Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1181

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 3rd, 2017, 4:48 pm

Tequila said "We don't need you anymore"(according to Itakura's childhood friend), after Itakura rejected his request. Yet, Itakura was still being threatened until he accepted their demands and was called by Vermouth. It looks to me like after the Boss gave up on Itakura, Vermouth insisted on taking matters into her own hands and harrass Itakura until he gave up. The reason for that is clearly because, as Yukiko presumed, Vermouth has her own plans for the software. It definitely has something to do with the things she has been hiding, like the Miyano's accident, her double identity or the research.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Spimer
Moderator
User avatar

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Force!

Posts: 895

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » January 3rd, 2017, 5:05 pm

Yeah. But nevertheless the project was authorized by someone else as Itakura was given a payment in advance and Vodka was in charge of interacting with him.

Vermouth was surely the woman he mentioned on the diary, anyways.

As for what it's supposed to do... Maybe it's some kind of program that, if misued, can become a great threat. But makes you wonder why would Itakura start to work on something like that on his own if he was supposed to be a CG engineer.

But I think we're getting a bit off trail again.

Regarding the boss, I still think it's a secondary character who's appeared with a full name at some point but that doesn't mean they have a defined appearance: it could be a background character name mentioned at some point.

The email sent to Vermouth looked like something a man would write (from Japanese text analysis) but it could be a woman posing as a man. Yet a man gives off more the vibe of someone who'd be able to keep a man like Gin under control, in my opinion, and to the point Gin always calls him/her "that person". Vermouth is the only one who says "boss".

So she being the boss' wife/daugther sounds likely.
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
EpocConan
User avatar
Posts: 4

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby EpocConan » January 3rd, 2017, 6:40 pm

Absenta wrote:
- Vermouth is a really important character, her link to the boss it´s truly a mistery because she is likely the one that shouldn´t have much related to him. She is a famous international actress, american and doesn´t seems to have a huge interest in crime, we could say she is like a Hitchcook-girl-spy, with a devil and a cute side, that trick us. Yes, we know, Vermouth is a hot and cool character, but over that she is very intelligent and quite early from her first apparition whe discovered in her intense feelings towards Ran and Shinichi, philosophical dilemmas and stuff. Gosho tries to show us that Vermouth is a really complex character, and paradoxical. He doesn´t take that time with Gin or other baddies, Vermouth is special.

- They never show the full portrait of Elena, always with glasses, only the mouth, some of the face...Even other mysterious characters like Papa Akai have been shown. Elena is a nuclear character and never has been shown, along with Atsushi (less mentioned)

- Before Mary´s apparition Elena and Vermouth are the two really known an important characters in the series that are occidental.
Futhermore, they first apparition (Elena just figured) is in the same case. The Haido hotel case (a brief note about Pisco. I think the BO was planning to get rid of him, not necessarily that night but Vermouth went to oversee him as she said in the EPISODE ONE case). We don´t know if the boss was in the party , and Vermouth couldn´t send an sms to the boss during the interrogation.
As it was said in the original theory, Vermouth always appeared after Haibara talked about her mother.


- Vermouth´s secret: Over the fact she doesn´t age, and she is linked more deeply to the boss, I think her secret is that she is Elena Miyano, and Bourbon knows that because he met her when he was little and in some way something from Vermouth must have reminded him, doing futrther research he could find out. Still, Vermouth and Bourbon have a nice relationship, they work really well together, and allthough Vermouth willed to kill him I think they are accomplices in some way inside the BO, each one with different objetives.
Actually, all the Sharon/Chris stuff maybe is just covering the fact she is Elena. The series never stated that Sharon Vineyard was the true name of Vermouth, and Vineyard is just a coded-alcohol alias after all.

- Why did Vermouth take classes with Toichi Kuroba¿? I think it was because she had the need to disguise herself from the moment that the Miyanos disappearead.

- She really hates Shiho, maybe because she is carryng on the drug proyect, the proyect that make her a monster that can´t age an probably turn out mad her own husband (likely the boss). I think Vermouth could have a mental illness because of the drug, disorder personality problems and all the secondary effects that a drug can harm. Haibara has a terrible fear towards BO members, but I remember she had a horrible one towards Vermouth. I think Haibara knows that Elena is Vermouth, and Elena died somehow, now it only remains her devil side.

- Vermouth , along the boss was probably the first person in triying the drug. I mean, Vermouth , being an important piece inside the BO would never be a simple guinea pigs, she has to be envolved so much in the project, because othervise she wouldn´t be that important for the boss and would taked the drug. Vermouth also is really smart and has a scientific mind.

