Mystery Poll: Poll #34

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Kor
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby Kor » July 10th, 2018, 11:03 am

sherry26 wrote:
Kor wrote:
sherry26 wrote:Wakita is Tsutomu obviously. To those who think Kuroda is Tsutomu... How are you going to explain 'demon in the darkness' quote?


Probably the same way you'd explain the quote if it applies to Wakita...? Not really seeing the issue here.

Okay here's what I believe. Mary quotes Tsutomu a lot. In the end of that Hotta Gaito murder case, Gin and Mary use the same quote.
Remember how Gosho reacted to the question about Tsutomu and gin knowing each other? Gin using his quote heavily implies that Tsutomu is infiltrating the organisation. Wakita could be Tsutomu in disguise who is sent by gin to investigate Kogoro. Haibara has already met Kuroda and she didn't sense any bo aura from him but still she hasn't met Wakita


So I agree Gin and Mary using the same quote implies that Tsutomu infiltrated the organization at some point. We don't necessarily have to assume that Tsutomu's still in there. Haibara indeed met Kuroda and didn't get triggered on her first encounter, just like she met Rumi and didn't get triggered on her first encounter. It's only when both Kuroda and Rumi are at the same case together that Haibara gets triggered, and while it very well seems like Rumi's the cause of it, Gosho has used her BO radar thing to fool us in the past so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Kuroda could actually be the cause.

(and as an extra, I'd say that Haibara not meeting Wakita yet is more of an additional hint Wakita is Rum rather than Tsutomu).

It's just that we have a big reason to think Kuroda's been involved with the Kouji case, and the only three people (potentially alive) we've heard of who were involved with it to some degree are Rum, Asaka and Tsutomu, then Tsutomu's the one that fits Kuroda the most (at least in my opinion).
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Zerozaki4869
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby Zerozaki4869 » July 10th, 2018, 11:57 am

Kuroda seems too oblivious to be the person who had infiltrated BO in the past. It's more likely that his source of Info regarding BO is his underling Bourbon. He's an out and out NPA guy. Now if we really think he was involved in Kohji case how much was his involvement? We only get a glimpse of Kuroda thinking about Kohji's corpse. Given our current Tsutomu speculation(that Tsutomu botched up one of Rum's eye and thus bought Kohji some time to complete the message) Kuroda is very unlikely to be Tsutomu. he's more likely to be the Bodyguard who was codenamed Asaka.

Why do I think this, because if you look at Asaka's fingers you can see a low 2d:4d ratio and the only Asaka candidate Rumi has a reverse ratio. So Rumi isn't Asaka, Rumi is also not behaving like Asaka.(The name itself is too dangerous to use, on the other hand the real Asaka is more likely to be lured out by Rumi than Tsutomu. Tsutomu knows BO inch by inch.)

Now there is also the proof of Kuroda's coma. If you say he was swapped mid-coma you have to give evidence that Why the imposter didn't change his hair colour when he took care of the facial injuries? Also when did the swap happened?(Nurses change the bandages at regular interval, so if the hair colour changed at a later time/during the end of Kuroda's coma the cause wouldn't have been attributed to the stress of the coma.)

Yes you're absolutely right to point out that Kuroda is being built up as Tsutomu(good guy, Tsutomu like dress-code, Shukichi like behaviour, love for red tea.)

Wakita is being built up as Rum(odd, guy, more than what he seems.) but do ponder on these points that
1)Wakita's name is a direct reference to Toki Wa Kanenari="Time is money."
2)Wakita has a seemingly non-working eye.
3)Wakita is so clingy that he becomes suspicious in the process.
4)Wakita tries to gather info from a family friend of Shinichi.
5)After seeing wakita Conan was reminded of Rum.

So Wakita will remind anyone who knows these (Old, strong and Womanly one eyed stuff) about Rum. Wakita wants to accompany Kogoro but he comes off as a suspicious fanboy instead of a suave agent(Bourbon's ploy of becoming apprentice).
Wakita asks about Shinichi from one of the family friend of Kudos in a very suspicious manner.

