Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
k11chi
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby k11chi » November 28th, 2016, 10:55 am

Magpieslayer wrote:Crackpot theory #5
Akemi Miyano
Though very unlikely, i believe it is possible that she is still alive. Looking at the chapter it happened in, despite her falling prone and no longer moving again, she could always be faking. This seems almost impossible until you consider she could have had an accomplice, aka, Gin. If she cordinated with him she could be shot in a non vital area. If you look at the page she was shot in, the bullet hit her in the abdomen. There is enough room there that a non fatal shot is possible.
The reason for doing this, confirm the death of Shinichi Kudo. That's just my #5 favorite crackpot theory. My next one will be one i have never seen guessed before and i believe minds will be blown

Then you'd have to explain why Gin would even bother helping her fake death? Does he want to kill her again like Akai?
He's not the type of guy who just helps random people at something like that. Why would he care what Akemi thought? He wants to kill Sherry.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 29th, 2016, 6:07 am

Themaninarmor wrote:As long as i remember, Gosho said that the full name is already appeared somewhere in manga... But he never stated that the name is shown in the same time as the figure itself...


Then where did his name appear?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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jimmy_kud0_tv2
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » November 29th, 2016, 10:55 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Themaninarmor wrote:As long as i remember, Gosho said that the full name is already appeared somewhere in manga... But he never stated that the name is shown in the same time as the figure itself...


Then where did his name appear?


at some point before file 553
It really saddens me to see people continuing to talk about this series as if its dying or that they are losing interest in it. This has been one of my favorite series' since I first heard of it in 2005 and I have never looked back. I really hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 29th, 2016, 11:44 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Themaninarmor wrote:As long as i remember, Gosho said that the full name is already appeared somewhere in manga... But he never stated that the name is shown in the same time as the figure itself...


Then where did his name appear?


at some point before file 553


No, I'm asking Themaninarmor where he thinks the name of the old man from the bus jack who he thinks is Anokata appeared.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Spimer
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » November 29th, 2016, 12:11 pm

No, themaininarmor refers to the deaf old man from the Shinkansen bombing case who was one of the suspects of having the bomb-rigged case.

I tried to argue that the boss has appeared with his/her full name but he/she thinks that the name might've appeared later and the old man not having a name back then doesn't mean he can be excluded from his/her ano kata candidate.

Anyway, I verified that this info about "ano kata" having appeared with a name is true. Here's the wording by Gosho:

それは言えない。でも、今までにフルネームで登場している人です
I can't tell you (the answer). But it's a character who's appeared with his/her full name.

So I think that means we've got a visual. Before this he only said the name but now he says "a character" which could mean that, a physical character.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 29th, 2016, 3:14 pm

Which tells us that the boss appeared with his real name, while Daikoku is definitely an alias name for his organization.

It's questionable however that he is in a child's body...
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
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Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » November 29th, 2016, 4:04 pm

Doesn't necesarily have to be. It could be a red herring like Karasuma Renya and his crow emblem.

"Full name" != real name. It could be an alias. Bourbon debuted as Amuro Tooru but that was a fake name and his real one if Furuya Rei.

And the boss doesn't necesarily need to be a man. Could be a woman pretending to be a man.

Just because his/her message to Vermouth used the "だ" (da) particle which is associated with men's speaking that doesn't automatically make the boss a man.

The personal pronoun "私" (watashi) is used by both genders too.

So we can't establish the sex of the boss yet.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 29th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Spimer wrote:Doesn't necesarily have to be. It could be a red herring like Karasuma Renya and his crow emblem.

I'm not so sure Gosho ever intended for Karasuma to be a red-herring, since he never addressed him as a potential plot character.

Spimer wrote:"Full name" != real name. It could be an alias. Bourbon debuted as Amuro Tooru but that was a fake name and his real one if Furuya Rei.

I'm assuming that "Daikoku" is definitely connected to the BO, because of the reasons addressed in Chek's theory, and since it's most likely an alias, I automatically assumed that the name he appeared with could be his real name, but of course, we can't say for sure yet.

Spimer wrote:And the boss doesn't necesarily need to be a man. Could be a woman pretending to be a man.

Just because his/her message to Vermouth used the "だ" (da) particle which is associated with men's speaking that doesn't automatically make the boss a man.

The personal pronoun "私" (watashi) is used by both genders too.

So we can't establish the sex of the boss yet.

Wasn't claiming that the boss is male, even if I referred to the boss as "his" and "he". it's just simpler for me when I'm writing.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Themaninarmor » November 30th, 2016, 4:20 am

Spimer wrote:No, themaininarmor refers to the deaf old man from the Shinkansen bombing case who was one of the suspects of having the bomb-rigged case.

I tried to argue that the boss has appeared with his/her full name but he/she thinks that the name might've appeared later and the old man not having a name back then doesn't mean he can be excluded from his/her ano kata candidate.

Anyway, I verified that this info about "ano kata" having appeared with a name is true. Here's the wording by Gosho:

それは言えない。でも、今までにフルネームで登場している人です
I can't tell you (the answer). But it's a character who's appeared with his/her full name.

So I think that means we've got a visual. Before this he only said the name but now he says "a character" which could mean that, a physical character.


Then the name of the boss and his physical appearance is appeared at the same time?

Hmm... I must re-write my list again.. but that old fat man, he's suspicious behavior is still bugging me.. So i will put him in my reserve list :D
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EpocConan
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby EpocConan » January 3rd, 2017, 1:50 am

I want to start off with some background. I've read and watched all manga/anime/movies related to DC, huge fan of the series for 10+ years. I do think I could help shine some light on who the boss may be. This is going to be long, sorry in advance.

First off, people mention how Aoyoma only expected DC to last a few months or maybe 50-100 chapters total, but what does actually mean with regards to the identity of the BO boss? Honestly, not that much if we consider that Aoyoma might have given a huge hint about the boss by issue 30, but never gave the hint at all when the series took off. Some minor details might change, like I think Yoko Okino could have been Vermouth or Jodie originally (though I doubt she's in the BO or FBI now), but I do believe Aoyoma knew who the boss would be probably within the first few chapters and has not changed it since.


The Miyano Family:

I think there are so many mysteries behind the Miyano family, that the key to figuring out the boss probably lies there. It's important to point out that in ch13 was the first time a Miyano was written into the story and Ai was mentioned by ch16 but didn't appear till ch176 because the series was doing so well, but in terms of developing the main plot line chapters 17-175 are mostly filler. I would guess as soon as the Miyano family was developed, all the BO story lines up until the start of the Kir arc were already devised (about issues 450). My guess is based on Eisuke and Kir being kind of irrelevant characters by issue 980+, therefore I doubt they were part of the original design of the series. I sure hope Eisuke isn't the boss, that would be horrible.