- ¿What about the Miyano accident? Did Elena Miyano take the drug intenting suicide¿? Maybe Atsushi Miyano was so obsessed that he became mad with the project and Elena didn´t want to continue it, so she took the drug and didn´t die . Making herself an important piece for the boss, maybe Vermouth is Elena Miyano and she is just planning how to take down the BO through Conan intending she hates her own daughter.
She believes the only one that can take down the BO is Shinichi, not FBI or other NOCS, nothing...that´s why se doesn´t really care about Kir or Bourbon identities.

- I believe the Itakura software was a side-plan of Vermouth to destroy internally all the BO research.

- All this would mean that Mary and Vermouth and sister, makes sense because they resemble a bit, could be interesting in the future.


Dunno, so many questions but I think they can be the same person, like a fallen angel that plans to take down the BO




It's possible Vermouth is Elena. I do find it interesting how Elena was called Hell Angel while in the BO and Vermouth calls Ran sweet angel. Vermouth also said something about no angel ever smiling on her. A lot of angel stuff going on. Also, Ran looks like Akemi who would presumably be Elena/Vermouth's daughter, this would explain her love for Ran over her own life at times. Still, I doubt Vermouth would want to kill Shiho so bad if she was her daughter yet protect Ran who only looks like her daughter if she was Elena.

I think it's possible Elena could have became Akemi using Silver Bullet, which would fill in a lot of logic gaps imo, but raises other questions. Either way, a lot of unanswered questions...
Absenta
Posts: 54

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Absenta » January 3rd, 2017, 7:59 pm

Spimer wrote:Yeah. But nevertheless the project was authorized by someone else as Itakura was given a payment in advance and Vodka was in charge of interacting with him.

Vermouth was surely the woman he mentioned on the diary, anyways.

As for what it's supposed to do... Maybe it's some kind of program that, if misued, can become a great threat. But makes you wonder why would Itakura start to work on something like that on his own if he was supposed to be a CG engineer.

But I think we're getting a bit off trail again.

Regarding the boss, I still think it's a secondary character who's appeared with a full name at some point but that doesn't mean they have a defined appearance: it could be a background character name mentioned at some point.

The email sent to Vermouth looked like something a man would write (from Japanese text analysis) but it could be a woman posing as a man. Yet a man gives off more the vibe of someone who'd be able to keep a man like Gin under control, in my opinion, and to the point Gin always calls him/her "that person". Vermouth is the only one who says "boss".

So she being the boss' wife/daugther sounds likely.



I can recall that before the Miyanos disapparead they visited Atsushi´s father to ask for something. What was that¿?
Who could be Atsuhi´s father¿? Maybe the boss¿? That would make Elena daughter in law and Haibara granddaugther.
But I don´t think Vermouth is linked to the boss being a mere daughter in law , or maybe yes, and they are trying to bring up to life Atsushi Miyano because both of them love him.

Yes, that sms and some vibes could lead us to Vermouth as the boss daughter. She is just like the typical insurgent daughter. If Vermouth would be his wife I don´t think he would gave her that freedom, and I think it is easier for someone to get rid of his own wife rather that his own child. Furthermore, maybe she reminds him to his death wife and all this stuff has something to do to bring her back to life. Something that bothers Vermouth. If Vermouth is the boss daughter that could mean that anokata is british (yes, I just can´t stand them to be americans).That reduces drastically the number of characters that could be the boss. DC is a total tribute to Sherlock Holmes/Agata Christie stories and that has to make some important characters necesarily british.

Bourbon is also an important character because he knows what links Vermouth to the boss. As I said before I think it´s because he knew Elena and he found out that Vermouth and Elena are the same person, assuming that it´s easier to discover all the mistery behind.

The Akemi=Elena theory is also plausible but Haibara would have known. And as Vermouth=Elena and why that Shiho hatred maybe because somehow Vermouth/Elena blames her own daughter for the death of his older sister Akemi, after all , Akemi didn´t have a rank coded name inside the organization, Ai did...she worked in a project and her mother just told her not to do it, maybe too late through that tapes byt anyway... I can´t understand why Vermouth loves so much Ran/Angel, yes, it´s true that her saved her life but it has to be something more behind this mistery. Also, it´s curious how Ai resembled Ran as Akemi, maybe Vermouth did the same in that scene in the docks.

We don´t know really much about Ai and her time in the BO, so we can´t understand why Vermouth hates her that much, assuming she is Elena of course...it´s not that strange that a mother could have that hatred towards her own child, the tapes were recorded long ago, as a way to change future and don´t mess things.

When we find out who Vermouth really is I think all the pieces will gather together. How the Miyanos and the Akai are linked, and how they are linked to anokata too, that´s for sure. Rum is an important part of the plot right now but I think it´s the person that could lead us to understand better how the BO works internally, if there are BO members infiltrated in the police, etc...I might be wrong and Rum is strongly linked to the Akai for example, but I think he is a mere big fish as a prelude to the anokata-miyano arc...
Spimer
Moderator
User avatar

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Force!

