Chekhov's theories about the plot

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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Swagnarok » September 16th, 2016, 3:20 pm

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if Kohji Haneda was the Akai father.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Spimer » September 16th, 2016, 3:30 pm

But how would it fit with what's been revealed about the Akai father recently?

Spoiler:
The Akai father left a message behind and vanished, his body hasn't been found (was still unknown 10 years before the current timeline yet it seems like he died around that time if he did indeed die)


Also, if he was the father why would Shuukichi call him his "brother-in-law" instead of "father"? Besides, his body was found at the hotel room he was at with the room a mess.

So I'm afraid things don't fit together in this case.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 16th, 2016, 4:20 pm

Spimer wrote:Besides, his body was found at the hotel room he was at with the room a mess.


Yeah, we see his right hand (File 948, Page 7) in the news article, with those scissor indentation marks, meaning his body was there at the time the photos were taken.

Spoiler:
Thus, Shuichi's thoughts in 973 about his father's corpse not being found don't make sense, if Koji Haneda is Mr. Akai.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Spimer » September 16th, 2016, 4:45 pm

@DCUniverseAficionado: exactly. Given the latest info I think we can safely assume that Haneda Kouji CANNOT be Mr. Akai.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » September 16th, 2016, 10:57 pm

For the whole thing, I feel like the timeline must go something like this

Shuukichi age and schooling
Spoiler:
(Where ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? means that they were outside Japan in a different school system)

Present day - age 28
01 years ago - age 27
02 years ago - age 26
03 years ago - age 25
04 years ago - age 24
05 years ago - age 23
06 years ago - 4th year of C - age 22
07 years ago - 3rd year of C - age 21
08 years ago - 2nd year of C - age 20
09 years ago - 1st year of C - age 19
10 years ago - 3rd year of HS - age 18 (Beach flashback, shortly after he changes family name to Haneda and leaves his family)
11 years ago - 2nd year of HS - age 17
12 years ago - 1st year of HS - age 16 (has Sera as family name)
13 years ago - 3rd year of MS - age 15
14 years ago - 2nd year of MS age 14
15 years ago - 1st year of MS - age 13
16 years ago - 6th year of ES - age 12
17 years ago - 5th year of ES - age 11 (Kouji is killed in US, Papa Akai dies, family moves to Japan, Shuuichi leaves for US)
18 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 10
19 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 09
20 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 08
21 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 07
22 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 06
23 years ago - age 05
24 years ago - age 04
25 years ago - age 03
26 years ago - age 02
27 years ago - age 01
28 years ago - birth


Masumi age and schooling
Spoiler:
(Where ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? means that they were outside Japan in a different school system)

Present day - 2nd year of HS - age 16 (Masumi and Mary return to Japan)
01 year ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 15
02 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 14
03 years ago - ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - age 13 (Masumi and Mary leave Japan)
04 years ago - 1st year of MS - age 12 (Masumi sees Shuuichi, Rei, and Scotch at the train station)
05 years ago - 6th year of ES - age 11
06 years ago - 5th year of ES - age 10
07 years ago - 4th year of ES - age 09
08 years ago - 3rd year of ES - age 08
09 years ago - 2nd year of ES - age 07
10 years ago - 1st year of ES - age 06 (Beach flashback)
11 years ago - age 05
12 years ago - age 04 (Shuukichi has Sera as a family name at this point)
13 years ago - age 03
14 years ago - age 02
15 years ago - age 01
16 years ago - birth
17 years ago - (Kouji is killed in US, Papa Akai dies, family moves to Japan, Shuuichi leaves for US)


Timeline combined stuff

> Shuichi is born

> 28 years ago Shuukichi born

> slightly over the 17 year ago mark Masumi is conceived, in that the parents slept together at this point

> 17 years ago the Kouji case itself happens, and the Akai dad is present in some respect, Akai dad is killed, Mary's pregnancy is starting to show. The family moves to the safety of Japan on the father's instructions by text message. Akai leaves his family for America to investigate

