Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 818-824 "Mystery Tr

[User 4869]

Scar Akai #2 = Vermouth (This one confuses me. Is Sera pretending to be fooled, and has actually re-conciled with Okiya few chapters back but acting to keep up the pretense that Akai is dead ?)

Why didn't I though of that. I always has a feeling that when Sera say she's a bad kid and say she has a business to attend, that after she saw Okiya in Kodo's house. She actually go confront him and know by now Okiya is Akai. But after that she still act as she's still out of the loop. But if she actually pretend her reaction. That will solve her lines that I mentioned.

[musashiro]

its my first post here, and i gotta say that this "Mystery train" got me thinking for a while...  i happen to watch the anime around the clash of red and black and akai died on the last episode i watched (i read the manga first and now the anime). i watched closely how akai "died". 

a few minutes later, i searched about the latest manga discussion and i am amazed on the theories here.. also thanks to the "is akai dead" thread, it answered most of my questions as to how akai "died"...

regarding the identities, i think Amuro is definitely bourbon, i also support the idea that Okiya is Akai in disguise and Yukiko helping him. If this idea is true, then i never knew Akai loves drinking Bourbon..

[Fennec]

Hi, I'm a new fan and have been obsessively reading Detective Conan until I was caught up. Hooray for summer break!

Anyways, I'd like to pose one of my own theories: Okiya/Akai is purposely coercing Ai into taking the antidote. Think about it: he has a smug smile on his face when she runs away. If the Hat Lady is indeed Yukiko (personally, I'm for her being Fusae, since there's reason to believe she's already had contact with Akai, but oh well), she could have told him about the antidote. However, I have no particular motive for this. The best I can come up with is that, again, if Hat Lady is Yukiko, then Yukiko could disguise someone as Ai (either Conan or Ayumi with the help of sleeping pills). They'd be able to have Ai and Shiho be in the same place, making it seem that Ai and Shiho are different people to the Black Organization, ensuring Ai's identity. Then they'd get Shiho/Ai away with some distraction and disguise her. Even if Vermouth were aware of Yukiko being there, she wouldn't give them away due to her promise to Conan (as pointing it out would be direct involvement in the search for Sherry) and her old friendship with Yukiko.

Also, who says Yukiko and Yusaku don't already know Akai? If I recall correctly, when they pretended to kidnap Conan and then try to convince him to go to America with them, they mentioned asking their "FBI friends" to help look for the Black Organization. It's possible that they were referring to Akai.

One final thing: Murobashi sounds a bit like Moroboshi, Akai's old alias. Probably a coincidence, but who knows? Total crackpot theory here: Bourbon is said to hate Akai more than Gin, so he could have murdered Murobashi just for having the same name. Also, everyone's saying how great it is that the murder happened, so he could have planned to kill someone from the start to make his job of hunting Sherry a bit easier. Bonus: Bourbon will probably commit suicide rather than be arrested, removing him as a threat forever.

[kriegpaolo_23]

I am loving the crackpot theories lol. It is evident though that Okiya's smile is not what it seems, and it is highly likely that Okiya is not a member of the BO. Also, the woman is most likely not Vermouth, my first thought was instantly Yukiko. However after browsing some posts I do now believe it could be another FBI member (probably Fusae as predicted by the internet crackpot theorists ).

I am also suspicious of Sera's reactions when she saw Scar Akai. At this time it seems that Scar Akai = Vermouth.

After looking at Okiya's reaction seeing Amuro, I am thinking that perhaps Amuro is Bourbon after all.

P.S. Finally they revealed the contents of the tape....damn it the wait wasn't worth it.


Edit: Scar Akai stood in front of Sera for the first time, incredibly short....it can then be confirmed that he is indeed Vermouth in disguise (I support the possibility that Bourbon and Vermouth interchangeably dresses up as Scar Akai at different times)

[mihai]

Also Ran reminds people (Shiho and Akai) of Akemi, so that may crop up again and give her a reason to be relevant.

