Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 2:58 am
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 12:03 am
Well Mohamed, I would rather posit a scenario infront of you.
Let's have a thought experiment,
Let's say the person who attacked and assaulted Kohji might not be the one who fed him APTX to ensure his death........
so I think the two people who belong to the organization at that time were Rum and Asaka in order to assassinate Amanda if they intended it from the beginning or an emergency order happened that forced them to kill her , but Rum for some reason had killed Kohji , which is Unexpected behavior for Asaka because Koji is her lover , so she turned against them just as Haibara turned against the organization when they killed her sister .
Actually, I've been thinking about this. The thing is that, I find it most suitable in theory, that Asaka = Rumi, an ex-BO-agent working under Rum, like Curacao in Darkest Nightmare. A similarity to this technique, is Sera Masumi. As Gosho previouslly imprisoned a tomboyish detective girl, and inspired to create Masumi. The same might happen with Curacao, as she is a movie original, Gosho may have been influenced by her role, and integrated the role of Asaka as a rebelious agent. Hence, I might say, Asaca/Rum's right hand, doubted killing Kouji. And tried to protect him from Rum. Therefore we have the messy room, and Asaka (if Rumi) received a heavy blow (resulting in the eye problem). And then did Rum try to attack Kouji, who was busy cutting the glass. After force feeding Kouji the APTX, did Rum notice Asaka woke up and escaped. Hence his 'fault'. Making sense why Asaka/Rumi, has access to APTX list + the name she adopted to draw attention, to lure BO to light. And her animosity towards Bourbon taking her Shogi piece, may be due to either she knows he is in BO, or she knows his boss Kuroda or both. However, Kuroda did meet her, and logic dictates that he should be quick about taking actions against her, if he is Rum and is facing his ex-subordinate. Thus, I tend to sway towards thinking that Kuroda knows about Rumi=Wakasa, and about BO, but he is on the good side, and not Rum. Leaving Wakita Kanenori, as a valid Rum candidate. He might still be nearly as good as Vermouth in disguise, and his true appearance is unknown, while Rumi is a public figure (through the newspapers), and requires to deliver identity to work in school. Kuroda (a superintendent, requires official documents/history and social number). While Wakita is working as a temporary restaurant worker, where I doubt they ask for his identity forms. Plus, I think that out of the three, Wakita is the most oblivious to the fact Conan is behind Kogoru.

I also think, while he is exceedingly impatient. His message to Bourbon; Toki Wa Kanenari, has a double meaning. Other than telling him to be quick, he is in fact telling Bourbon about his fake ID's name to help him on the field whenever they meet. Bourbon was attacked by Rumi, is ordered officially by Hyoue, and partnered with Wakita. If Rum = Rum, they wouldn't attack Bourbon, instead the'd order him to give it back, or use a different agent to retreive it than risk cover. If Kurdoa = Rum, he'd know every Bourbon's move, and bourbon's true allegiance. If he is Wakita, then it would make sense that he uses Bourbon to validate his cover, to easily get close to Kogoro who has ties to Shinichi and quickly make a bondage with the Mouris using Bourbon to come closer to investigating Shinichi. Remember how he immediately gave an order meant for someone else to Agasa following a press coverage on Shinichi's status, providing more showcase to his impatience..
Zerozaki4869

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Image

This sort of indicates that Pre-coma Kuroda(unswapped) possibly did something to earn Rumi's wrath.
Rumi thinks this Kuroda was the one one who had earned her wrath but realises that he is someone else hence the curiosity.

Image

Here on the left is the scenario during camping ground case but on right that is a similar scenario during the Detective's nocturne case. During that case Haibara was triggered and she realised that Subaru wasn't the trigger as it was coming from the back, hence it was Amuro. But Amuro never saw her directly wasn't even paying any attention on her. So this only proves the person closest to Haibara isn't necessarily the source of the trigger.


Image
These two panels compare the difference of Haibara's reactions about when Subaru approached the culprit from the Ikkaku rocks case and when Rumi approached the culprit from camping ground case. Rumi didn't trigger Haibara but Subaru did trigger her. Now Haibara was already triggered once so the argument of unreliability also won't make any sense

Regarding the APTX list on Rumi's laptop, an APTX list can be screen-shotted, scanned, made into a pdf by the various spies infiltrating BO. In our case I think NPA has provided it to Rumi. Could be CIA/Kir also.
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

I am tempted to put forth my speculation on this Kohji case.
There are two assumptions I am making.
1) Rumi is not RUM.
-this is obvious in the way she is potrayed as a red hearing character based on her actions.
2) Kuroda is not RUM.
-this mostly stems from the panel where he is shown calling Amuro as Bourbon. This heavily hints as a red hearing and that he is the NPA/PSB boss or something like that.

