What is bothering me for a long time...

[texascoffeegirl]

It's the first and probably last time, I open a thread. I am a fan of Detective Conan for over a decade now. Just a couple months ago, when we moved to our new home, I found my old DC mangas. Out of boredom and curiosity, I started reading the first Volumes again, caught the old “who is the big bossâ€

[nanilola]

Don't worry about the length.  It's a very interesting post. 
Of course, you're probably not the first one to suspect Yoko since she's a recurring character, who's somehow close with the the Mouris (well, Kogoro anyway).
How different the bases of your theory are with those of the others? I've no idea because I try to avoid reading stuff like this outside of DCTP forums.

Your points with the ashtray - I have never even noticed `til now, granted that I've watched the anime more than I've read the manga. (Nothing rushes a person to focus on the artwork details of the manga while his eyes have to be observant enough to beat the video FPS of the anime. I hope I get the resources to print all the volumes/chapters scanlated up to now so that I can start reading or re-reading everything. I hate reading from a monitor whether online or offline. Feels like there's a barrier. Besides, nothing beats the tactile sensation of reading what's on hand.)

Anyway, thanks.  Let's wait for the experts to make good critiques.

[Abs.]

I agree with all you said.  I had just picked up and started reading the "Devil of the TV Station" case recently and was immediately struck (again) with pretty much everything you said - except for the depth of your observations about the first Okino Yoko case.  

I believe that cements it.

Got something to add: Agasa mentioned there was an unidentified famous Japanese actress at "Sharon Vineyard's" funeral.  I'd assumed it was Yukiko, but........

Edited again to add: I WANT CHEKHOV IN THIS THREAD AND I WANT HER NOW!

[scineram]

Awesome thread.

Chap. 591 page 3, Yoko Okino doesn't trigger Ai's BO sense.

But why is this a conformation? Isn't that counter evidence?

[nanilola]

Got something to add: Agasa mentioned there was an unidentified famous Japanese actress at "Sharon Vineyard's" funeral.  I'd assumed it was Yukiko, but........

Yeah, because of the big end curls of that unidentified actress' hair, right?
Who wouldn't think it was the retired Yukiko? Afterall, she and Sharon were friends.
Okino Yoko is still an actress so she changes hairstyles frequently.
I'm just not sure about the timeline. Do you think Yoko's already famous back then to be noted even in America?

Edited again to add: I WANT CHEKHOV IN THIS THREAD AND I WANT HER NOW!

My thoughts, exactly. CHEKHOV = EXPERT (on elaborating)  ;D

Awesome thread.

Chap. 591 page 3, Yoko Okino doesn't trigger Ai's BO sense.

But why is this a conformation? Isn't that counter evidence?

I think it's been said somewhere that the BO boss' identity is someone that would surprise Haibara. (an Aoyama interview or something)
One probably has to be found high up in the BO command chain to meet the boss.

[mangaluva]

Just noticed this thread, then reread the first Yoko arc... IT'S ALL TRUE. Why DOES Yoko have all of that stuff for smokers? There's a lot of intersting points there, especially your point that yes, Aoyama HAD intended for DC only to last a few volumes. So he probably would have put something major in the early chapters... This requires some thought but it's a highly interesting theory...

[Kor]

it also fits the "Vermouth is that person's favorite" for instance Sharon could be Yoko's idol. But Yoko is really young and if her dead "boyfriend" knew her when she was younger, then it creates some holes.
The biggest one is...why is Gin so faithful to Yoko? *imagines Gin singing Yoko's songs in his car in a stupid way* Gin is her biggest fan as it seems 

[ppan91]

i feel like i'm reading a BIG BIG BIG spoiler... but really, WOW, i never noticed the things you listed

[mangaluva]

it also fits the "Vermouth is that person's favorite" for instance Sharon could be Yoko's idol. But Yoko is really young and if her dead "boyfriend" knew her when she was younger, then it creates some holes.

