Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.

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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » September 3rd, 2009, 11:22 pm

Obscure wrote:Generic
Arrack


Those two aren't in the manga or the anime. Where are they from?
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Kor » September 4th, 2009, 1:08 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Obscure wrote:Generic
Arrack


Those two aren't in the manga or the anime. Where are they from?


Special files that were created by Gosho's assistences (I think)
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby conankun92 » September 4th, 2009, 3:45 am

Conan324 wrote:
Akemi/Sherry arc - FEMALE STAMP.
Vermouth arc - FEMALE STAMP
Kir arc - FEMALE STAMP.


just what the heck are the males doing?? other than picturing sherry naked?  :P

on a second thought....maybe gosho is the pervert....


OMG.  ;D

Anyway, I still think the female members are more emphasized in many ways.

Bourbon being a female would be quite a theory. Maybe Bourbon is Sonoko!!!  :o

Nah. That would be way off.  ::)
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » September 4th, 2009, 10:20 pm

Kor wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Obscure wrote:Generic
Arrack


Those two aren't in the manga or the anime. Where are they from?


Special files that were created by Gosho's assistences (I think)

Fanfictions, even if they are by Gosho's assistants, don't count. :P

Conan324 wrote:i'm really looking forward for a male smart agent that's smarter than gin.

Me too. Gin is an interesting variation on the typical DC detective because he has excellent "instincts". The perfect example is the locker scene in the dark footprint arc. Gin has a few weak points though. One is his inability to remember faces. Another is a slight lack of imagination. Why does the person who planted the software CD in the locker have to be an adult? After all, the other agents watching the place did say a kid entered the station.
I'm kind of hoping Bourbon has a bit more imagination, somewhat like Vermouth, who is excellent in the imagination department, but without her traitorous intentions.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on September 4th, 2009, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Kor » September 5th, 2009, 1:33 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Kor wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Obscure wrote:Generic
Arrack


Those two aren't in the manga or the anime. Where are they from?


Special files that were created by Gosho's assistences (I think)

Fanfictions, even if they are by Gosho's assistants, don't count. :P




Never said they were part of the real thing.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Beastly » December 4th, 2009, 7:36 am

Conan324 wrote:if she was bourbon, i'll force myself into thinking that the boss is nothing but a pervert, just look how many BO womens we have already!


It's really easy that:
Spoiler:
Kogoro is the boss, And that high school detective is Bourbon Okiya is Akemi in disguise. He want to protect her sister. Dats some easy clues left by Gosho.  ;D
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Kite » December 6th, 2009, 4:23 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Why does the person who planted the software CD in the locker have to be an adult? After all, the other agents watching the place did say a kid entered the station.

Don't forget we're not seeing the story from Gin's viewpoint, but from Conan's. For all we know, Gin might be acting along, having realized the kid was suspicious back then. Maybe that's why he searched through the lockers, but stopped himself at the very last and most probable one for a small kid to crawl into, and thought of using the kid as bait to lure in the "bigger fish" (i.e leaving the kid to hang around a bit, until the big fish finally shows). Gin doesn't know Shinichi actually shrinked, so he wouldn't be able to fathom it was his big fish who hid himself there.

And Conan is pretty suspicious after all he's already done (kicking the ball at the window when the BO was aiming for Kogoro was a VERY unhealthy situation) too, no doubt the BO has got some spies within the FBI, so they could've heard of a kid wandering along throwing awfully good ideas around. Korn was hidden among the people in the last BO case as well, and he could've picked up some information about a kid 'ushering' everyone back inside (with a list, but that's easily seen through). A kid, a kid, a kid and yet again, a kid. Mix that with the fact all those situations are happening at places very close to each other, and you've got either hell for Conan within a few chapters, or Gin abiding his time and waiting fruitlessly for the bigger fish to come, before realizing there IS no bigger fish ...