> 16 years ago Masumi is born while Akai was away

> 12 years ago Shuukichi enters High school with the family name Sera (High School in Japan is 3 years, so 12 years ago, 11 years ago and graduating at the end of 10 years ago)

> 10 years ago Shuichi is reunited with his family at the beach in Japan. Shuuichi says that Shuukichi must be in his 3rd year of High school. Later in the same year Shuukichi graduates High school and changes his name to Haneda, then meets Yumi. Presumably between when Shuuichi went back to America and when he would have gone into the BO, he would send Masumi Jeet-kune-do tapes while she is in Elementary school which would have been between 5 and 10 years ago. .

> 7-8 years ago, after getting 3 years work experience Akai can take the exam to enter the FBI. While in the FBI he meets Jodie and they presumably have some relationship

> 5 years ago Shuichi enters the BO through a fake relationship with Akemi, however it slowly grows into something real.

> 4 years ago Masumi enters Middle school in Japan. Masumi encounters Shuuichi, Rei, and Scotch at the train station.

> 3 years ago, something occurs that makes Masumi and her mother leave the safety of Japan, Masumi claims she was in America.

> 2 years ago Shuichi is outed as an FBI agent to the BO due to Camel's mistake.

> 1 year ago, Masumi enters High school while overseas and has her first year and a half there.

> Present, Akemi sends a message to Shuuichi before her heist.

> Present, Masumi returns to Japan for some portion of the second year of High school and is in Ran and Sonoko's class.
It really saddens me to see people continuing to talk about this series as if its dying or that they are losing interest in it. This has been one of my favorite series' since I first heard of it in 2005 and I have never looked back. I really hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Ran-dezvous » September 19th, 2016, 12:23 pm

As we're in the middle of a flashback case right now, this has been weighing on my mind lately, and I would really appreciate your input on the matter:

We all know that the series operates under a floating timeline, and thus, the technology in Conan evolves alongside with that of the the real world. Even flashback cases of recent past (i.e., 1-4 years before the current timeline) have characters using cellphones or smartphones, which makes sense since they have been around for several years now. But what about flashbacks from the more distant past, like from 10, 17, 20 years ago? Would it be reasonable to think that current real-world technology is available as well? Or would it be more prudent to not make any assumptions about the technological advances of that period?

Sorry for being longwinded. Hopefully, it's not a stupid question.

Also . . .
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jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:His dark skin too, there is a profound meaning behind it. (laughs) "


Yeah, I thought that's what that part (意味深だよね/imi fukadayone) meant.

Even so, I can't think of anything beyond one (or both) of his parents having dark skin, themselves.
My best guess is that he was a former burn victim, and that the incident had a major effect in his life. (Maybe his parents died in a fire, but he survived?) Arson's one of the tactics of the BO, after all, and his introduction case did involve fire. . . . Could be foreshadowing, for all we know.

I also tried looking into skin conditions that cause skin darkening, but no dice. (Or maybe my Google-fu skills just suck.)
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby k11chi » September 19th, 2016, 1:01 pm

Ran-dezvous wrote:As we're in the middle of a flashback case right now, this has been weighing on my mind lately, and I would really appreciate your input on the matter:

We all know that the series operates under a floating timeline, and thus, the technology in Conan evolves alongside with that of the the real world. Even flashback cases of recent past (i.e., 1-4 years before the current timeline) have characters using cellphones or smartphones, which makes sense since they have been around for several years now. But what about flashbacks from the more distant past, like from 10, 17, 20 years ago? Would it be reasonable to think that current real-world technology is available as well? Or would it be more prudent to not make any assumptions about the technological advances of that period?

Sorry for being longwinded. Hopefully, it's not a stupid question.

Also . . .
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:His dark skin too, there is a profound meaning behind it. (laughs) "


Yeah, I thought that's what that part (意味深だよね/imi fukadayone) meant.

