Random Poll of the Day! (161)

[Kleene Onigiri]

But according to that argument married people can't divorce either. Even if one is a wife/husband beater, drinker or in any other way abusive.

True. But that has nothing to do with gender :x And back in the day wife beating wasn't illegal

[Eve]

@Eve, Dus: Although I am not sure if that proves the man and woman part.

Along with the fact that it's NATURAL for animal to be homosexual, because there are animals who are, Hence, the concept of union between homosexual existed before the concept of "Marriage being holy" being brought in place.

Marriage is a word that was made up by people who believe in invisible omnipotent beings, right? 

Yes. And people now still consider marriage as something holy :x

Well, then where in the Bible, or any Holy Book was marriage define as "must be between a man and a woman as God intended", Honestly, because I'm not Christian and have never read the Bible .... I do not know where it has stated explicitly so
And don't even say Two males of the same species being a couple of not natural, because there are Gay Penguins and other Gay animals people just refused to look at

It's more about the purpose of the marriage(the christian one).
The purpose is to make babies (Yes!), and then be the parents of those children and to hold together and be a "family" together. Meaning the marriage is to keep the parents together and to let them take care of their children.

You can't divorce your partner because he got fat or whatever. Not in Christianity.
BUT you can undo the marriage in case your partner doesn't want children, although he said he wanted to have some before the marriage! You can then marry again.

So, how I see it, is that marriage is invented to keep a woman and a man together in order for them to uptake their own (genetic) children. Which I don't find bad, but actually good.

That's why I don't think it's possible for gay couples to fulfill that task. They can't have children of their own (not the normal way at least )
So I don't think they should "marry" in that sense.


But like I said, the gay couple totally can be a couple together, they can adopt a child and be a great family, maybe even better than a "normal" one. Just that the can't use the word marriage with the definition from the Catholics.
They can have a different marriage tho.

Wait, Kleene, What you're saying is the Bible, or Holy book stated that "Marriage Purpose is to raise children for their genetic upkeep"?
Because if that's how advanced it was back then, why did they disagree on the fact that the Earth is spherical?
But if you're saying that "Marriage Purpose is to raise children" then I don't see how the children came to be is the matter here, parents of any sort can raise children as long as they're raising them , so they're still "Married"
If you're talking about "Marriage Purpose is to raise Children to keep their own bloodlines in tact" well, again, homosexual can have such process to produce an off spring based on the same blood lines....
And also: Infertile people SHOULDN'T be married then?

[Wakarimashita]

Civil marriage : yes.
Religious marriage : no.

(I'm an atheist.)

[Akonyl]

But according to that argument married people can't divorce either. Even if one is a wife/husband beater, drinker or in any other way abusive.

True. But that has nothing to do with gender :x And back in the day wife beating wasn't illegal

It may not have anything to do with gender, but it goes to show how relaxed marriage has become over time, I think.

Civil marriage : yes.
Religious marriage : no.

(I'm an atheist.)

concise version of my thoughts on the matter (minus the atheist part, though there was a discussion about that a while ago too :V)

[Kor]

Civil marriage : yes.
Religious marriage : no.

(I'm an atheist.)

I agree with this.

In Israel though, there is no seperation between church and state, so if someone wants to get married, he has to do a religious marriage. If you are a jew and want to marry a "goy", you can't do that. So what all the atheist couples do? They go to Europe and get married there in civil marriage.

[Eve]

Religious marriage : no.

I guess it would come down to what religion and how such the disciples would interpret the meaning of marriage .

Civil Marriage is a definite yes. if some people decide to make bad decision, they're free to do so

[Kleene Onigiri]

@Eve, Dus: Although I am not sure if that proves the man and woman part.

Along with the fact that it's NATURAL for animal to be homosexual, because there are animals who are, Hence, the concept of union between homosexual existed before the concept of "Marriage being holy" being brought in place.

Marriage is a word that was made up by people who believe in invisible omnipotent beings, right? 

Yes. And people now still consider marriage as something holy :x

Well, then where in the Bible, or any Holy Book was marriage define as "must be between a man and a woman as God intended", Honestly, because I'm not Christian and have never read the Bible .... I do not know where it has stated explicitly so
And don't even say Two males of the same species being a couple of not natural, because there are Gay Penguins and other Gay animals people just refused to look at

It's more about the purpose of the marriage(the christian one).
The purpose is to make babies (Yes!), and then be the parents of those children and to hold together and be a "family" together. Meaning the marriage is to keep the parents together and to let them take care of their children.

You can't divorce your partner because he got fat or whatever. Not in Christianity.
BUT you can undo the marriage in case your partner doesn't want children, although he said he wanted to have some before the marriage! You can then marry again.