^ that
I hope that after this, Ai will be closer to Ran than before, almost like sisters

Spoiler:

Anyways, I'd like to pose one of my own theories: Okiya/Akai is purposely coercing Ai into taking the antidote. Think about it: he has a smug smile on his face when she runs away. If the Hat Lady is indeed Yukiko (personally, I'm for her being Fusae, since there's reason to believe she's already had contact with Akai, but oh well), she could have told him about the antidote. However, I have no particular motive for this. The best I can come up with is that, again, if Hat Lady is Yukiko, then Yukiko could disguise someone as Ai (either Conan or Ayumi with the help of sleeping pills). They'd be able to have Ai and Shiho be in the same place, making it seem that Ai and Shiho are different people to the Black Organization, ensuring Ai's identity. Then they'd get Shiho/Ai away with some distraction and disguise her. Even if Vermouth were aware of Yukiko being there, she wouldn't give them away due to her promise to Conan (as pointing it out would be direct involvement in the search for Sherry) and her old friendship with Yukiko.

Also, who says Yukiko and Yusaku don't already know Akai? If I recall correctly, when they pretended to kidnap Conan and then try to convince him to go to America with them, they mentioned asking their "FBI friends" to help look for the Black Organization. It's possible that they were referring to Akai.

One final thing: Murobashi sounds a bit like Moroboshi, Akai's old alias. Probably a coincidence, but who knows? Total crackpot theory here: Bourbon is said to hate Akai more than Gin, so he could have murdered Murobashi just for having the same name. Also, everyone's saying how great it is that the murder happened, so he could have planned to kill someone from the start to make his job of hunting Sherry a bit easier. Bonus: Bourbon will probably commit suicide rather than be arrested, removing him as a threat forever.

1. most clues do indeed point towards the mystery lady being Yukiko. Also the way Okiya acted towards Haibara could be them wanting to capture either Vermouth or Bourbon by making sure they see Shiho and won't think about any enemies on the train(except Vermouth knows Conanis there). Until now it seems Akai kept his presence hidden from the FBI so he might only want to catch only Bourbon or Vermouth and he doesn't have the right men or just doesn't know about Gin and Vodka waiting in Nagoya.

2. Yukiko could be friends with Shuu and his family, we'll just have to wait for her to mention a certain Shuu-chan who's part of FBI

3. the name of the victim and the motive of the murder don't have any connection to Akai, Bourbon or any other BO. It was stated in the files that he is connected to the magnate who died in the fire

[unclesporkums]

I disagree. I think when it comes to the BO and 'Conan getting his body back' plot, Ran can always be somewhat relevant. It's also perfectly legitimate for the main femalde lead not to be completely left on the side .

Also Ran reminds people (Shiho and Akai) of Akemi, so that may crop up again and give her a reason to be relevant.

I agree with both of you.

[ProfParanoia]

I hope Ran has a significant role (and Kogoro too). Not the same as in episode 345 but still a significant role.

It'd be forcing her into a climax she has no reference in, basically so Ran can hog screen time from the relevant characters.

I disagree. I think when it comes to the BO and 'Conan getting his body back' plot, Ran can always be somewhat relevant. It's also perfectly legitimate for the main femalde lead not to be completely left on the side .

But she's always shoe horned in under some guise of having a reason to be their (like being reminiscent of Akemi). She's never there because she should or because it would make sense, she's there because Gosho likes Ran and has to give her time in places where she's really not worth having around and (going off of last time) it feels so forced for so little.

[Kor]

I hope Ran has a significant role (and Kogoro too). Not the same as in episode 345 but still a significant role.

It'd be forcing her into a climax she has no reference in, basically so Ran can hog screen time from the relevant characters.

I disagree. I think when it comes to the BO and 'Conan getting his body back' plot, Ran can always be somewhat relevant. It's also perfectly legitimate for the main femalde lead not to be completely left on the side .

But she's always shoe horned in under some guise of having a reason to be their (like being reminiscent of Akemi). She's never there because she should or because it would make sense, she's there because Gosho likes Ran and has to give her time in places where she's really not worth having around and (going off of last time) it feels so forced for so little.