Even so, I can't think of anything beyond one (or both) of his parents having dark skin, themselves.
My best guess is that he was a former burn victim, and that the incident had a major effect in his life. (Maybe his parents died in a fire, but he survived?) Arson's one of the tactics of the BO, after all, and his introduction case did involve fire. . . . Could be foreshadowing, for all we know.

I also tried looking into skin conditions that cause skin darkening, but no dice. (Or maybe my Google-fu skills just suck.)

For that we would have to have in-canon proof. Unless it's shown then it should still be considered the same technology. If it gets shown in some flashback with Rum that they had "old-type" technology then we'd go with that.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 19th, 2016, 2:26 pm

k11chi wrote:
Ran-dezvous wrote:As we're in the middle of a flashback case right now, this has been weighing on my mind lately, and I would really appreciate your input on the matter:

We all know that the series operates under a floating timeline, and thus, the technology in Conan evolves alongside with that of the the real world. Even flashback cases of recent past (i.e., 1-4 years before the current timeline) have characters using cellphones or smartphones, which makes sense since they have been around for several years now. But what about flashbacks from the more distant past, like from 10, 17, 20 years ago? Would it be reasonable to think that current real-world technology is available as well? Or would it be more prudent to not make any assumptions about the technological advances of that period?

Sorry for being longwinded. Hopefully, it's not a stupid question.

Also . . .
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:His dark skin too, there is a profound meaning behind it. (laughs) "


Yeah, I thought that's what that part (意味深だよね/imi fukadayone) meant.

Even so, I can't think of anything beyond one (or both) of his parents having dark skin, themselves.
My best guess is that he was a former burn victim, and that the incident had a major effect in his life. (Maybe his parents died in a fire, but he survived?) Arson's one of the tactics of the BO, after all, and his introduction case did involve fire. . . . Could be foreshadowing, for all we know.

I also tried looking into skin conditions that cause skin darkening, but no dice. (Or maybe my Google-fu skills just suck.)

For that we would have to have in-canon proof. Unless it's shown then it should still be considered the same technology. If it gets shown in some flashback with Rum that they had "old-type" technology then we'd go with that.


Spoiler:
The current case has Yusaku and Yukiko both using smart phones.

As far as I know, the first smart phones started gaining popularity in the mid-late 2000s (2006-2009). We're in the mid-late 2010s, now, so ten years ago would allow for smart phones.

By comparison, Ran and Shinichi – First Contact (File 921–File 924) has Yusauku and Yukiko using flip phones. That case took place 13 years ago, meaning it would've taken place (as of right now, in the mid-late 2010s) in the early 2000s, before smart phones started getting popular.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » September 19th, 2016, 3:09 pm

Ran-dezvous wrote:As we're in the middle of a flashback case right now, this has been weighing on my mind lately, and I would really appreciate your input on the matter:

We all know that the series operates under a floating timeline, and thus, the technology in Conan evolves alongside with that of the the real world. Even flashback cases of recent past (i.e., 1-4 years before the current timeline) have characters using cellphones or smartphones, which makes sense since they have been around for several years now. But what about flashbacks from the more distant past, like from 10, 17, 20 years ago? Would it be reasonable to think that current real-world technology is available as well? Or would it be more prudent to not make any assumptions about the technological advances of that period?


Technology in flashbacks seem to evolve along with real life as well. 10 years ago from a chapter in 2005 will have different technology from a chapter that is 10 years ago from today.

13 years ago - RanGIRL / ShinichiBOY (V87) - Flip phones

10 years ago - Childhood Adventure (V55) - No cell phones, police can only contact Yusaku through house phone, which he unplugged so editors can't reach him.

