Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 5th, 2017, 6:11 pm

Nemomon wrote:
Spoiler:
I meant that she as RUMI should not know that Subaru lives there. If she wants to keep her cover, she should act as what Rumi might know or heard about. Surely Rumi doesn't know about Subaru, so if she wants some info about him, she should ask about "someone who lives in Kudo's house".
Spoiler:
Well, she wasn't really revealing any knowledge about Subaru when asking about Shinichi. Had she asked the way you suggested, she would be revealing to Haibara that she is interested in her neighbor. One way to see it is, she wanted to start a conversation about Agasa's neighbor, leading with Shinichi(the son of the owner of the Kudo mansion), since she can cover her "sudden interest" with the latest news about him. Before she could get somewhere, the DB came, so she decided to cut it short.

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spoiler:
Again You read my words from a wrong perspective. I meant that Vermouth (knowing that she talks with Sherry) knows that she must act very carefully, and that Haibara is not an ordinary kid that will believe in everything You will say them. For this reason she knows that she must think twice for each question she will ask Haibara, because there is a risk that she will see through the cover (like recently Conan did during the hangman case, and Vermouth exactly knew that Conan saw through her).
Spoiler:
Sorry for the misinterpretation. Again, so long as she covers up her "sudden interest" with "well, he's a big topic now", Haibara shouldn't suspect anything serious, from Rumi's point of view. (During betrayal, Vermouth rushed her disguise of Azusa, to quickly get involved in the "ASACA" investigation, and was therefore unprepared, which is why she let herself get exposed by Conan)
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kor » October 7th, 2017, 7:32 pm

K.O.R.N wrote:The good thing is Conan has come closer to BO than he did 10 years ago. His goal of making Kogoro a famous detective has a meaning behind it. And now, Kogoro has accepted the offer to look into the Kouji case, a case that is directly related to BO. This, as a result will attract BO and so that's one way Conan can learn about BO's moves and such. And Kogoro, a very suspicious figure, as noted by Gin, and possibly Rum also knows that Kogoro will investigate this case later on, and now is on the move. And through this Kouji case, coincidentally he gets to know that Rum was the culprit behind it. Plot convenience, sure, but he just knew some more info from BO. Most recently, Shinichi's identity appears on the news, and it's worldwide news. Thus, this will definitely draw BO closer to him, as a way to lure them out. BO's motto is to hide and maintain the secrecy of the organization at all costs (explains why MPD doesn't know of them at all and only top secret agents, or international agencies know about their existence. Against such a mysterious organization like this, drawing them out of their cave is an excellent strategic move from Conan. The step he's at now is still gathering info, before he and his allies launch a final attack.

Upon reading 1006 today I have strong hope for further plot progression, because of several reasons.


You know, I had a discussion with Jd- a while ago and he mentioned something interesting. Back when Kir was brought back to the BO, there were a number of people who thought this is a really huge deal and that surely means we're close to the end cause it's like she's this Wedge of Steel™. And it was similar with later spots in the series as well (I for example thought we're like really close to the final act after the Red Shirts case). Those times were then, and here we are now. Now there are some people (or at least there used to be) who are very certain we're closer to the end cause we're dealing the Number 2 of the org and that sounds like a really big deal.
We could point at various points throughout the manga and say to ourselves that now we're closer, or there was some major progression, but the way this manga functions at its core is that it's really mostly an illusion. Or at least, it's an illusion until it finally happens for real. And hey, maybe you're right and this time it happens for real, buuuuuuuut it could also be an illusion, again.

I do want to address on two specific points, though.

Against such a mysterious organization like this, drawing them out of their cave is an excellent strategic move from Conan.


He isn't actively doing that, though. So I'm not entirely sure it's strategic as much as it's "accidental". Besides, they were drawn out various times in the past, yet he didn't really use the opportunities to do anything other than find the means to go back to the status quo.

The step he's at now is still gathering info, before he and his allies launch a final attack.


For how long has he been at this "gathering info" stage? You can say he's been gathering info since he heard Vermouth messaging the boss. (whatever happened with that thread anyway?). Or even before that, with that Itakura thing that happened even before the Vermouth confrontation. Which basically goes back to what I said earlier. He's not really made much progress. Stuff might be happening every once in a while, but just because stuff happens doesn't mean it goes anywhere.
Conan can still be gathering info for the next 10 years, and we can say 10 years from now that he's still at that stage before he launches that final attack. To me this type of argument just seems apologetic at this point and gives the manga more credit than its due, instead of recognizing the storytelling and the nature of this manga for what they actually are.

