Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Well vaibhavgupte :
Give me more time and I will review these cases again and let you know what I found out when I finished I advise you to do the same because I am sure that you will know the hints better than me . The cases are (906 907 908 - clenched scissors case - soul detective case and song named asaca case ) .

the case of chapters 906 907 908 in which haibara mentioned the three rum descriptions and three suspects with these characteristics appeared , and it is also surprising that a victim committed suicide , as happened in the Asaka song case .
Your words make sense that Kohji may have committed suicide , but I think the hint from Goshu from that is he wants to point out that Rum is not one of the three not to refer that Kohji has committed suicide . In the case also 906 907 908 the womenly man took money from the crime scene , this may be a hint that Wakasa took something from the crime scene and this actually shows to us that she took the shogi piece .

For Kuroda , we have seen for ourselves that Kuroda is trying to solve the mystery of the dying message that Haneda Koji left , so Kuroda thinks it refers to Wakasa Rumi not Karasuma , so if he was Rum , he was not trying to do such a thing , and there is no point in that to look at the case that occurred 17 years ago and Rum made some mistakes in it . My point is that he still remembers that case and tries to solve it because he may be Haneda Koji's father or brother as at the end of the Asaka song case , Bourbon told the man who looks like Kuroda : " it seems that you were the closer friend of the victim " so it could be a hint that Kuroda is from Kohji's family . There is a similarity between Kuroda and Kohji but Kuroda has white hair And his chin might just be disguised .

We didn't hear about Kir in Arc Vermouth , we also did not know anything about Bourbon in Arc Kir and we did not hear about Rum in Arc Bourbon , do you not find that strange that we hear more than one time about the Boss Karasuma and we are still in Arc RUM , the logical explanation as I told you is that Chikara is karasuma and is RUM .
Rearrange the letters in the word chikara katsumata without deleting any of the letters , you will get Chikatta Karasuma and I don't think it is a coincidence . ِNo one looked like Karasuma when he was in his fifties other than Chikara . Also the two word " Chikara Katsumata " means the power is regained again .
In the second appearance of Chikara Katsumata , at the beginning of the episode a picture of the zombies was shown, hinting that Karasuma was supposedly dead but still alive . Also the case of the arc was mentioned by Haibara in that second appearance .

Haibara said that Rum is a man who has an artificial eye , the only man I know in this Arc with artificial eye is Chikara , Iam still not sure about Iori Muga's eyes , Wakita and Kuroda do not have artificial eyes , Wakasa is woman not man .

Iam with you that Wakasa is the love of Kohji and that she is often Asaka .
It was Wakasa Rumi who left the message referring to Karasuma , not Haneda Kohji , Iam sure of this point .
I will be reviewing the four cases I told you about this week and if i notice anything new I will tell you about it and I hope you do the same thing as well .
If you want more , you can review any case in which Haneda Koji was mentioned by any character as you'll find hints about something that might be helpful in understanding what happened 17 years ago . But the four cases are the most important of them at all time in this Arc .
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
June 20th, 2020, 11:20 pm
Well vaibhavgupte :
Give me more time and I will review these cases again and let you know what I found out when I finished I advise you to do the same because I am sure that you will know the hints better than me . The cases are (906 907 908 - clenched scissors case - soul detective case and song named asaca case ) .

the case of chapters 906 907 908 in which haibara mentioned the three rum descriptions and three suspects with these characteristics appeared , and it is also surprising that a victim committed suicide , as happened in the Asaka song case .
Your words make sense that Kohji may have committed suicide , but I think the hint from Goshu from that is he wants to point out that Rum is not one of the three not to refer that Kohji has committed suicide . In the case also 906 907 908 the womenly man took money from the crime scene , this may be a hint that Wakasa took something from the crime scene and this actually shows to us that she took the shogi piece .

For Kuroda , we have seen for ourselves that Kuroda is trying to solve the mystery of the dying message that Haneda Koji left , so Kuroda thinks it refers to Wakasa Rumi not Karasuma , so if he was Rum , he was not trying to do such a thing , and there is no point in that to look at the case that occurred 17 years ago and Rum made some mistakes in it . My point is that he still remembers that case and tries to solve it because he may be Haneda Koji's father or brother as at the end of the Asaka song case , Bourbon told the man who looks like Kuroda : " it seems that you were the closer friend of the victim " so it could be a hint that Kuroda is from Kohji's family . There is a similarity between Kuroda and Kohji but Kuroda has white hair And his chin might just be disguised .