Posts: 895

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » January 4th, 2017, 6:19 am

Absenta wrote:I can recall that before the Miyanos disapparead they visited Atsushi´s father to ask for something. What was that¿?
Who could be Atsuhi´s father¿? Maybe the boss¿? That would make Elena daughter in law and Haibara granddaugther.
But I don´t think Vermouth is linked to the boss being a mere daughter in law , or maybe yes, and they are trying to bring up to life Atsushi Miyano because both of them love him.


The man they visited was a colleage of Atsushi who was an architect and living on Atsushi's house since he'd lent it to him. They waited for some hours for him to come back but they left before he did so they never got to talk.
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
$*Jason342*$
User avatar
Posts: 2

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby $*Jason342*$ » April 15th, 2017, 10:40 am

In all honesty Anokata in my opinion has got to be a billionaire, in order to finance a large company at face value,whilst also affording to find the silver bullet research project(not to mention he has his own assassins squad to carry out the necessary dirty work required to keep his research going).I seem to recall gosho stating that Anokata's name has appeared in the manga early on, this allows us to narrow down the list of suspects.If Anokata's is a child as some have theorised,then he would have to have faked his death in the same way that vermouth did with the Sharon/Chris vineyard switch.He may have also written his will to vermouth(depending on what she is to him i.e girlfriend,wife,daughter).

We know that he is very careful as well as ruthless,due to him going to the length of nearly assassinating Domo who was running for priminister,simply because he would have been a hinderence to Anokata's plans(due to him being tough on crime)which the Boss uses to finance his research project.I still suspect kurasama renya the dead billionaire as he could have faked his death and could no be a child giving orders to vermouth,but who know the possibilities are endless.
Spimer
Moderator
User avatar

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Force!

Posts: 895

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » April 15th, 2017, 4:57 pm

Hello, welcome to the forums!

Regarding the boss, Gosho said that it has "appeared with his/her full name" at SOME point in the manga.

Before that it was the "name" and it had to be before Vol 57.

But now we have the "full name" thing and it could be anywhere in the manga.

Many have tried to narrow it down but it could basically anyone at this point.

Many agree that Karasuma is fishy but in terms of personality feels too stupid and impatient to fit with the boss' description of "the type who'd take a stone bridge apart just to check it's solid".

Time will tell, we hope!
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
geetp007
User avatar

Eliminate the impossible and whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Posts: 39

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby geetp007 » April 23rd, 2017, 8:14 pm

Spimer wrote:Hello, welcome to the forums!

Regarding the boss, Gosho said that it has "appeared with his/her full name" at SOME point in the manga.

Before that it was the "name" and it had to be before Vol 57.

But now we have the "full name" thing and it could be anywhere in the manga.

Many have tried to narrow it down but it could basically anyone at this point.

Many agree that Karasuma is fishy but in terms of personality feels too stupid and impatient to fit with the boss' description of "the type who'd take a stone bridge apart just to check it's solid".

Time will tell, we hope!


What you said about the Karasuma Renya's description is true but as far as I know, we never got to know more about him or his personality. The manga did say that he died but I think it has a connection with Itakura's diary which said that "we could be the God and the Devil since they were trying to raise the dead against the stream of time", and since Vermouth is Anokata's favorite, I really think she revived the boss (if he is Karasuma) because she is related to him/her.
Ahococacola Screamer
User avatar
Posts: 4

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Ahococacola Screamer » May 12th, 2017, 8:26 pm

I think boss has blood relation with Vermouth but again we can't know for sure now. We know Vermouth treasures Ran and Shin even though they have no blood relation to her, so it could be either way. The boss could be someone that has adopted Vermouth for a long time, or that he has saved Vermouth from a lot of complications when she was in BO, or promoted her because she knew his secret to blackmail him.

We also know that a lot of possible candidates like Yuusaku, Eri, Kogoro, etc have been eliminated as being boss by Gosho, but there are still quite a few candidates as the series progresses or even characters in the past. As Gosho has said that boss has appeared in the series, I think one possibility is the name Rentarou Daikoku as suggested by Chekhov McGuffin (this name appeared in the Mermaid Guestbook, along with the name Shiho Miyano). Whether this name is a real name, or merely an alias, the person who signed this name I think is a heavy candidate for being the boss.
Locke201
Posts: 1

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Locke201 » September 16th, 2017, 6:30 pm

In order to maybe get a hint who the boss of the BO might be ,I started reading the manga again.

While reading it appeared to me that the boss may be James Black. It was quite striking when he and Conan first met and Conan confronted him with the theory that he may be from London due to his accent. He replied that he was born in London, the city of Holme's but raised in Chicago, the City of Capone. Taking into account that Al Capone was one of the most "successful" criminals of the last century and the leader of his own Mafia family it came to my mind that Black referred to himself as first being the a decent man, as Holmes was when he lived in London. Always the one chasing justice.