User Mohamed has posted a good possible plot scenario. I would like to build up on that. He says that Kuroda and Rumi were assigned to the same job. And Kuroda killed Kohji which is why Rumi is mad at him (because Khoji is her lover).
Now let's say that Rumi and Kuroda were both NPA officers 17 years ago when the incident happened.
Say, they were assigned to investigate on to Amanda. So Amanda was their target(mostly because she had some ties with the black org).
So Rumi disguising as Asaca bodyguard and getting closer to Amanda comes naturally.
Now say Rumi uses the idea of using Kohji (her boyfriend) as a bait to lure Amanda. Of course this all happens with Kuroda's consent and all. ( Lure as in a situation where Kuroda can make his appearance).
So on the day of the meeting between Kohji and Amanda, Kuroda is also in the scene waiting secretly ( maybe not to ambush or anything but for reasons unknown). But there comes a unknown element (RUM?) who disrupts everything. A fistfight occurs (between Asaca and that unknown element maybe).
But Kuroda is somehow oblivious to all this as he is fixated on his NPA mission target Amanda, to the point that he is not aware of Kohji getting killed.
This would explain the animosity of Rum towards Kuroda.
Maybe that's why she moved out of NPA and decided to look into the matter herself.

I know that there are lot of inconsistencies but this is a speculation. Largely inspired by the panel that Zerozaki4869 posted about Rumi saying, "My it can almost be said that you were so caught up in trying to observe someone, that you failed to notice the tent engulfed in hellfire next to you."
This might be referring to the situation from 17 years ago. Just felt like a possible plot scenario.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 3:10 am
No, Mohamed, I might not have worded it correctly,

What if we have X( a non BO actor) and Y( a BO agent) both having a motive to kill Kohji. X beats Y in the game but leaves the room in an utter mess, when Y comes in Y feeds the APTX to Kohji to ensure that Kohji dies.

Given the lack of blood in Kuroda's kohji case recollections, I do find it highly likely that Kuroda has seen the corpse before Rumi had seen it. So Kuroda could be at the very best someone who APTXed Kohji to ensure his death, at the very least some 3rd party who came to Kohji's room before Rumi discovered the corpse. Now the second looks a bit stretched, cause of the lack of blood.