(I also don't think Conan is really gathering info at this point as much as he's just sitting on his butt while info is conveniently thrown at his doorstep every once in a while.)

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Meaning the plot is changed and/or up-in-the-air week to week, and there's no long-term planning?...


No, meaning that various aspects of this plot were made up as the series went along. For example Akai was not originally envisioned to have a sister (pretty much all the Sera related stuff was definitely made up later); it wasn't originally envisioned that Conan would sit in a car next to Vermouth and she'd text a message to her boss; it's very doubtful it was envisioned that there'd be so many childhood love interests, or spies in the organization from various agencies.

Yes, there's totally long-term planning for the major mystery at hand for the next 5-7+ years (though the content in said mysteries amounts to far less than that, but there's a whole lot of filler in this series), there's just a lack of long-long-term planning. (it does probably exist with some minor elements, but not the stuff we usually have to deal with)

...or have the sheer length + narrative/character choices just taken 2007–present DC to a point where even just a constructed (whether it's considered well constructed or not) puzzle doesn't seem like a puzzle that was built/constructed at all, but rather, nothing more than a series of loose, coincidental connections that have been dragged out (a mile wide) yet rushed (an inch deep), to the point that the overall product becomes mediocre or worse?


If a proposed puzzle doesn't seem like a puzzle, doesn't that mean it actually isn't a puzzle and the proposition is wrong?
I don't necessarily believe 2007 is the best year to take a note of, to be honest. It's right after the confrontation with Vermouth that it feels like Gosho is taking a step back and planning his next step, cause for the next 60 chapters, Conan is busy thinking about a cellphone number/address and the plot stands in its place.

In why it doesn't feel like there's some major puzzle construction going on in this series, it's because Gosho doesn't really give any real hints (in the manga) about the biggest mysteries in the manga. The boss mystery hasn't really progressed since the Vermouth confrontation. If this series were a smart gigantic puzzle, surely we should have gotten more on that front (instead we just know who isn't the boss cause Gosho shoots down suggestions in interviews every once in a while) (and yes, I'm aware of that lip service line after the Scarlet showdown about Vermouth's connection to the boss, but no, it's not enough in my view to reconstruct the boss mystery as a puzzle). Same for something Shadow pointed out in the cbox. After 10 years we hardly know anything more about the BO than previously. We know it has more spies in it, and we know it has some member named Rum in it, but its goal, its infrastructure, anything that makes it a little bit more than "evil dangerous criminal organization with some weird drug and software" has gone untouched. If this were a puzzle, we should have gotten something.

Instead we're just doing the same thing we've done since the Vermouth stuff, basically. Focus for an extended amount of time on one specific BO member and their identity/allegiance.

The un-puzzleness of this series also goes hand in hand with its storytelling too. Conan conveniently comes across important stuff or characters due to... convenience and coincidences. If this series was more cleverly constructed, the reliance on coincidences to make stuff happen wouldn't be necessary. It would all fit together (like a puzzle).
We wouldn't need such a silly scenario as Conan and Haibara coincidentally coming across Gin's car in the middle of the city, or Shinichi and Ran managing to encounter Akai across the world several times in their lives, or Conan encountering Yumi and Naeko in the middle of the city just when Naeko gets a call from her friend (whom Conan also conveniently know), who happens to work at the same floor as Yumi's boyfriend who just happens to be the brother of the FBI agent who lives in Conan's house. (and then later on have Conan once again conveniently encounter Yumi and help her solve a case and then conveniently he's nearby listening to Yumi repeating Kouji's name just so Haibara can hear it so she can tell Conan that it's a name that appeared on the APTX victims list).

If this series truly were such a well constructed puzzle (or a puzzle at all), there would be no need for things to transpire in this manner.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 8th, 2017, 2:42 am

Kor wrote:I don't necessarily believe 2007 is the best year to take a note of, to be honest. It's right after the confrontation with Vermouth that it feels like Gosho is taking a step back and planning his next step, cause for the next 60 chapters, Conan is busy thinking about a cellphone number/address and the plot stands in its place.


Ah, darn. Usually, I do mention 2003, but this was one time I didn't.