We didn't hear about Kir in Arc Vermouth , we also did not know anything about Bourbon in Arc Kir and we did not hear about Rum in Arc Bourbon , do you not find that strange that we hear more than one time about the Boss Karasuma and we are still in Arc RUM , the logical explanation as I told you is that Chikara is karasuma and is RUM .
Rearrange the letters in the word chikara katsumata without deleting any of the letters , you will get Chikatta Karasuma and I don't think it is a coincidence . ِNo one looked like Karasuma when he was in his fifties other than Chikara . Also the two word " Chikara Katsumata " means the power is regained again .
In the second appearance of Chikara Katsumata , at the beginning of the episode a picture of the zombies was shown, hinting that Karasuma was supposedly dead but still alive . Also the case of the arc was mentioned by Haibara in that second appearance .

Haibara said that Rum is a man who has an artificial eye , the only man I know in this Arc with artificial eye is Chikara , Iam still not sure about Iori Muga's eyes , Wakita and Kuroda do not have artificial eyes , Wakasa is woman not man .

Iam with you that Wakasa is the love of Kohji and that she is often Asaka .
It was Wakasa Rumi who left the message referring to Karasuma , not Haneda Kohji , Iam sure of this point .
I will be reviewing the four cases I told you about this week and if i notice anything new I will tell you about it and I hope you do the same thing as well .
If you want more , you can review any case in which Haneda Koji was mentioned by any character as you'll find hints about something that might be helpful in understanding what happened 17 years ago . But the four cases are the most important of them at all time in this Arc .
Yes I will also review these cases in detail this week.

But before you review these cases I just wanted to bring
your attention on an important point regarding
kohji haneda which is not there in these 4 cases.
gosho mentioned in gosho talk day that there was
a red herring in volume18 ( haibara introduction case)
that nobody noticed.

Earlier I thought that this red herring is that haibara's
parents are alive. but in other gosho talk day gosho
clearly stated that miyanos are dead. so this possibility
is ruled out.

What I now believe is that this red herring is the presence
of kohji haneda name in aptx victim list whereas in reality
he wasnt given aptx. there is hardly any scope
of any other red herring in volume 18.( if there you can tell.)
so this is probably that red herring.

The fact that he comitted suicide
and rumi camoflaged that suicide
as murder comitted by herself.
she did so by putting his name in aptx victim list
when in reality he wasnt given aptx.
This is in sync with the hint in song named asaca
case that rumi lookalike suspect camoflaged
the kohji lookalike victim's suicide
as murder comitted by her.

This volume 18 red herring hint is also very impoortant
to solve rum arc mystery along with these 4 cases.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

ِAs you said vaibhavgupte , Koji may have committed suicide but Goshu’s hints sometimes have a meaning other than the apparent meaning as I think this is the only way that Goshu wants to point out that Rum is not one of the three .

Your words may actually make sense because I still don't know why Wakasa described Haneda Koji as a foolish guy , was it because he committed suicide or because he saw something he shouldn't see or because he threatened Chikara that he would expose him because he cheated on playing . ??? ??? ???

As for the red herring that Goshu says, there is arabic youtuber has made a pretty convincing conclusion that Yuzuki Fukui is Akemi Miyano and Bourbon who faked her death .
Goshu When he answered the question Is Akimi alive or dead ? Goshu showed a picture of Gin in Red shirts case when he was talking to Kir about Akai , Gin told her if he was alive I will kill him myself .
So this YouTuber assumed that Akimi was still alive like Akai and her death was also faked by Bourbon , This reason explains why Bourbon was the first to doubt about Akai's death , this is because Bourbon had previously made a plan to fake Akemi's death , and so Bourbon assumed that Conan and Akai did the same .
Image
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 10:04 pm
ِAs you said vaibhavgupte , Koji may have committed suicide but Goshu’s hints sometimes have a meaning other than the apparent meaning as I think this is the only way that Goshu wants to point out that Rum is not one of the three .

Your words may actually make sense because I still don't know why Wakasa described Haneda Koji as a foolish guy , was it because he committed suicide or because he saw something he shouldn't see or because he threatened Chikara that he would expose him because he cheated on playing . ??? ??? ???

