Forensic Science Questions

[bash7353]

Hey,

this seems like an interessting topic, so I' ll just drop a question for you here.
I've always assumed that all plots in CSI and in all the other popular television shows, even those not dealing with criminoligy or forensics, are highly adapted according to what the producers think most people would like. Caring more about big ratings than creating a good TV show is where I've seen the big difference between your braodcast networks and the cable or pay-TV networks.
So my question is, how close do you think are shows like FX's The Shiled and HBO's The Wire to reality. I obviously don't know whether you've seen episodes of these shows, but I'd be real interessted in that. Especially The Wire is always liked by many critics for its realistic portrait of urban life. Does the same thing apply to the forensic part of their police work?

googleeearth

[kyuuketsuki]

Hey,

this seems like an interessting topic, so I' ll just drop a question for you here.
I've always assumed that all plots in CSI and in all the other popular television shows, even those not dealing with criminoligy or forensics, are highly adapted according to what the producers think most people would like. Caring more about big ratings than creating a good TV show is where I've seen the big difference between your braodcast networks and the cable or pay-TV networks.
So my question is, how close do you think are shows like FX's The Shiled and HBO's The Wire to reality. I obviously don't know whether you've seen episodes of these shows, but I'd be real interessted in that. Especially The Wire is always liked by many critics for its realistic portrait of urban life. Does the same thing apply to the forensic part of their police work?

googleeearth

Link me to examples and I'd let you know... As it stands, I'm not too familiar with those shows... If I were to guess, I'd probably say not, since forensics is not that glamorous and not all too exciting...

[bash7353]

Hey,

this seems like an interessting topic, so I' ll just drop a question for you here.
I've always assumed that all plots in CSI and in all the other popular television shows, even those not dealing with criminoligy or forensics, are highly adapted according to what the producers think most people would like. Caring more about big ratings than creating a good TV show is where I've seen the big difference between your braodcast networks and the cable or pay-TV networks.
So my question is, how close do you think are shows like FX's The Shiled and HBO's The Wire to reality. I obviously don't know whether you've seen episodes of these shows, but I'd be real interessted in that. Especially The Wire is always liked by many critics for its realistic portrait of urban life. Does the same thing apply to the forensic part of their police work?

googleeearth

Link me to examples and I'd let you know... As it stands, I'm not too familiar with those shows... If I were to guess, I'd probably say not, since forensics is not that glamorous and not all too exciting...

I just thought I'd contradict your statemeant that e.g. DNA testing that 5 days minimum. On one case that two detectives in The Shield are on, that is solved within 2 or 3 episodes they find a cut-off arm which they can't be sure belongs to a body that's already dead. That made the detectives put "a rush" on the DNA, so they could find the rest of the person very soon. For all they knew she was lying somewhere bleeding out. About a day into that one detective calls the lab and asks why they haven't gotten back to him for the results yet as this was a priortity. They replied that a dead body's arm can't be that urgent, then the detective said that they can't be sure the person's dead alreday but she might be if they don't find her soon. Qoute: "I'd hate your backlog to cost that woman her life." Few hours after that they know who she is....

[kyuuketsuki]

@googleearth: I am well aware... In general it takes 5 days, and if you read all of my relies you'd see why this is. In practice, if there is no back up, it can take as little as 8 hours (schillok expanded on that, since he is a molecular biologist). However... in the real world there is a LOT of red tape to get through and even more back up in the DNA lab. Even if a rush is put on it, I doubt it would get clearance for it to be done in one day, unless a) the person from whom the severed arm came from is still alive (highly unlikely, death from blood loss from a severed limb doesn't take very long), b) it is a very high profile case (public figure is involved somehow) or c) if it is a serial killer who will strike again and time is of the essence. (There are probably more, but none that I can think of off the top of my head)

Also, it would be great if you didn't use any show as a reference. The ONLY show that is 100% accurate for forensic science is Forensic Files. Every other show is dramatized, and therefore you never see the real science. The next closest is NCIS, but even that is skewed with time, either that or the time is SEVERELY misrepresented. The entire point of this thread is to get people away from the TV concepts of forensic science.

[nomemory]

I have a question. In DC people often get poisoned with potassium cyanide which is easily recognised since it smells like almonds, or so they say. Is the scent really that noticeable? I've also heard that it doesn't smell almonds, but bitter almonds which doesn't really smell the same at all iirc.

[kyuuketsuki]

I have a question. In DC people often get poisoned with potassium cyanide which is easily recognised since it smells like almonds, or so they say. Is the scent really that noticeable? I've also heard that it doesn't smell almonds, but bitter almonds which doesn't really smell the same at all iirc.

The scent is noticeable and it does smell of [bitter] almonds. If you can smell it, it is quite noticeable. And, yes, though bitter almonds don't smell exactly like almonds, you can tell they are both almonds, at least I think so....

