Forensic Science Questions

[kyuuketsuki]

Such fingerprints can be visualized as long as the material remains.

Does that means as long as the material that have a fingerprint on it is kept safe (undisturbed or untouched), the fingerprint will remain there forever?

There have been several studies on the lifetime of latent prints. The results are widely varying, and depend highly on the factors at hand. As I said the composition of the print has a lot to do with it, the environment and physical stresses, and other factors are taken into consideration. However, it is a known fact that latent prints do not last forever. There is just no way for that to be possible, unless the print is vacuum sealed and left untouched. Even if the latent print is left undisturbed, there are environmental factors that can lead to its destruction, and if it a sweat or oil print it can breakdown on its own in an outside environment on certain surfaces. However, there have been cases where a good latent print has been lifted off of a well retaining surface 40 years after it had been left. However, the occurrence of cases like that are sparse.

This is why they invented Latent Fingerprint Lifting kits, and fingerprint tape. Once a latent print is detected or noticed on a surface a picture is taken, and a visualization method is used and preserved. If a powder is used, then tape is used to preserve the visualized print, and it is bagged for evidence. Because, in the end, you have no guarantee that print will last any longer than a few hours on the scene of a crime.

[Shimizu.Zed]

Thanks!
this is a really useful info for my story...
well, I like to write stories...mysteries mostly...but just for fun...

Thanks!

[dmaxx]

OMG I should have found this topic earlier!! OMGG

I have lots of questions but i'll make it one by one xD

Im a Nursing graduate and I would like to take Forensic as my field. If I would study it, how many years would I take it? And would Criminalistics be available for Forensic Nursing?

Question #1: Depends on if you are going for your masters or your Ph.D (Assuming you already have your undergraduate) Like any graduate program, it could take anywhere from 3 years minimum - about 6 (if all goes well for your Ph.D). Undergraduate Forensics takes 4 years like any other degree.

Question #2: To my knowledge... there is no such thing as forensic nursing. There is forensic anthropology, forensic odontology, criminalistics, molecular biology as well as a few others. Naturally there is also being a Medical Examiner...

What about forensic psychology ?  Do you know anyone who practises this profession ?

These people are portrayed in the media (in TV shows) like all knowing individuals who can deduce the criminals next move easily. Is it too far from reality?

I will not exact say im a expert as i have not really taken any education and only have "study"on my freetime since i was little but as far as i concern if u have the right information u can make a qualified guessing on what the criminal next move will be based on psychology,Sociology,victimology,criminology and behaviorism,even then u can only be around 70/80% sure(thereof the word "qualified guess")but with psychology alone?,no,is just too little to go on,it depends also on what other forensic evidence u can add to the list,more u have to go on thees better,

i would like to write a whole page of this topic but is pretty late where im now and half my head is in sleep mode so i will ending up write to much>__<

[kyuuketsuki]

OMG I should have found this topic earlier!! OMGG

I have lots of questions but i'll make it one by one xD

Im a Nursing graduate and I would like to take Forensic as my field. If I would study it, how many years would I take it? And would Criminalistics be available for Forensic Nursing?

Question #1: Depends on if you are going for your masters or your Ph.D (Assuming you already have your undergraduate) Like any graduate program, it could take anywhere from 3 years minimum - about 6 (if all goes well for your Ph.D). Undergraduate Forensics takes 4 years like any other degree.

Question #2: To my knowledge... there is no such thing as forensic nursing. There is forensic anthropology, forensic odontology, criminalistics, molecular biology as well as a few others. Naturally there is also being a Medical Examiner...

What about forensic psychology ?  Do you know anyone who practises this profession ?

These people are portrayed in the media (in TV shows) like all knowing individuals who can deduce the criminals next move easily. Is it too far from reality?

I will not exact say im a expert as i have not really taken any education and only have "study"on my freetime since i was little but as far as i concern if u have the right information u can make a qualified guessing on what the criminal next move will be based on psychology,Sociology,victimology,criminology and behaviorism,even then u can only be around 70/80% sure(thereof the word "qualified guess")but with psychology alone?,no,is just too little to go on,it depends also on what other forensic evidence u can add to the list,more u have to go on thees better,

i would like to write a whole page of this topic but is pretty late where im now and half my head is in sleep mode so i will ending up write to much>__<

What you say is true... Usually those people portrayed in TV Shows are in the level of superhuman. In reality the best a team can do is predict to a maximum of 70-80% certainty, and that is if there is sufficient evidence, and a solid pattern from previous offences. The problem is that real world crime isn't nearly that clean. That is why there are serial killers who have never been caught, and likely never will. That is why there are dozens of cold cases that will remain unsolved well past the statute of limitations.

There are criminal psychologists who have their degree only in forensic or criminal psychology (aka criminology), and have sufficient knowledge in other fields to make good guesses on patterns. The really fantastic ones usually get picked up by the FBI or other federal agency. But even they cannot make 100% accurate guesses. Think of it this way... Can you predict what your best friend, or even some family members will do 100% of the time? Chances are you can't and you've known them for a long time, and know their patterns or way of thinking entirely. So how would someone, despite being a professional, in that field be able to do the same with limited knowledge of the person. They can make really good educated guesses, but that is as far as it will ever go.

[A.E.]

Firstly, I've been avoiding this thread for the longest time, thinking that I would be lost in the sea of jargon and technicalities, had I considered to enter and start reading any of the posts; it wasn't so bad, though.
Secondly, and after I read all the questions, it encouraged me to ask you this one,
What are some of the blatant exaggerations and dramatisations forensics-wise in Detective Conan? Can you give an example off the top of your head?
The only one I can think of (I may be wrong, though) is how readily the detectives (whether it's Kogorou, Heiji, Conan, etc) can give a relatively accurate, estimated time of death, based on their examination of rigor mortis.

