KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Kleene Onigiri » May 11th, 2010, 3:56 pm

Kite wrote:[...] In the meantime, he happily uses the word "justice" to justify his criminal activities he can pull off because he has the body of a child, and people just don't expect the unexpected from children. [...]


He (Conan) never justified his criminal/illegal actions. He also never said anything similar to that, like: "My actions are for a greater deed" or "I break in to capture the murderer, so it's justified" etc. (at least I can't remember him saying something like that)

But I agree that he is doing things illegally XD But people already hinted it to him too (Kid also said, that a detective is someone who is sniffing around in peoples private matters, because Conan blamed him for being a thief)
But on the other hand, the FBI is doing things without the Japanese knowing and that is illegal too.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby SnakeBlue » May 14th, 2010, 1:45 am

I'd say Kid already knows about Conan, as a thief and a magician, there is no way he doesn't. he's just simply too smart not to have put it together.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Kor » May 14th, 2010, 12:31 pm

SnakeBlue wrote:I'd say Kid already knows about Conan, as a thief and a magician, there is no way he doesn't.


being a thief and a magician doesn't make you smarter and it won't make you believe that someone somehow broke the laws of reality and was turned into a child. The opposite is correct. Most magicians don't believe in abanormal stuff such as "espers" or real magic. Magicians' "magic" is based on logic and reality. (We can argue about Akako, but so far the unatural elements of MK (magic/pandora) were not presented in DC, so Akako wouldn't be a good argument)

SnakeBlue wrote:he's just simply too smart not to have put it together.


To put what together? He might believe that Conan is way too smart for a child, but there is no reason for him to think that Conan is actually Shinichi.
Sure, Kid could always try to investigate Conan, but for what reason? So far Kid isn't the sort that stalks people, actually, Conan is the one who is stalking him. And besides, Kid is not a detective (and he also hates detectives apparently), so why should he act like one and investigate on Conan?
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » May 14th, 2010, 12:36 pm

Kor wrote:
SnakeBlue wrote:I'd say Kid already knows about Conan, as a thief and a magician, there is no way he doesn't.


being a thief and a magician doesn't make you smarter and it won't make you believe that someone somehow broke the laws of reality and was turned into a child. The opposite is correct. Most magicians don't believe in abanormal stuff such as "espers" or real magic. Magicians' "magic" is based on logic and reality. (We can argue about Akako, but so far the unatural elements of MK (magic/pandora) were not presented in DC, so Akako wouldn't be a good argument)


Few to no professional magicians believe in real magic, because they're so skilled at creating the illusion of real magic. "Psychics" and people with "haunted houses" do not like meeting professional magicians, who've been known to tear them apart. I think this is among the reasons that Akako freaks Kaito out so much, and i'm not sure that he takes the Pandora legend very seriously- it's just a good excuse to drag out his father's murderers.

Kor wrote:
SnakeBlue wrote:he's just simply too smart not to have put it together.


To put what together? He might believe that Conan is way too smart for a child, but there is no reason for him to think that Conan is actually Shinichi.
Sure, Kid could always try to investigate Conan, but for what reason? So far Kid isn't the sort that stalks people, actually, Conan is the one who is stalking him. And besides, Kid is not a detective (and he also hates detectives apparently), so why should he act like one and investigate on Conan?


Kaito has only come across Shinichi once, and frankly probably didn't even know who was screwing with him at the clock tower. He has bigger fish to fry than a curious kid.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby SnakeBlue » May 15th, 2010, 6:12 am

seems I hit a nerve with my comment.
I can't explain why I feel Kid knows, I'm just sure he does. he doesn't treat Conan like a child when they face off.

I wasn't trying to say anything about real magic with my comment either. to be a good magician you have to be smart enough to trick people. Kid has shown himself to be a very capable magician.

