Kaito or Kaito Not?

Discussion relevant to everyone's favorite "Phantom Thief" happens here.

Do you Like Kaito Kid?

There's NO WAY i'd dislike him.
128
91%
OF COURSE not!
12
9%
 
Total votes: 140
Chibby
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby Chibby » December 1st, 2010, 2:24 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Chibby wrote:
mangaluva wrote:
CaseClosed101 wrote:
mangaluva wrote:
itsashleylove wrote:
mangaluva wrote:And have to agree. Just a bit. (Frankly, I think he was a bit OOC in the Kirin's Horn case. A TAZER? Seriously? O_o)


I agree, that's just not Kid's style :o
I mean... he could have just used sleeping gas maybe, since sleeping gas is one of his magic tools ^^


And, y'know, he's used it a million times before and it's significantly less violent than mildly electrocuting somebody. I can see him tazering Hakuba for funsies, but a kid?


Tickling Hakuba, yes. But even tasering Hakuba is sooo un-KID.

But if it was sleeping gas, if would put everyone to sleep, hence not making the trick work. 'Cause Ayumi, Genta, Haibara,and Mitshiko needed to be awake. And KID himself.


I dunno, I've seen him use a little spritzer can for small, concentrated bursts. He could knock Conan out without sending anyone else to sleep, though they might smell the gas.


He also blew out the windows beforehand, though. The wind would make the gas difficult to use effectively, since it could diffuse it and force the gas away from where it needed to go. Even at a short range, it'd be risky. He had to use a lot of that gas on the guard in ep. 219, and it'd probably take more than a quick burst even to knock out a kid.

...To say nothing of the fact that he had to knock Conan out quick, otherwise the whole thing would be ruined. Kaito couldn't give him the time to react, because that could have let Shinichi tag him, grab him, or do something cryptic and brilliant that would give Kid away when the lights flicked back on (or possibly something completely mundane like pulling off part of the mask).
The single best strategy Kaito could have used is to grab Conan's watch and use it on him, either by twisting his wrist around and firing it like Vermouth did, or removing the watch and then gunning him with it. Either way, Kaito should be an expert enough to do this even in the dark. Kaito knows from observation the watch sedative works quickly, is safe, and the effects last a while. To finish the trick, just dump an empty syringe on the ground which achieves the same "need to take him to the hospital" effect as the taser.
Not only does this technique nullify Conan's most useful gadget, using Conan's own weapon used against him is a delightful way to mess with the detective's ego. If the watch doesn't take Conan down long enough for Kaito's liking, then Kaito Kid can knock Conan out with the watch and then feed him some sleeping pills while he's out. The pills will kick in before the effects of the watch wear off.


Hmm. Fair enough. I did a quick look through the chapters again, though, and it doesn't explicitly show Conan's watch, as he's got both the jacket and a long-sleeved shirt that effectively conceal his wrists. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it on, or even just have it -- I seem to remember him pulling it from a pocket occasionally. But this would have to assume Kaito knows where Conan's got the watch, as it's not likely he'll get a second chance at lifting it (especially with how he's avoiding Conan before the blackout -- interesting, that), and I'm not sure he'd have the time to pull the sleeves, twist and fire the watch, then grab the horn and stash it while rearranging the watch and sleeves before the lights come back on -- Kid's good, don't get me wrong, but to do that before Conan can get in even a knee-jerk reaction... (Vermouth had an advantage speed-wise in that Conan already had the watch ready and had prepared to be knocked out anyway). One hand pull the sleeves, one hand turn the watch, still leaves a hand free and the mouth open to yell. Cover the mouth, get to the watch with one hand, still leaves that other hand to grab and pull off a coat button or something. Hitting him from further is a possibility, but since Kid's only got a few seconds to knock Conan out, grab and hide the jewel, and then would have to return the watch to it's original place when he can't guarantee how Conan will land.... It'd be tight.

...Unless it was a case of "The Plot Demands It," which can be pretty difficult to argue with, especially considering Kid is very good. Still, as much fun as it would be, I can't see Kid gambling on stealing Conan's gadgets when he has a certainty by bringing his own means.


I'm not saying the tazer was the best choice. I'm not even saying it was a good choice. I don't like it anymore than anyone else. But it was the choice made, so I'm trying to figure out the rationale behind it.

Spoiler:
((Not sure if this counts as a spoiler, but just to be safe.)) It's possible Gosho wasn't expecting people to react this badly to Kid with a tazer -- note how he only locked Conan in a bathroom the next time they met.
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » December 1st, 2010, 9:32 am

Chibby wrote:Hmm. Fair enough. I did a quick look through the chapters again, though, and it doesn't explicitly show Conan's watch, as he's got both the jacket and a long-sleeved shirt that effectively conceal his wrists. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it on, or even just have it -- I seem to remember him pulling it from a pocket occasionally. But this would have to assume Kaito knows where Conan's got the watch, as it's not likely he'll get a second chance at lifting it (especially with how he's avoiding Conan before the blackout -- interesting, that), and I'm not sure he'd have the time to pull the sleeves, twist and fire the watch, then grab the horn and stash it while rearranging the watch and sleeves before the lights come back on -- Kid's good, don't get me wrong, but to do that before Conan can get in even a knee-jerk reaction... (Vermouth had an advantage speed-wise in that Conan already had the watch ready and had prepared to be knocked out anyway). One hand pull the sleeves, one hand turn the watch, still leaves a hand free and the mouth open to yell. Cover the mouth, get to the watch with one hand, still leaves that other hand to grab and pull off a coat button or something. Hitting him from further is a possibility, but since Kid's only got a few seconds to knock Conan out, grab and hide the jewel, and then would have to return the watch to it's original place when he can't guarantee how Conan will land.... It'd be tight.