Combine his love for the idiom and Gin's interest in Kogoro. He can be very well be a ratty Bo who wants to know how much Kogoro knows about Rum(instead of BO's mission of keeping watch on Kogoro) and alert Rum's target Shinichi Kudo.

Would real Rum be this sort of a buffoon, but if he's Rum's enemy it makes sense. So he's either Asaka or Tsutomu, but he acts more like Tsutomu than Asaka.
sherry26
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby sherry26 » July 10th, 2018, 1:14 pm

So I agree Gin and Mary using the same quote implies that Tsutomu infiltrated the organization at some point. We don't necessarily have to assume that Tsutomu's still in there.

So if he still is not there then that means he infiltrated it at some point but was successfully able to come out of it without them knowing he is a traitor.But that's unlikely. Because we all know that what organisation does with the traitors.And even if he was able to come out successfully,the organisation would have known about him.I mean the senior members at least.

Haibara indeed met Kuroda and didn't get triggered on her first encounter, just like she met Rumi and didn't get triggered on her first encounter. It's only when both Kuroda and Rumi are at the same case together that Haibara gets triggered, and while it very well seems like Rumi's the cause of it, Gosho has used her BO radar thing to fool us in the past so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Kuroda could actually be the cause.

Haibara indeed got triggered in the burning tent case but it wasn't because they emit bo aura.Because of the way Rumi was staring at that one eyed dude.There's difference. Yeah it's true that her radar completely failed during that shrine case but I think we can still believe in her bo radar because it failed only once and rum is number 2 of the organisation.

(and as an extra, I'd say that Haibara not meeting Wakita yet is more of an additional hint Wakita is Rum rather than Tsutomu).

So you really think Wakita is rum? In Wakita's intro case he calls rum weak. How do you explain that? Is rum self critical? Also, If I were number 2 of the organisation,I wouldn't go myself disguising to check on my targets....I would give other members order exactly what the actual rum did.He ordered Amuro.

It's just that we have a big reason to think Kuroda's been involved with the Kouji case, and the only three people (potentially alive) we've heard of who were involved with it to some degree are Rum, Asaka and Tsutomu, then Tsutomu's the one that fits Kuroda the most (at least in my opinion).

Its true that we are currently aware of only 3 people being involved.But you can't deny the possibility of fourth person being involved.What if rum is not one of those 3 suspects and is actually a fourth person? And we still don't know exactly up to what extent Tsutomu was involved.He also might not be present there when the actual murder happened.And got involved in it as a case.
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Max1996
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby Max1996 » July 10th, 2018, 1:22 pm

sherry26 wrote:What if rum is not one of those 3 suspects and is actually a fourth person?

Would Gosho ever do that kind of thing, though?
Kor
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby Kor » July 10th, 2018, 2:41 pm

sherry26 wrote:So if he still is not there then that means he infiltrated it at some point but was successfully able to come out of it without them knowing he is a traitor.But that's unlikely. Because we all know that what organisation does with the traitors.And even if he was able to come out successfully,the organisation would have known about him.I mean the senior members at least.


Maybe he was found out, though? While I don't know how much of Kuroda's given backstory is true, it's at least safe to say he was gravely injured in the past. Maybe the BO thought they had him but he survived (and as such had to go with a different identity. And as far as the BO and traitors go... Akai managed to survive pretty well all things considered.

Haibara indeed got triggered in the burning tent case but it wasn't because they emit bo aura.Because of the way Rumi was staring at that one eyed dude.There's difference. Yeah it's true that her radar completely failed during that shrine case but I think we can still believe in her bo radar because it failed only once and rum is number 2 of the organisation.


I'm not convinced it came from Rumi when a few panels later we see Kuroda also looking at the scene and due to the nature of the BOdar to fool us. (And if it's coming from Rumi that means she's also in or was in the BO, which would then require an explanation of why some BO woman is targeting Conan, has a shogi piece, scars, and also is probably not a bad person at the end of the day.)

Btw, that guy she was staring at wasn't one eyed (not important, just wanted to point that out).

So you really think Wakita is rum?


