Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

[Spimer]

I agree that we're getting a bit off-topic here.

I know that there's a RUM mention in the chapter itself and the cook is being set up as RUM red herring but speculation about other characters being RUM should be on the appropiate thread in this Story Discussion board.

From now on let's go back to discussing the case: I wrote a summary in the first page of the thread if you want to go over the details we know insofar again.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

[Filipino_4869]

I hate to sound silly here but...

Is looking like a mouse the FIFTH characteristic of RUM??? (Man, Woman, Old, Artificial Eye).
And the chef's TWO (2) buck teeth implies his being the NO. 2?
RAt + MoUse = RAMU (RUM) Hahaha!

Coincidentally, I think we can actually find a "RED HERRING" (some kind of fish) in a sushi restaurant! In this case, the chef is! Haha

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

concerning the case.

Spoiler:

did you know that Cola can be a semi-effective blood stain remover ?
If it was a rather small stain, then its possible.

The idea that cola can be used as a cleaner / polisher / rust remover has been around for quite a while.

On mythbusters they did a test of all of the uses of Cola
""Cola is able to... ...clean up blood. Confirmed ""
""Adam and Jamie designed a fake car collision scene and used animal blood. After two hours, Adam used soap and water in one area while Jamie used cola in another. After rinsing both areas off, they noted while the cola wasn't really as effective, Jamie's area was cleaner than Adam's, leaving the myth confirmed.""

[Serinox]

Spoiler:

Hmm, Kanenori wants Kogoro to come round to the restaurant more often to tell him stories and offers him price reductions in exchange, which Kanenori would pay for from his wage. Also, this exchange between one of the customers and the cook is interesting: Natsume orders the usual, but Kanenori can't bring her that since he is a new employee. When Natsume asks where the previous worker is, Kanenori explains that he apparently had a traffic accident and is currently in hospital.

Overall, even with Conan remembering Haibara's words about Rum, Kanenori isn't made as on the nose suspicious as Kuroda or even Yamato in this file (since his eye is merely injured and he is willing to show it to them), but these little exchanges are the things that feel more suspicious here to me, though I'm still not convinced that Kanenori could be Rum because of the eye matter.

[k11chi]

Spoiler:

i cant quite put my finger on it but tjere is definitely something going on about Rum.

[MeiTanteixX]

concerning the case.

Spoiler:

did you know that Cola can be a semi-effective blood stain remover ?
If it was a rather small stain, then its possible.

The idea that cola can be used as a cleaner / polisher / rust remover has been around for quite a while.

On mythbusters they did a test of all of the uses of Cola
""Cola is able to... ...clean up blood. Confirmed ""
""Adam and Jamie designed a fake car collision scene and used animal blood. After two hours, Adam used soap and water in one area while Jamie used cola in another. After rinsing both areas off, they noted while the cola wasn't really as effective, Jamie's area was cleaner than Adam's, leaving the myth confirmed.""

That's a very nice input!

Spoiler:

I was thinking that they weren't gonna make a huge case out of it, to the point that they would involve the police and do proper blood tests, so I was thinking that the whole "blood stain mystery" was gonna be passed of as something that was washed away by the rain. After all, it was raining when Kogoro was buying those horse tickets and accidentally picked up the winning ticket, after bumping into the thief who dropped it.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Spoiler:

Hmm, Kanenori wants Kogoro to come round to the restaurant more often to tell him stories and offers him price reductions in exchange, which Kanenori would pay for from his wage. Also, this exchange between one of the customers and the cook is interesting: Natsume orders the usual, but Kanenori can't bring her that since he is a new employee. When Natsume asks where the previous worker is, Kanenori explains that he apparently had a traffic accident and is currently in hospital.

Overall, even with Conan remembering Haibara's words about Rum, Kanenori isn't made as on the nose suspicious as Kuroda or even Yamato in this file (since his eye is merely injured and he is willing to show it to them), but these little exchanges are the things that feel more suspicious here to me, though I'm still not convinced that Kanenori could be Rum because of the eye matter.