I usually mention 2003-2007 because it seems that either after the Vermouth arc or after the Kir arc is where some come to the conclusion that what comes after either one of those arcs is of markedly inferior quality. The Cell Phone arc and Kir arc would be pointed out by some as the beginning of the downward slope in quality, and the Bourbon arc would be considered as the arc that really accelerated the decline in quality.

Kor wrote:In why it doesn't feel like there's some major puzzle construction going on in this series, it's because Gosho doesn't really give any real hints (in the manga) about the biggest mysteries in the manga. The boss mystery hasn't really progressed since the Vermouth confrontation. If this series were a smart gigantic puzzle, surely we should have gotten more on that front (instead we just know who isn't the boss cause Gosho shoots down suggestions in interviews every once in a while) (and yes, I'm aware of that lip service line after the Scarlet showdown about Vermouth's connection to the boss, but no, it's not enough in my view to reconstruct the boss mystery as a puzzle). Same for something Shadow pointed out in the cbox. After 10 years we hardly know anything more about the BO than previously. We know it has more spies in it, and we know it has some member named Rum in it, but its goal, its infrastructure, anything that makes it a little bit more than "evil dangerous criminal organization with some weird drug and software" has gone untouched. If this were a puzzle, we should have gotten something.

Instead we're just doing the same thing we've done since the Vermouth stuff, basically. Focus for an extended amount of time on one specific BO member and their identity/allegiance.

The un-puzzleness of this series also goes hand in hand with its storytelling too. Conan conveniently comes across important stuff or characters due to... convenience and coincidences. If this series was more cleverly constructed, the reliance on coincidences to make stuff happen wouldn't be necessary. It would all fit together (like a puzzle).
We wouldn't need such a silly scenario as Conan and Haibara coincidentally coming across Gin's car in the middle of the city, or Shinichi and Ran managing to encounter Akai across the world several times in their lives, or Conan encountering Yumi and Naeko in the middle of the city just when Naeko gets a call from her friend (whom Conan also conveniently know), who happens to work at the same floor as Yumi's boyfriend who just happens to be the brother of the FBI agent who lives in Conan's house. (and then later on have Conan once again conveniently encounter Yumi and help her solve a case and then conveniently he's nearby listening to Yumi repeating Kouji's name just so Haibara can hear it so she can tell Conan that it's a name that appeared on the APTX victims list).

If this series truly were such a well constructed puzzle (or a puzzle at all), there would be no need for things to transpire in this manner.


So, IYO, we have no puzzle, just a series of immersion-breaking/suspense-of-disbelief-breaking coincidences... so post-Vermouth arc DC is of what quality, IYO? We talking just below average or straight-up failure (though I'd bet 2007-present would be considered worse than 2003-2007)? And doesn't that mean, IYO, this aspect of the series, at least, is no longer worth the time?

Was 1994-2003 DC just so good that even 10-14 years of underwhelming/mediocre/disappointing content that follow it are worth enduring?... as in, the long decline will ultimately prove to be worth it due to Gosho redeeming himself by returning to Vermouth arc form when he finally decides to end the series? Even then, a good ending without that long decline is better than a good ending with that long decline, so it'd be just too little, too late, right?

If the mystery of a mystery series is no longer worth the time, then what's left?
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby K.O.R.N » October 10th, 2017, 5:06 pm

@Kor, I bank on the fact that Gosho said "everything has to come to an end" or something like that, so meaning he will end DC in a couple years from now. My prediction is 10 years or around that, so, I make that observation, that the plot is progressing and Conan is coming closer to BO.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 10th, 2017, 5:32 pm

Yeah and he also said he doesn't want to "break" KochiKames record.

I also wouldn't say that 1994-2003 wasn't that supirior. Heck ,during half the time most of the important main chracters wern't introduced yet.

The Kir Arc basically only became a diaappointment, because Rena and her bro were basically wirtten out. (Which partiallly had to do with the fact that Eisuke wasn't well received.)

This was the mai nreseo nwhy the focus switched to the Akai family (Masumi also wasn't planned. Gosho basically invented her because that Detective Koshien Girl Detective was well received, but he couldn't reuse her because she was the culprit in that case.)

Personally, I actually liked the current stuff of the last 2-3 years. I also got Conan fatigue in 2015, but bingereading cured it. (The breaks are still a pain, thought. Well, at least Gosho apologized for them..)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Incomplete-tantei » October 11th, 2017, 12:40 pm

He also said he'd retire at Agasa's age but he didn't xD
There's still quite a lot to unravel but I personally don't think it's going to last 10 more years. I'd say 5-6 years, maybe 7 but not more than this.