...Unless it was a case of "The Plot Demands It," which can be pretty difficult to argue with, especially considering Kid is very good. Still, as much fun as it would be, I can't see Kid gambling on stealing Conan's gadgets when he has a certainty by bringing his own means.


I'm not saying the tazer was the best choice. I'm not even saying it was a good choice. I don't like it anymore than anyone else. But it was the choice made, so I'm trying to figure out the rationale behind it.

Spoiler:
((Not sure if this counts as a spoiler, but just to be safe.)) It's possible Gosho wasn't expecting people to react this badly to Kid with a tazer -- note how he only locked Conan in a bathroom the next time they met.

Assuming Conan did have the watch on him at the time is pretty reasonable since Conan usually likes to try to use it on Kid or keep it as a handy light source for blackouts. Even though I bet Kaito Kid could catch Conan's wrist in the dark and fire the watch at him faster than Conan could react, Kaito doesn't have to return Conan's watch or sleeves to their original state for the plan to work. Kaito may have noticed the adults don't know about Conan's gadgets, a fact Kaito has picked up on from seeing a few sleeping detective shows. The watch may be overlooked as disrupted in the struggle, especially with fake Nakamori guiding the investigation. Even if Kid didn't know the adults are unaware of Conan's gadgets, the presence of the syringe could mean Kaito used something else on Conan besides the watch, which would still necessitate a trip to the hospital to have Conan checked out.
Stopping Conan from yelling probably doesn't matter too much, as the taser plan wasn't disrupted by the taser's spark and Conan crying out which made Ayumi run over immediately.
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby Chibby » December 1st, 2010, 12:31 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Assuming Conan did have the watch on him at the time is pretty reasonable since Conan usually likes to try to use it on Kid or keep it as a handy light source for blackouts. Even though I bet Kaito Kid could catch Conan's wrist in the dark and fire the watch at him faster than Conan could react, Kaito doesn't have to return Conan's watch or sleeves to their original state for the plan to work. Kaito may have noticed the adults don't know about Conan's gadgets, a fact Kaito has picked up on from seeing a few sleeping detective shows. The watch may be overlooked as disrupted in the struggle, especially with fake Nakamori guiding the investigation. Even if Kid didn't know the adults are unaware of Conan's gadgets, the presence of the syringe could mean Kaito used something else on Conan besides the watch, which would still necessitate a trip to the hospital to have Conan checked out.
Stopping Conan from yelling probably doesn't matter too much, as the taser plan wasn't disrupted by the taser's spark and Conan crying out which made Ayumi run over immediately.


Right, okay. The main reason I included rearranging the watch and such would be to conceal the fact that Kid used it -- if the goal is to get Conan out, showing that he used that would defeat the purpose. Not only has both the DB and Kid seen Conan use the watch, Kid has seen Conan use it in front of the DB (Samizu's Mansion case).  So if it was made clear that the watch was used, the DB would say "Oh, no, it's just Conan-kun's stun watch, nothing to worry about, he'll wake up soon." Which would lead to some interesting questions in regards to Mr. Sleeping Kogoro if anyone but Jirokichi was the recurring character to hear it.... The syringe would be worrying, but (not saying Kid would count on this) Haibara does have a lot of experience in that field and might be able to tell it was empty from the start. And that parka's getting in the way again; it can be hard enough finding a vein in good conditions, and having to go for the neck in the dark would make it even more unlikely an injection wound would go unnoticed, particularly if the presence of the syringe means they would look for it.

And, now that I'm thinking about it, if he had the card gun on him, that would mean he left the stun gun to be found on purpose.... So he would have never really wanted them to think Conan had been poisoned in the first place. Huh. Well, considering he didn't put his escape plan into effect until he got called out and he had it set up long before the real Nakamori showed, at this point I'm wondering if he wanted Conan out of the room at all.... Just needed him out long enough to get the rest of the tricks in place, since Conan's the only one that would realize the significance of the mosquito sound. If Kid has realized the adults don't know about the gadgets, using it when the DB would know and probably reveal the truth could potentially blow Conan's cover for the Sleeping Detective shows, which, given Kid doesn't like murderers anymore than Conan, doesn't mesh well with me. Revealing Conan's secrets, especially when Kid is very capable of providing his own means, would be like cheating, and again, now I'm not sure if Kid even wanted Conan taken out of the room so much as he was just buying himself time.
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby Tanner-kun » December 3rd, 2010, 3:52 pm