ATPX 4869. She's been through high school a buncha times 

The biggest one is...why is Gin so faithful to Yoko? *imagines Gin singing Yoko's songs in his car in a stupid way* Gin is her biggest fan as it seems 

I bet the reason he grows his hair long is so that he can curl it like hers 

[TheBlind]

This is really good. You caught every small detail and created a well thought out post at two in the morning.
I'm not Chekhov, so if there is a problem with the evidence I can't see it, but what bothers me is the structure doesn't fit. With all the evidence you provided, I don't doubt that Yoko could of been a prime candidate for the Boss during the early stages of the series but things seem too complicated for her to fit as the Boss now.

The biggest problem would be Yoko's introduction. She came to Kogoro because she felt someone was stalking her and entering into her house but as "The Boss", no one would be able to get within 20 miles of her house without her knowing about it, let alone enter it. So let's say it was all a rouse to get Kogoro's aid..but for what? Yoko visited Kogoro three days after Shinichi's encounter with Gin and Vodka. The B.O. didn't send out a search team(with Shiho as the lead investigator) until much later, so what evidence would Yoko have to suspect anything foul at the agency?
Gin wouldn't of informed "The Boss" because he rarely remembers who he kills and I don't see Vodka going over Gin's head for something so trivial and "The Boss" acting on it on such short notice.

Problem No.2 would be the introduction of Kir to Kogoro.
The only two logical advantages Yoko would gain from such a move would be:
A)Trail Conan and confirm his identity,something she could of done easily another way.
B)Knowing that Conan is Shinichi, use that to test Kir's loyalty.

A isn't very likely because she could of used a better method with her Yoko persona if she was indeed "The Boss"(getting tired of doing that..) while B seems like the likely reason but the series never acted upon it. Kir is still part of the B.O. with only Gin being trigger happy to kill her. If Yoko was ..."The Boss", she would have all the evidence to kill Kir, especially after she made use of the only thing a traitor would serve, getting close to the FBI/CIA and taking a good piece of them down. They already got Akai and the FBI no longer believes in Kir, why keep her around if scenario B was the case?

Like I said, everything you stated seems like it's perfect to prove that Yoko was the guy in a short run but now that the series has gone so long, things have become more complicated.(Yeah..I think even Gosho doesn't know who the boss is)

[mangaluva]

Yeah..I think even Gosho doesn't know who the boss is

So THAT'S why it's running for so long... he's stalling for time XD

[kholoudsafir]

[quote="texascoffeegirl"]


I base my upcoming gibberish only on the mangas and the infamous interview Aoyama's in 2006 http://www.animey.net/specials/42 , where Aoyama said something that made me thinking. No, not the whole “Ai will be surprised'-whatever thing.
At some point, Aoyama was asked about the success of Detective Conan and whether he expected DC to last so many years.
No, of course, he didn't. How could he? Indeed, he thought DC will end after a couple of months or Volumes. So far, nothing unusual, but while reading the first chapters of DC, I realized: when those chapters were published, Aoyama had thought the story to end soon. Why is it important? Because that means Aoyama most likely dropped some important hints pointing to the BO very early. Actually, he dropped maybe 'one hint' within the first six chapters.

(BTW, reading all 700something chapters in a row, I have the impression, that maybe a year or a little bit more has passed in the story line. I know, sounds unbelievable, but that is the impression you get if you read everything in a row and not in a decade...)

We can assume, that Aoyama is a professional (lol, it's really late), meaning he had a rough story outline from the very beginning. The concept of Conan, Kogoro, the BO, them being an international organization leading at some point to the US. It helps that Shinichi's parents lived in the US and that being mentioned right away in the first chapter. It opened the international doors early. And before I go back to that maybe'hint', let me emphasize one of Aoyama's drawing styles: smoking. Certain characters or character-types smoke in the story. The cool (like Akai, Matsuda and some suspects) and the dangerous (like Akai and most of the BO, some other murderers). Well, and Kogoro. But he is another story. I think, we have seen pretty much all BO members smoking and drinking alcohol. In the DC universe, the purely innocent don't smoke and drink.

Which brings me to my key figure, my Irene Adler, so to say: Yoko Okino.

