Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[Kor]

14- Wakasa was very smart , She took two pieces of shogi with her. the favorite piece of koji from his pocket of and took the uma piece from his palm so that the BO could not destroy the real dying message , but she left an important guide/clue/evidence for smart investigators instead of the uma piece which she took with her , If we look at the hand mirror that left next to Haneda's corpse , Wakasa had scratched (u) letter of the word (put) on the shape of shogi piece , so that investigators conclude that the missing shogi piece that missed from Haneda's palm is started with (u) and it was definitely the uma piece which she had taken that important evidence as we mentioned for not to be destroyed by BO .

She didn't take two pieces (tiles). The bishop and the promoted bishop are both on the exact same tile. When you promote a piece in shogi, you basically flip the tile upside down where it shows the kanji of the promoted piece.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

This is the best Rum theory I have ever heard and I % agree with it..only minor doubt that you are thinking itakura was developing shogi software which I am not sure of since Rum's idea conception was quite late in the series and it cannot be that Gosho had already thought of Katsumata so early on...rest all I think you are highly accurate

Conan4869
Thank you for adding this friend , happy to know you
Your possibility to talk about the Itakura program and that Goshu did not intend to enter the idea of ​​Rum into this anime also wanted, but I was surprised by that strange coincidence that Itakura is killed by a software engineer for shogi games and Itakura is aimed at making such a program, especially since Karasuma was Mentioned at episode 219 , before Itakura comes, so Goshu may have plans for a Karasuma job or Karasuma's hobby .
That strange coincidence is what surprised me , especially that we and Conan did not even know what was that program, fans need to link the events together .
Friend , I want to know did you expect that Chikara Katsumata is Rum or someone else ? because that theory which I hope will be correct , may not be accepted by many fans who think that Rum is a suspect of the three, but if you think that Chikara is Rum, you will accept it, but I am sure of most of the conclusions found in this theory .

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

14- Wakasa was very smart , She took two pieces of shogi with her. the favorite piece of koji from his pocket of and took the uma piece from his palm so that the BO could not destroy the real dying message , but she left an important guide/clue/evidence for smart investigators instead of the uma piece which she took with her , If we look at the hand mirror that left next to Haneda's corpse , Wakasa had scratched (u) letter of the word (put) on the shape of shogi piece , so that investigators conclude that the missing shogi piece that missed from Haneda's palm is started with (u) and it was definitely the uma piece which she had taken that important evidence as we mentioned for not to be destroyed by BO .

She didn't take two pieces (tiles). The bishop and the promoted bishop are both on the exact same tile. When you promote a piece in shogi, you basically flip the tile upside down where it shows the kanji of the promoted piece.

Forgive me friend I did not understand the purpose of your objection, but I modified the comment so that you know exactly what I mean, I mean that she took this piece which had not any relation with the dying message, but she took it because she knows that this piece is a favorite of her love Haneda Koji , as in file 1052 Amuro said about the statements of Relatives of Haneda Koji that said he used to love this piece and always carry it with him , during the investigation into the Koji case , the police discovered that this piece was the only piece of his personal things that had disappeared .

I have edited that part as following in a little detail so not to misunderstand me as following :
(the favorite piece of koji from his pocket as he always holds it so she wanted to keep it which fell from her pocket and picked up by the amuro at file 1051 chicken farm case), and took also (the uma piece from his palm) .
The second piece (uma) that belongs the message of death because it is also an important evidence .
Did you object to this or i did not understand your intention well from your objection ?

[Zerozaki4869]

You did a tidy job here , but two/three things I do like to point out.

Rumi remembers Haneda's corpse with an open palm, meaning when Rumi went to Haneda's room he already was dead and his palm was opened and the piece was not there. It was most likely a ploy of Kohji killer who realised what was the dying message but also figured out that destroying it would make no sense, (As the piece won't be found at the scene the police will suspect a foul play plus the mark would lead the investigators to treat the missing piece as a dying message and given they already would know what the piece was it would be a fairly easy job.)
So most likely Rumi picked it up from the scene without realising the significance, the bruise in Haneda's palm was just chalked off as a relic of the fight.

The cheating wasn't where he would draw the skulls, it was a rigged game, where the professor gulped the whole/supposed Lemon tea and the kids had no way to figure it out. So if anything the cheating is don't believe what he says, try to unearth every nook and cranny.

Also there is Gosho's own admission that Rum is one of the three suspects and Gosho never lies. he also said Rum is one person, that means there is no chance of having two Rums.