112 to 9.
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby CaseClosed101 » December 3rd, 2010, 5:24 pm

Chibby wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Assuming Conan did have the watch on him at the time is pretty reasonable since Conan usually likes to try to use it on Kid or keep it as a handy light source for blackouts. Even though I bet Kaito Kid could catch Conan's wrist in the dark and fire the watch at him faster than Conan could react, Kaito doesn't have to return Conan's watch or sleeves to their original state for the plan to work. Kaito may have noticed the adults don't know about Conan's gadgets, a fact Kaito has picked up on from seeing a few sleeping detective shows. The watch may be overlooked as disrupted in the struggle, especially with fake Nakamori guiding the investigation. Even if Kid didn't know the adults are unaware of Conan's gadgets, the presence of the syringe could mean Kaito used something else on Conan besides the watch, which would still necessitate a trip to the hospital to have Conan checked out.
Stopping Conan from yelling probably doesn't matter too much, as the taser plan wasn't disrupted by the taser's spark and Conan crying out which made Ayumi run over immediately.


Right, okay. The main reason I included rearranging the watch and such would be to conceal the fact that Kid used it -- if the goal is to get Conan out, showing that he used that would defeat the purpose. Not only has both the DB and Kid seen Conan use the watch, Kid has seen Conan use it in front of the DB (Samizu's Mansion case).  So if it was made clear that the watch was used, the DB would say "Oh, no, it's just Conan-kun's stun watch, nothing to worry about, he'll wake up soon." Which would lead to some interesting questions in regards to Mr. Sleeping Kogoro if anyone but Jirokichi was the recurring character to hear it.... The syringe would be worrying, but (not saying Kid would count on this) Haibara does have a lot of experience in that field and might be able to tell it was empty from the start. And that parka's getting in the way again; it can be hard enough finding a vein in good conditions, and having to go for the neck in the dark would make it even more unlikely an injection wound would go unnoticed, particularly if the presence of the syringe means they would look for it.

And, now that I'm thinking about it, if he had the card gun on him, that would mean he left the stun gun to be found on purpose.... So he would have never really wanted them to think Conan had been poisoned in the first place. Huh. Well, considering he didn't put his escape plan into effect until he got called out and he had it set up long before the real Nakamori showed, at this point I'm wondering if he wanted Conan out of the room at all.... Just needed him out long enough to get the rest of the tricks in place, since Conan's the only one that would realize the significance of the mosquito sound. If Kid has realized the adults don't know about the gadgets, using it when the DB would know and probably reveal the truth could potentially blow Conan's cover for the Sleeping Detective shows, which, given Kid doesn't like murderers anymore than Conan, doesn't mesh well with me. Revealing Conan's secrets, especially when Kid is very capable of providing his own means, would be like cheating, and again, now I'm not sure if Kid even wanted Conan taken out of the room so much as he was just buying himself time.


You know what? Think of tthis this way. If Kid used Conan's stungun, then his gagetry would literally be revealed, and It is possible that the others would figure out how Mouri seems to figure out all those cases by sleeping.

Cause you know, Conan has a stungun and his IQ is much higher than Mouris.

Hence, the conclusion they could draw is that Canan puts Mouri to sleep and solves the case.

And if when the lights went on and Conan was just found unconcious with only to pinpoit things with a scream (Or not), They might jump to conclusions, like Conan was poisoned or something like that. And reputation would be ruined.

So tasering was the best way, because the police know the cause of Conan's unconcious, and Conan they wouldn't really be worried about Conan's health.(Well yes, but not that much) And kid's reputation wouldn't really be that tainted.
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby pofa » December 3rd, 2010, 5:30 pm

CaseClosed101 wrote:they wouldn't really be worried about Conan's health.(Well yes, but not that much)


This actually struck me more than the taser at first. ::) All the adults in the room, including police, gave one shocked, outraged look when it happened, then just left him on the floor to drool while they turned their attention back to Kid. Instead of having him checked out just in case, or even moving him to a more comfortable spot, or getting the rest of the kids out of the room. (The plot demanded that, I know, but still.)

Maybe it was just a case of "nobody really cares if Conan gets hurt except Ayumi." XD
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby kkslider5552000 » December 3rd, 2010, 5:38 pm

because that case didn't have enough plot holes...
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby Shuusgirl » December 22nd, 2010, 2:39 am

That or Kid already knows Conan is Shinichi, and wants to get him back for kicking that soccer ball at him every few episodes.
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Re: Kaito or Kaito Not?

Postby khaled_khunaifer » December 22nd, 2010, 1:07 pm

using a gas bomb wouldn't help him getting out from the room,

plus, if he used a gas bomb, the doubts will start to come around him.

so, he used the lights turning off, to make it looks normal and usual

then at the critical moment when he was known, he used his pre-final trick,
by using a gas-bomb, breaking the floor, paralysing the boy at the underground, and act like him stuck.

re-directing everyone's attention, he went into his final trick to disguise as a solider.

the most amazing trick, that i couldn't understand is, when did he stamp his cheek ?!

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