Yeah, keep laughing but keep on reading, I bet you will be a bit surprised.

It starts in chapter 6 Vol. 1, three days after the BO 'killed' Kudo Shinichi. Conan is eager to do something, but is advised by Prof. Agasa to keep his head down. Agasa: “If they find out, your body never showed up, they'll come looking for you. Just wait until then. You mustn't get impatient and make the first move.â€

[mangaluva]

the second point, I do realise that DC manga and anime have some differences (never read the Manga, just this what I have heard  from the ones who did), but would the anime miss something important?

Bomb on a train case. Miyano Akemi. Need I say more? The anime created huge plotholes in the early episodes, I wouldn't be surprised at them missing small details.

[texascoffeegirl]

Well, I'm glad I found some people who think the first Yoko Okino Arc is as suspicious as I do :-). It really seems to point to our little Miss actress being a BO-member, however there might be another possibility too, which is, I admit extremely far fetched and solely based on a few biography datas and a single snapshot.

The following words are just spiderwebs of my brain which is on vacation right now and likes to come up with some funny ideas so don't take me too serious on that one ;-)))

First of all, I don't think, Yoko Okino is the Boss :-), though I start to believe, she is somebody else than she pretends to be.

There is a really far fetched possibility of an Okino-Akai connection.

Akai had a thing for Akemi, a young, beautiful, innocent and yet strong woman. Ai Haibara stated that there are lots of similarities between her older sister Akemi and Ran, not just the outward appearance but the character. In Vol. 37, chapt. 7, Ran and Conan met Shuichi Akai (Conan didn't know at this point who Akai was, but Ran tells him after their little encounter she thinks he might be an FBI agent). At this time, Akai and Jodie had an eye on the Mouri agency. They kept their distance to the Mouris, the observations were happening to be undercover. Yet, Akai talks to Ran, not denying they have met before. The conversation was like this:   

“You are crying again.â€

[mangaluva]

Well, lets go a step further. When Akai arrived in Japan in Vol. 32 chap. XX and the following, he says he wants to make his girlfriend who dumped him cry (with tears of blood). Yeah I know, the infamous quote, that was taking apart by fans thousands of times.

That 'girlfriend' , he is talking about, is most likely not Akemi – who is 1. dead for a year now and 2. they ended the contact in the first place to not harm her. The 'girlfriend' is somebody else than Akemi.  In Vol. 29 chap. 5 page 18, after the bus-hijacking-case, Akai states that their target didn't show up, although Vermouth was right in front of them. Vermouth aka Araide was supposed to meet somebody in the bus who didn't show up because of the hijack. Who is that other person, Akai and Jodie were waiting for? Is it Gin or the 'girlfriend', Akai mentioned to James Black? I mean, they (Akai and Jodie) expected the target to show up, that means it rules Sherry as the target completely out, cause at this time, they had no idea where Sherry is. Akai most likely got a tip, that the target will show up there. And what about chap. 677, where Jodie has a flashback of Akai telling her that he loves two woman at the same time. Well, many people assume, that the other woman is Jodie, since she seems to have some feelings for Akai too, but than again that other woman could be the so said 'girlfriend', who dumped him.

Akai came from the US to look for this 'girlfriend', or so he stated. We can assume, that this 'girlfriend' (which can be just a metaphor for his female enemy?) was at some point in the US and than took off to Japan, where Akai followed her later.

This line loses a lot in english... As I understand, the word used is "koibito", which when written one way means "most beloved one" and written another means "most hated enemy". It translates really badly, but depending on the reading of it in english he wants to make an ex-girlfriend pay for dumping him... or he wants to make his greatest enemy pay for escaping him. Basically, he's talking about Gin (when he shoots Gin below the eye he thinks of him as "Koibito"). Like I said, the pun utterly dies in english, so it's easy to miss without it being explained (I think I saw it explained in footnotes of fansubs of the manga). So I doubt that there's a Yoko-Akai connection; i'm more in favour of the Yoko-Vermouth connection.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks Yoko looked a little like Eri with glasses on?