[Conan4869]

This is the best Rum theory I have ever heard and I % agree with it..only minor doubt that you are thinking itakura was developing shogi software which I am not sure of since Rum's idea conception was quite late in the series and it cannot be that Gosho had already thought of Katsumata so early on...rest all I think you are highly accurate

Conan4869
Thank you for adding this friend , happy to know you
Your possibility to talk about the Itakura program and that Goshu did not intend to enter the idea of ​​Rum into this anime also wanted, but I was surprised by that strange coincidence that Itakura is killed by a software engineer for shogi games and Itakura is aimed at making such a program, especially since Karasuma was Mentioned at episode 219 , before Itakura comes, so Goshu may have plans for a Karasuma job or Karasuma's hobby .
That strange coincidence is what surprised me , especially that we and Conan did not even know what was that program, fans need to link the events together .
Friend , I want to know did you expect that Chikara Katsumata is Rum or someone else ? because that theory which I hope will be correct , may not be accepted by many fans who think that Rum is a suspect of the three, but if you think that Chikara is Rum, you will accept it, but I am sure of most of the conclusions found in this theory .

Oh ohk. Intelligent assumption bro.I also from the beginning am thinking Chikara Katsumata is looks too promising to be Rum, while the other Rum suspects seems to be not so much. Rumi from the beginning (and even more with current chapter) seems more potentially to be the Amanda's bodyguard Asaka. Wakita seems more to be a black organization member looking for info while I cannot definitely comment on Kuroda as of now.

[blackmoon]

She didn't take two pieces (tiles). The bishop and the promoted bishop are both on the exact same tile. When you promote a piece in shogi, you basically flip the tile upside down where it shows the kanji of the promoted piece.

Forgive me friend I did not understand the purpose of your objection, but I modified the comment so that you know exactly what I mean, I mean that she took this piece which had not any relation with the dying message, but she took it because she knows that this piece is a favorite of her love Haneda Koji , as in file 1052 Amuro said about the statements of Relatives of Haneda Koji that said he used to love this piece and always carry it with him , during the investigation into the Koji case , the police discovered that this piece was the only piece of his personal things that had disappeared .

I have edited that part as following in a little detail so not to misunderstand me as following :
(the favorite piece of koji from his pocket as he always holds it so she wanted to keep it which fell from her pocket and picked up by the amuro at file 1051 chicken farm case), and took also (the uma piece from his palm) .
The second piece (uma) that belongs the message of death because it is also an important evidence .
Did you object to this or i did not understand your intention well from your objection ?

You did a tidy job here , but two/three things I do like to point out.

Rumi remembers Haneda's corpse with an open palm, meaning when Rumi went to Haneda's room he already was dead and his palm was opened and the piece was not there. It was most likely a ploy of Kohji killer who realised what was the dying message but also figured out that destroying it would make no sense, (As the piece won't be found at the scene the police will suspect a foul play plus the mark would lead the investigators to treat the missing piece as a dying message and given they already would know what the piece was it would be a fairly easy job.)
So most likely Rumi picked it up from the scene without realising the significance, the bruise in Haneda's palm was just chalked off as a relic of the fight.

Also there is Gosho's own admission that Rum is one of the three suspects and Gosho never lies. he also said Rum is one person, that means there is no chance of having two Rums.

Well for your information, a shogi piece has two sides:
"Each piece has its name in the form of two kanji written on its face. On the reverse side of some pieces are one or two other characters, often in a different color (commonly red instead of black); this reverse side is turned up to indicate that the piece has been promoted during play."
So for the shogi piece Bishop 角[行] kaku[gyō] かく[ぎょう] angle mover on the reverse side of the same piece would show the Promoted bishop [竜]馬 uma (ryūma) うま (りゅうま) dragon horse

source from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judkins_shogi

In other words, the shogi piece that Rumi was holding on to was most likely not TWO different shogi pieces but just ONE of the same piece showing different sides of the same one. Now the question one should ask is... if the shogi piece that was held dearly by Kohji was truly used as a dying message and was taken away from Kohji's palm, then which side of that shogi piece was shown as a hint at the time he left it before his death?

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

You did a tidy job here , but two/three things I do like to point out.

