learn to tell the difference between speculation and fact.Zerozaki4869 wrote:Like the glass shard? I saw you disagreeing with yourself all the time.
Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
- MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
You said statements. Though a speculation is also a statement.MeiTanteixX wrote:I actually prefer to agree, so that I don't have to do the dirty work...Zerozaki4869 wrote:But you'll disagree because You want to disagree, end of the story.
But I can never agree to faulty/baseless statements ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's why I said I witnessed your internal tribulations on discord.
- blackmoon
Posts: 266
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Well the mystery of why Rumi has access to the password to BO's APTX victim list is yet to be revealed. As well as the reason why she has been keeping a shogi piece close by seen held in her pants pocket and on her desk table. If it were just a regular shogi piece, I assume there is no need for Rumi to hold on to it so tightly and to keep it close by even if it were something meant to be kept as a memoir? Anyways, I cannot speculate more on something that is not yet revealed, and the significance of Rumi's shogi piece is not yet revealed.Zerozaki4869 wrote:No, first get the shogi shaped pill case of Haneda Kohji, only then I'll share my thoughts with you, eh??

Speaking of baseless speculations... What are the chances that Elena did not actually die in the fire from years ago, and actually survived and went into hiding? It was never really confirmed with certainty that she died as it is impossible to distinguish the identity of a burned body. What if Rumi is actually Elena in disguise? They are both female, they both have long hair, they both wear glasses, they both have similar cheekbone and facial features, and they both worked for the BO, so they both know about APTX. Could the reappearance of Elena back in the story be a red-herring of her return from the dead?

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Last edited by Spimer on November 3rd, 2018, 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged all 3 posts into one, hid images in spoiler tag to save up space
Reason: Merged all 3 posts into one, hid images in spoiler tag to save up space
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu)

