Shinichi+Ran

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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby KaitoGirl » July 24th, 2010, 2:59 pm

I'm agreed with what you said.

Still, ShinxRan are my favourite couple and still I think that Ran can understand Shinichi better than Ai does, besides Ran has something special that makes Shinichi love her so much ^^ she doesn't have fear to show her feelings and she since the first moment, do or try to do her best to help people, not like Haibara who thought that it was idiotic save the others on the 17 Million Hostages Case. I'm COMPLETELY SURE that Ran would think different in the first instant
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Detective Prince » July 24th, 2010, 4:29 pm

KaitoGirl95 wrote:I'm agreed with what you said.

Still, ShinxRan are my favourite couple and still I think that Ran can understand Shinichi better than Ai does, besides Ran has something special that makes Shinichi love her so much ^^ she doesn't have fear to show her feelings and she since the first moment, do or try to do her best to help people, not like Haibara who thought that it was idiotic save the others on the 17 Million Hostages Case. I'm COMPLETELY SURE that Ran would think different in the first instant
Eh. Ai definetly understands him the most. They got that connection.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby arielrachel0527 » July 24th, 2010, 4:42 pm

Dus wrote:I'll just repost my post from page 199 which got overlookeb because of the 200th-page celebrations. Which is said, because it contains THE counter argument for all these childhood friends love stories. Also, it took me ages to write and research.
Schillok wrote:I don't see Shiho sharing the interests in cases. Usually he hardly does anything herself to solve them, only if the Detective Boys urge her to join. Quite the contrary, she usually asks Conan for the solution instead of trying to figure it out herself. Neither is she interested in Shinichis/Conans thrid hobby: Detective stories/novels.
The only interest they share is football. And even there she is favoring the opposite team.  ::)
At this point I would usually make the reference to Ayumi who shares all three of his interests. But... I bet everyone knows that already.  ;D
She's is the only one (apart from Heiji) who ever server as Conan's assistant. The most notable example for this is
Movie 11 (if you consider the movies canon) or
Spoiler:
during the Kirin's Horn arc she basically replaced him.

She doesn't seem to share his interest in crime fiction, that's true. Rand does. Ayumi may also like football but cannot really help him to solve his cases. I don't think she's a fan of crime fiction either.

I haven’t seen the Kirin’s Horn arc so I can’t say anything.

How can something be run-of-the-mill and extremely predictable and at the same time unrealistic? Doesn't the fact that it is very common and easy to predict indicate that it is very realistic?

It's unrealistic for two reasons:
A) Most of Gosho's pairings work the same way
B) There's a thing called the Westermarck Effect which says that people who have known each other since at least one of them was still a child, they're highly unlikely to be attracted to each other sexually

True, but highly unlikely still means a POSSIBILITY.

Exactly my thought. Opposites may attract in magnetism, but not in relationships. Of course there is some room for tolerance, but the more similar a couple is, the better they will get along.

Not necessarily.Complementary relationships are very common. Personally, I prefer that kind. And Conan and Ai definitely complement each other


Well, that’s just personal preference. And there’s nothing wrong with that if you prefer AiCon’s complementary relationship.

No... whenever I hear this argument I immediately think about the 17 Million Hostages Case.
Haibara: "After all losing your life for the sake of total strangers is complete idiocy." I mean... it can't be shown any more obviously that they do not think the same way.  

I never said they think the same way. I said they understand how the other party thinks. Even if she thinks he's doing something idiotic here, she still understands his motivation


The same thing applies to Ran, not just Haibara. Even though Ran thinks of Shinichi as a detective freak, she still respects his interests.

ziraulo wrote:I don't think so. ShinRan has practically redefined what "star-crossed lovers" mean to me. Before, I would think of Romeo and Juliet's balcony scene, but now I think of that scene in OP 27 where they were talking to each other on the phone with just a wall separating them. ;D Also, I like the childhood friend clichee, but I do think Gosho overused it. Seriously, I'm younger than most of the DC characters and I barely remember my childhood!
They do have some nice romantic scenes, but mostly its just too Pilcheresque.


Again, personal preference!!


Maybe, but then again, ALL kids are taught morals and ethics. Knowing that Ran's parents are a lawyer/police officer tandem (well, back when they weren't separated, at least), she would have learned those early on, even without Shinichi's help.
Possible. We cannot say for sure, but I still think she mostly just adopted Shinichi's morals and beliefs.