Spoiler:

This case, so far, reminds me of Rei's/Toru's intro case (File 793–File 795/Episode 667–Episode 668), for all the reasons you've stated.

At this point, I'm just hoping we'll get more suspects between now and File 1000. Because if Kanenori is Rum, then this was far too easy. With more suspects, it'll become a bit harder to lock it down.

[eros1607]

Spoiler:

Hmm, Kanenori wants Kogoro to come round to the restaurant more often to tell him stories and offers him price reductions in exchange, which Kanenori would pay for from his wage. Also, this exchange between one of the customers and the cook is interesting: Natsume orders the usual, but Kanenori can't bring her that since he is a new employee. When Natsume asks where the previous worker is, Kanenori explains that he apparently had a traffic accident and is currently in hospital.

Overall, even with Conan remembering Haibara's words about Rum, Kanenori isn't made as on the nose suspicious as Kuroda or even Yamato in this file (since his eye is merely injured and he is willing to show it to them), but these little exchanges are the things that feel more suspicious here to me, though I'm still not convinced that Kanenori could be Rum because of the eye matter.

Spoiler:

This case, so far, reminds me of Rei's/Toru's intro case (File 793–File 795/Episode 667–Episode 668), for all the reasons you've stated.

At this point, I'm just hoping we'll get more suspects between now and File 1000. Because if Kanenori is Rum, then this was far too easy. With more suspects, it'll become a bit harder to lock it down.

But please don't turn out that Rum is another spy like Rei. It will be very unbalanced and not be a fair game at all if Conan has Akai, Rei, Heiji, FBI, CIA, and then Rum when BO has only the Boss and Gin. I would like a very scary enemy that can outsmart Conan or even outsmart the entire Conan team. From the Clash, it has been a bit long that Conan is not outsmarted (in real time it has been 10 years actually).

[Tantei San]

Spoiler:

Hmm, Kanenori wants Kogoro to come round to the restaurant more often to tell him stories and offers him price reductions in exchange, which Kanenori would pay for from his wage. Also, this exchange between one of the customers and the cook is interesting: Natsume orders the usual, but Kanenori can't bring her that since he is a new employee. When Natsume asks where the previous worker is, Kanenori explains that he apparently had a traffic accident and is currently in hospital.

Overall, even with Conan remembering Haibara's words about Rum, Kanenori isn't made as on the nose suspicious as Kuroda or even Yamato in this file (since his eye is merely injured and he is willing to show it to them), but these little exchanges are the things that feel more suspicious here to me, though I'm still not convinced that Kanenori could be Rum because of the eye matter.

Spoiler:

This case, so far, reminds me of Rei's/Toru's intro case (File 793–File 795/Episode 667–Episode 668), for all the reasons you've stated.

At this point, I'm just hoping we'll get more suspects between now and File 1000. Because if Kanenori is Rum, then this was far too easy. With more suspects, it'll become a bit harder to lock it down.

But please don't turn out that Rum is another spy like Rei. It will be very unbalanced and not be a fair game at all if Conan has Akai, Rei, Heiji, FBI, CIA, and then Rum when BO has only the Boss and Gin. I would like a very scary enemy that can outsmart Conan or even outsmart the entire Conan team. From the Clash, it has been a bit long that Conan is not outsmarted (in real time it has been 10 years actually).

I don't think so RUM is going to be another spy. Its just not possible. He's is 2nd in command and a person of that type won't be harming the BO instead he could be someone who must have laid the foundation of it probably with the boss.
And i think there is a possibilty of another RUM suspect. The ones that have came till now have some sort of positivity in them which makes it difficult to understand who he could be .

[k11chi]

Spoiler:

I think I've seen cola be able to work on metals and such, clean rust off iron or something like that. And blood contains iron, so it may be related.

[Valentin]

Spoiler:

Whether or not Kanenori Wakita is supposed to be a red herring, he theoretically meets at least three out of the four criteria which are attributed to Rum: His injury might make him look like having an artificial eye, his compact figure might make him look muscular, and his kyphotic posture might make him look like an old man. Besides, he appears to have quite cheerful moments, which might be distortive in text communication.