I do think Aoyoma likely thought up almost every BO arch up to ch434 probably within the first few issues of the series. While DC is my favorite anime/manga by a mile, it's at least 90% filler. If Aoyoma could have really completed DC in 3 months or a year, then that mean DC is basically 20 years of filler. And I do believe every BO story from the first 500 chapters or so could have been condensed down to 50, but the filler is fun even if it doesn't advance the plot. Either way, I believe understanding who the boss might be and their motives fall those first 434 chapters.

Also, because the whole story of the relationship between Akai, Akemi, and Shiho has so many question marks, I think many of those questions can help to understand who the boss might be.



What does the boss know about Aptx4869/Silver Bullet?:

First off, if Vermouth doesn't age, then clearly the boss knows that Aptx4869 or Silver Bullet have the ability to reverse aging, is the boss that stupid that he didn't realize Vermouth doesn't age? If we assume the boss knows the drug Shiho was working on can reverse a person's age like how his/her “favorite” Vermouth does not age and knowing Shiho was able to escape her handcuffs when she was detained by the BO, then I'd be very surprised if the boss doesn't know Haibara shrunk. Pisco, Vermouth, and Curacao all knew Ai shrunk, is the boss dumber than they are? Even, Pisco vaguely knew about the Miyano's work and knew Ai was a shrunken Shiho based on the Miyano's work, why would Pisco know but the main boss wouldn't?

Assuming the boss knew what Shiho was researching could reverse or stop aging like Vermouth and Pisco deduced Ai was Shiho based on knowing the Miyano's. I believe it's likely the boss should have been able to deduce Ai escaped her handcuffs by shrinking since her handcuffs were not broken.



Akai and Akemi:

Onto the bigger point, Akai was about 23-25 when he met/dated Akemi, Akemi was probably about 19-20, and Haibara would be about 13 at the time assuming Haibara was actually 18. According to James Black, Akai used Akemi to use a 13 year old Shiho to get close to the organization somehow. The question then is, how would a 13 year old girl who was supposedly studying in America till she was 13 have any sort of sway to help Akai to gain rank in the organization?

Another interesting question is why the organization looked after both Akemi and Shiho basically their entire lives. Assuming Shiho is a super genius is one thing, but what about Akemi? Assuming their parents died when Akemi was around age 5 or 6 and Shiho was 1 or so, why wouldn't the organization either kill Akemi or remove her from the organization somehow and just focus on grooming Haibara assuming they could somehow determine she was a genius by age 1? Why would the BO keep Akemi alive and watch over her?

Consider this too, Akemi dated a spy in Akai for a few years but Akemi was supposedly very low rank, you'd think the boss would kill Akemi right away for dating a spy, but the boss doesn't. Akemi dated Akai 5 years prior to the current timeline, meaning Haibara likely wasn't the BO head scientist by age 13 or so there would be no reason not to kill Akemi unless she was close to the boss. The BO kill people all the time and blow up buildings w/o a second thought, but somehow letting an FBI spy in like Akai would be a good reason to kill Akemi if not both Akemi and Shiho, but neither were killed, which seems odd. You could argue that Shiho was too valuable to the organization at the time, but she was only 13 and presumably had very little contact with her sister since Shiho studied in America till she was 13.

Akai somehow raised his rank in the organization but only dated a low level person, Shiho was likely 13 or possibly in America when Akai and Akemi started dating. Based on this and more to follow, I think it's likely that both Akemi and Shiho are actually much closer to the boss than Aoyoma wants us to believe.



Questions about Akemi:

It's important to point out that Gin wasn't necessarily supposed to kill Akemi. Even though Akemi brought Akai into the organization and tried to get her and her sister out of the organization. Gin did not shoot Akemi until she pulled out a gun and tried to kill him. There is little evidence that the boss gave the order for Gin to kill Akemi, in fact I got sense the BO following her throughout her life even after her parents supposedly died was meant to protect her more than anything, not to harm her. James Black says in ch599 page 10 that both Akemi and Shiho would be killed if Akemi failed the $1 billion Yen robbery, but this is contradicted by both Gin who told Akemi that Shiho was still needed and Ai also said she was told to continue working even after her sister died. For James Black to have this information likely meant Akemi was somehow in touch with the FBI or Akai which could be reason for Gin to kill Akemi even if the boss didn't give the order.

Think about it, once the Miyano parents died you would think it would be way easier for the BO to just kill Akemi than devote manpower to monitoring her for 20+ years. To my knowledge, there was no other situation in the BO, where children are watched throughout their lives like in the case of Akemi and Shiho.

It's also possible that Akemi could have left the BO without her sister, but it was Akemi potentially turning Shiho against the BO or trying to have Shiho leave it as to why Gin killed her even if the boss may not have ordered it.

Some interesting points about Akemi, Akemi seemed to be very heavily underestimated by both the BO. BO assumed she couldn't rob bank but she did and she was able to trick Gin with the fake key. She also figured out Akai was part of the FBI before he tells her.

In chapter 180, page 15, there is a flashback of Akemi talking about Edogawa Conan in the context of Kudo Shinichi. Akemi mentions she already told Shiho about Conan in the past. Considering she mentions Conan again in the context of Kudo Shinichi means it is possible Akemi already knew at this point that the drug is capable of reversing the aging process. When Conan tells Akemi he is really Kudo Shinichi while she is dying, she doesn't seem too surprised in either the manga or the anime. In that conversation with Shiho in chapter 180 pg 15, Akemi tells Ai to “stop making that drug” which is odd because you wouldn't think Akemi should know about what Aptx4869 can do, we don't really know what Akemi actually knew about Aptx4869 up to this point.

Maybe Akemi knew Mary shrunk already through Akai and knew about Aptx4869 that way. Or it may be possible Elena and Akemi are same person, there are some plot holes but it is possible. Either way, for Akemi to bring up Conan to her sister on at least two occasions and to bring up Conan in the context of Kudo Shinichi leads me to believe Akemi more about Aptx4869 than most casual readers would expect. Maybe Elena left tapes for Akemi explaining Silver Bullet or Akemi listened to Shiho's tapes or it might be possible Akemi somehow became connected with the FBI through Akai.



Why is Akai the Silver Bullet?:

When we add in Akai being a silver bullet to the mix, the story becomes more interesting. What makes Akai so special that he'd be a silver bullet? The BO had other spies some who had code names, but what made Akai that silver bullet which could reach the heart? If Akemi was actually someone very important to the boss like possibly the bosses daughter, then by having her fall in love with an FBI spy could create a lot of turmoil. Having a spy be his daughter's love interest would be a strike to the bosses' heart for sure.

Vermouth calls Conan the “silver bullet” meaning Conan can touch her heart and bring about emotions in her in a possibly similar manner to how Akai can reach the bosses heart, presumably through Akemi, Akai could take down the boss.



How did Akai know Akemi was in the BO?

Another very important point, why did Akai try to date/befriend Akemi? How did Akai know Akemi was part of the BO? If Akai learned through FBI contacts that Akemi was part of the BO, how did the FBI find out. It's possible Akai found out about the Miyanos through Mary. There has been a lot of hints that Mary is somehow related to the Miyano family, with physical similarities between Mary and Ai being pointed out by Conan in Chapter 941, page 16.