True, we cannot say it for sure, but you made it sound like Ran is merely a copycat that copies Shinichi’s beliefs.

It sure was hard to make this worked!!
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Dus » July 24th, 2010, 4:46 pm

Could you clean up your tags? I find it extremely difficult to read.
Well, highly unlikely means there's still a chance.

Basically, if you ARE attracted to them, you would be a pedophile. (at least to a degree)These exist, so yes there IS a chance. But it is highly unlikely and extremely disturbing that there are so many people with a pedophilious streak in Gosho's world. So not only does Gosho have a strange ability to think up the most elaborate murder plans, he also likes little children. For God's sake, lock that man up already!
(There is nothing wrong with being a pedophile. It's not their fault they're attracted to children, they're just incredibly unfortunate. Basically they can only satisfy their need by rape and violation.)
I agree with you that much of that is personal preference. And you have every right to have different views from me.
Still, I think Ai is more capable of understanding Shinichi than Ran. But it's hard to say really and if you think differently that's cool with me.
I don't think, however, that you can honestly think that Ran developped her morals and beliefs COMPLETELY indepently from Shinichi.

Edit: Cheers for cleaning up the code. I know how annoying that can be when you have that many quotes. I'm just gonna comment on a few things I hadn't noticed previously/you edited:
The same thing applies to Ran, not just Haibara. Even though Ran thinks of Shinichi as a detective freak, she still respects his interests.
Still, she cannot partake in his detective work. And I don't think she's as attracted to Shinichi solving his cases as Kazuha is with Heiji. Once he is his 17-year old self again, she might actually object to his detective work because it is officially the reason he had been away from her for such a long time.
True, we cannot say it for sure, but you made it sound like Ran is merely a copycat that copies Shinichi’s beliefs.

There's nothing wrong in copying his beliefs as they're fundamentally good ideas. Yet I would eventually tire (after being flattered) by someone who agrees with me on almost anything.
If we take the friendship case into consideration, one might say that Ran is capable of independent thinking and thus an intelligent argument which makes it less likely that Shinichi will get bored of her. There just aren't enough ShinRan moments to be sure.
Last edited by Dus on July 24th, 2010, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby arielrachel0527 » July 24th, 2010, 4:54 pm

Dus wrote:Could you clean up your tags? I find it extremely difficult to read.
Well, highly unlikely means there's still a chance.

Basically, if you ARE attracted to them, you would be a pedophile. (at least to a degree)These exist, so yes there IS a chance. But it is highly unlikely and extremely disturbing that there are so many people with a pedophilious streak in Gosho's world. So not has he a strange ability to think up the most elaborate murder plans, he also likes little children. For God's sake, lock that man up already!
(There is nothing wrong with being a pedophile. It's not their fault they're attracted to children, they're just incredibly unfortunate. Basically they can only satisfy their need by rape and violation.)
I agree with you that much of that is personal preference. And you have every right to have different views from me.
Still, I think Ai is more capable of understanding Shinichi than Ran. But it's hard to say really and if you think differently that's cool with me.
I don't think, however, that you can honestly think that Ran developped her morals and beliefs COMPLETELY indepently from Shinichi.


Sorry about the tags. It was kind of difficult for me to get it work so I just gave up. I'm not a really patient person XD

And which person do you want to lock up? I don't get that.
I don't think, however, that you can honestly think that Ran developped her morals and beliefs COMPLETELY indepently from Shinichi.


Oh, I don't think Ran developed her every single moral and belief independently from Shinichi. But she definitely deserves some credits for coming up some of her own beliefs. I just don't agree that her EVERY SINGLE belief is adopted from Shinichi.
Last edited by arielrachel0527 on July 24th, 2010, 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Detective Prince » July 24th, 2010, 4:56 pm

Personally I think its Ran's Niceness + Shinichi's morals= Rans beliefs. I think she has a more nice and innocent version of Shinichi's
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Kor » July 24th, 2010, 4:58 pm

Dus wrote:Basically, if you ARE attracted to them, you would be a pedophile. (at least to a degree)These exist, so yes there IS a chance. But it is highly unlikely and extremely disturbing that there are so many people with a pedophilious streak in Gosho's world. So not has he a strange ability to think up the most elaborate murder plans, he also likes little children. For God's sake, lock that man up already!


