KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

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KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby kirite » January 31st, 2010, 9:11 pm

NOTE:  THIS IS EXCLUDING THE MOVIES BECAUSE GOSHO DIDN'T WRITE THEM

But this is related to the movies in a way.  How likely is it that KID will figure out Shinichi = Conan?  And a better question yet is WHY would he do such a thing?  

It's one of those things that just drives me crazy about the movies xD.  Sure Gosho said Shinichi is KID's "brother".  But really, I seriously doubt that would have resulted in any interest from KID to Shinichi- much less Conan.
Last edited by kirite on January 31st, 2010, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby bluekaitou1412 » January 31st, 2010, 11:49 pm

Curiosity could be a starting point.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » February 1st, 2010, 7:22 am

It depends on how much he knows about SHinichi, really. They never saw each other's faces at the Clock Tower, but it's plausible that Kaito decided to investigate why the police were working differently there, and did some background research into Shinichi. If he was keeping tabs on Shinichi just in case the detective came after him again, he might have noticed that he disappeared around the same time that Conan popped up.

I would be entirely unsurprised if he's keeping tabs on his "favourite critic". The question is how much he suspects of the hyperintelligent kid...
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Detective Prince » February 18th, 2010, 2:14 pm

I don't think he would try to. Think about it. In one episode Conan said he would unmask Kaito Kid but Kaito Kid said to put it in simple terms that if he does that would be opening Pandor's Box. So if he tries to figure out who conan is then....he would be a big hypocrite.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby ccppfan » April 24th, 2010, 2:13 am

Detective Prince wrote:I don't think he would try to. Think about it. In one episode Conan said he would unmask Kaito Kid but Kaito Kid said to put it in simple terms that if he does that would be opening Pandor's Box. So if he tries to figure out who conan is then....he would be a big hypocrite.


^I love this word.

But what does it mean? *shot by card gun* OOWWW
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » April 24th, 2010, 5:57 am

ccppfan wrote:
Detective Prince wrote:I don't think he would try to. Think about it. In one episode Conan said he would unmask Kaito Kid but Kaito Kid said to put it in simple terms that if he does that would be opening Pandor's Box. So if he tries to figure out who conan is then....he would be a big hypocrite.


^I love this word.

But what does it mean? *shot by card gun* OOWWW


*lowers card gun and tries to resist going into dictionary mode*
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby pofa » April 29th, 2010, 5:48 pm

mangaluva wrote:
ccppfan wrote:
Detective Prince wrote:I don't think he would try to. Think about it. In one episode Conan said he would unmask Kaito Kid but Kaito Kid said to put it in simple terms that if he does that would be opening Pandor's Box. So if he tries to figure out who conan is then....he would be a big hypocrite.


^I love this word.

But what does it mean? *shot by card gun* OOWWW


*lowers card gun and tries to resist going into dictionary mode*


Well, let's say you get self-righteously angry and lecture a certain thief because he thinks he's above the law, and because he deliberately decieves people to hide his identity.

And then afterwards, let's say you go break into someone's Porsche and put a listening device under the seat because you think it's for the greater good. And then maybe you concoct an incredibly elaborate scheme that involves turning nice old man, a lonely girl who likes you, and a loyal friend from Osaka into liars so that you can avoid telling your crush who you are and continue to use her father's indentity to achieve your own ends.

If someone did that, he might be considered a hypocrite. Hypothetically.  ;)
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby bluekaitou1412 » April 30th, 2010, 4:14 am

pofa wrote:Well, let's say you get self-righteously angry and lecture a certain thief because he thinks he's above the law, and because he deliberately decieves people to hide his identity.

And then afterwards, let's say you go break into someone's Porsche and put a listening device under the seat because you think it's for the greater good. And then maybe you concoct an incredibly elaborate scheme that involves turning nice old man, a lonely girl who likes you, and a loyal friend from Osaka into liars so that you can avoid telling your crush who you are and continue to use her father's indentity to achieve your own ends.

If someone did that, he might be considered a hypocrite. Hypothetically.  ;)


pofa, you are a genius.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Akemi~chan » April 30th, 2010, 4:29 am

bluekaitou1412 wrote:
pofa wrote:Well, let's say you get self-righteously angry and lecture a certain thief because he thinks he's above the law, and because he deliberately decieves people to hide his identity.

And then afterwards, let's say you go break into someone's Porsche and put a listening device under the seat because you think it's for the greater good. And then maybe you concoct an incredibly elaborate scheme that involves turning nice old man, a lonely girl who likes you, and a loyal friend from Osaka into liars so that you can avoid telling your crush who you are and continue to use her father's indentity to achieve your own ends.