Yes, the "time is money" thing sealed the deal for me for the most part. It's exactly the type of silliness Gosho would be willing to go for (as evident by the "Aono" hint from the latest case). I'm also not looking for other suspects besides the main 3, and under the process of elimination, Wakita fits the bill the most.

In Wakita's intro case he calls rum weak. How do you explain that? Is rum self critical?


Dunno, maybe. Maybe Gosho thought that by having Wakita imply that Rum is weak, then readers won't find him the most suspicious of the bunch? But who knows...

Also, If I were number 2 of the organisation,I wouldn't go myself disguising to check on my targets....I would give other members order exactly what the actual rum did.He ordered Amuro.


And if I were Shuukichi, I wouldn't start avoiding my girlfriend at the expense of getting seven titles in some game under the pretense that she'd be really into that, much less would I condition my marriage to her based on getting all of those seven titles because that's a really stupid thing to do. I guess that my point is that what we would be doing if we were the characters isn't that great of an argument, and characters in this series have exemplified time and time again that they can be dumber than a rock and their actions can be inherently silly. Especially the organization, which has showcased quite the incompetence considering all the spies it has in it.
I don't look at it from the mindset that Rum is like this genius tactician who will be smarter than the rest of the bunch. Since he's a character that's written by Gosho, he'll probably behave like a character that's written by Gosho.

Its true that we are currently aware of only 3 people being involved.But you can't deny the possibility of fourth person being involved.


The inability to deny a possibility doesn't inherently mean said possibility is more likely than others. There are plenty of possibilities I can't deny currently. I mean, you can't deny the possibility that Kuroda could be Tsutomu, right?

What if rum is not one of those 3 suspects and is actually a fourth person?


I've yet to see a super convincing theory that uses all the knowledge we have to pinpoint Rum as a 4th person, though. I also tend to believe that the idea of a 4th person stems from wishful thinking by readers who hope Gosho wouldn't be so repetitive or predictable (even though Gosho is extremely repetitive as a writer). I always leave room to the possibility I'm wrong, though.
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Zerozaki4869
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby Zerozaki4869 » July 10th, 2018, 10:33 pm

Kor wrote:
sherry26 wrote:So if he still is not there then that means he infiltrated it at some point but was successfully able to come out of it without them knowing he is a traitor.But that's unlikely. Because we all know that what organisation does with the traitors.And even if he was able to come out successfully,the organisation would have known about him.I mean the senior members at least.


Maybe he was found out, though? While I don't know how much of Kuroda's given backstory is true, it's at least safe to say he was gravely injured in the past. Maybe the BO thought they had him but he survived (and as such had to go with a different identity. And as far as the BO and traitors go... Akai managed to survive pretty well all things considered.)


Yet still this Kuroda(Tsutomu in your opinion) is more interested in Wakasa Rumi than in Rum? That's a severe red flag for me. Kuroda was in Karasuma group, his wife knew of the name yet he interprets it as Wakasa Rumi.
That's the biggest ever red flag.



Haibara indeed got triggered in the burning tent case but it wasn't because they emit bo aura.Because of the way Rumi was staring at that one eyed dude.There's difference. Yeah it's true that her radar completely failed during that shrine case but I think we can still believe in her bo radar because it failed only once and rum is number 2 of the organisation.


I'm not convinced it came from Rumi when a few panels later we see Kuroda also looking at the scene and due to the nature of the BOdar to fool us. (And if it's coming from Rumi that means she's also in or was in the BO, which would then require an explanation of why some BO woman is targeting Conan, has a shogi piece, scars, and also is probably not a bad person at the end of the day.)

Btw, that guy she was staring at wasn't one eyed (not important, just wanted to point that out).

Yet the same woman has a BO kill list(APTX list), has a laptop which can open the said list(as BO documents can't get opened in anything which is not theirs), has something very intriguing in her name yet BO gives two hoots about her and in general is being just a bait to lure out people who is interested in Kohji case(i.e Kuroda).
A possible Rum-underling

So you really think Wakita is rum?


Yes, the "time is money" thing sealed the deal for me for the most part. It's exactly the type of silliness Gosho would be willing to go for (as evident by the "Aono" hint from the latest case). I'm also not looking for other suspects besides the main 3, and under the process of elimination, Wakita fits the bill the most.