The fact that Ai's BO radar has gone off many times for Akai/Subaru and has gone off for Sera in chapter 819, page 7, is just further proof that the boss is could be related to Akai, Sera, and possibly Mary. And assuming Shiho is related to Mary as well, then the BOss should also be related to Shiho as well.



How are the BOss and Shiho connected? Does the BOss really want Shiho killed?:

There are a few instances in DC which lead me to believe there is someone in the BO, possibly the boss, who has been protecting Shiho from other BO members. First, who was the cameraman who took Pisco's picture? Think about it, he took Pisco's picture shooting a gun in the dark. Somehow he knew where Pisco would be at the moment he was shooting a gun in total darkness. And somehow the cameraman was able to release the picture quick enough for Gin to kill Pisco. Gin said specifically that person gave the order for Gin to kill Pisco. Was this cameraman there to trap Pisco, protect Sherry, or was it just bad luck that Pisco who worked for the BO at least 20 years happened to get his identity reveal by a random cameraman. At this point I think it's a valid question.

In Confrontation with the Black Organization, Akai supposedly took all of Calvados' weapons and broke his legs, yet somehow Calvados still gets shot in the head and presumably commits suicide. I doubt Akai would fail to find the weapon Calvados brought, but it's possible another member, possibly the BOss was there to monitor the situation and have Calvados commit suicide so he wouldn't get caught. Even if Calvados had a concealed weapon proof the BOss could have been watching is the text Vermouth got where the BOss said she was given too much freedom and to “come to my side.” The implication of message is the BOss somehow he already knew she failed her mission to either retrieve or kill Sherry and that Vermouth should stop going after Sherry. For whatever reason, the first two texts from the boss in DC seemed to protect Shiho, whether it's a coincidence or not is unclear.

To my knowledge, the BOss never tells other members to explicitly kill Shiho. And when Shiho refused to work for the BO anymore and was handcuffed, there isn't concrete evidence the BOss gave an order to kill her it (though it was assumed), otherwise she would likely have been already killed. However, I do believe the #1 rule of the BO is seemingly to keep the identity of the BO secret, so even close relatives of the BOss are not necessarily safe if the organization is being threatened.

The boss gave orders for Gin to kill Pisco (helps Ai and the good guys). Vermouth tries to secretly kill Ai, boss tells her Vermouth he's given her too much freedom and to come by his side (helps Ai and the good guys). In Movie 20, the boss stops Gin from killing Kir and Bourbon (helps the good guys, even if it's non canon). Assuming Akemi is a daughter or granddaughter of the boss, it would makes sense for the boss want Akai dead as a top priority because Akai is the main reason Akemi is dead, which would explain why the boss would really want Akai dead.

If the boss is some kind of genius, he probably wouldn't have sent orders which helped to prevent Shiho from being killed on at least 2 separate occasions unless he didn't actually want her killed. It seems like Vermouth and Gin are the two people who want Sherry dead the most, the boss may not want her dead at all. The 3 closest attempts to killing Sherry by the BO in DC were 2 times by Vermouth (ch434 and ch824) and once by Gin (ch242), and to we don't know if the boss ordered these attempts on Sherry's life or if Gin and Vermouth were acting independent of the boss.



The Elena Miyano Tapes:

There are a lot of questions regarding the tapes Ai got from her father's old house. First question is why were parts of the tape blank? I have two theories on this, either someone like Akemi or Atsushi removed parts which Shiho shouldn't hear (which is possible) or the actual tape was modified to give a secret message which would not be found out even if the BO found the tapes. If Elena connected a thin film to the hidden parts in the cassette, then parts of the cassette would appear blank.

The bigger question in my opinion regarding the tapes themselves is why did Akemi wait 18-20 years to try to give her sisters the tapes? Assuming Shiho was in Japan since she was 13, Akemi would have 5 years to give her the tapes unless Akemi didn't actually have the tapes for years or possibly the tape were made more recently than 20 years ago. This leads me to question further if Elena Miyano and Atsushi Miyano are actually dead or if somehow they reverse aged.



Identity of the BOss:

For the reasons listed and more, I do think the boss is somehow related to Shiho and the Miyanos in some way and likely the Sera family as well. It is kind of odd that 2 of the 3 known characters to reverse age (assuming Mary did) in DC look so similar in Mary and Haibara. I would guess they're each related to the boss in some way. Whether it's Shiho's mother, father, unknown sibling, grandparent, or whatever, I think there is a ton evidence hinting the boss is likely related to the Miyano family in some way. If Aptx4869 was started 50 years ago, technically Ai's grandparent or great grandparent could technically be the BOss. Of course, if the boss did reverse age, he/she could take on almost any identity even if they were once Atsushi or Elena Miyano. DC is all about people having characters with multiple identities, almost every major character has been someone else at some point.



Also.... Just based on story structure as well. It seems like the main plot of DC moves through the Miyano's and Akai's family, so it's hard for me to think the BOss is not related to Ai and for the BOss to make sense.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby k11chi » January 3rd, 2017, 4:57 am

The boss could have changed. The research that Haibara picked up was important... If they kill Skemi they wouldn't expect Haibara to do anything.

Akai being a Silver Bullet was explained in movie 18. There's no reason for Gosho to explain it any more than that..
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 3rd, 2017, 5:29 am

EpocConan wrote:
Spoiler:
I want to start off with some background. I've read and watched all manga/anime/movies related to DC, huge fan of the series for 10+ years. I do think I could help shine some light on who the boss may be. This is going to be long, sorry in advance.

First off, people mention how Aoyoma only expected DC to last a few months or maybe 50-100 chapters total, but what does actually mean with regards to the identity of the BO boss? Honestly, not that much if we consider that Aoyoma might have given a huge hint about the boss by issue 30, but never gave the hint at all when the series took off. Some minor details might change, like I think Yoko Okino could have been Vermouth or Jodie originally (though I doubt she's in the BO or FBI now), but I do believe Aoyoma knew who the boss would be probably within the first few chapters and has not changed it since.


The Miyano Family:

I think there are so many mysteries behind the Miyano family, that the key to figuring out the boss probably lies there. It's important to point out that in ch13 was the first time a Miyano was written into the story and Ai was mentioned by ch16 but didn't appear till ch176 because the series was doing so well, but in terms of developing the main plot line chapters 17-175 are mostly filler. I would guess as soon as the Miyano family was developed, all the BO story lines up until the start of the Kir arc were already devised (about issues 450). My guess is based on Eisuke and Kir being kind of irrelevant characters by issue 980+, therefore I doubt they were part of the original design of the series. I sure hope Eisuke isn't the boss, that would be horrible.

I do think Aoyoma likely thought up almost every BO arch up to ch434 probably within the first few issues of the series. While DC is my favorite anime/manga by a mile, it's at least 90% filler. If Aoyoma could have really completed DC in 3 months or a year, then that mean DC is basically 20 years of filler. And I do believe every BO story from the first 500 chapters or so could have been condensed down to 50, but the filler is fun even if it doesn't advance the plot. Either way, I believe understanding who the boss might be and their motives fall those first 434 chapters.