Thank you friend, very glad that you got into a discussion and your notes

Rumi remembers Haneda's corpse with an open palm, meaning when Rumi went to Haneda's room he already was dead and his palm was opened and the piece was not there. It was most likely a ploy of Kohji killer who realised what was the dying message but also figured out that destroying it would make no sense, (As the piece won't be found at the scene the police will suspect a foul play plus the mark would lead the investigators to treat the missing piece as a dying message and given they already would know what the piece was it would be a fairly easy job.)
So most likely Rumi picked it up from the scene without realising the significance, the bruise in Haneda's palm was just chalked off as a relic of the fight.

Well done strong note, but I want to tell you that as a fan we should focus on two things :
1- Focus on the message of Haneda Koji’s death and not to the focus of what really happened in the scene of the murder of Haneda Koji , because predicting the syanrio what really happened among those involved is difficult for everyone , but at least we can expect who made Karasuma’s message, and what was Haneda Koji's message.
2- Conan in the main plot or even in ordinary crimes , the wrong person is suspected at the beginning and right at the end, and the most suspected person is often innocent , for example when Conan and Subaru expected that Asaka is Rum , and Yusaku Kudo then modified it and the message was Karasuma , it is a correct message but the problem who made it ??
I did not say that the piece that was in the hand of Haneda Kohji is the uma shogi piece from my imagination, I assumed that because the piece is with Wakasa Rumi and it appeared in file 1008 panel 12 when she exposed the list of APTX list victims , but after you said that Haneda Koji's hand was open when Wakasa Rumi arrived , you made me really thinking about your assumption and making a simple modification, before Goshu reveals to us what really happened at the Haneda Koji murder scene, he will make hints for us or Conan in the ordinary cases and then Goshu will reveal what really happened at the end of the Arc , so your assumption is that when Wakasa arrived The palm of Haneda Koji's hand open, it made me add a simple modification , first Haneda Koji killer took the piece from palm of Kohji in order to destroy the crime scene because it is strange that in the hands of Koji there is a shogi piece under the scissors so the killer knew that Koji wanted to hint about something if the fight ended with his death in the end , the killer was surprised after killing Kohji that Kohji caught that piece and the killer took it from him but Wakasa Rumi fight with the murderer and took the piece from him as she did with Amoru in the last chapter 1054 , so Wakasa Rumi fight with the killer and took the piece from him , as not to clean up the crime scene as usual members of the BO always do and detroy evidences and make the crime scene as nothing happen , Amuro said that there is a shogi piece which Kohji loved and always took it with him , this piece now is Wakasa , but she had another shogi piece (uma) as we saw in file 1008 panel 12 , so i think the uma has relation with the real message of Kohji and Wakasa rumi took it as an important evidence indicating name of the real killer , if you saw the poster of Movie 20 You will find that Conan riding on a horse , which may be a hint from Goshu about the (uma) piece .

The cheating wasn't where he would draw the skulls, it was a rigged game, where the professor gulped the whole/supposed Lemon tea and the kids had no way to figure it out. So if anything the cheating is don't believe what he says, try to unearth every nook and cranny.

I know that Agasa was cheating them when he said that he drank a cup of tea with lemon but it was vinegar but I try to abbreviate as much as possible so as not to go on too long , I mean that it was generally a hint from Goshu that there is a trick in this Arc generally, and that there is a fourth suspect hidden Just like the fourth dish that do not have a skull shape , but it was not imagined to us that he is suspected of Rum with the other three , because moving of the three makes you say that Rum is not one of them , but if Chikara Katsumata is next to these three to us as a fourth suspect , all the fans will sure that Rum is Chikara , what Goshu does not want , of course , because as expected , Goshu will hide Rum from the eyes of All as he did with the boss

Also there is Gosho's own admission that Rum is one of the three suspects and Gosho never lies. he also said Rum is one person, that means there is no chance of having two Rums.

I do not say that Goshu is lying, but he is the author of a mysterious anime, and he has the right to mislead fans. This is normal, but the reader is right to suspect everyone and what will happen in Arc is expected, because Arc Vermouth was only one suspect and she is Judy , In arc Burboun three suspects and Burboun is one of them , in Arc RUM as I expect , will be three suspects and Rum is not one of them . I don't think Goshu will repeat what he did in Arc Bourboun, that Wakita is Rum, and I don't think Wakasa is Rum either, nor Kuroda .

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Oh ohk. Intelligent assumption bro.I also from the beginning am thinking Chikara Katsumata is looks too promising to be Rum, while the other Rum suspects seems to be not so much. Rumi from the beginning (and even more with current chapter) seems more potentially to be the Amanda's bodyguard Asaka. Wakita seems more to be a black organization member looking for info while I cannot definitely comment on Kuroda as of now.