As for the red herring that Goshu says, there is arabic youtuber has made a pretty convincing conclusion that Yuzuki Fukui is Akemi Miyano and Bourbon who faked her death .
Goshu When he answered the question Is Akimi alive or dead ? Goshu showed a picture of Gin in Red shirts case when he was talking to Kir about Akai , Gin told her if he was alive I will kill him myself .
So this YouTuber assumed that Akimi was still alive like Akai and her death was also faked by Bourbon , This reason explains why Bourbon was the first to doubt about Akai's death , this is because Bourbon had previously made a plan to fake Akemi's death , and so Bourbon assumed that Conan and Akai did the same .
Image
This akemi miyano being yuzuki fukui theory looks
interesting although I am sure she is dead.

Anyways this is not relevant here.
our point is about volume 18 red herring hint for which
no other good explanation has come so far.
but akemi miyano death ocurred in volume 2.
so even if we believe akemi is alive.
gosho should have called that volume 2 red herring
not volume 18 red herring.
although her death is recalled in volume 18 .
it took place in volume 2
and gosho would definitely have called it volume 2
red herring .
since he called it volume 18 red herring hint .
its not the red herring he is referring to here.

The only other possible red herring in volume 18 apart from
what I am suggesting would be that
haibara's parents are alive.
gosho has clearly said they are dead in gosho talk day.
( If someone wants to confirm it I can state year of that talk day. It will take some time)

So this leaves kohji name being in the list itself
as red herring as lone red herring contender so far.
If this is true kohji suicide theory becomes very strong.
if there is some other red herring in volume 18 plz tell.
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:19 am

The only other possible red herring in volume 18 apart from
what I am suggesting would be that
haibara's parents are alive.
gosho has clearly said they are dead in gosho talk day.
Chap. 179 pg 10 Haibara: my intention wasn't to make posion to begin with...

Chap. 948 pg 5 Haibara: well, what I was really forced to make was another drug...

And also Vermouth: we are both trying to raise the dead against the stream of time...

This leads me believe that what Shiho was developing (and as a result her parents) was a drug to revive the dead (This is a fan fiction that has been brought here many times, I know). So her parents are dead, and Shiho had her own vested interests in making the drug to revive them.
By the way, in that Sherry introduction case there are so many plot details, even a small thing could be a red herring.
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

Reader wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:24 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:19 am

The only other possible red herring in volume 18 apart from
what I am suggesting would be that
haibara's parents are alive.
gosho has clearly said they are dead in gosho talk day.
Chap. 179 pg 10 Haibara: my intention wasn't to make posion to begin with...

Chap. 948 pg 5 Haibara: well, what I was really forced to make was another drug...

And also Vermouth: we are both trying to raise the dead against the stream of time...

This leads me believe that what Shiho was developing (and as a result her parents) was a drug to revive the dead (This is a fan fiction that has been brought here many times, I know). So her parents are dead, and Shiho had her own vested interests in making the drug to revive them.
By the way, in that Sherry introduction case there are so many plot details, even a small thing could be a red herring.
Yes this haibara drug thing is definitely a possible
red herring candidate.
but if you see the date on which gosho said this.
it was gosho talk day 2016.
It was 1 january 2016.
he was asked : is there any fake thing ( red herring)
that no one yet noticed.
he said : yes there was a red herring in volume 18
that no one noticed. it will be soon referred to.

Now what do you mean by soon referred to??
note that this date is 1 jan 2016
and kohji haneda's name being in aptx list
was mentioned in manga chapter released somewhere
near jan 20.(In last part of shukichi
envelope case)
and immediately in next case began kohji haneda arc.
with those important three cases

and that haibara drug thing is not mentioned anywhere
near it.

this referred to very soon statement pretty
much consolidates the fact that red herring
he is referring to is presence of kohji haneda's
name in aptx victims list.
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

What I think is that we should consider the context in which this red herring was referred to. Some points just to summarize:
-2016 gosho interview took place before the release of clenched scissors file 948 (in which Kohji haneda was introduced. If he was referred to in previous files then correct me please).
-haneda shukichi was already established by this point.

-in that interview, he said there's a red herring in vol 18 that everyone overlooked.
-he said it will be referred to soon.
-he further said that "you could say someone might show up...when you see his name you would go Really? or something like that."

-the list shown in vol 18 (which has high chances of being the red herring in question) has the name haneda kohji in it.