Now that I think about it, I'm actually pretty surprised Conan is still wandering about so healthily and safely out there ...
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Misztina » December 12th, 2009, 5:15 am

I'm sure, or at least hope taht Bourbon is not only out tehre to look for Sherry but to check on Conan or Kogoro.
We still cannot be sure whether Gin thinks that Kogoro is the mastermind behind the scene and Conan is his accomplice (? Not sure the correct way of writting) or he is only used by Conan and his possible partner.
Secretly I always hope that Kogoro does have something to do with the BO, like if you remember the 10-years-ago case with chibi-Ran and chibi-Shinichi. You could see how Eri annd kogoro got along well, I just can't believe they would separate for silly little reasons. in this casee ran said something like: "Dad always says the criminal is the black one". Kogoro's stupid logic might have been spot on once or he got a BO member in to trouble and somehow he got into that mess and Eri was a lawyer at that time so they might have been against eachother in a case. I can see an emerging quarell from this situation that would end up with 10 years separation with as little conversation as possible.

This is why I think Bourbon is also checking on Kogoro, and Gin also thinks (File 504?) that Kogoro has a connection to Sherry, or to that person that hides Sherry.

EDIT: Sorry for the typos, I have to write fast. ^^"
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » January 26th, 2010, 4:16 am

Bumping this thread because I felt like it.
All the information I can think of about Bourbon/Scar Akai. Please post with more if you can think of any.

•He may be a man if Kir's gender specific word choice of "kare" is anything to go by (Source is this post.) (edit per Abs.'s thought that Kir may have not known Bourbon's gender and may be simply using the masculine form of referral.) Also, the man scar Akai handed a cellphone back to heard scar Shuu's voice and assumed he was a man. If Bourbon can't disguise his voice well, then that would increase the likelihood he is a man. Also Organization codenames for men so far have all been hard liquors while wine or wine-based cocktails have been given to women.
•He has a slim to average build and is about the same height as Akai, otherwise disguising as Akai would be difficult.
•He is right handed.
•He cannot imitate Akai's voice which probably extrapolates out to voices in general.
•He may be good at disguise like Vermouth, but perhaps it is more likely that Vermouth made the scar Akai mask for him as part of his plan to evaluate whether Akai is dead or not..

•He is a "new" agent which may mean that he just started at the org, received a codename recently, or had been activated after "sleeping" for a period of time. Most likely he has been working with the org for a while since Gin and Vodka wouldn't know so much about a newly arrived agent.
•Kir was most likely lied to when she was told Bourbon's official mission is locating Sherry. Based on the exchange between Vermouth and Gin in V67-8.11, Bourbon's true mission is probably to test the FBI to see if Akai is alive.
•He is stalking the FBI and appearing before them as Akai, probably to judge from their reactions whether the real Akai is still alive. Gin seems to think this is insubordinate, "Hmph... Always doing as he pleases... that bastard irritates me. " Gin's line also implies that Bourbon doing things on his own is a common occurrence.
•Gin doesn't care for Bourbon because of Bourbon's tendency to do his own thing and be secretive. Vermouth may get along with Bourbon if she made his scar Akai mask to help him with his plan.
•Gin doesn't seem to communicate with Bourbon much and doesn't seem to like doing it either.

•He has Mouri Kogoro's cell phone number. Kogoro does sometimes use it for business, so it is possible Bourbon looked it up in a phone book or online (does Kogoro even have a web page?) but another, perhaps more likely source is Kir's cell phone which Kogoro texted to send her his routing number after the ding dong dash case. The fact that he remembered/kept the information with him may indicate he intends to look into the Mouri Detective Agency.
•He rescued Conan at the Teito bank heist for some reason. It's value for tricking Jodie is minimal as she was unconscious at the time, and Bourbon could have suspected this since he figured out what the robbers were up to and knew Jodie had left for the bathroom and hadn't returned. Whether he did it to trick Jodie, be able to leave faster, on a whim, has plans for Conan, or some combination of explanations thereof is unknown. If he is investigating the FBI, he may know that Conan seems to be involved, but can't know too much because he would have investigated Conan first if he knew how brilliant Conan was.
•So far, both of his appearances have been in Beika city very close to one another. Teito Bank and the Beika dept. store are almost adjacent.
•He probably didn't buy the hat from the Beika dept store in disguise; however, it is possible he got it a while ago, or second-hand, or someone else bought it for him.
•He apparently received a call from someone after he finished staking out Camel. Perhaps it was related to Akai Shuuichi, i.e. himself, being seen in the building?