I'm not sure I understood correctly what you wrote here.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Dus » July 24th, 2010, 5:11 pm

I cleaned up the grammatical error in the passage about Gosho having the potential to be both a homicidal maniac and a pederast. Hope it's clearer now.
I completely agree with DetectivePrince about Ran's belief. That's pretty much sums it up.
@Kor: If it's the first part you're unsure about
If most people are not attracted to people they have known when these people were underage, then this means if childhood friends are attracted to each other then this is similiar to adults being attracted to little kids.  It's a sexual deviation and not a pretty one.

Hope I could clear things up.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby arielrachel0527 » July 24th, 2010, 5:45 pm

Dus wrote:I cleaned up the grammatical error in the passage about Gosho having the potential to be both a homicidal maniac and a pederast. Hope it's clearer now.
I completely agree with DetectivePrince about Ran's belief. That's pretty much sums it up.
@Kor: If it's the first part you're unsure about
If most people are not attracted to people they have known when these people were underage, then this means if childhood friends are attracted to each other then this is similiar to adults being attracted to little kids.  It's a sexual deviation and not a pretty one.

Hope I could clear things up.


@Dus: Ummm...if I understand your previous description about the Westermarck Effect, can I ignore your explanation here? This explanation kind of confuses me and I thought I had grapsed what you're trying to say.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Dus » July 24th, 2010, 5:57 pm

Well it's actually a bit seperate from the Westermarck effect, an addition, an interpretation. It's basically what that effect implies. You are free to choose to ignore that.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Kor » July 24th, 2010, 6:13 pm

Dus wrote:@Kor: If it's the first part you're unsure about
If most people are not attracted to people they have known when these people were underage, then this means if childhood friends are attracted to each other then this is similiar to adults being attracted to little kids.  It's a sexual deviation and not a pretty one.


oh ok. That makes kinda sense. However as much as it may apply to real life, I don't think such interpretation should be applied for fiction aimed at kids/young audience. I mean, the same kind of relationships are also present in books such as Harry Potter. We can't really label authors as pedophiles just because there are children in the story (unless I still misunderstood what you were saying, in which case I apologize)
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Dus » July 24th, 2010, 7:03 pm

Well the protagonists of Harry Potter meet when they're already teenagers, so slight difference there.

What I'm basically getting at is this:
I'm deeply disturbed by the portrayal of sexual attraction in Manga in general. Many manga deliberately include Lolicon/Shotacon elements and even portray little girls as objects of sexual desire. (On the other hand, homosexuality is frowned upon. Worst - double-standard - ever.)
Just goes to show that the Japanese are now by far the most perverted country in the world.
It used to be us Germans;_;(The english even borrowed our word for masturbation)

Also, I don't really think Gosho goes around killing people and raping kids, it's called satire. (we should definitely keep an eye on him, though)
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby arielrachel0527 » July 24th, 2010, 7:24 pm

Dus wrote:
Also, I don't really think Gosho goes around killing people and raping kids, it's called satire. (we should definitely keep an eye on him, though)


Haha lol.

New topic, unless someone wants to continue the topic of Westermarck effect, you're more than welcome too:

What is the saddest ShinRan moment?

For me, it would be the part where Agasa asked Conan/Shinichi why he didn't tell Ran's feelings after he ate her chocolate, and Conan said something like, "She would want to see me…If I told her how I felt, she’d just miss me even more…After all, I’m a guy who’s been breaking her heart by making her wait an eternity. Even though I’m always by her side…I don’t want to see her cry anymore…Even if it means I no longer have a place in her heart". Conan's expression was so sad that it makes me sad. :(
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Dus » July 24th, 2010, 7:28 pm

That was probably the best scene and one of the rare scenes where Shinichi dares to show his feelings. It shows that ShinRan can be more than the usual kitsch if Gosho wants to.
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Re: Shinichi+Ran

Postby Detective Prince » July 24th, 2010, 7:38 pm

Dus wrote:That was probably the best scene and one of the rare scenes where Shinichi dares to show his feelings. It shows that ShinRan can be more than the usual kitsch if Gosho wants to.
I doubt that

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