So, how I see it, is that marriage is invented to keep a woman and a man together in order for them to uptake their own (genetic) children. Which I don't find bad, but actually good.

That's why I don't think it's possible for gay couples to fulfill that task. They can't have children of their own (not the normal way at least )
So I don't think they should "marry" in that sense.


But like I said, the gay couple totally can be a couple together, they can adopt a child and be a great family, maybe even better than a "normal" one. Just that the can't use the word marriage with the definition from the Catholics.
They can have a different marriage tho.

Wait, Kleene, What you're saying is the Bible, or Holy book stated that "Marriage Purpose is to raise children for their genetic upkeep"?
Because if that's how advanced it was back then, why did they disagree on the fact that the Earth is spherical?
But if you're saying that "Marriage Purpose is to raise children" then I don't see how the children came to be is the matter here, parents of any sort can raise children as long as they're raising them , so they're still "Married"
If you're talking about "Marriage Purpose is to raise Children to keep their own bloodlines in tact" well, again, homosexual can have such process to produce an off spring based on the same blood lines....
And also: Infertile people SHOULDN'T be married then?

Sorry to disappoint you. But it's statistically proven that parents are better parents towards their genetic children So yeah, there you go
Since it's statistic, it doesn't mean that there aren't perfect parents that adopted their child.

So, yeah. It's usually the best when your genetic parents are raising you. Tho there is nothing against them not being your genetic parents and still being the best parents in the world

(it's also proven, that parents are spending more time with their healthy children than with those that have a chronic disease for example :x)

[Eve]

Sorry to disappoint you. But it's statistically proven that parents are better parents towards their genetic children So yeah, there you go
Since it's statistic, it doesn't mean that there aren't perfect parents that adopted their child.

So, yeah. It's usually the best when your genetic parents are raising you. Tho there is nothing against them not being your genetic parents and still being the best parents in the world

(it's also proven, that parents are spending more time with their healthy children than with those that have a chronic disease for example :x)

Uhhhh.... I think I was talking about Marriage, seeing as its purpose is "to raise children" then any type of parents would be fine....
I don't know how that would disappoint me though Did I ever says parents who adopted children are perfect parents?

I still don't see your point if your point is "Marriage should be between a man and a women because they can reproduce and would guaranteed love their children more"  because then, homosexual couples CAN prove they'll love their children more, and spend time with the child they adopted considering that would means they can be married because of that
and stats showed "parents" not "Married couples"

(How was this proven? By asking one pair of parents in the world or actually observing more than hundreds of pairs?)

[Abs.]

better parents

[Kor]

True. You don't have to be married in order to be parents (or good parents). It's just that society will find it odd (and of course there are the reasons in the bible for why you can't have children if you are not married.....)

[Kleene Onigiri]

this was about this sentence:

But if you're saying that "Marriage Purpose is to raise children" then I don't see how the children came to be is the matter here, parents of any sort can raise children as long as they're raising them , so they're still "Married"

that eve said

You said parents of any sort. I said, genetic parents tend to be better (in statistics. Yes, there were done such statistics with hunderts of different parents. With children that were twins, only children, sick children, adopted children, children with the mother and step father, only the father etc. (whatever possibilities))

I never said you need to be married to be a parent.

It was about the meaning of being married in the catholic way. It is to make children and raise your children. Since it's still the best and easiest way to raise your children together with your partner.


And what's with Abs. just quoting me partly nowadays?
Also, I don't think that my opinion is tolerated here :x how ironic.

[Dus]

I fail to see the irony.

[Kleene Onigiri]

whateveeeer~ XD

[Eve]

It was about the meaning of being married in the catholic way. It is to make children and raise your children. Since it's still the best and easiest way to raise your children together with your partner.

To make children and raise children - Can be done by homosexual couples, though I have no idea that Catholics approve only "one way" to make children , then what about infertile people? They have no rights to marriage also since they can't "make" children the "approved way"? How sad

So it's been proven that the best parents are parents who gave birth to their own children? [s]Or is this only applies to Catholics Parents?[/s]

Then again, I'm in no position to talk about your interpretations of the "Catholic Religious views" because such views are known for their ..... truthiness

Let's agree that you can hold on to your interpretations, and I can hold on to mine ^^

Side note: I never blame the religion, only the ways people interpret religion to serve their own interests
^^

[Abs.]

And what's with Abs. just quoting me partly nowadays?
Also, I don't think that my opinion is tolerated here :x how ironic.

I got no idea what this is all about.

I'm just saying that "better parents" or "good parents" is highly, HIGHLY subjective.