•Bourbon is skilled at detective work and information gathering. Gin's comment about "a detective like Sherlock Holmes" indicates his skills are high, and this is Gin's opinion which has to count for something. His deduction at the red shirts case wasn't as complete Okiya's and Conan's, but he may not have had access to the internet and therefore info on the snowy mountains case with his "borrowed" phone.
•He is independent and secretive to the point of where Gin has no idea idea what he is up to. Gin specifically compares him to Vermouth, so Bourbon may also be the type that doesn't inform even the boss of some of his actions.
•He despises Akai Shuuichi and thinks he is the only one who is capable of killing him. I assume this is referring to how resourceful Akai can be which makes him difficult to best. This kind of declaration likely also means Bourbon is arrogant, very angry and determined to kill him, or both.
•He doesn't think Akai is dead, thus he must suspect a trick was used and probably suspects Kir as well.
•He may be a decent pickpocket, because he somehow got ahold of a man's phone at the dept store and possibly also Kir's cellphone which would explain how he knew Kogoro's cellphone number. The explanation that the random man accidentally left his somewhere doesn't sit well with me.
•He is pretty gutsy. He texts Mouri Kogoro the solution of the crime and shoots a hostage taker rather than lurking in the back and waiting for the situation to dissipate.
•He is cautious as well. He uses a handkerchief to avoid leaving fingerprints while handing back the random man's cell phone which Bourbon used to text Kogoro.
•He has a "stare sensor". He felt Okiya's eyes on him at the dept store, though he didn't catch a glimpse of him. He also found Chianti right away when he left.

•He has terrible luck with unrelated criminal circumstances trapping him with the people he is investigating. Detectives in DC all seem to have the curse, even if they are the bad guys.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 4th, 2013, 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Abs. » January 26th, 2010, 4:43 am

Well I hope I get to this before you (inevitably) edit your post...

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He is a man if Kir's gender specific word choice of "kare" is anything to go by (Source is this post.)


Kir may just be assuming Bourbon is a man.  No evidence to suggest that Kir has met Bourbon or otherwise knows anything about Bourbon's gender.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He is a "new" agent which may mean that he just started at the org, received a codename recently, or had been activated after "sleeping" for a period of time. Most likely he has been working with the org for a while and received a codename recently since Gin and Vodka wouldn't know so much about a newly arrived agent.


I would bet that Bourbon had been with the Org. for a long time in order for Gin to know so much about him/her (either that or they were lovers/acquaintances beforehand, and Gin brought him/her into the Org.  ;D)

I'm going to pick option 0) Bourbon got the codename a long time ago, but had been "sleeping"

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He has Mouri Kogoro's cell phone number. Kogoro does sometimes use it for business, so it is possible Bourbon looked it up online (does Kogoro even have a web page?) but another, perhaps more likely source is Kir's cell phone which Kogoro texted to send her his routing number after the ding dong dash case. The fact that he remembered/kept the information with him may indicate he intends to look into the Mouri Detective Agency.


Or, since Kogorou can't get any business without people knowing what number to call...  ::)

Though the bolded part is a good point.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He apparently received a call from someone after he finished staking out Camel. Perhaps it was related to Akai Shuuichi, i.e. himself, being seen in the building?


Sorry, can't seem to find the part you are referencing here.  Link/page # please?

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He may be a decent pickpocket, because he somehow got ahold of a man's phone at the dept store and possibly also Kir's cellphone which would explain how he knew Kogoro's cellphone number. The explanation that the random man accidentally left his somewhere doesn't sit well with me.


LMAO yeah definitely a lie.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby mangaluva » January 26th, 2010, 9:37 am

Random theory: Bourbon had a thing for Akemi. Hear me out. This could factor towards what seems to be a personal hatred of Akai, could have something to do with why he and Gin are not pals, and may be why he was "sleeping"; he might have been temporarily sent off to cool it after Akemi died, in case he got any funny ideas about her death being injust. I feel like there are other things, but I wanted to get the random idea out there. Discuss and shred as necessary.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » January 26th, 2010, 11:39 am

Abs. wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:He is a man if Kir's gender specific word choice of "kare" is anything to go by (Source is this post.)


Kir may just be assuming Bourbon is a man.  No evidence to suggest that Kir has met Bourbon or otherwise knows anything about Bourbon's gender.