Also, because the whole story of the relationship between Akai, Akemi, and Shiho has so many question marks, I think many of those questions can help to understand who the boss might be.



What does the boss know about Aptx4869/Silver Bullet?:

First off, if Vermouth doesn't age, then clearly the boss knows that Aptx4869 or Silver Bullet have the ability to reverse aging, is the boss that stupid that he didn't realize Vermouth doesn't age? If we assume the boss knows the drug Shiho was working on can reverse a person's age like how his/her “favorite” Vermouth does not age and knowing Shiho was able to escape her handcuffs when she was detained by the BO, then I'd be very surprised if the boss doesn't know Haibara shrunk. Pisco, Vermouth, and Curacao all knew Ai shrunk, is the boss dumber than they are? Even, Pisco vaguely knew about the Miyano's work and knew Ai was a shrunken Shiho based on the Miyano's work, why would Pisco know but the main boss wouldn't?

Assuming the boss knew what Shiho was researching could reverse or stop aging like Vermouth and Pisco deduced Ai was Shiho based on knowing the Miyano's. I believe it's likely the boss should have been able to deduce Ai escaped her handcuffs by shrinking since her handcuffs were not broken.



Akai and Akemi:

Onto the bigger point, Akai was about 23-25 when he met/dated Akemi, Akemi was probably about 19-20, and Haibara would be about 13 at the time assuming Haibara was actually 18. According to James Black, Akai used Akemi to use a 13 year old Shiho to get close to the organization somehow. The question then is, how would a 13 year old girl who was supposedly studying in America till she was 13 have any sort of sway to help Akai to gain rank in the organization?

Another interesting question is why the organization looked after both Akemi and Shiho basically their entire lives. Assuming Shiho is a super genius is one thing, but what about Akemi? Assuming their parents died when Akemi was around age 5 or 6 and Shiho was 1 or so, why wouldn't the organization either kill Akemi or remove her from the organization somehow and just focus on grooming Haibara assuming they could somehow determine she was a genius by age 1? Why would the BO keep Akemi alive and watch over her?

Consider this too, Akemi dated a spy in Akai for a few years but Akemi was supposedly very low rank, you'd think the boss would kill Akemi right away for dating a spy, but the boss doesn't. Akemi dated Akai 5 years prior to the current timeline, meaning Haibara likely wasn't the BO head scientist by age 13 or so there would be no reason not to kill Akemi unless she was close to the boss. The BO kill people all the time and blow up buildings w/o a second thought, but somehow letting an FBI spy in like Akai would be a good reason to kill Akemi if not both Akemi and Shiho, but neither were killed, which seems odd. You could argue that Shiho was too valuable to the organization at the time, but she was only 13 and presumably had very little contact with her sister since Shiho studied in America till she was 13.

Akai somehow raised his rank in the organization but only dated a low level person, Shiho was likely 13 or possibly in America when Akai and Akemi started dating. Based on this and more to follow, I think it's likely that both Akemi and Shiho are actually much closer to the boss than Aoyoma wants us to believe.



Questions about Akemi:

It's important to point out that Gin wasn't necessarily supposed to kill Akemi. Even though Akemi brought Akai into the organization and tried to get her and her sister out of the organization. Gin did not shoot Akemi until she pulled out a gun and tried to kill him. There is little evidence that the boss gave the order for Gin to kill Akemi, in fact I got sense the BO following her throughout her life even after her parents supposedly died was meant to protect her more than anything, not to harm her. James Black says in ch599 page 10 that both Akemi and Shiho would be killed if Akemi failed the $1 billion Yen robbery, but this is contradicted by both Gin who told Akemi that Shiho was still needed and Ai also said she was told to continue working even after her sister died. For James Black to have this information likely meant Akemi was somehow in touch with the FBI or Akai which could be reason for Gin to kill Akemi even if the boss didn't give the order.

Think about it, once the Miyano parents died you would think it would be way easier for the BO to just kill Akemi than devote manpower to monitoring her for 20+ years. To my knowledge, there was no other situation in the BO, where children are watched throughout their lives like in the case of Akemi and Shiho.

It's also possible that Akemi could have left the BO without her sister, but it was Akemi potentially turning Shiho against the BO or trying to have Shiho leave it as to why Gin killed her even if the boss may not have ordered it.

Some interesting points about Akemi, Akemi seemed to be very heavily underestimated by both the BO. BO assumed she couldn't rob bank but she did and she was able to trick Gin with the fake key. She also figured out Akai was part of the FBI before he tells her.

In chapter 180, page 15, there is a flashback of Akemi talking about Edogawa Conan in the context of Kudo Shinichi. Akemi mentions she already told Shiho about Conan in the past. Considering she mentions Conan again in the context of Kudo Shinichi means it is possible Akemi already knew at this point that the drug is capable of reversing the aging process. When Conan tells Akemi he is really Kudo Shinichi while she is dying, she doesn't seem too surprised in either the manga or the anime. In that conversation with Shiho in chapter 180 pg 15, Akemi tells Ai to “stop making that drug” which is odd because you wouldn't think Akemi should know about what Aptx4869 can do, we don't really know what Akemi actually knew about Aptx4869 up to this point.

Maybe Akemi knew Mary shrunk already through Akai and knew about Aptx4869 that way. Or it may be possible Elena and Akemi are same person, there are some plot holes but it is possible. Either way, for Akemi to bring up Conan to her sister on at least two occasions and to bring up Conan in the context of Kudo Shinichi leads me to believe Akemi more about Aptx4869 than most casual readers would expect. Maybe Elena left tapes for Akemi explaining Silver Bullet or Akemi listened to Shiho's tapes or it might be possible Akemi somehow became connected with the FBI through Akai.



Why is Akai the Silver Bullet?:

When we add in Akai being a silver bullet to the mix, the story becomes more interesting. What makes Akai so special that he'd be a silver bullet? The BO had other spies some who had code names, but what made Akai that silver bullet which could reach the heart? If Akemi was actually someone very important to the boss like possibly the bosses daughter, then by having her fall in love with an FBI spy could create a lot of turmoil. Having a spy be his daughter's love interest would be a strike to the bosses' heart for sure.

Vermouth calls Conan the “silver bullet” meaning Conan can touch her heart and bring about emotions in her in a possibly similar manner to how Akai can reach the bosses heart, presumably through Akemi, Akai could take down the boss.



How did Akai know Akemi was in the BO?

Another very important point, why did Akai try to date/befriend Akemi? How did Akai know Akemi was part of the BO? If Akai learned through FBI contacts that Akemi was part of the BO, how did the FBI find out. It's possible Akai found out about the Miyanos through Mary. There has been a lot of hints that Mary is somehow related to the Miyano family, with physical similarities between Mary and Ai being pointed out by Conan in Chapter 941, page 16.