So Kuroda could be Rum, but there is a chance that someone else did in Kohji first and then Kuroda fed him APTX to finish him off, that's my current stance.
I don't expect that , ZeroZaki
Haibara said the confirmed description in Rum is one of his eye is artificial .
Goshu said that himself on the cover of Chapter 988 , so the eye is artificial and is not lost. This is the simplest evidence to get Kuroda out of the list of suspects .
Kuroda , looks at Haneda Koji's case a lot as if he is trying to solve the mystery , he expected the message is refering to "Wakasa Rumi" not to "Karasuma" , if Kuroda was the killer who poisoned Haneda , why did he go to meet Wakaasa Rumi in the tent case .
What you say between what happened with the two people x and y is a coincidence which would be very strange on that night in a hotel in America . what is Asaka's role in this situation , who took the piece and how the person who struck Koji in The beginning did not kill him and Koji referred to him in his letter although he has not yet died .
I remember that you previously said that Conan believed that Kuroda was not a harmful person or he was far from being suspected of being Rum for Conan .
I do not think that Amoru will tell Kuroda about Conan , is the secret behind Mori Kogoro's fame with this simplicity unless Kuroda is a trusted person , I don't know if Amoru knows Rum's identity or not, I wouldn't be surprised if he knew Rum personally , for me Kuroda is completely Against the Black organization .
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 3:02 am
mohamed. very good points.
the inspector from ripples looks similar to chikara but their
eyelids are different. gosho draws eyelids first so why they are different .
in fact if you look eyelids and slanting eyebrows both
looks like hyoue kuroda.
and guess what that ripples case is 10 years ago.
same time as hyoue kuroda accident.
and hishair were black before accident
something looks fishy.
only unexplucable thing looks height difference.
between two
Well vaibhavgupte
As for comparing the eyebrow of the inspector and the eyebrow of a Chikara Or something else in appearance .
Shogi players appear on TV and in front of all people , so they care about their appearance and always carry a mirror as Haibara said refering to Haneda Kohji's mirror .
When you are just an inspector, not like when you are a famous shogi player , so I expect that Chikara performed plastic surgery and led to some change in his appearance as football players do , by operations on their face and change some of their shape .
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 3:53 am
Actually, I've been thinking about this. The thing is that, I find it most suitable in theory, that Asaka = Rumi, an ex-BO-agent working under Rum, like Curacao in Darkest Nightmare. A similarity to this technique, is Sera Masumi. As Gosho previouslly imprisoned a tomboyish detective girl, and inspired to create Masumi. The same might happen with Curacao, as she is a movie original, Gosho may have been influenced by her role, and integrated the role of Asaka as a rebelious agent. Hence, I might say, Asaca/Rum's right hand, doubted killing Kouji. And tried to protect him from Rum. Therefore we have the messy room, and Asaka (if Rumi) received a heavy blow (resulting in the eye problem). And then did Rum try to attack Kouji, who was busy cutting the glass. After force feeding Kouji the APTX, did Rum notice Asaka woke up and escaped. Hence his 'fault'. Making sense why Asaka/Rumi, has access to APTX list + the name she adopted to draw attention, to lure BO to light. And her animosity towards Bourbon taking her Shogi piece, may be due to either she knows he is in BO, or she knows his boss Kuroda or both. However, Kuroda did meet her, and logic dictates that he should be quick about taking actions against her, if he is Rum and is facing his ex-subordinate. Thus, I tend to sway towards thinking that Kuroda knows about Rumi=Wakasa, and about BO, but he is on the good side, and not Rum. Leaving Wakita Kanenori, as a valid Rum candidate. He might still be nearly as good as Vermouth in disguise, and his true appearance is unknown, while Rumi is a public figure (through the newspapers), and requires to deliver identity to work in school. Kuroda (a superintendent, requires official documents/history and social number). While Wakita is working as a temporary restaurant worker, where I doubt they ask for his identity forms. Plus, I think that out of the three, Wakita is the most oblivious to the fact Conan is behind Kogoru.

I also think, while he is exceedingly impatient. His message to Bourbon; Toki Wa Kanenari, has a double meaning. Other than telling him to be quick, he is in fact telling Bourbon about his fake ID's name to help him on the field whenever they meet. Bourbon was attacked by Rumi, is ordered officially by Hyoue, and partnered with Wakita. If Rum = Rum, they wouldn't attack Bourbon, instead the'd order him to give it back, or use a different agent to retreive it than risk cover. If Kurdoa = Rum, he'd know every Bourbon's move, and bourbon's true allegiance. If he is Wakita, then it would make sense that he uses Bourbon to validate his cover, to easily get close to Kogoro who has ties to Shinichi and quickly make a bondage with the Mouris using Bourbon to come closer to investigating Shinichi. Remember how he immediately gave an order meant for someone else to Agasa following a press coverage on Shinichi's status, providing more showcase to his impatience..
I agree with you about what you said about Wakasa Rumi's identity and her action to get the shogi piece back to her from Bourbon , but my difference with you about Wakita's identity
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Reader wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 2:07 pm

User Mohamed has posted a good possible plot scenario. I would like to build up on that. He says that Kuroda and Rumi were assigned to the same job. And Kuroda killed Kohji which is why Rumi is mad at him (because Khoji is her lover).
Now let's say that Rumi and Kuroda were both NPA officers 17 years ago when the incident happened.
I didn't say that Kuroda killed Kohji
I say that Chikara is Rum and he is the killer , the real Kohji message refers to the name of Chikara Katsumata .
Wakasa Rumi as you said , was Asaka and Kohji's love .
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

mohamed.
the only point due to which i dont think that inspector is chikara is that his eyeballs. gosho draws a characters eyeballs first to give unique identity.
remember subaru okiya eyes were closed to hide eyeballs.
eyeballs tell identity.
chikara and that inspector eyeballs are completely different.
inspectors eyeballs look to me like kuroda or even kanenori.
I agree voice of inspector and chikara is same, but kuroda voice is very similar to chikaram so hard to distinguish.
also if chikara went through surgery physical structure should change but it is same only eyes are different.
any reason why only eyeballs are different ?
also there is possibility that kuroda swapped body with someone as many have pointed. then the swapped body could be chikara and one of them is rum
Zerozaki4869