Also it's true that DC's pace is very slow and a lot of mysteries are still there but I guess the manga's pace can't stay like this forever, it's going to speed up sooner or later. Otherwise it will last way too long and that wouldn't do since Gosho's getting on in years.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 11th, 2017, 2:31 pm

Incomplete-tantei wrote: a lot of mysteries are still there .



This word interested me; so I want too ask you something: "Which types of mysteries that are still there, and I didn't see"?
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Spimer » October 12th, 2017, 5:29 am

Well, there are several things pending resolution (apart from RUM's identity)

. The BO boss
. What Haibara came to do in Bikuni Island (Mermaid case)
. Itakura's mysterious software, the development of which he stopped "for the sake of humanity"
. Silver Bullet, the Miyanos' research
. The ultimate goal of the BO
. Why Vermouth doesn't age
. The Haneda Kouji case (identity of Asaka)
. When and how did Mary get srunk
. Whether Tsutomu is dead or not
. How did Rumi get the APTX list

These are some of the most relevant / recent I can think of right now.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Incomplete-tantei » October 12th, 2017, 7:14 am

-What does "the Sister from outside the territory" mean ?
-Who were Sera and Okiya on the phone with at the end of Conan's kidnapping case and what did they talk about ?(I wonder if it'll ever be revealed)
-Kuroda's coma ?

I can't think of many but there's still quite a number of secrets.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby K.O.R.N » October 12th, 2017, 10:27 am

In case you are curious, I have made a list of 80 mysteries (ranging from possible ones, to absolute ones) here: https://anotepad.com/notes/hkjph5
The DCTP spirit has been revived! For those of you who don't know, I, Spimer, Tantei-san and Startold have been remaking old DC chapters and uploading them to Bato.to. We work as a team, and it's been going great! I'm very happy to be able to gather a new DCTP scanlation generation to restore the fire! Our goal is to remake around 450 chapters total, with better scans and translations from Spimer!
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kor » October 12th, 2017, 4:57 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So, IYO, we have no puzzle, just a series of immersion-breaking/suspense-of-disbelief-breaking coincidences... so post-Vermouth arc DC is of what quality, IYO? We talking just below average or straight-up failure (though I'd bet 2007-present would be considered worse than 2003-2007)? And doesn't that mean, IYO, this aspect of the series, at least, is no longer worth the time?


While I get the point of your approach, to me it feels like the answer you're seeking is basically a sort of a "grade", and I don't like to talk about fiction in a grade-ish manner.

I also didn't really enter this discussion in order to comment on its quality. I just saw some people saying that it's like a puzzle, and wanted to explain why I think that element doesn't really exist in this series. I sure would have liked it to exist, though.

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Was 1994-2003 DC just so good that even 10-14 years of underwhelming/mediocre/disappointing content that follow it are worth enduring?


Dunno, to give a realistic answer to this one I'd have to reread/rewatch said content again. To this day there are a quite a few manga cases I simply skipped due to lack of interest, so it's not like I've ever been in a camp that declared those first few years you mentioned as "so good" in the first place. Heck, until Vermouth's appearance, there's hardly any plot to begin with, so it's not like a "the plot stands in its place" criticism doesn't apply to those early few years as well.

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:as in, the long decline will ultimately prove to be worth it due to Gosho redeeming himself by returning to Vermouth arc form when he finally decides to end the series?


Maybe yes, maybe not? Dunno, that's an entirely hypothetical question that can only be answered after the fact, not before it.
As far as Gosho redeeming himself, that honestly depends on him recognizing in the first place the faults in his storytelling, and that simply doesn't seem to be happening. If we're being perfectly honest, though, it's not like some of those faults hadn't existed way back in those first few years as well. The shallow romances were there from the start, there just weren't so many of them. The convenient encounters were also there from early on (Conan and Haibara just happen to stumble across Gin's car in the middle of the city). It's just in the last decade these things simply became more apparent because of the lack of actual progress, staleness, repetition and magnifying storytelling problems.