The fact that Ai's BO radar has gone off many times for Akai/Subaru and has gone off for Sera in chapter 819, page 7, is just further proof that the boss is could be related to Akai, Sera, and possibly Mary. And assuming Shiho is related to Mary as well, then the BOss should also be related to Shiho as well.



How are the BOss and Shiho connected? Does the BOss really want Shiho killed?:

There are a few instances in DC which lead me to believe there is someone in the BO, possibly the boss, who has been protecting Shiho from other BO members. First, who was the cameraman who took Pisco's picture? Think about it, he took Pisco's picture shooting a gun in the dark. Somehow he knew where Pisco would be at the moment he was shooting a gun in total darkness. And somehow the cameraman was able to release the picture quick enough for Gin to kill Pisco. Gin said specifically that person gave the order for Gin to kill Pisco. Was this cameraman there to trap Pisco, protect Sherry, or was it just bad luck that Pisco who worked for the BO at least 20 years happened to get his identity reveal by a random cameraman. At this point I think it's a valid question.

In Confrontation with the Black Organization, Akai supposedly took all of Calvados' weapons and broke his legs, yet somehow Calvados still gets shot in the head and presumably commits suicide. I doubt Akai would fail to find the weapon Calvados brought, but it's possible another member, possibly the BOss was there to monitor the situation and have Calvados commit suicide so he wouldn't get caught. Even if Calvados had a concealed weapon proof the BOss could have been watching is the text Vermouth got where the BOss said she was given too much freedom and to “come to my side.” The implication of message is the BOss somehow he already knew she failed her mission to either retrieve or kill Sherry and that Vermouth should stop going after Sherry. For whatever reason, the first two texts from the boss in DC seemed to protect Shiho, whether it's a coincidence or not is unclear.

To my knowledge, the BOss never tells other members to explicitly kill Shiho. And when Shiho refused to work for the BO anymore and was handcuffed, there isn't concrete evidence the BOss gave an order to kill her it (though it was assumed), otherwise she would likely have been already killed. However, I do believe the #1 rule of the BO is seemingly to keep the identity of the BO secret, so even close relatives of the BOss are not necessarily safe if the organization is being threatened.

The boss gave orders for Gin to kill Pisco (helps Ai and the good guys). Vermouth tries to secretly kill Ai, boss tells her Vermouth he's given her too much freedom and to come by his side (helps Ai and the good guys). In Movie 20, the boss stops Gin from killing Kir and Bourbon (helps the good guys, even if it's non canon). Assuming Akemi is a daughter or granddaughter of the boss, it would makes sense for the boss want Akai dead as a top priority because Akai is the main reason Akemi is dead, which would explain why the boss would really want Akai dead.

If the boss is some kind of genius, he probably wouldn't have sent orders which helped to prevent Shiho from being killed on at least 2 separate occasions unless he didn't actually want her killed. It seems like Vermouth and Gin are the two people who want Sherry dead the most, the boss may not want her dead at all. The 3 closest attempts to killing Sherry by the BO in DC were 2 times by Vermouth (ch434 and ch824) and once by Gin (ch242), and to we don't know if the boss ordered these attempts on Sherry's life or if Gin and Vermouth were acting independent of the boss.



The Elena Miyano Tapes:

There are a lot of questions regarding the tapes Ai got from her father's old house. First question is why were parts of the tape blank? I have two theories on this, either someone like Akemi or Atsushi removed parts which Shiho shouldn't hear (which is possible) or the actual tape was modified to give a secret message which would not be found out even if the BO found the tapes. If Elena connected a thin film to the hidden parts in the cassette, then parts of the cassette would appear blank.

The bigger question in my opinion regarding the tapes themselves is why did Akemi wait 18-20 years to try to give her sisters the tapes? Assuming Shiho was in Japan since she was 13, Akemi would have 5 years to give her the tapes unless Akemi didn't actually have the tapes for years or possibly the tape were made more recently than 20 years ago. This leads me to question further if Elena Miyano and Atsushi Miyano are actually dead or if somehow they reverse aged.



Identity of the BOss:

For the reasons listed and more, I do think the boss is somehow related to Shiho and the Miyanos in some way and likely the Sera family as well. It is kind of odd that 2 of the 3 known characters to reverse age (assuming Mary did) in DC look so similar in Mary and Haibara. I would guess they're each related to the boss in some way. Whether it's Shiho's mother, father, unknown sibling, grandparent, or whatever, I think there is a ton evidence hinting the boss is likely related to the Miyano family in some way. If Aptx4869 was started 50 years ago, technically Ai's grandparent or great grandparent could technically be the BOss. Of course, if the boss did reverse age, he/she could take on almost any identity even if they were once Atsushi or Elena Miyano. DC is all about people having characters with multiple identities, almost every major character has been someone else at some point.



Also.... Just based on story structure as well. It seems like the main plot of DC moves through the Miyano's and Akai's family, so it's hard for me to think the BOss is not related to Ai and for the BOss to make sense.

there are many errors and misinformed stuff here, and frankly, I'm too lazy to go through and correct u on all of them. So instead, I'll just point out the interesting things and one of the things that I agree on:

- Episode One special indicated that Sherry called Akemi the moment she saw the shrinking result. Like you said, that conversation scene about Conan and Shinichi does imply that she was probably suggesting that Conan might be Shinichi, since the first human test subject disappeared rather than being found dead, and Sherry likely told Akemi about that.

- the notion that Calvados was killed, rather than to have committed suicide, is very interesting, if you take into account that Akai confiscated him. It could be a foreshadowing to that someone had followed Akai to the port and finished the job after Akai left Calvados immobilised. Don't see any purpose to this being the case at the moment, but maybe it's something that Gosho plans on connecting to Rum.
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
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Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » January 3rd, 2017, 7:04 am

I'd like to address some of your points

EpocConan wrote:There are a few instances in DC which lead me to believe there is someone in the BO, possibly the boss, who has been protecting Shiho from other BO members. First, who was the cameraman who took Pisco's picture? Think about it, he took Pisco's picture shooting a gun in the dark. Somehow he knew where Pisco would be at the moment he was shooting a gun in total darkness. And somehow the cameraman was able to release the picture quick enough for Gin to kill Pisco. Gin said specifically that person gave the order for Gin to kill Pisco. Was this cameraman there to trap Pisco, protect Sherry, or was it just bad luck that Pisco who worked for the BO at least 20 years happened to get his identity reveal by a random cameraman. At this point I think it's a valid question.


The cameraman had been there from the beginning of the party and kept on taking photos during the presentation (he took a photo of two of the guests hugging and revealing they had a romantic relationship: all indicates that Pisco's photo was taken by coincidence and the cameraman rushed to have the photos revealed and posted in the newspaper's website: maybe the Boss was in the lookout to make sure the operation proceeded smoothly and when he/she saw that then they ordered Gin to get rid of Pisco because the police would be after him.