Thank you friend
I also assumed that Wakasa is Asaka .
Wakita assumed that he was following Gin to investigate Mori Kogoro , his eye also may be not missed nor prosthetic , just a boil or ulcer .
Kuroda is the boss of Amoru in the NPA , and I expect that he is the father of Haneda Koji because he looks like him in the face, hair, and even glasses .
Could Kuroda really be Haneda Koji's father, or what do you think , friend ?

[andi2ews]

Also there is Gosho's own admission that Rum is one of the three suspects and Gosho never lies. he also said Rum is one person, that means there is no chance of having two Rums.

Wakita is probably Chikara Katsumata undercover. there are really many similarities in their behaviors (ex. both put their arms folded when they're thinking). And although this will be a good revelation, I would not appreciate that the second in command of the BO ridicule himself in this way to gather information (disguise himself as that cook). it would be degrading for him

[Zerozaki4869]

Thank you friend, very glad that you got into a discussion and your notes

Nothing big, You're just trying to asses other avenues while staying mostly true to the source material. That's something commendable.

On the shogi piece, I don't think Rumi had fought against the killer, cause that seems sort of unlikely. The way Rumi was eager to retrieve the Shogi piece, plus how the crack mark aligned with the original piece that Haneda had, it's most likely the real deal.

But here we are faced with a contradiction, Rumi's memory of the Kohji's corpse is exactly the same memory that Yumi, Mary, Amuro recalls.

So why did the piece end up with Rumi despite the Rumi remembering Kohji with an open palm?

The answer is the killer figured out the dying message but couldn't get the piece, he could have just pocketed it and later destroyed it.
The answer to this contradiction is the killer knew that even if he takes out the piece, those close to Haneda would surely realise that the piece was a vital clue hence taken away from the scene, given Kohji was participating in a chess tournament so the substitution by another Shogi piece won't even be possible.

So, my solution is the killer realised that taking it with him would serve no purpose as then just by being absent the piece would prove its significance.
So the killer took it and dropped it among the debris so that it doesn't come off as a dying message, Rumi has picked it up.

Wakita is probably Chikara Katsumata undercover. there are really many similarities in their behaviors (ex. both put their arms folded when they're thinking). And although this will be a good revelation, I would not appreciate that the second in command of the BO ridicule himself in this way to gather information (disguise himself as that cook). it would be degrading for him

Not likely, but in this world of possibility it can have a 0.5% chance.

[andi2ews]

Wakita is probably Chikara Katsumata undercover. there are really many similarities in their behaviors (ex. both put their arms folded when they're thinking). And although this will be a good revelation, I would not appreciate that the second in command of the BO ridicule himself in this way to gather information (disguise himself as that cook). it would be degrading for him

Not likely, but in this world of possibility it can have a 0.5% chance.

so, explain why.

[Zerozaki4869]

Wakita is probably Chikara Katsumata undercover. there are really many similarities in their behaviors (ex. both put their arms folded when they're thinking). And although this will be a good revelation, I would not appreciate that the second in command of the BO ridicule himself in this way to gather information (disguise himself as that cook). it would be degrading for him

Not likely, but in this world of possibility it can have a 0.5% chance.

so, explain why.

Well, Chikara Katsumata is a professional Shogi player. He needs to practise, teach his students, participate in tournaments and at the same time he needs to punch in 8 hours of work as Kanenori Wakita.

So this all in a nutshell weakens the theory enough.

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Well for your information, a shogi piece has two sides:
"Each piece has its name in the form of two kanji written on its face. On the reverse side of some pieces are one or two other characters, often in a different color (commonly red instead of black); this reverse side is turned up to indicate that the piece has been promoted during play."
So for the shogi piece Bishop 角[行] kaku[gyō] かく[ぎょう] angle mover on the reverse side of the same piece would show the Promoted bishop [竜]馬 uma (ryūma) うま (りゅうま) dragon horse

source from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judkins_shogi

In other words, the shogi piece that Rumi was holding on to was most likely not TWO different shogi pieces but just ONE of the same piece showing different sides of the same one. Now the question one should ask is... if the shogi piece that was held dearly by Kohji was truly used as a dying message and was taken away from Kohji's palm, then which side of that shogi piece was shown as a hint at the time he left it before his death?