(I'd add more but my language skills have mostly deserted me at this point.)
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Redmage » May 18th, 2010, 11:54 pm

Aside from the general way that he treats Conan, i.e., not at all as a child, there really isn't any evidence that he knows who Conan is or cares to. And he might not; he has to adapt to things quickly, after all, and he may just take Conan's intelligence in stride. But the newest manga case actually gives him a bit of information to go on--if he is so inclined:

Spoiler:
Conan told Kid one of his mother's famous roles. Oddly enough, without even thinking about it or hesitating, either. Probably, he realizes that even if Kid finds out about him, he wouldn't be a threat.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » May 19th, 2010, 5:05 am

I think part of both of them enjoys leaking out snippets to the other. It's a sort of game of chicken with their identities. I guess if either figured the other out, they wouldn't actually do anything about it- it's part of the game. Since both of them are so often around murderers, they probably relish this fully harmless challenge.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Yamamura » June 27th, 2010, 11:48 am

We all know the movies aren't canon, but how often does the real series actually contradict them?  Well, that's a small note.  The best evidence I've seen of Kid knowing that Conan is a shrunken teenager... is how he's used Ran in a compromising position to distract him twice.  ...however that is somewhat of a murky point as one of those times was their first encounter when Kid shouldn't have known.  Unless he figured it out between the rooftop and the boat.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby conanfan1 » June 29th, 2010, 12:19 pm

Hello! I am back finally and its SUMMER VACATION!!!!! exams are finishes and its time to get back to Conan!! :D
well sorry for suddenly jumping in but i couldnt resist ;)
for those of you who said tht Conan is staying with Ran to 'protect' her tht wasnt his intention at all in the beginning cuz it was Agasa-agase who actually suggests (or actually forced ;)  )  him to do it
now he could have left after staying with Ran  for a month or two but maybe he noticed how many dangerous situations Ran (with Sonoko in some cases) unbelievably got herself into and therefore decided to stay.

Now about 'justice' well i think justice is just a word that gives you a reasonable reason to do something. I think tht whatever Conan and even the tantei-dan + Hattori/Hakuba
do is all legally impossible......i mean NO WAY in real life would ANYONE ever allow a kid/highschooler to be around when they question someone/when the forsenics are working/to check someones belongings/when the police are discussing the case
so if you  ever try to argue with the law in mind it would be nigh impossible as you would be able to find fault with every little thing. (no offence intended to anyone just stating my point here :)  )


Now to the real point:
I think Aoyoma didnt really intend to let Kaito find out without showing some real sign of it....but as the movies completely ruined the chance of ever letting us see Kaito when he found abt Conan I think he will never really give any thing except hints which could be counted or not
Personally I would love  it Kaito doesnt know anything and see his expression when he found out but Kid might as well know his true identity as tht will never happen now....
:'(

but this is a good topic to debate on...unfortunately its just like the debate with the Mona Lisa which will never come to a solid conclusion...
:D


I may have been  saying some completely unnescessary things so please ignore them :)
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Sato » May 4th, 2011, 5:25 am

I also think Kaito Kid knows. I believe it's his profession to profiling person if impersonating. Kaito Kid found Conan pop up from no where and know he's famous with 'Sleeping Kogoro' around. XD
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Wakarimashita » May 4th, 2011, 7:27 am

He knows he's not just a normal kid, but he doesn't know Conan is Shinichi. Maybe Gosho will confirm it in the manga one day, but until then I'm sticking with the most plausible theory.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Sato » May 4th, 2011, 7:48 am

well Gosho confirmed movie isn't related to manga and Kaito Kid in movie know Conan's by researching. :)
I was implying Kaito Kid show no interest to investigate Conan in manga and Kaito Kid is being unpredictable.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby queenmisanagi » May 4th, 2011, 12:35 pm

I've been re-reading all the Kaitou KID arcs (bec I'm obsessed with him like that and I don't have a life) and I realized that though the battle at the clock tower happened before the black star heist, Conan still called and asked Agasa who KID was. This means Conan --when he was still Shinichi --- did not remember facing off with KID (prolly bec he gets what? 10 murder cases in a day?) and yeah they never saw each other's faces during the battle. Shinichi prolly just knew that he was facing a thief that can disguise himself very well.

Still re the clock tower battle, in KID's POV, there was never a mention of him thinking about Shinichi or trying to find out the detective who almost caught him that night (in the MK series and in his thought bubbles in the DC manga. Said thought bubbles are often just side comments of how much he hates Conan for making his escape more difficult).