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Kuroda , looks at Haneda Koji's case a lot as if he is trying to solve the mystery
But his recollection of Kohji's body lacked the blood pooling under his mouth.
he expected the message is refering to "Wakasa Rumi"
Anybody who is invested heavily in that case would do that. I would rather say he was intrigued by Wakasa Rumi referring the ``Carasuma message.`` Coincidentally no BO movement had happened.....
what is Asaka's role in this situation
Maybe Rum/Rum's accomplice.
I don't think Rumi is Asaka.......
what is Asaka's role in this situation
Kuroda mentioned the rumours about Conan floating in NPA.
I remember that you previously said that Conan believed that Kuroda was not a harmful person or he was far from being suspected of being Rum for Conan
Absolutely, but nothing implies that he isn't Rum......

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneTruthPrevai ... da_theory/
https://www.reddit.com/r/OneTruthPrevai ... mi_theory/
https://www.reddit.com/r/OneTruthPrevai ... ta_theory/
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

those who think kanenori is not rum?
any guess on who kanenori could be.
my logical flow is:
the most heavy yaiba hint : avisor to enemy boss.
now if he is not rum then only chance for him to
advisor is to be number three .
and here comes nagano snowy mountains clue.
kansuke asks about amuro and wakita.
amuro says im number one apprentice
and wakita says im number two apprentice.
now many people concluded that this number two hinted he is rum. but also possible he is number two apprentice.
i.e. number three .
the only contradiction to this is in detective conan wiki
I read gin is number three but nowhere in manga
I could find mention. only mention is rum is number two
and he is higher than gin. gin could be number four or five.
plz tell if there is mention of gin as number three.
now if we accept him to be number three (or between rum and gin)
only reason of him being in story is there is something
more to his identity otherwise why even gosho would
create new bo agent.
this idemtity could be rat.
he looks like rat. lol. this is hint.
now why introduce another rat?
only possible explanation is he is someone related
to story so far. which only could be tsutomu.
what I want to tell is that if kanenori isnt rum then high chance he is tsutomu ( again high chance of tsutomu being biggest bo rat).
the only pther chance which is possibility of kanenori is that
(i like this the most) is that he could be a common person
interested in mysteries and thus in meitantei kogoro
. this possinility is not possible for other rum suspects.
coz he has not uttered any concrete thing about main plot
like rumi and hyoue.
this looks copy paste of bourbon arc and wakita may end up
another rat i.e. tsutomu.
why i think tsutomu has more chance as kanenori is:
1) the episode he is introduced is immediate next to tsutomu.
2) he is curious like tsutomu.
3) uses lot of phrases like tsutomu again although hasnt used any common phrase yet.
4) the hat he wears in nagano case resembles tsutomus hat.
5) he bends his legs hence height is taller like tsutomu.
(tsutomu should be tall like akai)
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

well another wakita possibility is wakita maybe atsushi miyano.
1)his voice actor is shigeru chiba, mentor of
megumi hayashibara. (ai haibara voice actor)
2)also interested in chemistry lol.
3)and sushi in his name. lol.
4)he also looks like atsushi .blue hair. and spectacles
5)he hasnt met haibara.
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 8:58 pm
Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 3:53 am
Actually, I've been thinking about this. The thing is that, I find it most suitable in theory, that Asaka = Rumi, an ex-BO-agent working under Rum, like Curacao in Darkest Nightmare. A similarity to this technique, is Sera Masumi. As Gosho previouslly imprisoned a tomboyish detective girl, and inspired to create Masumi. The same might happen with Curacao, as she is a movie original, Gosho may have been influenced by her role, and integrated the role of Asaka as a rebelious agent. Hence, I might say, Asaca/Rum's right hand, doubted killing Kouji. And tried to protect him from Rum. Therefore we have the messy room, and Asaka (if Rumi) received a heavy blow (resulting in the eye problem). And then did Rum try to attack Kouji, who was busy cutting the glass. After force feeding Kouji the APTX, did Rum notice Asaka woke up and escaped. Hence his 'fault'. Making sense why Asaka/Rumi, has access to APTX list + the name she adopted to draw attention, to lure BO to light. And her animosity towards Bourbon taking her Shogi piece, may be due to either she knows he is in BO, or she knows his boss Kuroda or both. However, Kuroda did meet her, and logic dictates that he should be quick about taking actions against her, if he is Rum and is facing his ex-subordinate. Thus, I tend to sway towards thinking that Kuroda knows about Rumi=Wakasa, and about BO, but he is on the good side, and not Rum. Leaving Wakita Kanenori, as a valid Rum candidate. He might still be nearly as good as Vermouth in disguise, and his true appearance is unknown, while Rumi is a public figure (through the newspapers), and requires to deliver identity to work in school. Kuroda (a superintendent, requires official documents/history and social number). While Wakita is working as a temporary restaurant worker, where I doubt they ask for his identity forms. Plus, I think that out of the three, Wakita is the most oblivious to the fact Conan is behind Kogoru.

