Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818-824 "Mystery Tr

[Stopwatch]

@Beastly: Not imo, he's just continuing his Poirot impression, but I do like the fact he realises Conan knows stuff on the case and am wildly hoping Conan will be distracted by a text and just tell Kogorou the solution so he can escape and go help out .
Unfortunately, I really doubt that's gonna happen, but if it did I'd so like to see Kogorou's reaction *waves Kogorou flag*

So, sonoci, as promised, my reply .

Spoiler:

Might just be me, but I'm all for Fusae being Mystery Woman. Not only is there the evi and stuff that fits from AJ M's theory, but you'll notice her necklace happened to change in this chapter. Now, why would a necklace that looked like Fusae's gingko one change just when the manga readers get a good, front view of it? I'd say that definitely marks it out as important.

Spoiler:

To be honest, I think her necklace was just a pearl necklace from the start :V The first shot of the woman (in 820) has the necklace obscured by not only clothes and the angle but also the distance from the "camera" so to speak. Distorted images are easily seen as things they're not. In the second shot, if you look closely you can actually see the pearls (little half circles). At the very least, the necklace "chain" has some substance to it, while Fusae's gingko necklace has a thin string for the "chain". There's also the fact that, well, other than to trick the manga viewers, why would Fusae change her necklace? In universe, she wouldn't have a reason to. Even if she did, why not just wear a regular necklace the whole time, rather than have it on inside then change it?

She would have a reason actually. If she's trying to be subtle... well, she wears her hat as a habit anyway it seems. The necklace being changed could just be as a precaution she took to reduce how easily she would be recognised further. There doesn't seem to be any evidence either way though atm and a pearl necklace isn't exactly specific to any characters so we can't say really .

Spoiler:

Also, as soon as Conan thought anyone was in any danger he got them to lock themselves in their rooms. He knows Okiya(Akai) can take care of himself, but I think there's no way he'd risk his mum. Remember episode 345? He made sure she was on that ship away from the actual danger, I don't think he'd change that now.

Spoiler:

What if his mother was acting beside Okiya without him knowing? In episode 345, Yukiko snuck back into the house and had been there for a bit, surprising Conan when he came inside. What if she'd had a similar plan, but then ran into Okiya instead? I mean, there hasn't been any clear indication that Conan's told his parents about Okiya. After likely another "brushing teeth" encounter, poor Okiya could have explained himself. Yukiko being Yukiko could have wanted to help, and in her spare time came down to visit. It wouldn't be a far cry to say she visited after London. This would explain Conan "not letting his mother get in danger" as he theoretically wouldn't know she's in danger in the first place.

Okiya wouldn't tell her though. He'd just feed Yukiko the same story all the other people who've managed to come across him when doing his teeth have, about his apartment being burnt down and Conan saying Shinichi gave him permission to stay.
Yukiko may be a bit confused by it, but I doubt she could get the real info out of him, especially if you believe Okiya is Akai (after all, trained FBI agents giving up that info just 'cause someone tried to forcefully ask?).

Spoiler:

And, tbh, I feel Fusae has much more reason to be there than Yukiko. It's Yukiko's house after all, no need to be secretive about visiting. As well as this, Yukiko's personality means she'd most likely try to surprise Conan after dropping in, but we saw no sign of that at all. The closest we got was a flashback to ten years ago.

Spoiler:

We don't really have any reason for Fusae to be there, so I don't know how that could be more  Anyway, "it's Yukiko's house after all" would kind of justify her visiting without giving Conan a heads up. Or, by extension, Okiya. It wouldn't be a far cry to say she dropped in, met Okiya, and spoke with him without Conan knowing. Her personality could also mean that she'd surprise him after dropping in during all of the hubbub and he'd have a major panic attack.

See above for the stuff about Yukiko finding out. Also, why would Yukiko wear a wig within her own home? Nah, Fusae seems a better bet for that, considering the fact that Agasa is nearby and she may want to not have someone recognising her hair and telling him/him seeing her. If Yukiko was spotted, she's good enough at making things up on the spot, and, like I said before, it's her house, why would she look suspicious visiting it?
Anyway, I think the Fusae stuff has evidence behind it. Not only her heritage (which was made a big deal of, I should add), but the speculation about her and Billy spying on Yukiko and the DBs that case. It may be only fairly circumstantial at this stage, but it's yet another plot thread that's still not been picked up that matches pretty neatly with the left-off stuff from Fusae's case. Besides, you've got to admit they're the closest match to the shadowish figures that's been found in the entire manga.