All this is rather vague and seems too obvious to me, though. While the idea that the Mouri Detective Agency is not only targeted by Gin from afar, but also immediately surrounded by both Bourbon and Rum is certainly appealing, I doubt that the number two would be introduced just like that.

Anyway, I still hope that this case will eventually provide a useful hint as to why those descriptions are so conflicting. Or my assumption that Aoyama has some mind-blowing resolution for this mystery is naive, and it actually is as simple as it would be with Kanenori Wakita.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Spoiler:

Whether or not Kanenori Wakita is supposed to be a red herring, he theoretically meets at least three out of the four criteria which are attributed to Rum: His injury might make him look like having an artificial eye, his compact figure might make him look muscular, and his kyphotic posture might make him look like an old man. Besides, he appears to have quite cheerful moments, which might be distortive in text communication.

All this is rather vague and seems too obvious to me, though. While the idea that the Mouri Detective Agency is not only targeted by Gin from afar, but also immediately surrounded by both Bourbon and Rum is certainly appealing, I doubt that the number two would be introduced just like that.

Anyway, I still hope that this case will eventually provide a useful hint as to why those descriptions are so conflicting. Or my assumption that Aoyama has some mind-blowing resolution for this mystery is naive, and it actually is as simple as it would be with Kanenori Wakita.

Spoiler:

But wouldn't that be the point? For Gosho to have people think Rum wouldn't be introduced like that, and then introduce him just like that?

The Rum arc, so far, has had cases featuring either/or, or both, various POVs and incomplete/obscured information: the Department Store Stabbing case (File 939–File 941); the code sheet from the Shukichi's Envelope case (File 945–File 947); the incomplete/obscure information surrounding the Koji Haneda/Amanda Hughes double murder, such as Asaka's gender, and whether Asaka is Rum or not; and the trick from the Nue case (File 958–File 962). I wonder if Shiho/Ai will ever give detail to the stories she heard from other BO members about Rum—maybe then, we could piece it together.

Hence why he should introduce more suspects (and/or officially reveal that those like Heizo, Taka'aki/Koumei and Chikara Katsumata are suspects). If he does, we'll have a harder time, if the new suspects all give off the same vibes as Kanenori (as in, any of them could be Rum).

[Valentin]

Spoiler:

But wouldn't that be the point? For Gosho to have people think Rum wouldn't be introduced like that, and then introduce him just like that?

Spoiler:

Of course, the possibility to introduce a relevant character without any fuss is always there. I like how Aoyama told his readers “By the way, this the boss of the FBI“ when James Black simply entered Jodie’s hospital room after being neglected in the grand finale before.

But I think that this case is different. Compared with earlier parts of the series, this arc is supposed to bring the second-in-command into play, and I doubt that it would be an adequate narrative choice to first establish those conflicting descriptions and then reveal the solution to be someone who looks as if he had only been designed afterward and based on the relatively banal subsumptions that Conan made as soon as in the Kawanakajima Murder Case with regard to Kansuke Yamato.

I mean—perhaps I’m overthinking the mystery or overestimating the author—that such a solution wouldn’t do justice both to the constellation in the fictional world and to Aoyama’s outstanding capabilities as a writer. Though it doesn’t have to be exactly like this, I feel that it would be far more appropriate to gradually unfold what really caused people to characterize the same person so differently, make Conan realize that and present Rum quickly after. Being rumored to be a an old man because of an kyphotic posture, for example, isn’t satisfactory after so many instances to which several criteria could be applied from my point of view, which—as mentioned—might be too ambitious.

The Department Store Stabbing Case was the best illustration in that respect. If I were the creator, I would probably lay the focus on misunderstandings rather than include one more or less monocular, muscular, long-haired or hunched figure after another. Should Kanenori Wakita prove to be irrelevant, my opinion would be reinforced.

Spoiler:

I wonder if Shiho/Ai will ever give detail to the stories she heard from other BO members about Rum—maybe then, we could piece it together.

Spoiler:

To be honest, that seems like a last resort to me.