I apologize to you , my information in Shogi is very little, I did not understand very well what you want to say, but I feel that you want to build me on something very important, what I understood from you is that you want to say that the piece that with Wakasa Rumi that Haneda Koji loved it , and (uma) shogi piece in real one shogi piece not two and that one has two sides ?? Is that what you mean or do I still not understand you well ?
But if you really mean that , this will be a good addition to the conclusion, so we will say that Wakasa took one piece not two pieces , and we will also say that Koji used the piece which he loved as a death message but he meant the side which refers to uma word not the other side ?
What do you think ??

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

so, explain why.

Well, Chikara Katsumata is a professional Shogi player. He needs to practise, teach his students, participate in tournaments and at the same time he needs to punch in 8 hours of work as Kanenori Wakita.

I agree with you ZeroZaki in the reasons that indicate Chikara Katsumata is not Wakita Kaninori, and this is clear from Wakita's strange behavior , his words to Bourbon about traitors , go to Professor Agasa's house during the day and ask him about his neighbors, if one of his eye is artificial and puts an eye patch on it . This patch is very clear and his behaviour , as if he is saying Iam Rum to bourbon or any member of the BO wha heard about RUM eye .
But Rum, which we know is not like this, and not a person who do missions , but giving orders and is completely hidden from the eyes of everyone and also eyes of the
BO low ranking members To a degree that they have heard many descriptions about him , Rum also speaks with the members and sends orders to them through SMS .
For Wakita , I honestly do not accept that he is Rum , especially with the word time is money that translates to Wakita Kaninori , first this is an easy hint from Goshu and this is not Goshu's habit , secondly Rum is not foolish to write his personal name to any low ranking member .
As for similar postures between Chiakara and Wakita , I see this normal and do not indicate anything .

[Mohamed Ebrahem]

Nothing big, You're just trying to asses other avenues while staying mostly true to the source material. That's something commendable.
On the shogi piece, I don't think Rumi had fought against the killer, cause that seems sort of unlikely. The way Rumi was eager to retrieve the Shogi piece, plus how the crack mark aligned with the original piece that Haneda had, it's most likely the real deal.
But here we are faced with a contradiction, Rumi's memory of the Kohji's corpse is exactly the same memory that Yumi, Mary, Amuro recalls.
So why did the piece end up with Rumi despite the Rumi remembering Kohji with an open palm?
The answer is the killer figured out the dying message but couldn't get the piece, he could have just pocketed it and later destroyed it.
The answer to this contradiction is the killer knew that even if he takes out the piece, those close to Haneda would surely realise that the piece was a vital clue hence taken away from the scene, given Kohji was participating in a chess tournament so the substitution by another Shogi piece won't even be possible.
So, my solution is the killer realised that taking it with him would serve no purpose as then just by being absent the piece would prove its significance.
So the killer took it and dropped it among the debris so that it doesn't come off as a dying message, Rumi has picked it up.

Your words are logical, but I see that Rum would not leave a shogi piece after he noticed that Haneda was holding it in his hand under the scissors , RUM realised that Haneda was referring to him as the murderer , after Goshu wrote the last chapter 1054 and Wakasa Rumi fought with Bourbon, I think This is a hint from Goshu that the piece was in the possession of Rum or the killer at the beginning and after it , Wakasa had a fight with him and recovered the piece so that Rum would not get rid of it or manipulate the crime scene in any case , then Wakasa had scratched the shape of a shogi piece on the letter (u) in the word (put) to attract Investigators What was the side of the shogi piece that Haneda was referring to in his dying message , your words about Rum had left the piece with debris is logic but members of BO either to leave the crime scene as nothing happen or get rid of the evidences that refer to them .
The exact scenario that occurred is very difficult to predict .
But the last manga series of Chicken farm was important for Goshu to write before taking an Indefinitely rest , For me this series solved some mysterious points in the Haneda Koji case : 1- the person who made the mirror message referring to Karasuma is Wakasa Rumi because she talked about him in chapter 1051 as she knew him personally and had been a former Bo agent , Wakasa Rumi also carries a shogi piece from the crime scene , which indicates that she was there at the time and her writing of Karasuma’s message became very logical. 2- piece of shogi at first be with RUM then Wakasa took it from him as she did with Bourbon .
The image of Haneda Koji in imagination of Yumi , Mary and Bourbon is not a problem for me as they read about that case from the site , as Conan read about it with Haibara and Agasa in the Agasa house .