I also think, while he is exceedingly impatient. His message to Bourbon; Toki Wa Kanenari, has a double meaning. Other than telling him to be quick, he is in fact telling Bourbon about his fake ID's name to help him on the field whenever they meet. Bourbon was attacked by Rumi, is ordered officially by Hyoue, and partnered with Wakita. If Rum = Rum, they wouldn't attack Bourbon, instead the'd order him to give it back, or use a different agent to retreive it than risk cover. If Kurdoa = Rum, he'd know every Bourbon's move, and bourbon's true allegiance. If he is Wakita, then it would make sense that he uses Bourbon to validate his cover, to easily get close to Kogoro who has ties to Shinichi and quickly make a bondage with the Mouris using Bourbon to come closer to investigating Shinichi. Remember how he immediately gave an order meant for someone else to Agasa following a press coverage on Shinichi's status, providing more showcase to his impatience..
I agree with you about what you said about Wakasa Rumi's identity and her action to get the shogi piece back to her from Bourbon , but my difference with you about Wakita's identity
Well, according to Gosho, in one of his interviews. Rum is definitely one of the three (Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita), I did and still somewhat skeptical of Muga Iroi's character and involvement with Rum. So unless, Gosho is lying, or your proposal of a different person (that must be disguising as one of the three), there's a big contradiction, if you agree with me on Wakasa, that leaves you with either Kuroda or Wakita as Rum, otherwise you are contradicting Gosho's statement, unless he is lying, which I highly doubt..
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dccd

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by dccd »

Or its a trap.

(a wordplay/trickery/cheat - which technically isnt a lie)
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 3:46 am
Well, according to Gosho, in one of his interviews. Rum is definitely one of the three (Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita), I did and still somewhat skeptical of Muga Iroi's character and involvement with Rum. So unless, Gosho is lying, or your proposal of a different person (that must be disguising as one of the three), there's a big contradiction, if you agree with me on Wakasa, that leaves you with either Kuroda or Wakita as Rum, otherwise you are contradicting Gosho's statement, unless he is lying, which I highly doubt..
The four dishes , Agasa 's puzzle at the beginning of the Arc and the deception done by Agasa . I think it is a hint from Goshu that there will be a trick in this Arc . In my opinion, I see that Katsumata is well suited for the fourth dish that does not contain skull drawings , but the cup on it contains vinegar . As for Goshu’s reply when he said that Rum is one of the three , I don’t think if there was a fourth hidden suspect that Goshu would answer that question clearly , so Rum is really among the suspects but there are four suspects and not three , three appearing in front of us and one disappeared .
And this won't mean that Gouchu is a liar , he is an author of an mysterious anime . Therefore, he has the right to trick or cheat , and the reader has the right to suspect everyone .
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

dccd wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 10:45 am
Or its a trap.
(a wordplay/trickery/cheat - which technically isnt a lie)
Yes, I think that , and there are hints too , like Professor Agasa’s deception in the beginning of the arc and the 4 dishes , one of them doesn't have Skull drawing . But my difference with you , the identity of this fourth person , to me is Chikara or let me say "Karasuma" . I consider we are in arc "Karasuma", not Arc "Rum" as Goshu explained to us that the main suspect will be Rum , but I think he is Karasuma and his BO code name is Rum .
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