If someone did that, he might be considered a hypocrite. Hypothetically.  ;)


pofa, you are a genius.

lol
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » April 30th, 2010, 6:35 am

Shinichi could totally be Kaito, though. I mean, consider the evidence:

> Breaking into Gin's car.
> Breaks into his own school on more than one occasion.
> Has broken into suspect's homes- in the case where the Shonen Tantei-Dan saw the body in the bathroom, for example, and in the second Bandaged Man case where Conan tells Heiji not to let criminals commit suicide, he breaks into the suspect's rooms, with Heiji actually warning him that "it's breakin' an' enterin'!"
> In the Teleportation heist, he quietly admits to have tranquilized a cop to get into the building.
> He regularly and happily lies on the spot, just a few examples being: When he, Ran, Sonoko and Araide/Vermouth are curious about Sato's marriage meeting, so he quickly and innocently lies to the hostess to get them in; in the first Desperate Revival arc, he lies to the suspects and tells them he's a rookie, again straight-faced and with a smile; Edogawa Conan.
> He has the same sense of the overdramatic as Kaito. (Desperate Revival, when he reveals himself to be the Black Knight. How much more overdramatic can you get?)
> Addiction to codes and riddles.

I'm sure there's more, I just can't think of it right now ;)
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby pofa » April 30th, 2010, 12:28 pm

bluekaitou1412 wrote:
pofa, you are a genius.


:-*
mangaluva wrote:> He regularly and happily lies on the spot, just a few examples being: When he, Ran, Sonoko and Araide/Vermouth are curious about Sato's marriage meeting, so he quickly and innocently lies to the hostess to get them in; in the first Desperate Revival arc, he lies to the suspects and tells them he's a rookie, again straight-faced and with a smile; Edogawa Conan.


I know! I noticed those too. Both times I was like, "Conan...your life is a lie."

Of course, according to Conan, the sky and the sea are blue for different reasons.  ::)

(But I wonder if he would still think that if he knew why Kaito was actually stealing.)
Last edited by pofa on April 30th, 2010, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » April 30th, 2010, 1:18 pm

I think, as i've outlined, Shinichi is willing to break the law in the cause of justice. If he knew Kaito's cause, he might be more amenable to some law-breakage, but I think he'd probably want to find a way to do it other than stealing everything shiny...

Forgot another couple of easy lies from before Conan happened. He didn't quite get away with lying to his parents over that time when he was actually a grade-schooler ("We were just getting something she forgot!" Yukiko: "reeeeallly..." *noogie*) but when he was fifteen he got away with telling the hostess on the airplane that he was a PI to get at the photographer's body. He even tried to feed that lie to Megure-keibu.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby WolfenAmphithere » May 1st, 2010, 3:34 pm

Detective Prince wrote:I don't think he would try to. Think about it. In one episode Conan said he would unmask Kaito Kid but Kaito Kid said to put it in simple terms that if he does that would be opening Pandor's Box. So if he tries to figure out who conan is then....he would be a big hypocrite.


At that time, hadn't Ai already referred to the phone number for the Black Org's boss as Pandora's Box? In that sense, maybe KID has already figured out what Conan is up to, and is trying to help, in a sense?
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby Kite » May 11th, 2010, 12:39 pm

mangaluva wrote:I think, as i've outlined, Shinichi is willing to break the law in the cause of justice.

Justice. Such a nice sounding word, and the perfect excuse to make your actions look glorious. Unfortunately, everyone has his own views on justice, and that isn't always as clear as day. Be careful with using the word justice, it's got to be the number one word abused  to persuade other people to go along with someone's actions. (Yes, I always become wary when someone uses the word "justice". Stands in my top 3 of most despicable words. Together with any name of a godlike creature who'd bless you for whatever reason. For the very reason it's a human person who's saying it. (Well, even if it was an animal, I still wouldn't believe it))

On the matter of Conan, if you strip it down to its bare essence, you have to admit Conan DOES use it purely for his selfish reasons. He NEEDS to, too, or he'll get killed. But you CAN'T call it justified, only "necessary for his survival" or "his detective morals taking over". He can't let a criminal escape, but that's just his own justice/morals talking (for whatever it's worth, we could have a manga about a shrunken detective who only focuses on the BO, and doesn't care about other criminals, so he leaves them to the police. After all, at the rate Shinichi is going, he'll end up doing nothing but cases all the time and get overworked, like the popular doctors nowadays.). And he doesn't hesitate to lie his way to wherever he wants to get, even if he needs his anesthetic needle for it. Which can prove to be dangerous, as he's too focused on his goal, uses whatever tools necessary, and neglects the rest.
In the first place, he DIDN'T even need to stay at his lover's place (saying it's to protect her, man, is that guy a hypocrite), because his very existence with her is the very thing that can cause her death, PLUS HE TRIES TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF THE BO WITH HER FATHER. You still call it justified? In the meantime, he happily uses the word "justice" to justify his criminal activities he can pull off because he has the body of a child, and people just don't expect the unexpected from children.

