Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
ProfParanoia
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby ProfParanoia » January 18th, 2016, 4:01 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
ProfParanoia wrote:Has Gosho ever outright stated that the boss isn't the serial killer Kiichiro Numabuchi?


Probably not. I can't see him being the boss, though.

He was introduced in that Osaka case, was supposed to given the APTX (Gosho said something about a red herring there), Vermouth disguised as a serial killer in NYC, and Haibara couldn't sense him. Even if he's not the answer he still fits the red herring bill.
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Serinox
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Serinox » January 18th, 2016, 6:25 pm

ProfParanoia wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
ProfParanoia wrote:Has Gosho ever outright stated that the boss isn't the serial killer Kiichiro Numabuchi?


Probably not. I can't see him being the boss, though.

He was introduced in that Osaka case, was supposed to given the APTX (Gosho said something about a red herring there), Vermouth disguised as a serial killer in NYC, and Haibara couldn't sense him. Even if he's not the answer he still fits the red herring bill.

Do you mean what Gosho said recently about a red herring? Because that red herring is supposed to be in Volume 18, while Numabuchi first appeared in Volume 19 (and Haibara disclosed that APTX detail in Volume 35).
ProfParanoia
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby ProfParanoia » January 18th, 2016, 7:41 pm

Serinox wrote:Do you mean what Gosho said recently about a red herring? Because that red herring is supposed to be in Volume 18, while Numabuchi first appeared in Volume 19 (and Haibara disclosed that APTX detail in Volume 35).

Yes I know, I just thought him being a possible target for it and that being a thing mentioned by him was worth listing among the other things. The thing he refered to was a list of partially covered names of people with various and often covered statuses. That being said I had a chance to look since at the page again and the names don't seem to match. I was just curious if the people who followed Gosho's interviews and side books had him removing Kiichiro.
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BlackOrg
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby BlackOrg » February 6th, 2016, 6:16 am

Hi guys, first post here. English is not my first language so i'll try my best to explain myself properly. I used to be a great fan of this manga back in 2007 but as almost ten years have passed i'm not sure to be able to remember everything, plus i stopped reading it around Red vs Black, so i'm asking you to check carefully what i'm going to write below cause i might do some
errors. ^___^

I have found my old DC mangas and i started to read some cases from the first 30 numbers trying to find some hints about the boss. The starting point has been my convinction about the boss not only named but already phisically appeared and portrayed in these volumes: i think it would be better suited for the plot as well as in Gosho's style, as he likes to fool the reader, than a boss out of nowhere at the end of the manga. I searched for characters with at least two appearances in cases solved without putting Kogoro to sleep due to the fact that it's highly probable that a clever person like the boss should be able to find out that something's wrong, like Heiji or Eisuke did for example. He should not have seen Haibara in child aspect too. The Araide case in v24 is the only one where sleeping Kogoro explains facts apart from the suspects, it sounded suspicious to me even if Gosho did it cause it will be the key to unmask Vermouth in Halloween Party. I then bumped into the Vermouth quote, something like "the boss is very cautious, the kind to ruin a plan for overthinking", and i thought in another view of the HP story arc it could be perfectly suited for Araide. So here's my theory: Vermouth left fingerprints on Jodie's eyeglass, thus leading to unmask her as Chris Vineyard. Fbi then monitored Vermouth and saw her getting close to Araide. They thought she wanted to took his place, but it could also mean that real Araide and Vermouth know each other and got in touch while monitored. Once discover the FBI was getting closer, in order not to make the FBI suspect Araide, Vermouth is forced to actually replace Araide and search for Sherry disguised as him instead of simply search for her in every school and university. These are exactly the same questions on which Conan puzzles in file 458. Vermouth is then unmasked cause she was not aware of the housekeeper fact back in the Araide's father murder: if Araide was the boss he could inform her about these facts, avoiding her to be unmasked by stealing Kogoro's documentations and getting questioned by Jodie, however this suits the description of "cautious" and "the kind to ruin a plan by overthinking" perfectly. In the worst case scenario in fact Vermouth, knowing the above facts that she should not be aware of, would be caught by FBI, unmasking him too. After HP, real Araide in the Teitan phantom case asks Jodie if Vermouth is really a bad person, this might be connected to Chris as his favourite, an attempt to defend her. In the same case he sees Sleeping Sonoko, but i think it is of no interest as long as an high school student solves an easy case. Then in the 3 kittens case, the last Araide known to me apparition, he saw Haibara for the first time, but she was disguised as a male.

Other speculations: Araide's father surname is not known, maybe linked to Karasuma family? Plus Araide's mother died after being forced to drink alcohol, and she told the stepmother to take care of his son, not allowing him to take the way of his father, kinda strange since he was not a good person but not a criminal too.
Last edited by BlackOrg on February 6th, 2016, 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oxynou
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Oxynou » February 6th, 2016, 6:31 am

It's an interesting theory...and I have a question about Araide, where was it when Vermouth usurped his identity ? I totally forgot this part.
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BlackOrg
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby BlackOrg » February 6th, 2016, 6:33 am

Oxynou wrote:It's an interesting theory...and I have a question about Araide, where was it when Vermouth usurped his identity ? I totally forgot this part.

He was under FBI protection in America.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 6th, 2016, 4:08 pm

I don't think this is the case, because in a recent Super Digest Book (where Gosho answers a bunch of questions), he said something along the lines of "I completely/totally forgot" about Tomoaki Ariade.
BlackOrg
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby BlackOrg » February 8th, 2016, 6:51 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I don't think this is the case, because in a recent Super Digest Book (where Gosho answers a bunch of questions), he said something along the lines of "I completely/totally forgot" about Tomoaki Ariade.