Spoiler:

Which brings me to my next point, Conan doesn't have a particularly close relationship with his parents. Unless they forced themselves in, he wouldn't tell them a thing (look at how he reacted after being APTXed, he never even thought to tell them). Aoyama wouldn't let Yuusaku be involved because he'd ruin any suspense by immediately figuring everything out and in-universe, Yuusaku would probably be nearby to Yukiko and he clearly isn't anywhere near the mystery woman unless you want to argue for Okiya being Yuusaku .

Spoiler:

Him lacking a close relation with his parents is another reason the "Yukiko collaborating with Okiya" idea could also be an option. Since they're not close, Yukiko could also keep secrets, like helping Okiya. Yukiko's personality also seems like one to force itself in, especially to protect her son. As for Yuusaku, he's the lazy type, Yukiko's the "I'm going to leave and not tell you (Yuusaku)" type, and where was Yuusaku during the Halloween case? He could very well not know what's going on and just be in the US happy as could be, trolling his editors

I'm not saying that's it a complete impossibility of the woman being Fusae, I'm saying that it's also not a complete impossibility that the woman is Yukiko 

I think I've covered this bit above, but correct me if I'm wrong .
Hmm... I still think it's more likely Fusae, but I guess I can admit Yukiko as more possible than most of the other candidates (Jodie, Elena and Kir, mostly)

(...and again, I agree with you on Yuusaku )

[Misztina]

We haven't discussed one important thing (I think)!

Conan might not ask this again, so I will: Where will Ai get her clothes, if she wants and will turn back to Shiho? Will Vermouth lend her some, or will she knock out Ran and strip her?

[Stopwatch]

We haven't discussed one important thing (I think)!

Conan might not ask this again, so I will: Where will Ai get her clothes, if she wants and will turn back to Shiho? Will Vermouth lend her some, or will she knock out Ran and strip her?

Excellent question *nods*

I'm not sure if Haibara's even thought that far ahead though ...

[Kaito Lady]

We haven't discussed one important thing (I think)!

Conan might not ask this again, so I will: Where will Ai get her clothes, if she wants and will turn back to Shiho? Will Vermouth lend her some, or will she knock out Ran and strip her?

if she knocks out ran, ill be very happy to see it

[Kor]

We haven't discussed one important thing (I think)!

Conan might not ask this again, so I will: Where will Ai get her clothes, if she wants and will turn back to Shiho? Will Vermouth lend her some, or will she knock out Ran and strip her?

I believe this is partly why we shouldn't expect to see Shiho in this case. Either Okiya catches her or....Ai will run away, Okiya will chase her, on the way Ai will encounter another one of the freaks and something will happen.

Why am I imagining a cartoonish chase scene inside the train where Conan, Ai, Ran, Okiya, SA, Amuro and Sera are running after and from each other?

[Battler]

We haven't discussed one important thing (I think)!

Conan might not ask this again, so I will: Where will Ai get her clothes, if she wants and will turn back to Shiho? Will Vermouth lend her some, or will she knock out Ran and strip her?

i hope so DD, but she would probably steal some from the other passengers or yukiko(if it's really her) gives her some

[s.pel]

Why am I imagining a cartoonish chase scene inside the train where Conan, Ai, Ran, Okiya, SA, Amuro and Sera are running after and from each other?

..and this music would be perfect for that scene XD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNhDstL4-k

[Tegari]

Random though: What if Ran would see Ai turn into Shiho by taking the drug?

Doubt that would happen.

[Kor]

Because chasing after Haibara (who seemed worried) obviously doesn't make any sense, right? While we could argue about episode 345 (though it has already been done, so let's not.), in this case, it's ridiculous to say that Ran is out of place. They all are in a freaking train, they don't have anywhere else to go for now. It is perfectly logical for Ran to encounter one of the mystery characters because they are all in the same place.

I already stated her being there at all is a Chekov's gun, I'm saying she's not involved in the actual goings on (with the exception of Sera, I guess) to be used for any other reason than Gosho needs to force her into the plot out of liking her. Using her in this really is pushing characters that have been operation the whole arc to the side for her.