Of course, the feeling of staleness and stuff is all quite subjective and someone who binges through the whole thing now, may not feel the series has gotten stale in the content of the last decade. Actually, if anyone's still in the fandom a decade from now, please find a way to contact me if this scenario ever occurs:
Some fan binges through the series, and 5-10 years from now he's like "the series was at its best until Rum appeared, then the quality declined :("

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Even then, a good ending without that long decline is better than a good ending with that long decline, so it'd be just too little, too late, right?


Again, hypothetical. But sure, I'd rather have a series with a well executed ending that didn't have a decline in quality over what that did.
That said, I really find it hard to believe Gosho can give us a satisfying payoff worth of 20+ years. Not because specifically Gosho can't, but because I don't believe any author can. But hey, I could be wrong about it.

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:If the mystery of a mystery series is no longer worth the time, then what's left?


Documentation of the series and its screw-ups?
But I'm going back to what I said earlier - I merely wanted to comment on what the series is and that it lacked the aspect of a puzzle. It's not really about worth or not worth the time, it's about that it hardly ever seems to surface, so... so far it's hardly even been a mystery, or at least, a mystery that we can solve.

K.O.R.N wrote:My prediction is 10 years or around that, so, I make that observation, that the plot is progressing and Conan is coming closer to BO.


Okay I guess, but that doesn't mean that narratively he's coming closer to the BO than in other past points in the series. Just because the series may end in 10 years doesn't necessarily mean the plot is progressing. It may progress only eight years from now while still standing in the same place until then. Technically reaching to the end of a book doesn't mean the plot in it progressed in its last 100 pages.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Incomplete-tantei » October 12th, 2017, 5:33 pm

K.O.R.N wrote:In case you are curious, I have made a list of 80 mysteries (ranging from possible ones, to absolute ones) here: https://anotepad.com/notes/hkjph5


If I can just answer one of your questions ; 61. Who makes Chianti and Korn antagonistic towards Vermouth?
If you're wondering why they hate Vermouth it's because "Vermouth let Calvados died". Looks like Calvados was Chianti and Korn's buddy. That was during the FBI vs BO part, Kir's introduction and all.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 13th, 2017, 1:27 am

Kor wrote:While I get the point of your approach, to me it feels like the answer you're seeking is basically a sort of a "grade", and I don't like to talk about fiction in a grade-ish manner.


Well, I was looking more for descriptors (excellent, above average, average, etc.) than actual letter grades (A, B, C, etc.). Is that a no go for you, too?

In that case, then what's the first word that comes to your mind when you think of 1) DC up to the end of the Vermouth arc and 2) Post-Vermouth arc DC?

Kor wrote:...to give a realistic answer to this one I'd have to reread/rewatch said content again. To this day there are a quite a few manga cases I simply skipped due to lack of interest, so it's not like I've ever been in a camp that declared those first few years you mentioned as "so good" in the first place. Heck, until Vermouth's appearance, there's hardly any plot to begin with, so it's not like a "the plot stands in its place" criticism doesn't apply to those early few years as well.


I guess I should change my date from '94–'03 to '99–'03 (well, technically December '98), then. So it was Vermouth, not Shiho/Ai, who brought the plot, IYO?

Kor wrote:As far as Gosho redeeming himself, that honestly depends on him recognizing in the first place the faults in his storytelling, and that simply doesn't seem to be happening. If we're being perfectly honest, though, it's not like some of those faults hadn't existed way back in those first few years as well. The shallow romances were there from the start, there just weren't so many of them. The convenient encounters were also there from early on (Conan and Haibara just happen to stumble across Gin's car in the middle of the city). It's just in the last decade these things simply became more apparent because of the lack of actual progress, staleness, repetition and magnifying storytelling problems.

Of course, the feeling of staleness and stuff is all quite subjective and someone who binges through the whole thing now, may not feel the series has gotten stale in the content of the last decade. Actually, if anyone's still in the fandom a decade from now, please find a way to contact me if this scenario ever occurs:
Some fan binges through the series, and 5-10 years from now he's like "the series was at its best until Rum appeared, then the quality declined :("


And even when/if he does, it still could be considered, again, to be too little, too late—as in, DC without this period where there was the perception that Gosho didn't know or didn't care about the flaws in his storytelling would be better than DC with this period where there was the perception that Gosho didn't know or didn't care about the flaws in his storytelling.

Ah, so it is like that.

IYO, the Rum arc (so far) is even worse than the Bourbon arc, right? So this scenario may actually come to make sense.

