Homosexuality: A Survey

[dilbertschalter]

I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that in 75 years or less, the Catholic Church will accept homosexual marriage or be subject to a series of schisms that fracture a chunk of its base in Europe and North America. Pretty much all the other churches are going through this to some degree, the Catholic one is only lagging because it has a world base and more bureaucracy.

Also Tawi, your conception of Protestants or Americans is not very informed, which is severely limiting the believability of your arguments.

Regarding these "closed" adoption agencies, there are several things to consider. There are different types of adoption agencies. Some are public, publicly funded, or they contract with a state’s federally-funded foster care program. Any of these public or partially public agencies can be religiously affiliated and run by religious institutions, but they have to obey secular rules because they have elected to receive public funds or support.
In order to be publicly run, publicly funded, or contracted with publicly funded agencies, the government requires that the institution must not discriminate against those of any race, religious creed, ancestry, gender, etc. While not enacted on the national level, many state governments have added sexual orientation to the do not discriminate list. When that happened in Illinois, the Catholic adoption agency chose to close themselves rather than comply with the do not discriminate provisions or become private, not federally funded or contracted which would have allowed them to continue not adopting to same sex couples..

Also for anyone wondering, there is quite a bit of variability in Catholic thinking that I have encountered. I know more than a few Roman Pope Catholics (versus say Anglican) who are waiting for the Catholic church to come around on homosexuality.

I'm a bit confused by your terminology. "Roman Pope Catholics" are the only kind of Catholics that exist. Anyway who does not accept the pope as the head of their church is not Catholic. Anglicanism and Catholicism are extremely similar doctrinally speaking, but they is still a strong division.

[sonoci]

On the behalf of everyone I say sorry ziraulo for how this turned out xD MacGuffin I say we up the stakes on that bet. I suggest any new person please answer the survey before entering the debate if you make a mess might as well clean up.

I was actually going to make a post asking ziraulo if s/he got enough information for a good project xD''' At least then something productive would come from all of this

Of course

Spoiler:

From the Scandinavia and the World guy.

I got to see this gem, so I guess there's no complaining

I am totally the pouting sheep. Just for the sake of awesome expressions \o/

[ProfParanoia]

[Fun little cartoon]

Now, I would also like to add that while I don't have a problem with sexulaities, Dolphins need a strong punch in the face for their "conduct".

[Tanner-kun]

Catholics, for example, continue to respect and worship a Pope that deliberately and systematically covers up the rape of young children and threatens anyone wanting to come forward with full excommunication. That's a holy man if I've ever seen one (no sarcasm, actually). And thanks to his stance on contraception, there will be more death on his hands by the time he dies than any mass murderer in history, and the body count will continue to rise long after he's dead. The Catholic Church could use its influence for good for once if they would stop living in the Dark Ages.

Jd-, the mere fact that you used the term "Dark Ages" to give a negative feel to the Middle ages shows how ignorant you are of Christianity and its contributions. If you think Catholicism was the cause for the Dark Ages, then you are most certainly wrong. The Dark Ages was the result of the fall of the Roman Empire. When the empire fell, life fell into utter chaos, people forgot the importance of life's spiritual truths and daily life became filled with insecurity. People were too focused on survival. Violence became commonplace and Feudal systems rose as a counter. The Dark Ages was the consequence of the fall of such a great Empire. Power shifted to Constantinople, as Barbaric tribes settles in Europe. The Franks in Gaul, the Visigoths in spain and the Lombards and Ostrogoths in Italy, etc. Had the Catholic Church not even existed, the Dark Ages would still have come into existence. In fact, without the Catholic Church, the Dark Ages would've become a much darker age.

No one will deny the corruptions of the Church and the horrific deeds of the Popes during latter parts of the Medieval Age. But Christianity, Catholicism to be specific, played A VERY CRUCIAL ROLE, in keeping society stable and progress constant throughout the Middle Ages...to the point that they are credited to SHAPING WESTERN CIVILIZATION, deny this, give me evidence. While life was in chaos and it was Christianity that was the common ground that united the people as a whole. Monasteries blossomed and were key factors in preserving spiritual truths. They are credited to copying and translating several ancient manuscripts, preserving knowledge and keeping the knowledge of Greek and Latin alive. Mind you, during this time both Greek and Latin were practically considered as dead languages. Had these monasteries not come into existence, people during that time would have had to start of SCRATCH - science, mathematics, etc. Monasteries saved Western Civilization and Jd-, you should be grateful to us for that. Did I mention that monks also tutored Barbaric rulers, rulers give birth to a royal lineage of kings of different realms. People had complete trust in the church and believed her to be the way to salvation. Priests aided the poor and the sick and dwelled into the sciences. The Church, being the most powerful institution during that time, sponsored science and medicine. The Church gave rise to universities, revolutionized architecture and so on. For Pete's sake Humanism is originally a Christian idea as was brought about my Catholic thinkers such as Erasmus and Montaigne.   ut as time progressed, Church rulers were unable to handle the responsibility of such power. The church in the latter portions of the middle ages, became corrupt, more worldly.This gave rise to the reformation. HOWEVER, to deny the church credit for SAVING and SHAPING western civilization is just wrong All of us owe a lot to Christianity, a lot more.

