Mafia Round 14 - The town strikes back (Town Wins!)

[Akonyl]

THE SINGLE MOST DEBILITATING THING for the BO group in any round is this:

Lack of communication

- invariably, at least one BO will "disappear" or not be around close enough to the phase change to change their action

In this round, it seemed it may have been more pronounced because 1) Beastly, and 2) BO might not have trusted each other enough (due to PO confusion) to give control of their actions to another BO player that would be online close to phase change.

this was one of the main things I felt, simply because you're unaware of what everyone else's objectives are (and the knowledge that someone's supposed to betray you all) so you don't really know who should be doing what. When I was talking about who to kill, pofa ended up PMing me herself and saying to not say much, because we weren't sure if someone was interfering/handing off the info or not.

was it what caused the BO to fail? Yeah, probably not entirely, there was a bit of bad luck as well. But when you can't plan effectively because you don't trust anyone, and both detectors end up detecting for the same people because of it, yeah that's annoying.

[Dus]

Well, I think we didn't win because of the POs, but because we got a 90% trust alliance of six very early on. Xpon's PO kinda worked in our favour, since we didn't have to worry about the leak in their group any more. It also made us the main/only force against the BO and their feeble attempts to invade our alliance were too little too late. They might have done better if they didn't have to waste time on finding the traitors, though.
Two minor corrections: Breva DID try to complete her BO (even if she didn't need to anymore) and got to the letter Y(!).
Kain is female.
One major correction: While we knew about items that got stolen, we had no idea who Akemi was supposed to be. Kleene's two investigations were a shot in the dark. But DT's behaviour after Conan's death gave the game away.

Anyway, I really liked them and if ever GM a round then I will probably include. I just wouldn't give everybody a PO, so that traitors can blend in more easily. Maybe we can even have one or two of them in Round 15?

[Schillok]

THE SINGLE MOST DEBILITATING THING for the BO group in any round is this:

Lack of communication

- invariably, at least one BO will "disappear" or not be around close enough to the phase change to change their action

In this round, it seemed it may have been more pronounced because 1) Beastly, and 2) BO might not have trusted each other enough (due to PO confusion) to give control of their actions to another BO player that would be online close to phase change.

this was one of the main things I felt, simply because you're unaware of what everyone else's objectives are (and the knowledge that someone's supposed to betray you all) so you don't really know who should be doing what. When I was talking about who to kill, pofa ended up PMing me herself and saying to not say much, because we weren't sure if someone was interfering/handing off the info or not.

was it what caused the BO to fail? Yeah, probably not entirely, there was a bit of bad luck as well. But when you can't plan effectively because you don't trust anyone, and both detectors end up detecting for the same people because of it, yeah that's annoying.

Well... actually that "distrust" was put in deliberately for the BO. I mean... they are the BO! Vermouth is doing her own thing, keeping threats to the BO alive. Keeping everyone in the dark about her true motives. Bourbon is walking around the town, having an assignment without telling Gin what exactly he(?) is up to. Sherry did not know much about other members as well. Even Vodka knows that he needs to be careful around Vermouth. And Akemi has even less of an idea what she got herself into. How much are the other members trusting "Kir"?  And let's not talk about poor Irish here...
Distrust among the members IS canon. I wanted to try to include it. But it looks like it worked too well...

Ohh, and... not all of the BO knew that some PO could have negative consequences on other members (More exactly: Knew nothing  about the existence of intrigues). For example Akonyl and xpon should not have been concerned about it too much.


Or rather, while the BOs PO worked to get the right "feeling", it broke the gameplay. Despite how bothersome and unrealistic the BO happily working together to bring down the town - and the town distrusting each other for the longest time - might be, it is how the game works. Next time a GM brings distrust into the BO he/she should compensate for it better. Even if it is just by increasing the numbers of BOs (and thus possible traitors ).

[Akonyl]

Well... actually that "distrust" was put in deliberately for the BO. I mean... they are the BO! Vermouth is doing her own thing, keeping threats to the BO alive. Keeping everyone in the dark about her true motives. Bourbon is walking around the town, having an assignment without telling Gin what exactly he(?) is up to. Sherry did not know much about other members as well. Even Vodka knows that he needs to be careful around Vermouth. And Akemi has even less of an idea what she got herself into. How much are the other members trusting "Kir"?  And let's not talk about poor Irish here...
Distrust among the members IS canon. I wanted to try to include it. But it looks like it worked too well...

Ohh, and... not all of the BO knew that some PO could have negative consequences on other members (More exactly: Knew nothing  about the existence of intrigues). For example Akonyl and xpon should not have been concerned about it too much.


Or rather, while the BOs PO worked to get the right "feeling", it broke the gameplay. Despite how bothersome and unrealistic the BO happily working together to bring down the town - and the town distrusting each other for the longest time - might be, it is how the game works. Next time a GM brings distrust into the BO he/she should compensate for it better. Even if it is just by increasing the numbers of BOs (and thus possible traitors ).