Now my question is as follows:
Red herring will only work if it throws us(readers) off.
We have no reason to suspect the name haneda kohji in the list of having any importance. The list had total 4 names , including kudo shinichi. The other names are equally red herrings.
Now it would have been a different thing if only the 'haneda' part was visible. Then one could jump towards haneda shukichi. But that is not the case since full name can be seen.
So considering this viewpoint, ghosho's claim that 'when you see the name you'll go 'Really'?' makes no sense because I know that the name in the list haneda kohji and the name haneda shukichi is different; also I have no reason to assert any special interest to that name just because it resembles some other name.
Considering all this, I don't think Kohji haneda name in the list is the red herring.
vaibhavgupte

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32

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

Reader wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 3:40 am
What I think is that we should consider the context in which this red herring was referred to. Some points just to summarize:
-2016 gosho interview took place before the release of clenched scissors file 948 (in which Kohji haneda was introduced. If he was referred to in previous files then correct me please).
-haneda shukichi was already established by this point.

-in that interview, he said there's a red herring in vol 18 that everyone overlooked.
-he said it will be referred to soon.
-he further said that "you could say someone might show up...when you see his name you would go Really? or something like that."

-the list shown in vol 18 (which has high chances of being the red herring in question) has the name haneda kohji in it.

Now my question is as follows:
Red herring will only work if it throws us(readers) off.
We have no reason to suspect the name haneda kohji in the list of having any importance. The list had total 4 names , including kudo shinichi. The other names are equally red herrings.
Now it would have been a different thing if only the 'haneda' part was visible. Then one could jump towards haneda shukichi. But that is not the case since full name can be seen.
So considering this viewpoint, ghosho's claim that 'when you see the name you'll go 'Really'?' makes no sense because I know that the name in the list haneda kohji and the name haneda shukichi is different; also I have no reason to assert any special interest to that name just because it resembles some other name.
Considering all this, I don't think Kohji haneda name in the list is the red herring.
First let me correct you.
haneda kohji character wasnt introduced in file 948 clenched scissors case.
But in last chapter of shukichi envelope case file 947.
here shukichi mentions during the case that he had a step brother kohji haneda whom he respected.
he used to say "always stick to your original plan".
so basically the character of kohji is built up in file 947.

Then at the end of chapter haibara asks conan ?
have you heard kohji haneda name before.
conan says yes he was shogi player who won four crowns.
here haibara mentions presence of his name
two names below
shinichi kudo in aptx victims list.
see the look at haibara face in last pannel of chapter 947.
this is that "oh really!!" moment you were saying.
gosho meant
" someone (kohji haneda )might show up .
when you see his name in ( aptx victims list ) you go
oh really?"

Yes, kohji face appears first in 948. but character is developed in 947 and that
referral to kohji presence in aptx list from
volume 18 is in file 947.
so this is the oh really moment is in 947.
since you directly went to 948 .
you missed this oh really moment.
you are not expected to see the red herring in volume 18.
here it is put so that it creates the " oh really" movement
when this unnoticed thing is referred in 947 after so long.

the chronology is like this:
step 1: in volume 18, the red herring is noticed.
step 2: in file 947 this red herring is referred but audience
dont realise its red herring.
step 3: in some future file near end of rum arc,
it will be revealed that his presence in aptx victims list
was red herring , he didnt die by aptx.

Release date of file 947 is approx Jan 20, 2016
gosho said on Jan 1, 2016 that
"there is a red herring ( fake ) in volume 18
nobody has yet noticed.
it will be referred to soon. "
Jan 1 to Jan 20 is very soon acc to gosho standards.
if you are saying this referral is not the red herring
gosho is referring,
then acc to me there is no other referral from volume
18 " VERY SOON " after Jan 1, 2016.
If there is plz update me.
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

Maybe you are right, but things are uncertain still and like everything else with DC we will have to wait for things to reveal.
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

My perception (at the time being), is rather that the red herring, isn't Haneda Kohji being in the list. It is rather Kudo Shinichi, and it is quite peculiar. We know that Shinichi took the drug, allegedly the one Haibara was working on, yet we see him in the APTX list, with Kohji, before Haibara even worked on the drug, 17 years ago, when she was a one year old.

I think strongly that Shinichi being on the list, two names above Kohji. Is a strong red herring, since the list seems to be compiled before Haibara's involvement. The options as I see them are;

1. The list in itself is a red herring, a 'fake'. And not an updated one. It could be a misleading list, or someone (say Wakasa) has made it up from mere deductions without any definite evidence suggesting the names are APTX victims, this is in order to keep track and make a connection with the BO and the victims, a rather plausible scenario for Wakasa Rumi, if she is not Rum.