In the DC Kaitou KID files, it's really Conan obsessed with unmasking KID and not the other way around. (But I stand by what I said that Conan is much more still occupied with BO to start prioritizing the capture of KID -- it's like "Okay if he shows up again, I'll try my best to catch him but I won't go out of my way to look for him")

As for KID, well, in the DC manga, we're rarely given KID's POV but it was mentioned in the Black Star case that KID thought that Conan was just an ordinary kid

Spoiler:
'Cause of that brat I had to swim to get away, Kaito said in Vol16 p112. Brat meaning kid as in a child, right?


However as they meet more often I have to agree that KID is not treating Conan like a normal kid. Maybe he knows that something is up but at the same time we can also assume that he may just think Conan is really talented and smart.

Anyway, summary points -- What we know:
Kaito is not aware of Kudou's existence (never any instances of Kaito trying to find out Shinichi or him trying to find out who he faced that night at the clocktower
Kudou does not remember facing off with KID/forgotten to have faced off with KID at the clocktower battle
KID may not remember Kudou but he remembers the face off (he reminisces said battle right before his first attempt to get the Black Star -- the first time he will face Shinichi as Conan)
Said reminiscence is actually very intriguing bec the fact that he remembered facing off with a certain detective at the clocktower battle and then he meets Conan --maybe he linked them together? (But no, at the end of the Black Star heist, he thought of him as just a "brat")
He is not treating Conan like he is just a normal kid
They like to tease each other a lot with their hinting each other of their personalities
They are probably in love with each other

BL: Not enough evidence to prove that Kaito knows who Conan is or maybe said lack of evidence is evidence enough that Kaito is not that interested in knowing who Conan is.

I agree that he is not the type to go snooping around. If ever he finds out about Conan being Shinichi, I think it will happen very abruptly and not bec he investigated about Conan... and I also think that he will keep Conan's secret especially if Conan explains the whole BO mess. KID is in a similar situation, after all. Also they have helped out each other in several occasions (Magic Lovers case, Eccentric Mansion case) that Conan has let him escape so it is only natural that he keeps it (or use it for his advantage-- such as what he did in the films and even if they are not canon they characters are not OOC)
Last edited by queenmisanagi on May 4th, 2011, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Shuusgirl » May 12th, 2011, 12:42 am

queen misanagi wrote:
Spoiler:
'Cause of that brat I had to swim to get away, Kaito said in Vol16 p112. Brat meaning kid as in a child, right?


I don't think so that means that KID thinks he's a child.
Yamamura wrote:We all know the movies aren't canon, but how often does the real series actually contradict them?  Well, that's a small note.  The best evidence I've seen of Kid knowing that Conan is a shrunken teenager... is how he's used Ran in a compromising position to distract him twice.  ...however that is somewhat of a murky point as one of those times was their first encounter when Kid shouldn't have known.  Unless he figured it out between the rooftop and the boat.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised at all if KID knew.  There's the whole Ran angles (I got the whole asleep in the lifeboat one, what was the other time?) plus the fact that he's impersonated three people close to Conan.  So he sees how he acts around Kogoro, Ran and the DB.  I can't think of a single child who's personality changes so drastically as Conan's does around those three.
Besides, KID's work is in tricking people, which in turn makes him hard to trick.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby SnakeBlue » May 20th, 2011, 6:40 am

Shuusgirl wrote:Well, I wouldn't be surprised at all if KID knew.  There's the whole Ran angles (I got the whole asleep in the lifeboat one, what was the other time?) plus the fact that he's impersonated three people close to Conan.  So he sees how he acts around Kogoro, Ran and the DB.  I can't think of a single child who's personality changes so drastically as Conan's does around those three.
Besides, KID's work is in tricking people, which in turn makes him hard to trick.

ah, someone who sees it similar to me.
I guess I worded my comment earlier somewhat badly, but this it kinda what I was trying to get at.
especially using Ran against Conan the way he did in the Black Star case Kid just doesn't act like he thinks Conan is a child.
Spoiler:
a child the age Conan appears to be wouldn't have reacted quite so quickly when presented with the idea that Ran was naked and likely to be found at any moment.
that would only have worked so well on a teenage or older mind and I'm sure KID knew it.
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