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Not to mention that dying hair and changing glasses is one of the quickest, simplest ways to change a person's face both IRL and in fiction... Even the eyes are very diamond-shaped when compared with other characters.
- MeiTanteixX
Posts: 1307
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
"Rumi = Vermouth" Theory Summary
(Link to future updates)
In-universe hints about Rumi fitting with Vermouth:
1. Rumi knows of Conan's competence as a detective and is always watchful of him. (File 966-968) [Vermouth knows his competence and views him highly]
2. Rumi is really good at acting clumsy/innocent/shy/scared, to the point that even Conan/Haibara never noticed. (File 966-968, 978) [Vermouth is a star actress]
3. Rumi has shown a very questionable morality and conflicting sides:
- Grinning while showing a ruthless side in a blood-thirsty manner when all eyes of the relevant people are not on her (File 968, 989). Smirking at the chance of using a potential murder to further her goals (File 978) [Vermouth has at least 20 years of underworld exposure and killing experience]- Showing empathy and tears for Ayumi to an extent that sways Haibara from her suspicion (File 989) [File 459: Vermouth left a strong positive effect on Teitan that made Araide question if she is a bad person]
4. Rumi triggered Haibara's BO-sense (File 978) [only alive female who has done that as far as we know is Vermouth, just like Akai for the male equivalent during Subaru's triggering]
5. Rumi is shown to have BO intel access and interest in APTX victims (File 1005) [File 823: Vermouth has a clearly portrayed goal to get rid of/hide APTX victims who survived due to shrinking and is high-ranked enough in the BO to get access to APTX victim list]
6. Rumi has shown interest in Agasa's gadgets & his next-door neighbor (File 966, File 1006) [File 955-956: Vermouth showed interest and suspicion towards Agasa's current neighbor Subaru, who uses the voice-changing choker on a daily basis, and found out from Bourbon that he is Agasa's next-door neighbor]
potentially relevant foreshadowings/setups by Gosho:
1. Haibara not being able to react immediately to Vermouth's presence anymore (File 852/856) [This makes it possible for Vermouth to be utilized as a "new character"(in disguise) who is around Haibara without constantly putting her on edge and being suspected as BO]
2. DB seeing Subaru's choker (File 898) [potential setup to Rumi finding out about that gadget through DB, who she keeps involving herself with]
3. Vermouth's disguise being mistaken for Kid's (File 958), and right before Rumi's intro:- previous case (Kid case), focuses on Subaru and the danger of his choker getting exposed (File 965)- Rumi intro, DB talks about Kid-level disguises (File 966)
4. "My favorite is Whiskey" (File 967) ["whiskey" possibly hinting to "Rye", who she is potentially investigating, and a parallel to Jodie's favorite drink "Sherry", who she was investigating (File 343)]
5. Acting(Ikkyu role-playing) & Disguise(Golfer) theme in the 2nd Rumi-centered case [potential easter eggs to Vermouth's main skills]
6. Rumi-Subaru parallels (potential foreshadowing to Rumi's future development being similar to Subaru's):
- Rumi going through the reverse of Haibara suspecting Subaru and Conan supporting him (File 624/989)- Saving Ayumi from culprit using their skills/experience/knowledge (File 666/989) [Subaru: dealing with crime, Rumi: killing]
7. Fukamachi(Butler) head turns and Kogoro reaction to strengthened glasses paralleling Rumi's head turns and bumping reaction (File 1009-1010 / 966/988) [potential foreshadowing to Rumi wearing unfit strengthened glasses, which in turn points to her wearing it for a disguise, rather than needing it]
8. “Wakasa Rumi" name (若狭留美) has the kanjis for “若さ wakasa”, “留める todomeru ”, “美しさ utsukushisa" that can be read as "Youth halt beauty", which fits with Vermouth's aging being stopped and having never-ending beauty.
(Link to future updates)
In-universe hints about Rumi fitting with Vermouth:
1. Rumi knows of Conan's competence as a detective and is always watchful of him. (File 966-968) [Vermouth knows his competence and views him highly]
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
- Grinning while showing a ruthless side in a blood-thirsty manner when all eyes of the relevant people are not on her (File 968, 989). Smirking at the chance of using a potential murder to further her goals (File 978) [Vermouth has at least 20 years of underworld exposure and killing experience]
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1. Haibara not being able to react immediately to Vermouth's presence anymore (File 852/856) [This makes it possible for Vermouth to be utilized as a "new character"(in disguise) who is around Haibara without constantly putting her on edge and being suspected as BO]
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- Rumi going through the reverse of Haibara suspecting Subaru and Conan supporting him (File 624/989)
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Last edited by MeiTanteixX on August 24th, 2022, 4:24 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
One thing - Vermouth hates Sherry with a burning passion. Even if she gave up her plan to kill Sherry, I don't think she would act near her as if she wouldn't be there. yet, as a shool teacher she acts as if Sherry would be a normal child. If Rumi were Vermouth, I think she would be watching both Ai and Conan, and not just Conan.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
- MeiTanteixX
Posts: 1307
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
No. That's overblown. We just know that she wanted her dead no matter what. Now that she gave up on killing her, what feelings are left for Sherry? We don't know that.Nemomon wrote:One thing - Vermouth hates Sherry with a burning passion.
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- blackmoon
Posts: 266
Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
I have no idea, but it's not that usual for Haibara to actually "like" someone, right?MeiTanteixX wrote:No. That's overblown. We just know that she wanted her dead no matter what. Now that she gave up on killing her, what feelings are left for Sherry? We don't know that.Nemomon wrote:One thing - Vermouth hates Sherry with a burning passion.

The other time was when Haibara was suspicious of Subaru who was confirmed by Conan to be "OK" and was actually Akai in disguise...


"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu)

