Chekhov's theories about the plot

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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 16th, 2017, 3:00 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, this makes me think the 10 year coma and sudden hair change could be a red herring/misdirect by Gosho to try and get us to think one Hyoe went into the hospital and another one came out...
Wouldn't the red-herring here be that his hair changed due to stress(since that was the explanation given)? Sure, Conan emphasized the keywords "different person", but he didn't openly build-up his thoughts on some swap theory, thus making me doubt how much of a mislead it can serve(narratively speaking).
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 16th, 2017, 3:20 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, this makes me think the 10 year coma and sudden hair change could be a red herring/misdirect by Gosho to try and get us to think one Hyoe went into the hospital and another one came out...
Wouldn't the red-herring here be that his hair changed due to stress(since that was the explanation given)? Sure, Conan emphasized the keywords "different person", but he didn't openly build-up his thoughts on some swap theory, thus making me doubt how much of a mislead it can serve(narratively speaking).


It would be the "I'm not doing this... actually, I am" twist. In this case, it'd be, "The Hyoe that came out of the coma isn't the same one that went into it... actually, he is."

Another example, in the case of Muga being Rum, and thus, making him the one behind Koji Haneda's and Amanda Hughes' murders—"The butler didn't do it... actually, he did."
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S.Vineyard
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby S.Vineyard » October 16th, 2017, 4:39 am

Kokuriko wrote:I see. Then again, I haven't seen the translation of that interview so would anyone please provide a link ?


Apparently, Gosho said this in ""Detective Conan Super Digest Book 60+" back in 2014.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... anslations

38. Is there a connection between BO and Tottori Prefecture? A: No. (big laugh)
K.O.R.N
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby K.O.R.N » October 16th, 2017, 10:30 am

Yamamura or his grandma being boss doesn't make sense in the first place, thus I never believed in this possibility. Tottori however, is tricky to cross out at that time because of the boss number right there. But I guess it's a fake number, since Tottoti is confirmed to have no connection to BO at all.
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Kokuriko
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Kokuriko » October 21st, 2017, 8:32 pm

S.Vineyard wrote:
Kokuriko wrote:I see. Then again, I haven't seen the translation of that interview so would anyone please provide a link ?


Apparently, Gosho said this in ""Detective Conan Super Digest Book 60+" back in 2014.

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... anslations

38. Is there a connection between BO and Tottori Prefecture? A: No. (big laugh)

Thank you for the link. Yeah looks like he had been fervently waiting for people to ask that question only to laugh at their faces. Still, I had a good time with these interviews.
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Asking some serious and important questions here, Japan :D . Gosho's answers are perfect. Hoshi Shinichi's short stories are really interesting, so it'll be a pleasant surprise for me if Q14 is true. For Q43 I'd rather have a Detective Showdown : Tanned edition featuring Heiji, Kyogoku (with Conan as his "assistance"), Rei and Kan-chan.

K.O.R.N wrote:Yamamura or his grandma being boss doesn't make sense in the first place, thus I never believed in this possibility. Tottori however, is tricky to cross out at that time because of the boss number right there. But I guess it's a fake number, since Tottoti is confirmed to have no connection to BO at all.

Makes sense. After all being the big shot of a dangerous organization means being careful to the extreme all the time or you'll die. I guess the phone number is also used as a distraction. Though I wonder if there's a traitor in the BO, one that actually is a bad guy and not a spy from some organization.
K.O.R.N
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby K.O.R.N » October 22nd, 2017, 9:56 am

Right. The phone number there was just a diversion, hence Haibara told Conan he'd die if he dared call that number. But given the fact that it was from Vermouth's phone, there's also a chance that it's a correct number. Well, either way, I guess, Haibara knows the boss "enough" to warn Conan to stay away from "that person", or that Conan is not "good" enough to be able to topple the organization that easily just by calling that number.
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Detective Magic
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Detective Magic » October 22nd, 2017, 4:27 pm

Kokuriko wrote:Though I wonder if there's a traitor in the BO, one that actually is a bad guy and not a spy from some organization.

Hey, that's actually a really good question. I guess you could call Vermouth a traitor, since she's not revealing information about the shrinking effect and she's protecting some people that in the BO's eyes could be dangerous to them, like Kogoro. I mean, she's not really a traitor because she's protecting someone, but the first point makes more sense in this situation.
But a character like that seems really hard to make. I mean, if they betrayed the Organisation, members would probably find that out pretty quickly, and they would have been killed instantly, like Shiho was supposed to be. And the fact that they opposed to the BO, probably means turning to the good side, because BO is supposed to be pure evil (or at least Gin is :) )) I guess you could make a person, who for some reason (money? grudge) betrays the BO and for example tries to destroy it from the inside, but still is a cold blooded murderer, whose heart is as cold as ice ;).

(Not a good grammar day. Sorry)
Kokuriko
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Re: Chekhov's theories about the plot

Postby Kokuriko » October 26th, 2017, 1:54 am

Detective Magic wrote:Hey, that's actually a really good question. I guess you could call Vermouth a traitor, since she's not revealing information about the shrinking effect and she's protecting some people that in the BO's eyes could be dangerous to them, like Kogoro. I mean, she's not really a traitor because she's protecting someone, but the first point makes more sense in this situation.
But a character like that seems really hard to make. I mean, if they betrayed the Organisation, members would probably find that out pretty quickly, and they would have been killed instantly, like Shiho was supposed to be. And the fact that they opposed to the BO, probably means turning to the good side, because BO is supposed to be pure evil (or at least Gin is :) )) I guess you could make a person, who for some reason (money? grudge) betrays the BO and for example tries to destroy it from the inside, but still is a cold blooded murderer, whose heart is as cold as ice ;).
(Not a good grammar day. Sorry)


Ah, it seems I didn't make myself clear enough. "The traitor" idea of mine doesn't come together with "destroy the BO from within". From my POV, the phone number implies the boss took a very careful step to hinder every incoming suspicious source that intend to locate his whereabouts, regardless of their motives. That is to say, he has a good reason not to put too much trust on every BO member, especially if that member is someone who would want to gain control of his position as the leader. The BO isn't some law enforcement agency; the more you become an important and powerful figure, the more enemies you will make. It's like a double-edged sword, but still an invaluable sword nonetheless.
And it would make a funny coincidence, because I stumbled upon a wiki entry about Bumbo (a drink using Rum as ingredient) while doing some research about liqueurs in general: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumbo
It mentions another less known drink named "Traitor", made with orange juice, rum, honey and nutmeg. I doubt Gosho thinks THAT far ahead, but learning the cocktails related to the names of BO members is quite fun.
About Vermouth, I don't see her as a traitor, more like a sympathetic villain from Gosho's view. I particularly don't like her, but I appreciate her affection for the main couple.

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