True, I thought there was an ungendered word she could have used instead if she didn't know, similar to "anokata" but maybe a slice less formal? (anohito (あの人) perhaps?) You are better at Japanese than me. (understatement of the year)

Abs. wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He has Mouri Kogoro's cell phone number. Kogoro does sometimes use it for business, so it is possible Bourbon looked it up online (does Kogoro even have a web page?) but another, perhaps more likely source is Kir's cell phone which Kogoro texted to send her his routing number after the ding dong dash case. The fact that he remembered/kept the information with him may indicate he intends to look into the Mouri Detective Agency.


Or, since Kogorou can't get any business without people knowing what number to call... ::)

Though the bolded part is a good point.

Most people call through the landline at the office based on what I remember after flipping through a metric *** load of chapters, though I have seen some people call Kogoro on the cellphone.

Abs. wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He apparently received a call from someone after he finished staking out Camel. Perhaps it was related to Akai Shuuichi, i.e. himself, being seen in the building?


Sorry, can't seem to find the part you are referencing here. Link/page # please?

701 page 6. The fact that the guy said to answer, not make, a call made me think scar Akai's cell was ringing. nevermind. It was someone else's phone. That's what I get for posting at two in the morning when I can't sleep...
Spoiler:
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mangaluva wrote:Random theory: Bourbon had a thing for Akemi. Hear me out. This could factor towards what seems to be a personal hatred of Akai, could have something to do with why he and Gin are not pals, and may be why he was "sleeping"; he might have been temporarily sent off to cool it after Akemi died, in case he got any funny ideas about her death being injust. I feel like there are other things, but I wanted to get the random idea out there. Discuss and shred as necessary.

Nah, I can't shred it, since I've thought of this same possibility too. It's early though and we have little info, so just about anything is possible.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on May 4th, 2013, 3:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Abs. » January 26th, 2010, 3:15 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Abs. wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:•He is a man if Kir's gender specific word choice of "kare" is anything to go by (Source is this post.)

Kir may just be assuming Bourbon is a man.  No evidence to suggest that Kir has met Bourbon or otherwise knows anything about Bourbon's gender.

True, I thought there was an ungendered word she could have used instead if she didn't know, similar to "anokata" but maybe a slice less formal? (anohito (ã
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby Misztina » January 27th, 2010, 11:34 am

Why do you think that the "bastard, who irritates" Gin is Bourbon and not someone else?

Theory-time:
Let's assume that Scar Akai is not a member of BO, just someone who wants to lure out the BO. Since ScarAkai knew that he will be followed by the BO he warned Jodie in the department store to run away, because that place is dangerous. Note, that Okiya found out about Gin's and Kir presence much later.
Of course this can only work if we assume that Oiya is Akai & Bourbon at the same time, which is likely, but cannot be 100% confirmed.

Gin and co. were watching the department store & ScarAkai when Vermouth arrived with a plan qapprved by the boss. I think this plan was simply to let Scar Akai wander around, because he lures out the FBI and maybe someone else out as well. The Boss is careful, he does not want to kill off Scar Akai, he takes the risk, which can result in an advantageous way too.
And in the end Scar Akai was "saved" by a "mysterious person", who was in that building at that time. The BO can think of two thing:
1. It was the FBI, it was their plan to "kill off" Akai then use him as a bait for the BO =>which seems very unlikely if they take in account that Shuu's closests people thought he was dead. On the other hand the BO might know that Jodie && Camel were at the scene during teh bomb case.
2. There is someone else in the game too and what a coincidence that Mouri detective was there at that time and he lives in Beika which is close to the suspicious Haido city.
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Re: Bourbon's Identity: Who is Bourbon!?

Postby dcfan01 » January 27th, 2010, 6:18 pm

I've just watched ep. 563 and something called my attention:
Spoiler:
I thought that the way Haibara and Agasa got out from the bank is really weird.
There must be a reason that explains why Gosho had to take haibara out of the bank...

And then i remembered that Akai and Haibara haven't ever met face to face (at least after akemi's murder).
And there was a chapter where akai said that it was too early for her to meet him.
So i think that scar akai is akai and there is something in akai that only haibara knows, or at least, there is something in the meeting of those two that will lead to some important BO information.

As for okiya, i don't think he is someone in disguise; just think about the way he met conan... it was totally random.

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