Chekhov's theories about the plot

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Serinox
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Serinox » May 27th, 2017, 2:58 pm

alphajjc wrote:
Spimer wrote:Yes, you're correct. "Meijin" is the most prestigious title along with "Ryu-oh".

And "Osho" is the title that comes before Meijin.


I thought Osho was ranked above Meijin. My bad. But why would they have a rematch and he gets the lower title instead of the Meijin that Shukichi originally won from him in his first appearance? That is so backwards i'm confused.

They didn't have a "rematch" in that sense. Chikara managed to win the Osho tournament and therefore challenge the titleholder afterwards, which logically was Shukichi again, since he holds all the titles. If Shukichi wouldn't be holding the Osho title as well, Chikara would've played someone else for the Osho title.
reliq
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby reliq » May 28th, 2017, 3:37 pm

I tried to translate some shogi pieces with google and by knight the first kanji 桂 it reads as "katsura".
But I guess that Rumi didn't have 3 shogi pieces in her pocket.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 29th, 2017, 11:46 am

reliq wrote:I tried to translate some shogi pieces with google and by knight the first kanji 桂 it reads as "katsura".
But I guess that Rumi didn't have 3 shogi pieces in her pocket.


Or better, it can be a cut piece of the kanji of K, from the said Bishop piece, to complete the message.

You, my friend have done an excellent discovery.

Check, I want your take on Houye Kuroda, I think that the guy deserves more attention than he's getting.

Wakita and Rumi seems to have hogged the limelight for quite some time.
Last edited by Spimer on May 29th, 2017, 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Combined your posts, please try to avoid double posting
alphajjc
Posts: 89

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby alphajjc » May 29th, 2017, 2:00 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
reliq wrote:I tried to translate some shogi pieces with google and by knight the first kanji 桂 it reads as "katsura".
But I guess that Rumi didn't have 3 shogi pieces in her pocket.


Or better, it can be a cut piece of the kanji of K, from the said Bishop piece, to complete the message.

You, my friend have done an excellent discovery.

Check, I want your take on Houye Kuroda, I think that the guy deserves more attention than he's getting.

Wakita and Rumi seems to have hogged the limelight for quite some time.


I still expect Koruda to be Akai's father in disguise. I think the original story in the Kawanakajima Murder Case was Gosho using foreshadowing plot device and it will come out that he himself is using a disguise and it is that of Akai's father..

I don't have any reasoning why really but this is just my theory. Im curious to hear what Chek says herself about what role they will have
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 29th, 2017, 2:41 pm

alphajjc wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
reliq wrote:I tried to translate some shogi pieces with google and by knight the first kanji 桂 it reads as "katsura".
But I guess that Rumi didn't have 3 shogi pieces in her pocket.


Or better, it can be a cut piece of the kanji of K, from the said Bishop piece, to complete the message.

You, my friend have done an excellent discovery.

Check, I want your take on Houye Kuroda, I think that the guy deserves more attention than he's getting.

Wakita and Rumi seems to have hogged the limelight for quite some time.


I still expect Koruda to be Akai's father in disguise. I think the original story in the Kawanakajima Murder Case was Gosho using foreshadowing plot device and it will come out that he himself is using a disguise and it is that of Akai's father..

I don't have any reasoning why really but this is just my theory. Im curious to hear what Chek says herself about what role they will have



A part of me says that, he's the Akai senior and concurs with your foreshadowing theory, but another part of me says that he's an infiltrator in Bo, trying to take Rum down.

During the Burning tent case Haibara felt BO pressure, then we saw Rumi being in a triggered phase. But when Rumi was approaching the culprit with killing intent, Haibara didn't feel a thing.
Unlike the Ikkaku rock's fish case (When Ai felt pressure from Subaru during both the time.)

Haibara seems to be very accepting of Rumi which is quite revealing, and she was afraid of Kuroda but she thought that only his face scared her. Ayumi seemed to verify this, but haibara is a grown up woman and has seen more shit than Ayumi. So I think Haibara is correct to decide that he isn't Rum, but there's a chance that He's a BO member who has the impression that Rumi is Rum.
alphajjc
Posts: 89

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby alphajjc » May 29th, 2017, 4:24 pm

Spoiler:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
alphajjc wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
reliq wrote:I tried to translate some shogi pieces with google and by knight the first kanji 桂 it reads as "katsura".
But I guess that Rumi didn't have 3 shogi pieces in her pocket.


Or better, it can be a cut piece of the kanji of K, from the said Bishop piece, to complete the message.

You, my friend have done an excellent discovery.

Check, I want your take on Houye Kuroda, I think that the guy deserves more attention than he's getting.

Wakita and Rumi seems to have hogged the limelight for quite some time.


I still expect Koruda to be Akai's father in disguise. I think the original story in the Kawanakajima Murder Case was Gosho using foreshadowing plot device and it will come out that he himself is using a disguise and it is that of Akai's father..