Spoiler:

Hence why he should introduce more suspects (and/or officially reveal that those like Heizo, Taka'aki/Koumei and Chikara Katsumata are suspects).

Spoiler:

I agree. Heizo Hattori would certainly be a neat plot twist; if the next case featuring Heiji (and presumably Momiji) takes place in Osaka, the love story could be combined with an appearance of the father.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

Spoiler:

But wouldn't that be the point? For Gosho to have people think Rum wouldn't be introduced like that, and then introduce him just like that?

Spoiler:

Of course, the possibility to introduce a relevant character without any fuss is always there. I like how Aoyama told his readers “By the way, this the boss of the FBI“ when James Black simply entered Jodie’s hospital room after being neglected in the grand finale before.

But I think that this case is different. Compared with earlier parts of the series, this arc is supposed to bring the second-in-command into play, and I doubt that it would be an adequate narrative choice to first establish those conflicting descriptions and then reveal the solution to be someone who looks as if he had only been designed afterward and based on the relatively banal subsumptions that Conan made as soon as in the Kawanakajima Murder Case with regard to Kansuke Yamato.

I mean—perhaps I’m overthinking the mystery or overestimating the author—that such a solution wouldn’t do justice both to the constellation in the fictional world and to Aoyama’s outstanding capabilities as a writer. Though it doesn’t have to be exactly like this, I feel that it would be far more appropriate to gradually unfold what really caused people to characterize the same person so differently, make Conan realize that and present Rum quickly after. Being rumored to be a an old man because of an kyphotic posture, for example, isn’t satisfactory after so many instances to which several criteria could be applied from my point of view, which—as mentioned—might be too ambitious.

The Department Store Stabbing Case was the best illustration in that respect. If I were the creator, I would probably lay the focus on misunderstandings rather than include one more or less monocular, muscular, long-haired or hunched figure after another. Should Kanenori Wakita prove to be irrelevant, my opinion would be reinforced.

Spoiler:

I wonder if Shiho/Ai will ever give detail to the stories she heard from other BO members about Rum—maybe then, we could piece it together.

Spoiler:

To be honest, that seems like a last resort to me.

Spoiler:

Hence why he should introduce more suspects (and/or officially reveal that those like Heizo, Taka'aki/Koumei and Chikara Katsumata are suspects).

Spoiler:

I agree. Heizo Hattori would certainly be a neat plot twist; if the next case featuring Heiji (and presumably Momiji) takes place in Osaka, the love story could be combined with an appearance of the father.

Spoiler:

Yeah, Shinichi's/Conan's been really jumping to conclusions, this arc—like his conclusion that Asaka is Rum.

Maybe Rum is more focused on acting differently, with minimal to no disguise supplement, and that's the source of the conflicting descriptions. Maybe there really could be body doubles involved, as well. Did the members who Shiho/Ai heard from even actually meet Rum, in person, and if so, how many—and what about what Rum was wearing, etc.?

If it's all about this misunderstandings, we've got to determine what they are.

Spoiler:

As in, a potential last piece of evidence?

Spoiler:

Heizo's had only three by-phone appearances (File 518–File 522/Episode 490 and File 833/Episode 711 and File 834/Episode 712) since the Tiger Scroll case (File 317–File 321/Episode 263), so him actually appearing and being more involved than being over the phone is long overdue.

[Nemomon]

Spoiler:

Yeah, Shinichi's/Conan's been really jumping to conclusions, this arc—like his conclusion that Asaka is Rum.

Spoiler:

That too, although it more looks like Conan is a some kind of a paranoid. I mean, even if you heard that one of the crime bosses has one eye left, and walks like an eldery woman, you aren't suspecting every single person you've met, friend or stranger, to be them. But Conan actually suspects everybody to be Rum. Even though the chances of meeting them in real are very slim.

Now, I know that Conan must suspect everybody, and keep mentioning "Rum" here and there, because this is Rum arc, and the readers must know that Conan is still thinking about them, but this shows that Conan isn't a very sane person. Perhaps he is even more insane than Haibara. Perhaps it is just a miracle that he hasn't asked Hattori yet if perhaps his father isn't Rum...