EpocConan wrote:In Confrontation with the Black Organization, Akai supposedly took all of Calvados' weapons and broke his legs, yet somehow Calvados still gets shot in the head and presumably commits suicide. I doubt Akai would fail to find the weapon Calvados brought, but it's possible another member, possibly the BOss was there to monitor the situation and have Calvados commit suicide so he wouldn't get caught. Even if Calvados had a concealed weapon proof the BOss could have been watching is the text Vermouth got where the BOss said she was given too much freedom and to “come to my side.” The implication of message is the BOss somehow he already knew she failed her mission to either retrieve or kill Sherry and that Vermouth should stop going after Sherry. For whatever reason, the first two texts from the boss in DC seemed to protect Shiho, whether it's a coincidence or not is unclear.


Someone else had addressed this before: Akai was in a rush since he couldn't know that Vermouth wouldn't eventually shoot Ran or Haibara and knew Jodie wouldn't hold on forever: he picked what the found and got to the scene as fast as he could: him overlooking a gun isn't strange. And maybe Calvados held it hidden inside of his shirt or something like that. When he realized he had no way to escape he commited suicide like Kusuda Rikumichi (the BO spy that had infiltrated the hospital Kir was interned at).

EpocConan wrote:The boss gave orders for Gin to kill Pisco (helps Ai and the good guys). Vermouth tries to secretly kill Ai, boss tells her Vermouth he's given her too much freedom and to come by his side (helps Ai and the good guys).

In Movie 20, the boss stops Gin from killing Kir and Bourbon (helps the good guys, even if it's non canon). Assuming Akemi is a daughter or granddaughter of the boss, it would makes sense for the boss want Akai dead as a top priority because Akai is the main reason Akemi is dead, which would explain why the boss would really want Akai dead.


You got that part of Movie 20 wrong. The one who ordered Gin not to kill Bourbon and Kir was Rum, not the boss. He wanted Gin and the others to retrieve Curaçao and figure out if she was the sender of the email. She lied saying she was and Vermouth believed her so, for the time being, Rum seemed to decide to let them live since Curaçao had denied that they were NOCs despite that she later tried to escape the BO.

In the ending credits Vermouth picks Kir up and talks over the phone with Rum and that is what he seemed to tell Vermouth and Kir.

You do make a good point pointing out how Akai or the FBI figured out that Akemi was a member of the BO. But we don't know how other agencies (the CIA, for example got to figure out their existance.

So we can only speculate since Gosho hasn't given us any clues regarding the "how".

We're told by Vermouth that the boss is the type that "would take a stone bridge apart just to make sure it's solid" and that they are very prudent.

We don't know what Vermouth reported to the boss after she ran away with Conan in tow or if the message came in because Vodka reported that Vermouth's name was brought up in the Halloween party by the werewolf: that might've been what he/she meant by "seems like I've given you too much freedom".

Another good point is why the BO would have bothered to raise two those: in Haibara's case, it's obvious that she had the role to continue or recreate her parents' research but as for Akemi we don't know the why.

We can only hope all of this will be addressed in some form or another one day.
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Absenta » January 3rd, 2017, 3:14 pm

EpocConan wrote:I want to start off with some background. I've read and watched all manga/anime/movies related to DC, huge fan of the series for 10+ years. I do think I could help shine some light on who the boss may be. This is going to be long, sorry in advance.

First off, people mention how Aoyoma only expected DC to last a few months or maybe 50-100 chapters total, but what does actually mean with regards to the identity of the BO boss? Honestly, not that much if we consider that Aoyoma might have given a huge hint about the boss by issue 30, but never gave the hint at all when the series took off. Some minor details might change, like I think Yoko Okino could have been Vermouth or Jodie originally (though I doubt she's in the BO or FBI now), but I do believe Aoyoma knew who the boss would be probably within the first few chapters and has not changed it since.


The Miyano Family:

I think there are so many mysteries behind the Miyano family, that the key to figuring out the boss probably lies there. It's important to point out that in ch13 was the first time a Miyano was written into the story and Ai was mentioned by ch16 but didn't appear till ch176 because the series was doing so well, but in terms of developing the main plot line chapters 17-175 are mostly filler. I would guess as soon as the Miyano family was developed, all the BO story lines up until the start of the Kir arc were already devised (about issues 450). My guess is based on Eisuke and Kir being kind of irrelevant characters by issue 980+, therefore I doubt they were part of the original design of the series. I sure hope Eisuke isn't the boss, that would be horrible.

I do think Aoyoma likely thought up almost every BO arch up to ch434 probably within the first few issues of the series. While DC is my favorite anime/manga by a mile, it's at least 90% filler. If Aoyoma could have really completed DC in 3 months or a year, then that mean DC is basically 20 years of filler. And I do believe every BO story from the first 500 chapters or so could have been condensed down to 50, but the filler is fun even if it doesn't advance the plot. Either way, I believe understanding who the boss might be and their motives fall those first 434 chapters.

Also, because the whole story of the relationship between Akai, Akemi, and Shiho has so many question marks, I think many of those questions can help to understand who the boss might be.



What does the boss know about Aptx4869/Silver Bullet?:

First off, if Vermouth doesn't age, then clearly the boss knows that Aptx4869 or Silver Bullet have the ability to reverse aging, is the boss that stupid that he didn't realize Vermouth doesn't age? If we assume the boss knows the drug Shiho was working on can reverse a person's age like how his/her “favorite” Vermouth does not age and knowing Shiho was able to escape her handcuffs when she was detained by the BO, then I'd be very surprised if the boss doesn't know Haibara shrunk. Pisco, Vermouth, and Curacao all knew Ai shrunk, is the boss dumber than they are? Even, Pisco vaguely knew about the Miyano's work and knew Ai was a shrunken Shiho based on the Miyano's work, why would Pisco know but the main boss wouldn't?

Assuming the boss knew what Shiho was researching could reverse or stop aging like Vermouth and Pisco deduced Ai was Shiho based on knowing the Miyano's. I believe it's likely the boss should have been able to deduce Ai escaped her handcuffs by shrinking since her handcuffs were not broken.



Akai and Akemi:

Onto the bigger point, Akai was about 23-25 when he met/dated Akemi, Akemi was probably about 19-20, and Haibara would be about 13 at the time assuming Haibara was actually 18. According to James Black, Akai used Akemi to use a 13 year old Shiho to get close to the organization somehow. The question then is, how would a 13 year old girl who was supposedly studying in America till she was 13 have any sort of sway to help Akai to gain rank in the organization?

Another interesting question is why the organization looked after both Akemi and Shiho basically their entire lives. Assuming Shiho is a super genius is one thing, but what about Akemi? Assuming their parents died when Akemi was around age 5 or 6 and Shiho was 1 or so, why wouldn't the organization either kill Akemi or remove her from the organization somehow and just focus on grooming Haibara assuming they could somehow determine she was a genius by age 1? Why would the BO keep Akemi alive and watch over her?