I don't have any reasoning why really but this is just my theory. Im curious to hear what Chek says herself about what role they will have


A part of me says that, he's the Akai senior and concurs with your foreshadowing theory, but another part of me says that he's an infiltrator in Bo, trying to take Rum down.

During the Burning tent case Haibara felt BO pressure, then we saw Rumi being in a triggered phase. But when Rumi was approaching the culprit with killing intent, Haibara didn't feel a thing.
Unlike the Ikkaku rock's fish case (When Ai felt pressure from Subaru during both the time.)

Haibara seems to be very accepting of Rumi which is quite revealing, and she was afraid of Kuroda but she thought that only his face scared her. Ayumi seemed to verify this, but haibara is a grown up woman and has seen more shit than Ayumi. So I think Haibara is correct to decide that he isn't Rum, but there's a chance that He's a BO member who has the impression that Rumi is Rum.


I get what you are saying but i really think Haibara was telling the truth when she said it was just her face that scared her. I really think Gosho was just teasing us again and plus hasn't he said before he talks through Haibara or something.

I think what she said is basically is the end of it.

Plus with the whole infiltration thing its way too many infiltrators in the BO and we as fans have said it for a while now and i think Gosho realizes it also. I cannot see him giving us even more. In fact i would expect to see more loyal BO members as time goes on.

Or here is a wildcard. Iori who we on occasion seem to have witnessed walking by in a stealth manner and Conan realizes it at the last second. Maybe the day Haibara felt that vibe he was also around somewhere. Maybe he HIMSELF is a BO member. Even if he is not Rum and Chikara is the one who is Rum, maybe they are working together in a pair.

Like how we have

Gin/Vodka
Vermouth/Bourbon(even though it can be argued Vermouth does her own thing as Gin has told us before)
Chianti/Korn

I could argue that we need more BO members now than just infiltrators.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Muga_Iori

If Iori is "Watson" maybe Rum(Chikara) would be Sherlock
Last edited by Spimer on May 29th, 2017, 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Enclosed multiple quotes in spoiler box to make thread reading easier
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 29th, 2017, 11:24 pm

alphajjc wrote:
Spoiler:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
alphajjc wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
reliq wrote:I tried to translate some shogi pieces with google and by knight the first kanji 桂 it reads as "katsura".
But I guess that Rumi didn't have 3 shogi pieces in her pocket.


Or better, it can be a cut piece of the kanji of K, from the said Bishop piece, to complete the message.

You, my friend have done an excellent discovery.

Check, I want your take on Houye Kuroda, I think that the guy deserves more attention than he's getting.

Wakita and Rumi seems to have hogged the limelight for quite some time.


I still expect Koruda to be Akai's father in disguise. I think the original story in the Kawanakajima Murder Case was Gosho using foreshadowing plot device and it will come out that he himself is using a disguise and it is that of Akai's father..

I don't have any reasoning why really but this is just my theory. Im curious to hear what Chek says herself about what role they will have


A part of me says that, he's the Akai senior and concurs with your foreshadowing theory, but another part of me says that he's an infiltrator in Bo, trying to take Rum down.

During the Burning tent case Haibara felt BO pressure, then we saw Rumi being in a triggered phase. But when Rumi was approaching the culprit with killing intent, Haibara didn't feel a thing.
Unlike the Ikkaku rock's fish case (When Ai felt pressure from Subaru during both the time.)

Haibara seems to be very accepting of Rumi which is quite revealing, and she was afraid of Kuroda but she thought that only his face scared her. Ayumi seemed to verify this, but haibara is a grown up woman and has seen more shit than Ayumi. So I think Haibara is correct to decide that he isn't Rum, but there's a chance that He's a BO member who has the impression that Rumi is Rum.


I get what you are saying but i really think Haibara was telling the truth when she said it was just her face that scared her. I really think Gosho was just teasing us again and plus hasn't he said before he talks through Haibara or something.

I think what she said is basically is the end of it.

Plus with the whole infiltration thing its way too many infiltrators in the BO and we as fans have said it for a while now and i think Gosho realizes it also. I cannot see him giving us even more. In fact i would expect to see more loyal BO members as time goes on.

Or here is a wildcard. Iori who we on occasion seem to have witnessed walking by in a stealth manner and Conan realizes it at the last second. Maybe the day Haibara felt that vibe he was also around somewhere. Maybe he HIMSELF is a BO member. Even if he is not Rum and Chikara is the one who is Rum, maybe they are working together in a pair.

Like how we have

Gin/Vodka
Vermouth/Bourbon(even though it can be argued Vermouth does her own thing as Gin has told us before)
Chianti/Korn

I could argue that we need more BO members now than just infiltrators.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Muga_Iori

If Iori is "Watson" maybe Rum(Chikara) would be Sherlock


Iori can be very well a hench-man of Rum, but in this BO-panic issue, I can't give Kuroda clean-chit.