I think that this is even more suspicious. He bring Araide back home, potentially with a love story with the housekeeper, just to make him vanish then? For real Gosho?
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 8th, 2016, 8:01 pm

BlackOrg wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I don't think this is the case, because in a recent Super Digest Book (where Gosho answers a bunch of questions), he said something along the lines of "I completely/totally forgot" about Tomoaki Ariade.

I think that this is even more suspicious. He bring Araide back home, potentially with a love story with the housekeeper, just to make him vanish then? For real Gosho?


Are you sure you didn't make that up? And even if you're not, what's the significance?

Plus, Gosho's response featured a "sorry" and a laugh. I think he genuinely forgot about him after Tomoaki served his purpose as Vermouth's disguise.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
BlackOrg
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby BlackOrg » February 9th, 2016, 1:47 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
BlackOrg wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I don't think this is the case, because in a recent Super Digest Book (where Gosho answers a bunch of questions), he said something along the lines of "I completely/totally forgot" about Tomoaki Ariade.

I think that this is even more suspicious. He bring Araide back home, potentially with a love story with the housekeeper, just to make him vanish then? For real Gosho?


Are you sure you didn't make that up? And even if you're not, what's the significance?

Plus, Gosho's response featured a "sorry" and a laugh. I think he genuinely forgot about him after Tomoaki served his purpose as Vermouth's disguise.

Every character since now has been developed in that way, even Chiba has his own love story. Why bringing him back then, he could just left him in America, what's the purpose? Eisuke was dropped the same way after Clash of red and black, ok, but he is sent to US. Araide's return and what he says after it do not add anything to the plot, i think it makes no sense then.
Plus, how can he forget a character who has been drawn many times in 15 volumes? And even if he truly forgot about him, what does it mean?
Lets make an experiment: you are Gosho Aoyama and you have planned Araide as the boss. You do not want to make him appear every 3 cases, that's ok since almost every recurrent character is or has been suspected by fans, most times even without a reason or sense such as Agasa or Mitsuhiko. So you decide to drop him after Black Impact. Someone then might ask you about Araide, what would be your answer?
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 9th, 2016, 4:09 am

BlackOrg wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
BlackOrg wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I don't think this is the case, because in a recent Super Digest Book (where Gosho answers a bunch of questions), he said something along the lines of "I completely/totally forgot" about Tomoaki Ariade.

I think that this is even more suspicious. He bring Araide back home, potentially with a love story with the housekeeper, just to make him vanish then? For real Gosho?


Are you sure you didn't make that up? And even if you're not, what's the significance?

Plus, Gosho's response featured a "sorry" and a laugh. I think he genuinely forgot about him after Tomoaki served his purpose as Vermouth's disguise.

Every character since now has been developed in that way, even Chiba has his own love story. Why bringing him back then, he could just left him in America, what's the purpose? Eisuke was dropped the same way after Clash of red and black, ok, but he is sent to US. Araide's return and what he says after it do not add anything to the plot, i think it makes no sense then.
Plus, how can he forget a character who has been drawn many times in 15 volumes? And even if he truly forgot about him, what does it mean?
Lets make an experiment: you are Gosho Aoyama and you have planned Araide as the boss. You do not want to make him appear every 3 cases, that's ok since almost every recurrent character is or has been suspected by fans, most times even without a reason or sense such as Agasa or Mitsuhiko. So you decide to drop him after Black Impact. Someone then might ask you about Araide, what would be your answer?

The purpose was, not only for Conan to get strong hints on vermouth's true goals, but also to give us a glimpse on the things vermouth has done in Teitan High school...
Gosho could have also thought that he could give Araide a purpose later on if he needed him, But then eventually forgot about him...

Btw, if Conan was ever to get answers to Vermouth suspicion behaviours(such as why she was protecting him from BO and the thing he was wondering in file 458), it would serve as a nice conclusion for her overall story and her possible death during the final climax... and that would probably leave him a nice final impression of her.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 9th, 2016, 9:26 am

BlackOrg wrote:Every character since now has been developed in that way, even Chiba has his own love story. Why bringing him back then, he could just left him in America, what's the purpose? Eisuke was dropped the same way after Clash of red and black, ok, but he is sent to US. Araide's return and what he says after it do not add anything to the plot, i think it makes no sense then.
Plus, how can he forget a character who has been drawn many times in 15 volumes? And even if he truly forgot about him, what does it mean?


This is what we call a wasted character.

It means he served his purpose as Vermouth's disguise and became irrelevant to the main plot.

While he may return, his importance may never return to the position it had during the Vermouth arc.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
boruto
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby boruto » February 12th, 2016, 6:47 am

Araide could be suspect but I think it lacks "closeness to Ai" factor... isn't a major clue we got is that Ai would be really surprised of who Anokata is?
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 12th, 2016, 7:50 am

boruto wrote:isn't a major clue we got is that Ai would be really surprised of who Anokata is?


That was from a source originally published in English, with no direct word from Gosho. It's not a reliable hint.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
irishock
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby irishock » March 14th, 2016, 8:32 am

Every single time I rewatch 394 I just notice how Agasa nervously laughs at the notion of the boss's mail address having a kid's song tone to it.

I'm still convinced Agasa was always going to be the boss until Gosho canned it bc the theory got popular tbh

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