Consider this too, Akemi dated a spy in Akai for a few years but Akemi was supposedly very low rank, you'd think the boss would kill Akemi right away for dating a spy, but the boss doesn't. Akemi dated Akai 5 years prior to the current timeline, meaning Haibara likely wasn't the BO head scientist by age 13 or so there would be no reason not to kill Akemi unless she was close to the boss. The BO kill people all the time and blow up buildings w/o a second thought, but somehow letting an FBI spy in like Akai would be a good reason to kill Akemi if not both Akemi and Shiho, but neither were killed, which seems odd. You could argue that Shiho was too valuable to the organization at the time, but she was only 13 and presumably had very little contact with her sister since Shiho studied in America till she was 13.

Akai somehow raised his rank in the organization but only dated a low level person, Shiho was likely 13 or possibly in America when Akai and Akemi started dating. Based on this and more to follow, I think it's likely that both Akemi and Shiho are actually much closer to the boss than Aoyoma wants us to believe.



Questions about Akemi:

It's important to point out that Gin wasn't necessarily supposed to kill Akemi. Even though Akemi brought Akai into the organization and tried to get her and her sister out of the organization. Gin did not shoot Akemi until she pulled out a gun and tried to kill him. There is little evidence that the boss gave the order for Gin to kill Akemi, in fact I got sense the BO following her throughout her life even after her parents supposedly died was meant to protect her more than anything, not to harm her. James Black says in ch599 page 10 that both Akemi and Shiho would be killed if Akemi failed the $1 billion Yen robbery, but this is contradicted by both Gin who told Akemi that Shiho was still needed and Ai also said she was told to continue working even after her sister died. For James Black to have this information likely meant Akemi was somehow in touch with the FBI or Akai which could be reason for Gin to kill Akemi even if the boss didn't give the order.

Think about it, once the Miyano parents died you would think it would be way easier for the BO to just kill Akemi than devote manpower to monitoring her for 20+ years. To my knowledge, there was no other situation in the BO, where children are watched throughout their lives like in the case of Akemi and Shiho.

It's also possible that Akemi could have left the BO without her sister, but it was Akemi potentially turning Shiho against the BO or trying to have Shiho leave it as to why Gin killed her even if the boss may not have ordered it.

Some interesting points about Akemi, Akemi seemed to be very heavily underestimated by both the BO. BO assumed she couldn't rob bank but she did and she was able to trick Gin with the fake key. She also figured out Akai was part of the FBI before he tells her.

In chapter 180, page 15, there is a flashback of Akemi talking about Edogawa Conan in the context of Kudo Shinichi. Akemi mentions she already told Shiho about Conan in the past. Considering she mentions Conan again in the context of Kudo Shinichi means it is possible Akemi already knew at this point that the drug is capable of reversing the aging process. When Conan tells Akemi he is really Kudo Shinichi while she is dying, she doesn't seem too surprised in either the manga or the anime. In that conversation with Shiho in chapter 180 pg 15, Akemi tells Ai to “stop making that drug” which is odd because you wouldn't think Akemi should know about what Aptx4869 can do, we don't really know what Akemi actually knew about Aptx4869 up to this point.

Maybe Akemi knew Mary shrunk already through Akai and knew about Aptx4869 that way. Or it may be possible Elena and Akemi are same person, there are some plot holes but it is possible. Either way, for Akemi to bring up Conan to her sister on at least two occasions and to bring up Conan in the context of Kudo Shinichi leads me to believe Akemi more about Aptx4869 than most casual readers would expect. Maybe Elena left tapes for Akemi explaining Silver Bullet or Akemi listened to Shiho's tapes or it might be possible Akemi somehow became connected with the FBI through Akai.



Why is Akai the Silver Bullet?:

When we add in Akai being a silver bullet to the mix, the story becomes more interesting. What makes Akai so special that he'd be a silver bullet? The BO had other spies some who had code names, but what made Akai that silver bullet which could reach the heart? If Akemi was actually someone very important to the boss like possibly the bosses daughter, then by having her fall in love with an FBI spy could create a lot of turmoil. Having a spy be his daughter's love interest would be a strike to the bosses' heart for sure.

Vermouth calls Conan the “silver bullet” meaning Conan can touch her heart and bring about emotions in her in a possibly similar manner to how Akai can reach the bosses heart, presumably through Akemi, Akai could take down the boss.



How did Akai know Akemi was in the BO?

Another very important point, why did Akai try to date/befriend Akemi? How did Akai know Akemi was part of the BO? If Akai learned through FBI contacts that Akemi was part of the BO, how did the FBI find out. It's possible Akai found out about the Miyanos through Mary. There has been a lot of hints that Mary is somehow related to the Miyano family, with physical similarities between Mary and Ai being pointed out by Conan in Chapter 941, page 16.

The fact that Ai's BO radar has gone off many times for Akai/Subaru and has gone off for Sera in chapter 819, page 7, is just further proof that the boss is could be related to Akai, Sera, and possibly Mary. And assuming Shiho is related to Mary as well, then the BOss should also be related to Shiho as well.



How are the BOss and Shiho connected? Does the BOss really want Shiho killed?:

There are a few instances in DC which lead me to believe there is someone in the BO, possibly the boss, who has been protecting Shiho from other BO members. First, who was the cameraman who took Pisco's picture? Think about it, he took Pisco's picture shooting a gun in the dark. Somehow he knew where Pisco would be at the moment he was shooting a gun in total darkness. And somehow the cameraman was able to release the picture quick enough for Gin to kill Pisco. Gin said specifically that person gave the order for Gin to kill Pisco. Was this cameraman there to trap Pisco, protect Sherry, or was it just bad luck that Pisco who worked for the BO at least 20 years happened to get his identity reveal by a random cameraman. At this point I think it's a valid question.

In Confrontation with the Black Organization, Akai supposedly took all of Calvados' weapons and broke his legs, yet somehow Calvados still gets shot in the head and presumably commits suicide. I doubt Akai would fail to find the weapon Calvados brought, but it's possible another member, possibly the BOss was there to monitor the situation and have Calvados commit suicide so he wouldn't get caught. Even if Calvados had a concealed weapon proof the BOss could have been watching is the text Vermouth got where the BOss said she was given too much freedom and to “come to my side.” The implication of message is the BOss somehow he already knew she failed her mission to either retrieve or kill Sherry and that Vermouth should stop going after Sherry. For whatever reason, the first two texts from the boss in DC seemed to protect Shiho, whether it's a coincidence or not is unclear.

To my knowledge, the BOss never tells other members to explicitly kill Shiho. And when Shiho refused to work for the BO anymore and was handcuffed, there isn't concrete evidence the BOss gave an order to kill her it (though it was assumed), otherwise she would likely have been already killed. However, I do believe the #1 rule of the BO is seemingly to keep the identity of the BO secret, so even close relatives of the BOss are not necessarily safe if the organization is being threatened.

The boss gave orders for Gin to kill Pisco (helps Ai and the good guys). Vermouth tries to secretly kill Ai, boss tells her Vermouth he's given her too much freedom and to come by his side (helps Ai and the good guys). In Movie 20, the boss stops Gin from killing Kir and Bourbon (helps the good guys, even if it's non canon). Assuming Akemi is a daughter or granddaughter of the boss, it would makes sense for the boss want Akai dead as a top priority because Akai is the main reason Akemi is dead, which would explain why the boss would really want Akai dead.

