Random Poll of the Day! (161)

[Eve]

And what's with Abs. just quoting me partly nowadays?
Also, I don't think that my opinion is tolerated here :x how ironic.

I got no idea what this is all about.

I'm just saying that "better parents" or "good parents" is highly, HIGHLY subjective.

Yet, she has "The Stats to prove it" Somehow XD lol

[Kleene Onigiri]

It's about the word marriage. For me it is defined as a bond between a man and a woman

Then I explained what the church wanted to achive with a marriage. People that will raise their children together. And back in the day, usually a male and a female had a child. It wasn't so common for a gay couple to raise a child I guess.

@the great statistic:
I'm usually skeptic towards statistics generally XD Since you can easily manipulate it when you leave something out.

But what the educationalist did was this (I got that from my prof at uni. So most likely true ):

They visited families (a lot of them, at least 100) and watched the family. They counted the time that a parent would interact with his/her child (in minutes or whatever). So if they talk with them, eat together with them, play with them, read them something etc.

It turned out, that parents spend more time with their genetic children than with adopted or sick children. The parents themselves don't notice that tho, since they were asked before what they think. If they spend more time with their own child or not or the same time. Every parent said they threat their child equally.

So, what the statistic said about a "better parent" was, if they spend more time on their child or not. Of course it doesn't tell how they interact with their children But this is a way to check it out without being too subjective.

There was another test with families with a adopted child and a genetic child in one family. They tested the children on a stress hormone. The adopted child produced a lot more than the other child. A reason that they told us was, that the adopted child fears to be kicked out, thus is trying harder/has stress. But the child said he/she is felling good in that family too D:

So, why are they teaching us this? :x
Well, as a future teacher, there can always be children that are depressive or have problems. So, you need to know what could be the cause. So, one cause can be the family circumstances.


But like I said. It's statistics and I also said any other parent, if gay or single etc. can be a better parent than a married couple.
But it's always easier if you have a partner, gems, gold and a swimming pool XD

[Vylash]

It's about the word marriage. For me it is defined as a bond between a man and a woman

^ this

[Abs.]

Wow thanks Kleene!  That certainly clears things up. 

Anyhow, like Ako said, this is a complicated issue because of the religion vs. law thing.  Plus, it's people, so it's inevitably complicated.

You have:
- Opposite sex couples who are secular but want to get religiously married because that is what is the accepted norm
- Same sex couples who are secular but want to get religiously married because that is what is the accepted norm
- Opposite sex couples who are secular and could care less about being religiously married but need all the other protections the law provides
- Same sex couples who are secular and could care less about being religiously married but need all the other protections the law provides
- O who are religious and want to get religiously married because that's what's "right" in their religion
- S who are religious and want to get religiously married because that's what's "right" in their religion
- etc. etc. times infinity

Anyway, I leave you with this:

Go to a happily married man/woman and refer to his/her spouse as his/her "partner" instead of "wife/husband."  Then gauge their reaction or ask them how they felt when you said that instead of "wife/husband."

My feeling is that many same-sex couples would like to refer to their "partner" as their "wife/husband" instead of "partner," because of the same feeling.

And this hinges, of course, on the definition of "wife/husband" and therefore "marriage."

[Kleene Onigiri]

wife/husband... Hm... well, here in german you say "Frau/Mann"  or "Ehefrau/Ehemann". And "Frau" also means "woman" and "Mann" means "man". So here,  linguistical it sounds a bit strange when they would call each other like that XD

I think here they use partner rather than frau/mann :x Or lover D:

[Wakarimashita]

Here, you say "époux/mari" for the husband, and "épouse/femme" for the wife. Furthermore, the woman after her marriage is no longer referred to as a "Mademoiselle" but as a "Madame". However, to get religiously married, couples must be civilly married first (it is against the law otherwise). But both of these marriages are not accessible to gay couples. They, for now, have the PACS (which doesn't give them as many rights as a couple as the civil marriage, hence the current issue).

[PhoenixTears]

Religious marriage : no.

I disagree with this because there are same sex couples out there who are religious. They should be allowed to be married in a religious ceremony if it's what they want.

I think my biggest problem with all of this "no gay marriage allowed!" stuff is that I don't see how it's hurting anybody by letting two consenting adults who just happen to be the same gender get married.