It's a fact that Haibara can distinguish the strength of BO smells.(Pisco case, where she mentioned that Pisco's smell was weaker that the another person.)

So Kuroda might have had a faint smell and Haibara's BO sense got suppressed by the apparent fear which was due to Kuroda's face.
Haibara's only reason to discard him as Rum(not any BO member) was that he didn't come to kill her.
We can safely discard him as Rum but for a BO operative we'll have to wait and see, as of now indications are there.
Chekhov MacGuffin
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Time flies and stuff doesn't get done.

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » June 24th, 2017, 3:55 pm

Today in the department of making efforts to get things up to date...
Prepping materials and discussion topics for the not-yet-scheduled chapter 1000 podcast on discord so I can have a clean and clear Rum arc theory set.
Trying to upgrade the Silver Bullet and other Miyano material.
...and a new diagram!
Image
k11chi
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby k11chi » June 24th, 2017, 5:01 pm

Is this a preview for a new Worm-game?
Image
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Time flies and stuff doesn't get done.

Postby MeiTanteixX » June 24th, 2017, 5:03 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Today in the department of making efforts to get things up to date...
Prepping materials and discussion topics for the not-yet-scheduled chapter 1000 podcast on discord so I can have a clean and clear Rum arc theory set.
Trying to upgrade the Silver Bullet and other Miyano material.
...and a new diagram!
Image

Nice, I'm impressed by the effort put here.
Can't wait for the podcast.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Chekhov MacGuffin
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Flasks and Shogi

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » June 25th, 2017, 12:47 am

And in the time it took me to make another diagram, Chikara is starting to put on serious mileage in Kor's poll. 7 votes compared to 2 apiece for the next most popular options, Fakuroda and new char.

Here is the beta version of a diagram I am thinking of using for the Silver Bullet / APTX 4869 / original drug stuff.
Thoughts?

Image
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 25th, 2017, 1:03 am

The Flask looks great. The old APTX and SB were two different researches stemming out of the same original source. Then they got burnt and Haibara in her bid to recreate SB created an unlikely fusion. Makes great sense.

BTW Chekov one more thing about BO Hierarchy tree, can we put three personal attendants in Rum's box? (like they are his personal lackeys and do stuff for him, like the Curacao in movie 20.)

Another thing Check, Gin, Vodka, Bourbon has no qualms about showing their faces to low ranking BO staff. But Rum isn't like them, so is it possible in his social life Rum is such a popular man that he can be uniquely identified by just his face? More in line like Vermouth.
Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » June 25th, 2017, 1:24 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:The Flask looks great. The old APTX and SB were two different researches stemming out of the same original source. Then they got burnt and Haibara in her bid to recreate SB created an unlikely fusion. Makes great sense.
As long at is it is visually obvious and easy to interpret, that's good. My next step is going to be cleaning it up a bit and putting relevant manga panels in the background around the flask according to the timeline at each level.

Zerozaki4869 wrote:BTW Chekov one more thing about BO Hierarchy tree, can we put three personal attendants in Rum's box? (like they are his personal lackeys and do stuff for him, like the Curacao in movie 20.)
I don't really want to add something that hasn't been shown in manga. A theory that Rum has three attendants is pretty aggressive. It's plausible he might have secretaries like Gin, but until we actually see Rum delegating responsibility, I don't want to commit to that.

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Another thing Chek, Gin, Vodka, Bourbon has no qualms about showing their faces to low ranking BO staff. But Rum isn't like them, so is it possible in his social life Rum is such a popular man that he can be uniquely identified by just his face? More in line like Vermouth.
I don't know if that is generic cautiousness or because he is a public figure. It's certainly an idea worth pursuing.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 25th, 2017, 1:30 am

Another thing Check, just realized it.

Knight=Katsura Uma (Romaji)
Now if we delete Katsu we have RAUMA, which we can rearrange as AMARU which means "More-over, extra, etc." which can also be written as Mata.
So if it's a Knight then it has to be Katsumata.
(Also Kohji was killed in "USA" so I'm pretty sure if it was a Shogi piece then it would probably meant the Romaji reading. Can't expect "USA" cops to be versed in Kanji.)
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Flasks and Shogi

Postby MeiTanteixX » June 25th, 2017, 3:08 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:And in the time it took me to make another diagram, Chikara is starting to put on serious mileage in Kor's poll. 7 votes compared to 2 apiece for the next most popular options, Fakuroda and new char.

Here is the beta version of a diagram I am thinking of using for the Silver Bullet / APTX 4869 / original drug stuff.
Thoughts?

Image

This "alpha" drug, or as Zerozaki put it, "Original source", do u mean that SB and APTX stem from the same scientific area? Or do you mean that there was literally an "alpha" drug that was recreated differently by the Miyano? If it's the former, then yeah, that makes sense.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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