I'm aware you put it in there pretty deliberately , but there's a separation between what makes sense in the context of the show and what makes the game more balanced, here. I mean, if the game was like the show, 80% of the townie roles would have no abilities because they don't know anything about the BO anyway, and thus wouldn't be hunting for them.

[Abs.]

The possibility of BO/Town lovers is enough to breed distrust, IMO

Just got to beef the lovers up a little so that they can be more of a threat and actually win - perhaps extra abilities. For example: The Power of Love - One day phase and one night phase per game, the lovers may choose to protect each other from ordinary killings (excluding snipe, APTX) - however the protecting player will be injured if the protection was needed

[Akonyl]

The possibility of BO/Town lovers is enough to breed distrust, IMO

Just got to beef the lovers up a little so that they can be more of a threat and actually win - perhaps extra abilities. For example: The Power of Love - One day phase and one night phase per game, the lovers may choose to protect each other from ordinary killings (excluding snipe, APTX) - however the protecting player will be injured if the protection was needed

I suggested a similar thing at one point, but people didn't like the idea of the lovers running away to have sloppy makeouts in order to not be killable that one night (because they can't be found).

[Abs.]

Right, I forgot about the sloppy makeouts

[Vylash]

i'm sure you did

[Yurikochan]

The possibility of BO/Town lovers is enough to breed distrust, IMO

Just got to beef the lovers up a little so that they can be more of a threat and actually win - perhaps extra abilities. For example: The Power of Love - One day phase and one night phase per game, the lovers may choose to protect each other from ordinary killings (excluding snipe, APTX) - however the protecting player will be injured if the protection was needed

I suggested a similar thing at one point, but people didn't like the idea of the lovers running away to have sloppy makeouts in order to not be killable that one night (because they can't be found).

But you also suggested the BO have to guess what house they were in or something if I recall correctly.

[Akonyl]

The possibility of BO/Town lovers is enough to breed distrust, IMO

Just got to beef the lovers up a little so that they can be more of a threat and actually win - perhaps extra abilities. For example: The Power of Love - One day phase and one night phase per game, the lovers may choose to protect each other from ordinary killings (excluding snipe, APTX) - however the protecting player will be injured if the protection was needed

I suggested a similar thing at one point, but people didn't like the idea of the lovers running away to have sloppy makeouts in order to not be killable that one night (because they can't be found).

But you also suggested the BO have to guess what house they were in or something if I recall correctly.

nah, I just said that all actions on them should fail. The thing about "guessing which house they're in" (if that was me at all) was probably because people were saying that it didn't make sense for the BO to give up on trying to find their target so easily and I was just trying to justify it.

[Kleene Onigiri]

I liked the idea for the lovers :x
And sloppy makeouts FTW

[Akonyl]

I liked the idea for the lovers :x
And sloppy makeouts FTW

I knew I could count on you to back me up on sloppy makeouts!

[Detective Tommy]

The lovers idea is interesting. Since they've only won once...

[PT]

The lovers idea is interesting. Since they've only won once...

In Ako-chan's head, they've never won.

Anyway.

@the lovers: I agree that they need to have some sort of ability that protects them somehow or gives them any sort of advantage. Right now, the only advantage they have is knowing each others' identity. (Well, and with BO-Town lovers, there's the chance of the BO lover giving away his/her buddies, but.) Other than that, it's a complete disadvantage to be a lover, since it's nearly impossible to pull of a lovers' win. Basically, if you're same side lovers, it's easier to just win with your side, and if you're BO-Town, you're just hoping/waiting to be the last ones killed.

[Eve]

The lovers idea is interesting. Since they've only won once...

In Ako-chan's head, they've never won.

Anyway.

@the lovers: I agree that they need to have some sort of ability that protects them somehow or gives them any sort of advantage. Right now, the only advantage they have is knowing each others' identity. (Well, and with BO-Town lovers, there's the chance of the BO lover giving away his/her buddies, but.) Other than that, it's a complete disadvantage to be a lover, since it's nearly impossible to pull of a lovers' win. Basically, if you're same side lovers, it's easier to just win with your side, and if you're BO-Town, you're just hoping/waiting to be the last ones killed.

1. Even though I was not there when that round was going on, but reading makes me agree with Akonyl, that lover pair did not win, the game shouldn't have been a stale mate

2. the thing about lovers, as same side lover, they do have advantage to know and trust one person for sure sure, which is quite hard in this game

but a Bo/Town lovers, in perspective has an awesome advantage of getting to know both BO and town players, I mean no matter what role you have in this game, one thing I've notice is that if you know for sure about the other team, it's a sure win. And one more advantage for Bo/Town lovers is that if one of them is killed and is town, then BO will be expose for sure I know I would put the list of BO in my will if I have a chance to die and knew all of them I think that's a pretty solid protection from Bo killing that pair of lover.