Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818-824 "Mystery Tr

[pofa]

Because chasing after Haibara (who seemed worried) obviously doesn't make any sense, right? While we could argue about episode 345 (though it has already been done, so let's not.), in this case, it's ridiculous to say that Ran is out of place. They all are in a freaking train, they don't have anywhere else to go for now. It is perfectly logical for Ran to encounter one of the mystery characters because they are all in the same place.

I already stated her being there at all is a Chekov's gun, I'm saying she's not involved in the actual goings on (with the exception of Sera, I guess) to be used for any other reason than Gosho needs to force her into the plot out of liking her. Using her in this really is pushing characters that have been operation the whole arc to the side for her.

And repeating yourself over and over isn't really an argument.
Answer these two questions, please:

1) With the settings we've been given about the case, is it illogical for Ran to be in the train?
2) With what we know about Ran's character and traits, are her actions (so far) seem out of character or not normal?

I think what he's trying to say is that yeah, now that Ran's on the train, her actions are in character. But there's so much plot stuff going on here with Okiya, Sera, Hat Lady, Vermouth, Amuro, Scar Akai, Haibara, and Bourbon--stuff that Ran doesn't really have a stake in, at least knowingly yet--that putting her in this case in the first place feels more like we're sticking to the "all the characters get together" formula out of habit, than putting her there because she has a reason to be there. Her being in the "case" part is fine and natural, but if she does have a big role in this resolution of the BO stuff, I agree that it might feel like she hasn't really earned it in this arc--this arc in which she hasn't really been very involved. :V The screentime and character development might be better spent on other characters who have been more involved in the arc.

I will say that if she does end up having a role in resolving this, she should probably at least learn something--if she ends up in the middle of the big blowup of TWO arcs and things go back to "status quo" with her afterward, it's really going to be pushing the limits of believability.

[sonoci]

...if she ends up in the middle of the big blowup of TWO arcs and things go back to "status quo" with her afterward, it's really going to be pushing the limits of believability.

Oh lord, yeah. Please don't let something like this happen :< Either she's involved and stays involved, or just isn't involved. I wouldn't like to see her involved just for the sake of being involved -_-

[OrchidAngel]

Hi, new poster here, but I've been following DC for awhile. Just putting out a theory here, may have already been postulated somewhere.  How sure are we that Elena Miyano is dead? Is this actually confirmed? From Haibara's memory of the tapes, it seems that her mom is saying that they (Haibara's parents) have to leave them. Could this be hinting that they were planning to fake their deaths? And if so, could the mystery hat lady with Okiya be Elena Miyano?  It would make sense that she would want to help Haibara. Just a thought.  

[Beastly]

Has it been brought up yet but what message did Conan got?Could it be Yukiko telling her she's there and saw some suspicious person? I don't know...

[sonoci]

How sure are we that Elena Miyano is dead? Is this actually confirmed? From Haibara's memory of the tapes, it seems that her mom is saying that they (Haibara's parents) have to leave them. Could this be hinting that they were planning to fake their deaths? And if so, could the mystery hat lady with Okiya be Elena Miyano?  It would make sense that she would want to help Haibara. Just a thought.  

I actually would love it if this happened. That way, the tapes wouldn't be as much of letdown (aka, the important part was the "We have to leave you and your sister" rather than the "Silver Bullet" part). It's a long shot though

[kaitokid41]

Has it been brought up yet but what message did Conan got?Could it be Yukiko telling her she's there and saw some suspicious person? I don't know...

i've been wondering about that, too. i think it's either okiya or vermouth.

[Kor]

Because chasing after Haibara (who seemed worried) obviously doesn't make any sense, right? While we could argue about episode 345 (though it has already been done, so let's not.), in this case, it's ridiculous to say that Ran is out of place. They all are in a freaking train, they don't have anywhere else to go for now. It is perfectly logical for Ran to encounter one of the mystery characters because they are all in the same place.

I already stated her being there at all is a Chekov's gun, I'm saying she's not involved in the actual goings on (with the exception of Sera, I guess) to be used for any other reason than Gosho needs to force her into the plot out of liking her. Using her in this really is pushing characters that have been operation the whole arc to the side for her.

And repeating yourself over and over isn't really an argument.
Answer these two questions, please:

1) With the settings we've been given about the case, is it illogical for Ran to be in the train?
2) With what we know about Ran's character and traits, are her actions (so far) seem out of character or not normal?

I think what he's trying to say is that yeah, now that Ran's on the train, her actions are in character. But there's so much plot stuff going on here with Okiya, Sera, Hat Lady, Vermouth, Amuro, Scar Akai, Haibara, and Bourbon--stuff that Ran doesn't really have a stake in, at least knowingly yet--that putting her in this case in the first place feels more like we're sticking to the "all the characters get together" formula out of habit, than putting her there because she has a reason to be there. Her being in the "case" part is fine and natural, but if she does have a big role in this resolution of the BO stuff, I agree that it might feel like she hasn't really earned it in this arc--this arc in which she hasn't really been very involved. :V The screentime and character development might be better spent on other characters who have been more involved in the arc.