[Schillok]

I have a question. In DC people often get poisoned with potassium cyanide which is easily recognised since it smells like almonds, or so they say. Is the scent really that noticeable? I've also heard that it doesn't smell almonds, but bitter almonds which doesn't really smell the same at all iirc.

The scent is noticeable and it does smell of [bitter] almonds. If you can smell it, it is quite noticeable. And, yes, though bitter almonds don't smell exactly like almonds, you can tell they are both almonds, at least I think so....

I also think not everyone can smell KCN. Meaning the genetic disposition of some people allows them to notice the almond-like smell, while others are just missing the receptors for it.
So... chances are you would not notice it at all. Or maybe you are like Conan and can smell it without a problem.

Of course it also allows the writers of mysteries to use KCN easily - just make the victim not able to smell it (While the inevitable detective is able to do so) and you have a very easy to determine - but reasonable - way of death.

[4869]

OMG I should have found this topic earlier!! OMGG

I have lots of questions but i'll make it one by one xD

Im a Nursing graduate and I would like to take Forensic as my field. If I would study it, how many years would I take it? And would Criminalistics be available for Forensic Nursing?

Question #1: Depends on if you are going for your masters or your Ph.D (Assuming you already have your undergraduate) Like any graduate program, it could take anywhere from 3 years minimum - about 6 (if all goes well for your Ph.D). Undergraduate Forensics takes 4 years like any other degree.

Question #2: To my knowledge... there is no such thing as forensic nursing. There is forensic anthropology, forensic odontology, criminalistics, molecular biology as well as a few others. Naturally there is also being a Medical Examiner...

What about forensic psychology ?  Do you know anyone who practises this profession ?

These people are portrayed in the media (in TV shows) like all knowing individuals who can deduce the criminals next move easily. Is it too far from reality?

[kyuuketsuki]

I just went through the sciences... Forensic psychology is not really a science. And I know next to nothing about the realities of forensic psychology. My school does offer it... but... forensic scientists and forensic psychologists don't exactly interact...  If I do happen to meet one I'll let you know...

[4869]

I just went through the sciences... Forensic psychology is not really a science. And I know next to nothing about the realities of forensic psychology. My school does offer it... but... forensic scientists and forensic psychologists don't exactly interact...  If I do happen to meet one I'll let you know...

Thank you.

Could you please PM me the name of your school or schools you recommend I'm kinda interested in studying Forensic science or Criminology ?  

[kyuuketsuki]

I just went through the sciences... Forensic psychology is not really a science. And I know next to nothing about the realities of forensic psychology. My school does offer it... but... forensic scientists and forensic psychologists don't exactly interact...  If I do happen to meet one I'll let you know...

Thank you.

Could you please PM me the name of your school or schools you recommend I'm kinda interested in studying Forensic science or Criminology ? 

Sending you a PM

[4869]

I just went through the sciences... Forensic psychology is not really a science. And I know next to nothing about the realities of forensic psychology. My school does offer it... but... forensic scientists and forensic psychologists don't exactly interact...  If I do happen to meet one I'll let you know...

Thank you.

Could you please PM me the name of your school or schools you recommend I'm kinda interested in studying Forensic science or Criminology ? 

Sending you a PM

I greatly appreciate it

[Shimizu.Zed]

I was just wondering...how long would a fingerprint last on an item...is it forever or will it fade out after some time...and does the type or material of the item surface can affect it?

Thanks in advance...

[kyuuketsuki]

I was just wondering...how long would a fingerprint last on an item...is it forever or will it fade out after some time...and does the type or material of the item surface can affect it?

Thanks in advance...

Depends on the type of fingerprint. There are 3 main types... The type you are probably thinking of is latent prints. In other words those created by the finger touching a surface and the transfer of materials resulting from that contact. Whether it be the oil from the body or what have you. Such fingerprints can be visualized as long as the material remains. Which is to say they don't last very long, which is why latent prints are pretty horrid for evidentiary purposes, especially since they need to be visualized somehow. This is often done by powders and photography (it is amazing what the right angle and light can do).

The other two types last much longer. The other popular type is visible prints. You have done this probably, likely with ink or blood. And the amount of time it lasts is much longer, usually dependent on the medium. Water soluble ink obviously would not last long. However other things can last quite long.

Plastic prints are the last type which is another thing you have likely done. Usually with things like silly putty. Lasts as long as the medium stays in tact. If it is a medium like soft plastic that hardens, it can last a long time.

[Shimizu.Zed]

Such fingerprints can be visualized as long as the material remains.

Does that means as long as the material that have a fingerprint on it is kept safe (undisturbed or untouched), the fingerprint will remain there forever?