I mean, obviously, the priest (or other religious leader) performing the ceremony should approve of it himself and be willing to perform it, but surely there are religious leaders out there who would do so.

And back in the day wife beating wasn't illegal

This right here is proof that times change. Just because something was disallowed (or allowed, in the case of wife-beating) in the past doesn't mean it should be now.

[Commi-Ninja]

The problem with all of this is that it is VERY subjective, which is why I won't vote in this poll.

I don't much care what other people do with their lives or what they call it, but I don't necessarily care to know about it, either.  I dunno, I don't see why it has to be such a huge issue, and yet it is.

[PhoenixTears]

I don't see why it has to be such a huge issue, and yet it is.

When someone is denied any amount of freedom to live their life they way they choose (or anything else), for any reason at all, it's going to be a huge issue. That's just how it works.

[Wakarimashita]

The thing is the religion they are supposedly attached to forbids those marriages. I am not one to defend some of the out of date values transmitted by the Church, but I understand that such an institution refuses to marry gay couples as it goes against their conception of what marriage is, conception which they have defended for centuries.

I will once again speak for France as I don't now how it works in other countries, but I think some people here are opposed to the civil marriage (so is The Conseil Constitutionnel) because it would give the right to adopt to gay couples. I understand their problem as I am rather skeptical concerning gay adoption (I believe the rights of childen among which the right to live in a "traditional family", should have priority over what is called the right to have a child).

[Kleene Onigiri]

I don't see why it has to be such a huge issue, and yet it is.

When someone is denied any amount of freedom to live their life they way they choose (or anything else), for any reason at all, it's going to be a huge issue. That's just how it works.

It's a problem here.

The one side wants to be approved.

While the other one wants to keep their tradition and believe.
"Just" changing it is an issue for them. Which would also hurt their "freedom" or more like what they believe in :/

Tho I don't "approve" it, I wouldn't mind much if it get's changed personally. But then again there will be people that want soemthing else changed too etc. And then that religion wouldn't be the same again D:

[Vylash]

[Abs.]

See, that's the sticky issue.  If everything were secular, less people would have a problem with it (though it still would be hell to get it passed as law).  But you can't have everything be secular because people are inundated with religiosity at every turn - as the example I gave of the definitions of "wife" and "husband."

Personally I don't really think it would affect anyone else if same-sex couples were allowed to call each other "husband" and/or "wife" and have the same rights as opposite-sex couples - the ability to be at your loved one's bedside when they are dying, for example, and not be chased out because "you aren't family" (!!!)

And as PT said, there are also same-sex couples who are religious and want to make things right with their religion.  You would think that as long as they found a sympathetic minister (or whoever it is that marries people religiously) everything would be cool, but that's not the case.

By the way!

Isn't same-sex marriage legal in Sweden?  Nom, Kain?

[Kor]

I disagree with this because there are same sex couples out there who are religious. They should be allowed to be married in a religious ceremony if it's what they want.

While I agree, I do think this is too much of a mess at the moment.
Many religious christians think of homosexuality as a sin, and therefore not only would they not let gay people get married, some of them don't accept gay people at all (not to mention that there are idiotic people who think it's a disease or a way of life).
I'm not a religious person, so I don't see what their fuss is about for getting married religiously (especially when many of them condemn your existence).
You need to take it little by little. First of all, have civil marriage possible. Then go for the religious thing. But don't expect too much, because people aren't going to abandon their beliefs for your sake.

I just think that letting gay people the right for religious marriage is a war that can not be won (therefore it's not even worth to step into), especially since you don't fight against your state (a body which can change its rules all the time), but against the religioun (the number 1 reason for hate in the world)

[Akonyl]

Religious marriage : no.

I disagree with this because there are same sex couples out there who are religious. They should be allowed to be married in a religious ceremony if it's what they want.

I'm not sure this is something I agree with. Sure, it sounds nice and all but in the end, it should be the Church's job to govern themselves, not the Government's.

If there's a gay couple that believes in religion X, and religion X is against homosexuality because they believe it's a sin, then I'm not sure exactly why the couple wants to get married by religion X anyway, as they obviously don't share the religion's views.