I will say that if she does end up having a role in resolving this, she should probably at least learn something--if she ends up in the middle of the big blowup of TWO arcs and things go back to "status quo" with her afterward, it's really going to be pushing the limits of believability.

Here's the problem in the case you're trying to make. You're constantly referring to Ran, yet there are other characters who (at least if we go by your logic) have nothing to do with the Bourbon party, yet they are still in the train - the DB, Sonoko and Kogoro. So I find it odd that you first go to complain about the female lead instead of the presence of the more minor characters.

[cute Ran]

Hi, new poster here, but I've been following DC for awhile. Just putting out a theory here, may have already been postulated somewhere.  How sure are we that Elena Miyano is dead? Is this actually confirmed? From Haibara's memory of the tapes, it seems that her mom is saying that they (Haibara's parents) have to leave them. Could this be hinting that they were planning to fake their deaths? And if so, could the mystery hat lady with Okiya be Elena Miyano?  It would make sense that she would want to help Haibara. Just a thought.  

I agree with you
Mysterious woman If you were not vermouth I think She mother Ai Want to  help Haibara   And protection ai  from Organization
so okiya  Subaru with his mother In room  ;D
I am still   insistent okiya = bourbon =  ai brother

I hope to take a look at my theory And vote    :)

[saorin]

Here's the problem in the case you're trying to make. You're constantly referring to Ran, yet there are other characters who (at least if we go by your logic) have nothing to do with the Bourbon party, yet they are still in the train - the DB, Sonoko and Kogoro. So I find it odd that you first go to complain about the female lead instead of the presence of the more minor characters.

^ THIS. (I might think following a series where you apparently are keen on having the female lead stay out most of the time... must be unnerving. =D)

How sure are we that Elena Miyano is dead? Is this actually confirmed? From Haibara's memory of the tapes, it seems that her mom is saying that they (Haibara's parents) have to leave them. Could this be hinting that they were planning to fake their deaths? And if so, could the mystery hat lady with Okiya be Elena Miyano?

And here's something, I'd find rather weird. We're just about to FINALLY -maybe- solve the mystery about three characters whose real identities are currently still foggy. I don't want to mess with yet ANOTHER relatively new person appearing already when we haven't even dealt with the other stuff yet. This would get pretty confusing. (Yes, I do consider Elena as a "new" character, what with her having had no real "screen time" yet.)

...if she ends up in the middle of the big blowup of TWO arcs and things go back to "status quo" with her afterward, it's really going to be pushing the limits of believability.

Oh lord, yeah. Please don't let something like this happen :< Either she's involved and stays involved, or just isn't involved. I wouldn't like to see her involved just for the sake of being involved -_-

Though this wouldn't mean Ran's character is at fault, but Gosho, because this would be crappiest writing and I hope we all agree we don't expect this to happen. =D

[musashiro]

If this idea is true, then i never knew Akai loves drinking Bourbon..

^ Manga Volume 65 File 3 Pages 3-4: The Fated Individual

Agent Camel mentions Akai fav drink is Bourbon.

oops, forgot about that... thanks...

therefore Okiya is really Akai, and Amuro is Bourbon...

can't wait for 822...

[zek]

I noticed that Amuro does seem to be doing something, hes not pulled off any real action yet, but the way hes creeping about and listening in makes me think that hes waiting for the right moment. If hes Bourbon and Bourbon is clever, then hes using all the info hes over hearing to plan how to best strike, he may well be Bourbon.

But hes needs to keep his alias intact (maybe so he can keep watch on Mouri?)

[sonoci]

Here's the problem in the case you're trying to make. You're constantly referring to Ran, yet there are other characters who (at least if we go by your logic) have nothing to do with the Bourbon party, yet they are still in the train - the DB, Sonoko and Kogoro. So I find it odd that you first go to complain about the female lead instead of the presence of the more minor characters.

I think pofa's case didn't have a problem with Ran being on the train, it was that she's going after Ai. Sonoko and the DB (surprisingly enough for the latter) are far more likely to actually stay in the room and thus out of the Bourbon business than Ran is. The status of character (major/minor) had nothing to do with who was being "complained" about - it was the fact that Ran's actions suggested that she's going to get involved in some way or form. I'm sure the same topic would be coming up if, say, the DB decided to go outside instead of Ran.


Anyway, all of this is actually more or less pofa guessing at what Prof was trying to say and me guessing at what pofa was trying to say. In other words, there could be a lot of misconception between the lines here. While I'm not too keen on Ran's actions so far (it's giving me too much deja vu on the "Save Haibara from BO but still go back to status quo"), I can only assume what pofa was trying to say - and by extension Prof. Therefore, if I don't continue this point after this post it's because I - quite frankly - don't care enough about the matter to really get involved. As far as I'm concerned, Ran is going to do what she's going to do whether I like it or not, why try to explain why I would like it or not when someone else brought it up? 

tl;dr that's my two cents. And I'm donatin' no more 

[musashiro]

by the way, what's the "shina"???

Spoiler:

http://i996.mangareader.net/detective-conan/821/detective-conan-3362445.jpg

[AP24]

It's shinai, a bamboo sword

[Beastly]

Is Kogoro acting somewhat suspicious?