Had I had my History book with me, I could've written a lot more, believe me. Unfortunately, it's in my locker at school for the Christmas break. And before you say so, no it isn't a Christian history book, its a world history book written on neutral ground. It credits the Catholic Church for saving western civilization while mentioning the abuses it fell into later on. I'll say this, Jd- I appreciate the subbing you do for everybody but you are misinformed regarding the Catholic Church. - Tawi

Im prety sure when Jd- said dark ages, he just refereed to a era. So must of that was a pointless arguemeant. and again you are just avoide what you cant argue against and only saying arguments to the points you can defend.

[Tawi]

Regarding these "closed" adoption agencies, there are several things to consider. There are different types of adoption agencies. Some are public, publicly funded, or they contract with a state’s federally-funded foster care program. Any of these public or partially public agencies can be religiously affiliated and run by religious institutions, but they have to obey secular rules because they have elected to receive public funds or support.
In order to be publicly run, publicly funded, or contracted with publicly funded agencies, the government requires that the institution must not discriminate against those of any race, religious creed, ancestry, gender, etc. While not enacted on the national level, many state governments have added sexual orientation to the do not discriminate list. When that happened in Illinois, the Catholic adoption agency chose to close themselves rather than comply with the do not discriminate provisions or become private, not federally funded or contracted which would have allowed them to continue not adopting to same sex couples..

Too be honest, I don't even understand much of what you wrote. D:
But anyway, my bad Chek.

Also, I have to get on on my paper. My teacher had to spoil the break by making the deadline on January 3, which is the resumption of classes. Later!

[Akonyl]

Im prety sure when Jd- said dark ages, he just refereed to a time zone. So must of that was a pointless arguemeant. and again you are just avoide what you cant argue against and only saying arguments to the points you can defend.

"era", not time zone.  :-X  :P

also for the sake of mood lightening

Spoiler:

[Tanner-kun]

Im prety sure when Jd- said dark ages, he just refereed to a time zone. So must of that was a pointless arguemeant. and again you are just avoide what you cant argue against and only saying arguments to the points you can defend.

"era", not time zone.  :-X  :P

also for the sake of mood lightening

Spoiler:

Thanks. -fixes post- and lmao. xD saw that golbat thing a while ago, its still really funny. xD

[ConansSideWalk]

also for the sake of mood lightening

Spoiler:

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

[sonoci]

for the sake of mood lightening

[me=sonoci]has started a trend \o/[/me]

[ProfParanoia]

Wasn't Anglican created specifically to change marriage rules, also anti-inter racial marriage was supported through a religious argument.

[Abs.]

From the Scandinavia and the World guy.

Humon is a girl.

[Tawi]

@Tanner, if you read my post awhile back. I conceded and said I was gonna end my presence here by listing a few points I wanted to push. Unfortunately, posts kept coming and I was provoked to responding. But now, I think I should get on my first thesis paper. I was planning on starting after the Lakers game and using the next three days to do it (its only 6-8 pages). But If I continue to post here, I'll probably have to cram my paper. Which I don't want to do because for the first time this year, I'm doing below average in English. It's one of the few good subjects I'm good at and I don't want it to go down. Believe me, had I the time, I could have replied to almost every claim directed towards my stance. With the help of CAF and a good cathechism, ntohing's impossible really. But of course,  I'm no apologist and I can't answer everything in a way that would satisfy your expectations. If you really want to debate with other Catholics, feel free to visit a Catholic forum (I know a good one too). My aim in my last few posts was to get out all the main points I wanted to share and push. After I did that, I could care less. I don't have the time to respond in a thread with majority of its posters against my stance. I said my part and I'm satisfied. If you think I'm dodging what I can't answer that's what you believe but please understand my situation as well.

See you guys some other time.

The Catholic Church could use its influence for good for once if they would stop living in the Dark Ages.

I won't even stress much over this due to the absurdity of this statement. The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. That covers adoption agencies, charities, education, etc.

Im prety sure when Jd- said dark ages, he just refereed to a era. So must of that was a pointless arguemeant. and again you are just avoide what you cant argue against and only saying arguments to the points you can defend.

Looking back at his post, I think so too o_o. I probably got all hypey and went into rage writing mode without thinking. If this is the case, my bad Jd-. Still, I don't think it was all that pointless. It is a very common myth these days - Catholics are at fault, had they not come into existence we would have scientific progress, blah blah blah. God I should stop coming back here.

[Kurunouma]

No

reason: same as those who vote for No.

[ConansSideWalk]

We will now replace Tawi with Kurunouma. jk I guess I'm done here, for now.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I'm a bit confused by your terminology. "Roman Pope Catholics" are the only kind of Catholics that exist. Anyway who does not accept the pope as the head of their church is not Catholic. Anglicanism and Catholicism are extremely similar doctrinally speaking, but they is still a strong division.

There are a bunch of different denominations that can call themselves Catholic depending on who you ask. Some Eastern Orthodox Churchers and Anglicans may identify as Catholic, or at least some of the ones who I have asked identified this way. People tend to get offended if you exclude their religion by assumption if they believe they are part of the group and I decided to tread on the safe side. Try telling Mormons they are not Christian for example. Really, don't do it.