But something must have happened to him. Maybe when he already has moved to the States to become the leader of the FBI what made him become the leader of the biggest criminal organization. Maybe it has something to do with Vermouth. Maybe it really has something to do with "raising", no like a child becoming an adult but like raising from the dead or raining in character traits due to his experiences. Maybe it was something that happened to his family which the Myanos might belong to or Vermouth or all of them.

There is a possibility that not criminal activities but the research conserving the drug was the original reason to found the organization and the only way for him to gain enough money to finance the research was the organized crime. Furthermore at the end of the aforementioned episode Conan wonders what James could mean. And it is not as Ai assumed James Bond that came to his mind but James Moriarty.

The one that is equal to Holmes someone that could be seen as his "cosmic antagonist". And Shinichi who could be seen as the Holmes of the whole story maybe has found his antagonist in James Black (I mean "Black"). And for him being British it is not unlikely that his real name may be Chekhov MacGuffin (the one that appeared in the Guestbook on the mermaid's island next to Shiho Miyano's)

I know there are a lot of "maybes" in this theory but I think there is a possibility for it to be true at least partly.
Last edited by Spimer on September 17th, 2017, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split text into paragraphs for easier reading, corrected grammar
ShadowNeo
User avatar

Fear of death is worse than death Itself.

Posts: 26

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby ShadowNeo » September 17th, 2017, 5:58 am

Locke201 wrote:In order to maybe get a hint who the boss of the BO might be ,I started reading the manga again.

While reading it appeared to me that the boss may be James Black. It was quite striking when he and Conan first met and Conan confronted him with the theory that he may be from London due to his accent. He replied that he was born in London, the city of Holme's but raised in Chicago, the City of Capone. Taking into account that Al Capone was one of the most "successful" criminals of the last century and the leader of his own Mafia family it came to my mind that Black referred to himself as first being the a decent man, as Holmes was when he lived in London. Always the one chasing justice.

But something must have happened to him. Maybe when he already has moved to the States to become the leader of the FBI what made him become the leader of the biggest criminal organization. Maybe it has something to do with Vermouth. Maybe it really has something to do with "raising", no like a child becoming an adult but like raising from the dead or raining in character traits due to his experiences. Maybe it was something that happened to his family which the Myanos might belong to or Vermouth or all of them.

There is a possibility that not criminal activities but the research conserving the drug was the original reason to found the organization and the only way for him to gain enough money to finance the research was the organized crime. Furthermore at the end of the aforementioned episode Conan wonders what James could mean. And it is not as Ai assumed James Bond that came to his mind but James Moriarty.

The one that is equal to Holmes someone that could be seen as his "cosmic antagonist". And Shinichi who could be seen as the Holmes of the whole story maybe has found his antagonist in James Black (I mean "Black"). And for him being British it is not unlikely that his real name may be Chekhov MacGuffin (the one that appeared in the Guestbook on the mermaid's island next to Shiho Miyano's)

I know there are a lot of "maybes" in this theory but I think there is a possibility for it to be true at least partly.


Well since Gosho said in an interview that James Black is NOT the BO Boss, there is not much more to say.
Last edited by Spimer on September 17th, 2017, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote post
"Fear of death is worse than death Itself"
CoolKid3
Posts: 526

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby CoolKid3 » October 29th, 2017, 8:30 am

Had there been any indication as to what alcoholic beverage anokata is representing? Not sure if this naming convention even matters.

Will it be Beer? Japanese Sake? Wine?

What badass liquor drink is left for the Boss?
If you think you are cooler than me then prove it, B*TCH!

Image
Spimer
Moderator
User avatar

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Force!

Posts: 895

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » October 29th, 2017, 4:33 pm

I think Gosho said in an interview (I might be wrong) that the boss doesn't necessarily have to use an alcohol-based code-name like the subordinates.
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
K.O.R.N
User avatar
Posts: 54

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby K.O.R.N » October 29th, 2017, 5:19 pm

CoolKid3 wrote:Had there been any indication as to what alcoholic beverage anokata is representing? Not sure if this naming convention even matters.

Will it be Beer? Japanese Sake? Wine?

What badass liquor drink is left for the Boss?


Pretty sure there's no indication on this. It could be an alcoholic name to fit the trend, some mysterious alcohol or something, which is cool. But honestly I would prefer the trend to be different when it comes to the Boss.
Scanlator
Nemomon
User avatar

This is my melody and it's just the raver's fantasy

Posts: 1110

Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Nemomon » October 30th, 2017, 5:06 am

The boss is known within the BO as "that person", so I doubt they have any nickname at all. Plus, the boss is the one to assign nicknames, so assigning one to themselves could lower their position to the position of a mere codenamed member, and I doubt the boss would want that. But it could be that the boss has two roles, one of being the boss, and second of a mere agent to move freely within the BO.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests

cron