If he knew Kaito's cause, he might be more amenable to some law-breakage, but I think he'd probably want to find a way to do it other than stealing everything shiny...

That'd be quite funny. Conan does exactly the same things as Kaito, just in a different way. He doesn't steal, but he breaks in, attaches listening devices, searches through private things (you need a permit for that, privacy still kinda exists after all), and so on and so on.

Forgot another couple of easy lies from before Conan happened. He didn't quite get away with lying to his parents over that time when he was actually a grade-schooler ("We were just getting something she forgot!" Yukiko: "reeeeallly..." *noogie*) but when he was fifteen he got away with telling the hostess on the airplane that he was a PI to get at the photographer's body. He even tried to feed that lie to Megure-keibu.

Yes. I guess that's what parents are for when you're little.
But in the real world, after everything has been handled during a case, YOU would get sued because of interference and acting like you're an higher authority. Even if you're right about your findings. So beware.

Anyway, I believe this topic had a different subject. Sorry for digressing so much.  :-[ (And is it just my impression, or did I sound like an old lady giving a lecture about life to her grandkids?  :-X)
About Kaitou discovering Conan's identity, we can't really say imo. We barely see anything happen from Kaitou's viewpoint, so aside from Conan being a hyperintelligent and abnormal kid, and his favourite critic (did he really think/say that somewhere? I can't remember), we don't know what Kaitou really thinks about him, and how much he really is interested in him. Has there been any difference in how Kaito Kid adressed Conan over the cases? Sadly, I don't have the time to look it all up right now.
Last edited by Kite on May 11th, 2010, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KID figuring out Conan = Shinichi in Canonverse

Postby mangaluva » May 11th, 2010, 3:11 pm

Kite wrote:
mangaluva wrote:I think, as i've outlined, Shinichi is willing to break the law in the cause of justice.

Justice. Such a nice sounding word, and the perfect excuse to make your actions look glorious. Unfortunately, everyone has his own views on justice, and that isn't always as clear as day. Be careful with using the word justice, it's got to be the number one word abused  to persuade other people to go along with someone's actions. (Yes, I always become wary when someone uses the word "justice". Stands in my top 3 of most despicable words. Together with any name of a godlike creature who'd bless you for whatever reason. For the very reason it's a human person who's saying it. (Well, even if it was an animal, I still wouldn't believe it))

On the matter of Conan, if you strip it down to its bare essence, you have to admit Conan DOES use it purely for his selfish reasons. He NEEDS to, too, or he'll get killed. But you CAN'T call it justified, only "necessary for his survival" or "his detective morals taking over". He can't let a criminal escape, but that's just his own justice/morals talking (for whatever it's worth, we could have a manga about a shrunken detective who only focuses on the BO, and doesn't care about other criminals, so he leaves them to the police. After all, at the rate Shinichi is going, he'll end up doing nothing but cases all the time and get overworked, like the popular doctors nowadays.). And he doesn't hesitate to lie his way to wherever he wants to get, even if he needs his anesthetic needle for it. Which can prove to be dangerous, as he's too focused on his goal, uses whatever tools necessary, and neglects the rest.
In the first place, he DIDN'T even need to stay at his lover's place (saying it's to protect her, man, is that guy a hypocrite), because his very existence with her is the very thing that can cause her death, PLUS HE TRIES TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF THE BO WITH HER FATHER. You still call it justified? In the meantime, he happily uses the word "justice" to justify his criminal activities he can pull off because he has the body of a child, and people just don't expect the unexpected from children.


I didn't call it justified, I just said it's for his view of justice. I have to agree that it's  weird that he would call staying by Ran's side protecting her, even when it's demonstrably put her father in danger. Even he has to admit that it's purely because he wants to be near her.

Kite wrote:
About Kaitou discovering Conan's identity, we can't really say imo. We barely see anything happen from Kaitou's viewpoint, so aside from Conan being a hyperintelligent and abnormal kid, and his favourite critic (did he really think/say that somewhere? I can't remember), we don't know what Kaitou really thinks about him, and how much he really is interested in him. Has there been any difference in how Kaito Kid adressed Conan over the cases? Sadly, I don't have the time to look it all up right now.


Kaito seems fond of Conan, or at the very least the challenge he represents. I'm sure he wouldn't press too far into Conan's identity because he has more important matters at hand, like hunting down his father's murderers and finding a semi-mythical jewel.

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