If the boss is some kind of genius, he probably wouldn't have sent orders which helped to prevent Shiho from being killed on at least 2 separate occasions unless he didn't actually want her killed. It seems like Vermouth and Gin are the two people who want Sherry dead the most, the boss may not want her dead at all. The 3 closest attempts to killing Sherry by the BO in DC were 2 times by Vermouth (ch434 and ch824) and once by Gin (ch242), and to we don't know if the boss ordered these attempts on Sherry's life or if Gin and Vermouth were acting independent of the boss.



The Elena Miyano Tapes:

There are a lot of questions regarding the tapes Ai got from her father's old house. First question is why were parts of the tape blank? I have two theories on this, either someone like Akemi or Atsushi removed parts which Shiho shouldn't hear (which is possible) or the actual tape was modified to give a secret message which would not be found out even if the BO found the tapes. If Elena connected a thin film to the hidden parts in the cassette, then parts of the cassette would appear blank.

The bigger question in my opinion regarding the tapes themselves is why did Akemi wait 18-20 years to try to give her sisters the tapes? Assuming Shiho was in Japan since she was 13, Akemi would have 5 years to give her the tapes unless Akemi didn't actually have the tapes for years or possibly the tape were made more recently than 20 years ago. This leads me to question further if Elena Miyano and Atsushi Miyano are actually dead or if somehow they reverse aged.



Identity of the BOss:

For the reasons listed and more, I do think the boss is somehow related to Shiho and the Miyanos in some way and likely the Sera family as well. It is kind of odd that 2 of the 3 known characters to reverse age (assuming Mary did) in DC look so similar in Mary and Haibara. I would guess they're each related to the boss in some way. Whether it's Shiho's mother, father, unknown sibling, grandparent, or whatever, I think there is a ton evidence hinting the boss is likely related to the Miyano family in some way. If Aptx4869 was started 50 years ago, technically Ai's grandparent or great grandparent could technically be the BOss. Of course, if the boss did reverse age, he/she could take on almost any identity even if they were once Atsushi or Elena Miyano. DC is all about people having characters with multiple identities, almost every major character has been someone else at some point.



Also.... Just based on story structure as well. It seems like the main plot of DC moves through the Miyano's and Akai's family, so it's hard for me to think the BOss is not related to Ai and for the BOss to make sense.



I´m bringing up again the Vermouth=Elena theory, it has some holes but I think that makes sense to me rather than not, it´s not very developed but those are just my thoughts...


- Vermouth is a really important character, her link to the boss it´s truly a mistery because she is likely the one that shouldn´t have much related to him. She is a famous international actress, american and doesn´t seems to have a huge interest in crime, we could say she is like a Hitchcook-girl-spy, with a devil and a cute side, that trick us. Yes, we know, Vermouth is a hot and cool character, but over that she is very intelligent and quite early from her first apparition whe discovered in her intense feelings towards Ran and Shinichi, philosophical dilemmas and stuff. Gosho tries to show us that Vermouth is a really complex character, and paradoxical. He doesn´t take that time with Gin or other baddies, Vermouth is special.

- They never show the full portrait of Elena, always with glasses, only the mouth, some of the face...Even other mysterious characters like Papa Akai have been shown. Elena is a nuclear character and never has been shown, along with Atsushi (less mentioned)

- Before Mary´s apparition Elena and Vermouth are the two really known an important characters in the series that are occidental.
Futhermore, they first apparition (Elena just figured) is in the same case. The Haido hotel case (a brief note about Pisco. I think the BO was planning to get rid of him, not necessarily that night but Vermouth went to oversee him as she said in the EPISODE ONE case). We don´t know if the boss was in the party , and Vermouth couldn´t send an sms to the boss during the interrogation.
As it was said in the original theory, Vermouth always appeared after Haibara talked about her mother.


- Vermouth´s secret: Over the fact she doesn´t age, and she is linked more deeply to the boss, I think her secret is that she is Elena Miyano, and Bourbon knows that because he met her when he was little and in some way something from Vermouth must have reminded him, doing futrther research he could find out. Still, Vermouth and Bourbon have a nice relationship, they work really well together, and allthough Vermouth willed to kill him I think they are accomplices in some way inside the BO, each one with different objetives.
Actually, all the Sharon/Chris stuff maybe is just covering the fact she is Elena. The series never stated that Sharon Vineyard was the true name of Vermouth, and Vineyard is just a coded-alcohol alias after all.

- Why did Vermouth take classes with Toichi Kuroba¿? I think it was because she had the need to disguise herself from the moment that the Miyanos disappearead.

- She really hates Shiho, maybe because she is carryng on the drug proyect, the proyect that make her a monster that can´t age an probably turn out mad her own husband (likely the boss). I think Vermouth could have a mental illness because of the drug, disorder personality problems and all the secondary effects that a drug can harm. Haibara has a terrible fear towards BO members, but I remember she had a horrible one towards Vermouth. I think Haibara knows that Elena is Vermouth, and Elena died somehow, now it only remains her devil side.

- Vermouth , along the boss was probably the first person in triying the drug. I mean, Vermouth , being an important piece inside the BO would never be a simple guinea pigs, she has to be envolved so much in the project, because othervise she wouldn´t be that important for the boss and would taked the drug. Vermouth also is really smart and has a scientific mind.

- ¿What about the Miyano accident? Did Elena Miyano take the drug intenting suicide¿? Maybe Atsushi Miyano was so obsessed that he became mad with the project and Elena didn´t want to continue it, so she took the drug and didn´t die . Making herself an important piece for the boss, maybe Vermouth is Elena Miyano and she is just planning how to take down the BO through Conan intending she hates her own daughter.
She believes the only one that can take down the BO is Shinichi, not FBI or other NOCS, nothing...that´s why se doesn´t really care about Kir or Bourbon identities.

- I believe the Itakura software was a side-plan of Vermouth to destroy internally all the BO research.

- All this would mean that Mary and Vermouth and sister, makes sense because they resemble a bit, could be interesting in the future.


Dunno, so many questions but I think they can be the same person, like a fallen angel that plans to take down the BO
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Re: Anokata theory: The boss may be...

Postby Spimer » January 3rd, 2017, 3:52 pm

We were told by Yukiko that she and Vermouth took classes from Kuroba Touichi as part of preparing their roles in a spy movie they were going to act in and they needed knowledge and teaching about disguising which would be employed in the movie.

As for the rest of your theory... Well, we can't deny the possibility, it exists. It's sketchy but so is everything we know about Vermouth to begin with.

We know that she'd known Itakura in person so it makes sense she'd know about his program which he'd begun to work on years ago before stopping because of his degenerating sight. Given that Vodka was placed in charge of emailing with Itakura, there were others in the BO who knew about the program (Gin included) but it's unknown how much they knew about the program itself.
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