Because chasing after Haibara (who seemed worried) obviously doesn't make any sense, right? While we could argue about episode 345 (though it has already been done, so let's not.), in this case, it's ridiculous to say that Ran is out of place. They all are in a freaking train, they don't have anywhere else to go for now. It is perfectly logical for Ran to encounter one of the mystery characters because they are all in the same place.

[ProfParanoia]

Because chasing after Haibara (who seemed worried) obviously doesn't make any sense, right? While we could argue about episode 345 (though it has already been done, so let's not.), in this case, it's ridiculous to say that Ran is out of place. They all are in a freaking train, they don't have anywhere else to go for now. It is perfectly logical for Ran to encounter one of the mystery characters because they are all in the same place.

I already stated her being there at all is a Chekov's gun, I'm saying she's not involved in the actual goings on (with the exception of Sera, I guess) to be used for any other reason than Gosho needs to force her into the plot out of liking her. Using her in this really is pushing characters that have been operation the whole arc to the side for her.

[Zyester]

If this idea is true, then i never knew Akai loves drinking Bourbon..

^ Manga Volume 65 File 3 Pages 3-4: The Fated Individual

Agent Camel mentions Akai fav drink is Bourbon.

[saorin]

You did read the part where I said I don't want her to have a part in this right?

I hope Ran has a significant role (and Kogoro too). Not the same as in episode 345 but still a significant role.

It'd be forcing her into a climax she has no reference in, basically so Ran can hog screen time from the relevant characters.

Of course I did not. Yeah, my bad, sorry =D
I'm just seeing it the other way round. If she's there for NO reason, I'd rather have her stay out of the case entirely. I HATE main characters being thrown in a case that's already stuffed with tons of characters just for the sake of....being there.
I never said I'd like her to save the day. I mean, I don't want the DB in there either. Complaining doesn't make them vanish though. =P

[Kor]

Because chasing after Haibara (who seemed worried) obviously doesn't make any sense, right? While we could argue about episode 345 (though it has already been done, so let's not.), in this case, it's ridiculous to say that Ran is out of place. They all are in a freaking train, they don't have anywhere else to go for now. It is perfectly logical for Ran to encounter one of the mystery characters because they are all in the same place.

I already stated her being there at all is a Chekov's gun, I'm saying she's not involved in the actual goings on (with the exception of Sera, I guess) to be used for any other reason than Gosho needs to force her into the plot out of liking her. Using her in this really is pushing characters that have been operation the whole arc to the side for her.

And repeating yourself over and over isn't really an argument.
Answer these two questions, please:

1) With the settings we've been given about the case, is it illogical for Ran to be in the train?
2) With what we know about Ran's character and traits, are her actions (so far) seem out of character or not normal?

[mihai]

I agree it's logical for Ran to be on the train. Especially after Okiya mentioned the sister thing, I wouldn't mind Haibara and Ran being closer friends. Not to mention we have on the train another sister looking for her brother who supposedly died.

regarding the case, who wanna bet Conan and Sera(if SA doesn't plan to abduct her) will reveal the truth with or without Kogoro's help next chapter?

[MagicianUndertheMoonlight]

I don't think Yukiko will appear in this story. It will just spoil everything.

Amuro has some connection with Wataru Date. I just need to find out more about him in this case to know what it really is. Some BO guy who has a police friend or something?

...and about Amuro again, why did Okiya said that "Heaven is on their side" while watching him?

...could the Vermouth-like lady be Sherry's mom?

I assumed after that issue that Date was the one who trained Amuro to be a detective before he joined the BO. His joining the BO might have something to do with Date's death or some falling out between them.

I might have been reading to much into it, but I think the heaven reference was a hint to the reader that Okiya's not with the BO. Vermouth, when referring to the BO, says that they "can be both of God and the Devil", siding with neither.

[HeiseiHolmes]

"if" Yukiko is goin to appear in this arc I believe Yusaku is also appearing.