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
1)Yet, she has to involve him in a 10 year old case to judge his worth.(Also how was she able to deducce that the skeleton was to be found there? We never saw that sort of dedcutive ability from Vermouth.)MeiTanteixX wrote:"Rumi = Vermouth" Theory Summary
In-universe hints about Rumi fitting with Vermouth:
1. Rumi knows of Conan's competance as a detective and is always watchful of him. (File 966-968) [Vermouth knows his competance and views him highly]2. Rumi is really good at acting clumsy/innocent/shy/scared, to the point that even Conan/Haibara never noticed. (File 966-968, 978) [Vermouth is a star actress]Spoiler:3. Rumi has shown a very questionable morality and conflicting sides:Spoiler:
- Grinning while showing a ruthless side in a blood-thristy manner when all eyes of the relevant people are not on her (File 968, 989). Smirking at the chance of using a potential murder to further her goals (File 978) [Vermouth has at least 20 years of underworld exposure and killing experience]- Showing empathy and tears for Ayumi to an extent that sways Haibara from her suspicion (File 989) [File 459: Vermouth left a strong positive effect on Teitan that made Araide question if she is a bad person]Spoiler:4. Rumi triggered Haibara's BO-sense (File 978) [only alive female who has done that as far as we know is Vermouth, just like Akai for the male equivalent during Subaru's triggering]Spoiler:5. Rumi is shown to have BO intel access and interest in APTX victims (File 1005) [File 823: Vermouth has a clearly portrayed goal to get rid of/hide APTX victims who survived due to shrinking and is high-ranked enough in the BO to get access to APTX victim list]Spoiler:6. Rumi has shown interest in Agasa's gadgets & his next-door neighbor (File 966, File 1006) [File 955-956: Vermouth showed interest and suspicion towards Agasa's current neighbor Subaru, who uses the voice-changing choker on a daily basis, and found out from Bourbon that he is Agasa's next-door neighbor]Spoiler:potentially relevant foreshadowings/setups by Gosho:Spoiler:
1. Haibara not being able to react immediately to Vermouth's presence anymore (File 852/856) [This makes it possible for Vermouth to be utilized as a "new character"(in disguise) who is around Haibara without constantly putting her on edge and being suspected as BO]2. DB seeing Subaru's choker (File 898) [potential setup to Rumi finding out about that gadget through DB, who she keeps involving herself with]Spoiler:3. Vermouth's disguise being mistaken for Kid's (File 958), and right before Rumi's intro:Spoiler:- previous case (Kid case), focuses on Subaru and the danger of his choker getting exposed (File 965)Spoiler:- Rumi intro, DB talks about Kid-level disguises (File 966)Spoiler:4. "My favorite is Whiskey" (File 967) ["whiskey" possibly hinting to "Rye", who she is potentially investigating, and a parallel to Jodie's favorite drink "Sherry", who she was investigating (File 343)]Spoiler:5. Acting(Ikkyu role-playing) & Disguise(Golfer) theme in the 2nd Rumi-centered case [potential easter eggs to Vermouth's main skills]Spoiler:6. Rumi-Subaru parallels (potential foreshadowing to Rumi's future development being similar to Subaru's):Spoiler:
- Rumi going through the reverse of Haibara suspecting Subaru and Conan supporting him (File 624/989)- Saving Ayumi from culprit using their skills/experience/knowledge (File 666/989) [Subaru: dealing with crime, Rumi: killing]Spoiler:7. Fukamachi(Butler) head turns and Kogoro reaction to strengthened glasses paralleling Rumi's head turns and bumping reaction (File 1009-1010 / 966/988) [potential foreshadowing to Rumi wearing unfit strengthened glasses, which in turn points to her wearing it for a disguise, rather than needing it]Spoiler:8. “Wakasa Rumi’s name (若狭留美) has the kanjis for “若さ wakasa”, “留める todomeru ”, “美しさ utsukushisa" that can be read as "Youth halt beauty", which fits with Vermouth's aging being stopped and having never-ending beauty.Spoiler:
2) Yet, Rumi can't see Ayumi through her right eye.(wrongly prescribed eyeglass argument is plain wrong. If that was the case then Rumi would also have issues regarding the blackboard, painting, answer script evaluations.)
3) Yes, your point?(More likely to be Rum than Vermouth)
4) Rum can do that also.(Not exclusive to Vermouth. Bourbon also went under her radar back then. So it is not a Vermouth only property)
5) Whsikey is an integral part of Highball. Also in Japanese culture Japanese Whiskey is referred to as Whiskey.(So my option holds more credence given the origin of the series is Japanese)
6) What? Rumi has parallels with scar-Akai. Posing as someone when she is not someone to investigate someone else.
The biggest point which you always shy away is your "Vanishing Scar theory."
Explain Rumi's scars if she is Vermouth?(given she excellent regenerative ability during mystery train we saw her bathing we didn't see the scars of the Vermouth showdown on her.)
If she is not Rum, explain why she is walking around with that Shogi piece?(Why the hell she has it when she was not even involved)
Do you know what there is another explanation to this(which fits much better you even didn't get the meanings of four Kanji's which create the full name) 若/Waka/ means youth/child of someone/young, new, 狭/sa/ means in a narrow place/tight spot/narrowness, 留/Ru/bequest/legacy/inheritance,美/mi/beauty.
So we have an "young one narrowly inherited beauty."
So daughter/sister of someone important. Not Vermouth, more likely to be Rum(who inherited her beauty from her Mom, who might have been Vermouth.)
The Todomeru you're using is a verb reading and isn't just "Todomeru" rather Oshi-Todomeru.
- MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Rum Arc Discussion Series: Higashio Maria

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
no

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Can you specify? As in, more detail than "this is *insert negative adjective here*"? I ask because my reaction to this theory just isn't that immediate.Iwamoto Yuri wrote:no
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
On the basis of many Japanese series, and four times within Conan, a transfer student is usually a character of interest and related to the overarching plot.
We've had:
Conan
Haibara
Eisuke
Sera
We've had:
Conan
Haibara
Eisuke
Sera
- Swagnarok
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