It means that Wakita is aware of the quote and using it to gauge Kogoro's cognizance of Rum.
Recall, that after seeing Wakita, Conan thought of Rum.

In Wakita's intro case he calls rum weak. How do you explain that? Is rum self critical?


Dunno, maybe. Maybe Gosho thought that by having Wakita imply that Rum is weak, then readers won't find him the most suspicious of the bunch? But who knows...


Best not to give it a thought, cause that's relating to Pirate's spirit the horse, no more or no less.

Also, If I were number 2 of the organisation,I wouldn't go myself disguising to check on my targets....I would give other members order exactly what the actual rum did.He ordered Amuro.


And if I were Shuukichi, I wouldn't start avoiding my girlfriend at the expense of getting seven titles in some game under the pretense that she'd be really into that, much less would I condition my marriage to her based on getting all of those seven titles because that's a really stupid thing to do. I guess that my point is that what we would be doing if we were the characters isn't that great of an argument, and characters in this series have exemplified time and time again that they can be dumber than a rock and their actions can be inherently silly. Especially the organization, which has showcased quite the incompetence considering all the spies it has in it.
I don't look at it from the mindset that Rum is like this genius tactician who will be smarter than the rest of the bunch. Since he's a character that's written by Gosho, he'll probably behave like a character that's written by Gosho.


Nothing to say here, yet maybe there's a little room for thought. Else Jodie would have been Vermi and The FBI agent would have been Araide.

Its true that we are currently aware of only 3 people being involved.But you can't deny the possibility of fourth person being involved.


The inability to deny a possibility doesn't inherently mean said possibility is more likely than others. There are plenty of possibilities I can't deny currently. I mean, you can't deny the possibility that Kuroda could be Tsutomu, right?


There's a very big hint that there could be more than 3 people involved.
Ask yourself would Tsutomu or a bodyguard(Asaka) take away stuff from a corpse's hand to botch up the crime scene?
Rum, Asaka, Tsutomu and Clue thief are the four players.

What if rum is not one of those 3 suspects and is actually a fourth person?


I've yet to see a super convincing theory that uses all the knowledge we have to pinpoint Rum as a 4th person, though. I also tend to believe that the idea of a 4th person stems from wishful thinking by readers who hope Gosho wouldn't be so repetitive or predictable (even though Gosho is extremely repetitive as a writer). I always leave room to the possibility I'm wrong, though.


Yup, that's where I have to agree.
Kor
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #33

Postby Kor » July 16th, 2018, 12:48 pm

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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby MeiTanteixX » July 18th, 2018, 5:04 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Rum, Asaka, Tsutomu and Clue thief are the four players.
Four unknown variables doesn't mean that they can't end up being three players.

Personally however, I'm seeing at least 2 more people involved besides the three Rum suspects.
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Zerozaki4869
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #32

Postby Zerozaki4869 » July 18th, 2018, 11:09 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:Rum, Asaka, Tsutomu and Clue thief are the four players.
Four unknown variables doesn't mean that they can't end up being three players.

Personally however, I'm seeing at least 2 more people involved besides the three Rum suspects.


But One is a Bodyguard hired by the lady having ties with CIA/FBI. (Unlikely to botch up a crime scene which hardly relates back to that person.)
The other one is not likely to botch up a crime scene.(more likely to get the info a and then return it to Kohji's palm)
The last one is the perpetrator who couldn't clean up.(So it's very unlikely the perpetrator was on the run so didn't have time to grab the clue.)

Hence it's it's fairly logical to assume the fourth player, if evidence arises, the fourth player may well just merge in one of the three or get into it's own self.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #34

Postby Kor » August 4th, 2018, 2:42 pm

Poll #34 is up: https://www.strawpoll.me/16209832

We still have a few more weeks, so we're scrapping the bottom of the barrel I guess :-X
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Nemomon
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #34

Postby Nemomon » August 5th, 2018, 2:06 am

No. It doesn't look like there is anything else in there. Well, I hope that after so many years now Gosho would already tell us if anything else would be there...
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.

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