be clarified if the BO lover of a BO/town pair can aptx his own BO members. I didn't allow it in round 16 D:

This shouldn't be allowed I can't believe Eric wanted to do this...

Keywords for Investigating
Akonyl suggested to give protect/lovev-dovey/bone break, special investigate/investigate, observe/stake-out, heal/First Aid keywords. So, everyone knows when you want to check if someone used first aid, that you investigate with the keyword: "heal". And stuff :V

Hmmm.... I think this suggestion is acceptable

Arrest/House search
Arrest and House search aren't the same actions when investigated or with stake-out. So, maybe changing it into the same action? Tho that's just important for the BO probably.

Well... since I didn't really read the rules on this, can you elaborate XD?

Healers/Protectors
The protectors are now a little more save from APTX with lovey-dovey and Akai's bone break in the game. Tho still not very much.
But Araide and Kobayashi as healers have it harder. So, maybe giving Eri also First Aid? Tho she already has voice of reason and lawsuit, those abilities are used rarely, and also can be just used once per game. And I think Eri is a role that is fitting for First Aid too.
Maybe even giving another completely new healer or protector?

No, we have an awesome amount of healers/protectors, and if they're patient enough, they can really hit the jackpot while waiting won't kill them at all I think Eri can obtain maybe a "Judgment" ability, something that'll allow her to maybe detect BS XD I don't know, but I sure don't want another healers XD

Ran/Kogoro
Ran is a protector that get's injured. Also, in case the BO finds out that the protector is ran and is already injured, they won't kill her during the night, and maybe just APTX her. But in case they APTX her, Kogoro could get sober. Meaning she's totally useless after 1 protection and can't even die :x
So, if Kogoro is in the game and just Ran, which hinders him to get sober, it would be bad for the Kogoro player (and the town overall).
I thought, since Ran is useless after 1 protect, to make it more worth getting injured (since players usually don't feel like protecting with Ran).
So, when Ran get's injured because of protecting someone, then Kogoro will get sober, because well, it's his daughter.
But maybe it should be just for night protection. So, if Ran get's injured during the day, Kogoro won't get sober. Otherwise the Ran player could protect everyone during Day 1 and get injured on purpose, which get's Kogoro sober kinda fast.

Hmmmm.... I think you do have a point but then we have to balance it out with BO, too, as having Kogoro used to be a disadvatage that balanced out the protector R*n's advantage, if Ran is injured, Kogoro sobered, then maybe Irish/Vermouth will be affected somehow, too

Kir/James
I think Kir is good with the special investigate. But people won't use betray so often then (just if they dunno what to investigate).
Not sure if it's necessary, but maybe changing it so, that Kir can use special investigate and Betray every night. Since Kir can get to know the same role in the BO in a row too.
But then, James would be pretty lame with just special investigate, when Kir can use 2 abilities at night. Dunno what to give James then? Special Investigate 2? But on the other hand, Kir has the interrogation result "BO", meaning a higher risk. So, it would be ok to let her be able to do both abilities while james black will keep just special investigate.

Well, if people used it often enough, they'll gain more from it I don't understand why someone wants to special investigate when they have no lead, and taking a chance with ONE investigate is just... weird while betray on the other hand can really help them.... If we increase Kir, we'd have to increase James, then increase BO's abilities, seeing as Kir can know who will be doing what AND investigate a certain player in the same night yet it'll be useless all the like if the player have no alliance and randomly doing random things

Vengeance/Revenge
Vengeance from Akai is still not being used usually, since Akai is rarely being lynched D: He usually get's killed before that by the BO :x
Revenge from the Snipers on the other hand is used a lot. Especially since they can use it when lynched or arrested. Which makes them maybe too powerful now that they have stake-out/observe too. So, maybe reducing revenge on just lynch? Or lynch and normal arrest, without House search. Or the other way round, just injures lynching and house search, and normal arresting won't injure the police officer?

Someone suggested something about Akai getting to kill one he suspected the most at night for a replacement? I think that's idea is acceptable enough

Anyway, I thought Vengeance could be similar to revenge then. That Akai will injure someone when being lynched and will also injure the one that killed him during the night (even snipers). He just won't injure someone when he was APTXed.
For that, the snipers will injure while lynched and successfully house searched. But won't injure an officer when they arrest them in the normal way (normal arrest).

hmmm.... somehow, I still think it's okay for snipers to injure the pol when being arrested, but maybe injured not severely enough for them to lose all their abilities, but maybe one investigation remains

Pisco
Pisco is a high ranking BO member, but has "just" erase. Erase is good, but it's similar to the old snipers. He can just use it when he kills himself or giving it to someone once. Meaning it's situational. Still makes him kind of passive.
I thought, since I changed irish and ditched abduct, maybe Pisco could get abduct then. He did abduct Haibara, so it would still fit :x

yes, I think I agree with this one

But abduct is a crime, so if he uses it automatically on night 1, it makes him an criminal on the 1. night already.
Instead, abduct will still abduct a role that is not in the game. But Pisco can decide when he uses it. And he can also just use it on even numbers of nights. (Night 2, Night 4, Night 6...) And he can abduct multiple times too, which wouldn't be so often since it would be just even numbers.

Yes, this , too, I agree with

I think that's all I noticed. I had some ideas for new roles like Nakamori or Yamamura :x But the already in game roles are more important D:

Yeah, let's hold off on them