10 years ago - Akai Family at Beach (V92) - Smart phones since father Akai's last message is also on a smart phone they might have existed up to 17 years ago.

about 10 years ago - Shuukichi on train (V85) - Flip phones

3 years ago - Jinpei Matsuda case (V36) - Flip phones

3 years ago - Yuki Onna case (V50) - Flip phones

1 year ago - Aquarium case (V84) - Smart phones

----------------------------------

current year - Beginning of series (V01) - Kogoro House phones with cord (ch02), Police brick cell phone (ch02), Company President and Yoko cordless house phones (ch03, 06), Bad Guy Flip phone (ch04) and Conan Phone booth (ch09)

current year - Akemi's message to Akai (V58) - was sent to Akai's flip phone

current year - Detective's Nocturne (V76) - First smart phones that I could find. Conan has one of the cover of 796, but doesn't actually use it in this case. Haibara, Bourbon, and Vermouth do have them though. Conan is shown using his in the beginning of the next case 801.
It really saddens me to see people continuing to talk about this series as if its dying or that they are losing interest in it. This has been one of my favorite series' since I first heard of it in 2005 and I have never looked back. I really hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby MoonRaven » September 20th, 2016, 3:37 am

Great research work, Kudo. And we mustn't forget pagers either.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 20th, 2016, 4:44 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:10 years ago - Akai Family at Beach (V92) - Smart phones since father Akai's last message is also on a smart phone they might have existed up to 17 years ago.


When we hit 2023, 17 years ago will be 2006. I guess if the manga goes on for that long, having smart phones 17 years ago would work... but the phone booths, the brick phones and even the flip phones... well...
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Tenryu » October 3rd, 2016, 11:23 pm

new readers will have another mystery to be solved...
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby ginandjuice » November 1st, 2016, 1:43 pm

Please correct me if I'm using this thread in a wrong way but I've been thinking of something for a while.
So we all know that Vermouth is a little more.. human than other B.O members and we've established that she is forever young and that she dislikes the science Shiho's parents were conducting. "Don't blame me, blame your foolish parents" (reservations if wrongly cited) - it seems to me that Vermouth's (only) aim wasn't to kill Sherry because she was a traitor but also because of her work.
Before the bell tree express she also says something along the lines of "Forigve me Silver Bullet but Sherry isn't someone that should stay alive" which sparked my theory - what if Vermouth wants Sherry dead for the sake of the greater good? She may be aware of a risk of Sherry being recaptured by the B.O which would lead to her research to continue which Vermouth may think is a really really bad thing. This would also explain a theory I've seen here before about why the current timeline stays in less than a year, and the reason Vermouth doesn't tell about Conan and haibara being shrunken is because it would out her youth secret as well.

Apologies if this theory has already been discussed.
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Spimer » November 1st, 2016, 6:34 pm

I agree with you in the fact that Vermouth hates Haibara for the research she's conducting

But time doesn't pass in Conan because it's a "floating timeline": characters don't age but the surroundings reflect the changes around them: I don't think Vermouth's condition has anything to do with it. "Floating timeline" is used on many other works as well so it's nothing new.

There's a little something to point out: in the magazine version of the Haibara Vs Vermouth file, Vermouth's words were:
"If you want to hate someone fr this hate your parents, who inherited this foolish research"

Yet, when the file was compiled in the volume, Gosho changed her line to:
"If you want to hate someone for this hate your parents, who began this foolish research"

It could be that he initially was planning to explain that the "research" (possibly inmortality/unaging) had actually been begun by someone else and the Miyanos continued researching on the initial idea/research yet he changed his mind and changed it so that the Miyanos were the ones who began the research.

It's been speculated and theorized that Vermouth might've been involved in an experiment involving something related to the "Silver Bullet" Haibara's mother talked about on the tapes or a prototype version of APTX 4869 that makes her unable to age: hence why she assumes different identities from time to time to hide that (Sharon & Chris).

Maybe her words of "we can be like God and the Demon, since we are trying to raise the dead against the stream of time" could be applied to her condition as well: Haibara also said "if humans try to go against time they will be punished".
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby ginandjuice » November 2nd, 2016, 4:36 pm

You raise some good points, Spimer. I guess we just have to wait and see.

--

Change of topic, regarding Gin's age as mentioned in the pinned post, I was always under the impression that he was in his late 20s or in the 30s, because as the series progresses his features become more handsome and less... harsh in some ways. But in the drama Gin's actor look way older which made me wonder if he is meant to be quite old-ish?

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