[dmaxx]

Firstly, I've been avoiding this thread for the longest time, thinking that I would be lost in the sea of jargon and technicalities, had I considered to enter and start reading any of the posts; it wasn't so bad, though.
Secondly, and after I read all the questions, it encouraged me to ask you this one,
What are some of the blatant exaggerations and dramatisations forensics-wise in Detective Conan? Can you give an example off the top of your head?
The only one I can think of (I may be wrong, though) is how readily the detectives (whether it's Kogorou, Heiji, Conan, etc) can give a relatively accurate, estimated time of death, based on their examination of rigor mortis.

i tough i do answer this a little when i tough im sure someone else have already answer that somewhere else on the webs so i did a little search and figure i do the easy way and just copy-paste the explanation instead(why invent the weel when u have one already?)

"it depends on how long the person has been dead. if the body is still warm and has not entered rigor, they can probably get within a half an hour, based on liver temperature. but this also depends on environmental conditions, like outside temperature, which can make it less accurate.

after a body has entered rigor, they can only be accurate to within an hour or two, maybe even less accurate. once the body has begun the later stages of decomposition, it gets even harder to be accurate, because decomp is affected by many environmental factors.

it also depends on how the body is preserved - frozen bodies can appear only recently-dead when defrosted."

i will just leave it like that and then u can ask future question about what u wanna know instead of i write alot of rubble that may not be interesting for u^^

[kyuuketsuki]

Firstly, I've been avoiding this thread for the longest time, thinking that I would be lost in the sea of jargon and technicalities, had I considered to enter and start reading any of the posts; it wasn't so bad, though.
Secondly, and after I read all the questions, it encouraged me to ask you this one,
What are some of the blatant exaggerations and dramatisations forensics-wise in Detective Conan? Can you give an example off the top of your head?
The only one I can think of (I may be wrong, though) is how readily the detectives (whether it's Kogorou, Heiji, Conan, etc) can give a relatively accurate, estimated time of death, based on their examination of rigor mortis.

First, I'm purposefully avoiding jargon. This topic is to promote understanding, and that can't be done if people don't get the terminology. So if something is unavoidable, I'll do my best to explain it...

As for within Conan... I probably could, but not without mixing up AOs with Manga Files.... there are too many.... Its almost 20 years old after all... I think the biggest problems are with material tensile strength. A few of the tricks require string or something thin that tend to not have sufficient tensile strength to support the trick. But I can't think of any off the top of my head. There are more than a few examples. However to Gosho's credit, most of the tricks are theoretically possible, but highly unlikely due to real world conditions.

As for rigor mortis to determine time of death... Well now, dmaxx's quote is almost entirely right. In the field, almost 100% of the time, time of death is determined by a combination of liver temperature and rigor mortis if it has set in. Generally approximations are good to within about an hour or so. However, real approximations of time of death are almost always done in autopsy. There they can determine a lot more and find out a more exact time frame of death. Assuming nothing was done to divert the timing like freezing or modifying of the environmental conditions, time of death approximations are pretty accurate...

Within Conan, it is actually fairly well portrayed.... It is probably one of the things Gosho has down pretty rock solid, which is why he probably uses it so often. I suspect it is because his brother is in the medical field (or so I have heard). But yeah, he does pretty well with that...

[A.E.]

Firstly, I've been avoiding this thread for the longest time, thinking that I would be lost in the sea of jargon and technicalities, had I considered to enter and start reading any of the posts; it wasn't so bad, though.
Secondly, and after I read all the questions, it encouraged me to ask you this one,
What are some of the blatant exaggerations and dramatisations forensics-wise in Detective Conan? Can you give an example off the top of your head?
The only one I can think of (I may be wrong, though) is how readily the detectives (whether it's Kogorou, Heiji, Conan, etc) can give a relatively accurate, estimated time of death, based on their examination of rigor mortis.

First, I'm purposefully avoiding jargon. This topic is to promote understanding, and that can't be done if people don't get the terminology. So if something is unavoidable, I'll do my best to explain it...

As for within Conan... I probably could, but not without mixing up AOs with Manga Files.... there are too many.... Its almost 20 years old after all... I think the biggest problems are with material tensile strength. A few of the tricks require string or something thin that tend to not have sufficient tensile strength to support the trick. But I can't think of any off the top of my head. There are more than a few examples. However to Gosho's credit, most of the tricks are theoretically possible, but highly unlikely due to real world conditions.

As for rigor mortis to determine time of death... Well now, dmaxx's quote is almost entirely right. In the field, almost 100% of the time, time of death is determined by a combination of liver temperature and rigor mortis if it has set in. Generally approximations are good to within about an hour or so. However, real approximations of time of death are almost always done in autopsy. There they can determine a lot more and find out a more exact time frame of death. Assuming nothing was done to divert the timing like freezing or modifying of the environmental conditions, time of death approximations are pretty accurate...

Within Conan, it is actually fairly well portrayed.... It is probably one of the things Gosho has down pretty rock solid, which is why he probably uses it so often. I suspect it is because his brother is in the medical field (or so I have heard). But yeah, he does pretty well with that...

Thank you much!!
I appreciate the fact that you have avoided AO's; I'm pretty sure non-manga based episodes have far more inaccuracies since their creators are way too liberal with the impractical or unrealistic material they produce...
I just wanted to make sure that I'm not being overly fooled by Gosho.
Thanks again!