As of now, at least, I think I'll actually be here 5-10 years down the road—so I'll see what I can do, on that front. ;)

Kor wrote:Again, hypothetical. But sure, I'd rather have a series with a well executed ending that didn't have a decline in quality over what that did.
That said, I really find it hard to believe Gosho can give us a satisfying payoff worth of 20+ years. Not because specifically Gosho can't, but because I don't believe any author can. But hey, I could be wrong about it.


Yeah, even if one were to have very good long-term planning skills combined with good storytelling skills, they'd probably need a perfect storm/lightning in a bottle scenario to make it work.

Kor wrote:Documentation of the series and its screw-ups?


So DC is a series worth documenting the failures/wasted potential of?

Kor wrote:I merely wanted to comment on what the series is and that it lacked the aspect of a puzzle. It's not really about worth or not worth the time, it's about that it hardly ever seems to surface, so... so far it's hardly even been a mystery, or at least, a mystery that we can solve.


If Gosho had chose to not extend the series like he has (especially 2007–present)—thus (presumably) forcing him to bring the mystery to the surface so that we'd have a better chance of solving it ourselves—it would get less flack, certainly.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kor » October 13th, 2017, 9:24 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Well, I was looking more for descriptors (excellent, above average, average, etc.) than actual letter grades (A, B, C, etc.). Is that a no go for you, too?


Those may as well be grades as far as I'm concerned. Many countries across the world use these words as descriptions of grades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grading_s ... by_country

In that case, then what's the first word that comes to your mind when you think of 1) DC up to the end of the Vermouth arc and 2) Post-Vermouth arc DC?


I certainly don't like to give non-answers to questions, but again, this isn't a question I think I want to answer. Why narrow down an opinion to but a single word? Fiction writing is art, there are nuances.

So it was Vermouth, not Shiho/Ai, who brought the plot, IYO?


Gosho brings the plot.
But to answer your question, between Haibara's introduction to the Pisco case, can you point at an instance that feels like we moved from one point to another point?
The plot is always there, it's just that in this series, it may stand in its place for a whole lot of time. Until Vermouth shows up, though, there's no real focus and it's just random events occurring from time to time. I suppose when Haibara shows up, it certainly freshens up the series and serves as a more constant reminder for the presence of the organization, but it didn't exactly progress anything until that Pisco case.

IYO, the Rum arc (so far) is even worse than the Bourbon arc, right?


Not really...? The same problems that plagued the Bourbon stuff are still around, and the storytelling is still roughly the same. We got the new characters faster this time around, but they're all very uninteresting. The Akais are still around and I'm still not convinced Gosho had a real plan about Sera and co when he first brought them in. But all in all, it's just really more of the same.
The construction of the mystery might be worse, though, cause 100+ chapters in, we really don't have enough clues yet, and the "villain" hasn't done anything (in the present), to the point of some people suggesting the idea that Rum (or the character meant to be Rum) hasn't even been introduced yet. (I'd like to hope it's not true, of course).

So DC is a series worth documenting the failures/wasted potential of?


For an unrelated third party that's never been interested in the series to begin with? Probably not. For someone who's been following it for almost a decade? Sure, that's one activity one could embark on if it derives some form of satisfaction. Dunno for how long this satisfaction can last, of course.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 13th, 2017, 10:01 am

K.O.R.N wrote:In case you are curious, I have made a list of 80 mysteries (ranging from possible ones, to absolute ones) here: https://anotepad.com/notes/hkjph5


Incomplete-tantei wrote:-What does "the Sister from outside the territory" mean ?
-Who were Sera and Okiya on the phone with at the end of Conan's kidnapping case and what did they talk about ?(I wonder if it'll ever be revealed)
-Kuroda's coma ?

I can't think of many but there's still quite a number of secrets.



Spimer wrote:Well, there are several things pending resolution (apart from RUM's identity)

. The BO boss
. What Haibara came to do in Bikuni Island (Mermaid case)
. Itakura's mysterious software, the development of which he stopped "for the sake of humanity"
. Silver Bullet, the Miyanos' research
. The ultimate goal of the BO
. Why Vermouth doesn't age
. The Haneda Kouji case (identity of Asaka)
. When and how did Mary get srunk
. Whether Tsutomu is dead or not
. How did Rumi get the APTX list

These are some of the most relevant / recent I can think of right now.



TO tell you the truth, I am ure that most of them are not mysterious and jut talk if you ask me

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