2. Kudo Shinichi's name is a red herring, being inserted by someone else.

3. Kohji's name has been updated recently, based on the basis he took an APTX.

4. Haibara's list when updated Shinichi's status to dead, didn't seem to include Kohji, prompting us to think, either her list is dubious, or the new one is, which means the name Kohji, either has been deleted due to discovery of irrelevance of his death and APTX. Or that it has been added, meaning someone made a deduction on his status.
Spiritual

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Spiritual »

After rewatching some anime episodes(941-942) i have eliminated Kuroda Hyoue from being a Rum suspect. First of all, I would say it is better to see movements of a character than not (anime over manga) when it comes to observation. Kuroda was the only one of the 3 Rum suspects who was very surprised when checking about Kudo Shinichi news online being alive. If you would make a thorough observation, his face (Kuroda) when he saw the video of Kudou online. He was really surprised or excited/shocked (based on the anime). It wasn't because of Kudo, but because of Sera Masumi. Yes! Sera was in he video posted online. Kuroda's daughter, who he immediately recognized after realizing the resemblance between him and her. Watch the whole episode. Until 942. Watch the end when the Kudo family fan took back what she said,(bribed by an autograph from Kudo parents). "It was just an illusion". And Heiji told the media that it was Okita, not Shinichi. Look at Kuroda's face of all the 3 Rum suspects when they all read he latest update online. Kuroda was the only one who kind of smiled looking at his phone. My assumption being Kuroda looking at Sera, her daughter on the video online. Thinking she was that baby in the womb when i left my family....

This is all for now.
From a new member.
Hello everyone.. i have more to share. I would like to hear from you guys first about my post before i make my next post about Wakita.

PS
i haven't read all pages of this thread. Too lazy to do it. So in case there's a theory like mine. I am sorry for repeating.
Like i said, i am too lazy to read all pages.
Spiritual

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Spiritual »

To follow up. Yes, Kuroda i think is Tsutomu Akai in disguise. It was too fishy for him being the real Kuroda given the fact that some people from the police department said that he has "changed" a lot, looked so differeny physically after being in coma for so long.


Sorry for not mentioning this in my previous post. I am having a booze right at the moment.
vaibhavgupte

Posts:
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

Spiritual wrote:
Yesterday, 4:32 pm
After rewatching some anime episodes(941-942) i have eliminated Kuroda Hyoue from being a Rum suspect. First of all, I would say it is better to see movements of a character than not (anime over manga) when it comes to observation. Kuroda was the only one of the 3 Rum suspects who was very surprised when checking about Kudo Shinichi news online being alive. If you would make a thorough observation, his face (Kuroda) when he saw the video of Kudou online. He was really surprised or excited/shocked (based on the anime). It wasn't because of Kudo, but because of Sera Masumi. Yes! Sera was in he video posted online. Kuroda's daughter, who he immediately recognized after realizing the resemblance between him and her. Watch the whole episode. Until 942. Watch the end when the Kudo family fan took back what she said,(bribed by an autograph from Kudo parents). "It was just an illusion". And Heiji told the media that it was Okita, not Shinichi. Look at Kuroda's face of all the 3 Rum suspects when they all read he latest update online. Kuroda was the only one who kind of smiled looking at his phone. My assumption being Kuroda looking at Sera, her daughter on the video online. Thinking she was that baby in the womb when i left my family....

This is all for now.
From a new member.
Hello everyone.. i have more to share. I would like to hear from you guys first about my post before i make my next post about Wakita.

PS
i haven't read all pages of this thread. Too lazy to do it. So in case there's a theory like mine. I am sorry for repeating.
Like i said, i am too lazy to read all pages.
another possibility is tsutomu could be wakita.
coz if he thought his saw his daughter with shinichi
dont you think he will atleast ask about this guy shinichi
which wakita did by visiting agasa house.
rum wouldnt risk such a thing coz of chances of being
caught and also he already assigned bourbon about it.

although I think kuroda is rum . I am confused now.
the best possibility if kuroda is not rum
is kohji father. this looks logical .
just look at their hair and face structure.
there is atleast a realistic chance of this being
true .
Zerozaki4869

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

There was no video of Masumi online. Only of Heiji with Shinichi.......
(So this Masumi argument is plain wrong.)
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