And repeating yourself over and over isn't really an argument.
Answer these two questions, please:

1) With the settings we've been given about the case, is it illogical for Ran to be in the train?
2) With what we know about Ran's character and traits, are her actions (so far) seem out of character or not normal?

I think what he's trying to say is that yeah, now that Ran's on the train, her actions are in character. But there's so much plot stuff going on here with Okiya, Sera, Hat Lady, Vermouth, Amuro, Scar Akai, Haibara, and Bourbon--stuff that Ran doesn't really have a stake in, at least knowingly yet--that putting her in this case in the first place feels more like we're sticking to the "all the characters get together" formula out of habit, than putting her there because she has a reason to be there. Her being in the "case" part is fine and natural, but if she does have a big role in this resolution of the BO stuff, I agree that it might feel like she hasn't really earned it in this arc--this arc in which she hasn't really been very involved. :V The screentime and character development might be better spent on other characters who have been more involved in the arc.

I will say that if she does end up having a role in resolving this, she should probably at least learn something--if she ends up in the middle of the big blowup of TWO arcs and things go back to "status quo" with her afterward, it's really going to be pushing the limits of believability.

Here's the problem in the case you're trying to make. You're constantly referring to Ran, yet there are other characters who (at least if we go by your logic) have nothing to do with the Bourbon party, yet they are still in the train - the DB, Sonoko and Kogoro. So I find it odd that you first go to complain about the female lead instead of the presence of the more minor characters.

Sorry, I have to apologize to Pofa. Originally, I thought that ProfParanoia was the one who made Pofa's post (I blame it on the fact that until a while ago, they had a nearly identical avatar, both names start with P, and I guess it's my fault as well to some degree ), so I was replying to your post as in the context of "ProfParanoia wrote it" and I thought I was still arguing with him. That's why I wrote "You're constantly referring to Ran" or "at least if we go by your logic", but those things (along with probably most of my post there) was irrelevant to what you said. My bad.

For Ran not really earning a place in this arc, I have to disagree. While it's true that she didn't do a whole lot, she interacted with all the plot characters more than once - Okiya, Sera and Amuro; so it's not like she was 100% alienated from this arc. Plus if we go with the theory that Okiya is Akai, Ran also knows him. In all this mess, it might just be that the status quo (putting a wall between Ran and the B.O.) will be changed after the end of this arc.

[pulis0tilis]

Random though: What if Ran would see Ai turn into Shiho by taking the drug?

Doubt that would happen.

Maybe she would know that they taken a drug that shrunk them and deduce that conan is sinichi?... HAHA
and this arc will reveal to her that he is force to drink a drug from organization when they are in tropical land in the first chapter... sorry for bad english.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Actually, Haibara literary grabbed Ran's ass into the BO plot/current confrontation :V

[unclesporkums]

In all this mess, it might just be that the status quo (putting a wall between Ran and the B.O.) will be changed after the end of this arc.

That would be awesome, imo.

[MagicianUndertheMoonlight]

Given that Okiya seems to be Akai, for reason expounded upon in great detail and with sound logic in the thread, it seems he knows that Ai is Shiho. As such, I imagine that when he takes Ai back to his car with the hat lady (again likely Yukiko), they will provide her with clothes and explain that if she wants to protect Ran, Kogoro, Sonoko, and the DB, that she should change back into Shiho with the drug.

This will trigger a move from Amuro (Bourbon) and most likely Scar Akai will trick Sera into inadvertently helping the BO out until she wizens up later because of Okiya or Conan. Vermouth would not make a move on Ai while she's in child form since she's reluctant to go after her because of her promise to Conan. She would wait till Shiho took her adult form to minimize the chances of Conan and the rest of his party becoming BO targets now and in the future.

[Tegari]

Random though: What if Ran would see Ai turn into Shiho by taking the drug?

Doubt that would happen.

Maybe she would know that they taken a drug that shrunk them and deduce that conan is sinichi?... HAHA
and this arc will reveal to her that he is force to drink a drug from organization when they are in tropical land in the first chapter... sorry for bad english.

The story would take a different turn if Ran would finally know about BO and everything else.
But I don't think it will happen anytime soon. ; 3;

[saorin]

In all this mess, it might just be that the status quo (putting a wall between Ran and the B.O.) will be changed after the end of this arc.

That would be awesome, imo.

Yes! It might be actually pretty nice to break that barrier for once, though I still can't really believe Gosho is making that move. (Have I lost all hope regarding this scenario?! XD)