Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,060

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
blackmoon

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by blackmoon »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:10 pm
There's no 50/50 on Rumi for me—I think Muga or Chikara turning out to be Rum is more likely than Rumi turning out to be Rum (though I've been seriously questioning whether the fourth suspect route is still possible, let alone likely—if the scene with Agasa and the four mugs from the beginning of the arc was there to say there'll be four Rum suspects, and there'll be "cheating" on Goshō's part... then Goshō going as far to lie in an interview, an out-of-universe cheat, seems to me to be going too far in the cheating, because my assumption was that this cheating would be relegated to in-universe cheats, in the manga, itself).
Well.... there is actually a way to get around this introducing a fourth character as RUM without having it to be a cheat... say for example having RUM turn out to be Wakita, which is one of the three suspects, yet Wakita doesn't really exist in reality and is just a fake character disguised by Vermouth or/ Muga/or Chikara Katsumata... so RUM turns out to be one of the 3 RUM suspects yet not actually one of the 3 but a fourth character... whew.... complicated. ::)
Anyways, Irish from the movie who disguised himself as Kiyonaga Matsumoto to infiltrate the police is a similar example of how a B.O. agent can turn out to be.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by MeiTanteixX »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:10 pm

then Goshō going as far to lie in an interview, an out-of-universe cheat, seems to me to be going too far in the cheating, because my assumption was that this cheating would be relegated to in-universe cheats, in the manga, itself).
Agreed.
That's why I think there should be some truth to his answer, albeit misleading.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 7:42 am
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:10 pm

then Goshō going as far to lie in an interview, an out-of-universe cheat, seems to me to be going too far in the cheating, because my assumption was that this cheating would be relegated to in-universe cheats, in the manga, itself).
Agreed.
That's why I think there should be some truth to his answer, albeit misleading.
He answered the question of "Is Rum certainly among the trio of Wakasa, Kuroda and Wakita?" with a yes. Muga is Rum to you, right? How does he tell a misleading truth without lying, here? At least to me, right now, such an answer isn't presenting itself in my mind. As blackmoon mentioned, it could work if another character was disguised as one of the 3, but I don't think Muga is disguised as one of them.

Anyway, more spoiler pics have come out—Here are the translations:
Page 2
Yusaku: The case involving serial locked room murders that's happened for the last month...
Yusaku: Well, each victim has no connection in terms of age or job and the murder methods vary in each case... And so I was told that it's unclear whether they were all killed by the same culprit or not...

Page 4
Yusaku: An emergency live broadcast next Saturday at 8PM, in Tōto TV!
Yusaku: Titled "Complete explanation of the serial locked room murder cases"! I will solve the mystery!
Yusaku: But until I saw the crime scenes photos today at the MPD...
Yusaku: I only intended to make a deduction based on the available information... 
Reporter: I-I belong to another station, but I'm looking forward to it...
Yusaku: If you'll excuse me!
Reporter: Ah!
Reporter: Allow me one last question!
Reporter: You strangely solved a false accusation against Kid, too...
Reporter: Please send him a message!
Yusaku: Let's see...
Yusaku: If you consider you owe me one, please consider buying one of my novels...

Page 6
Conan: You want to disguise yourself as Dad... and make me use the voice changer?!
Yukiko: Ssshhhhhh!!!
Yukiko: Truth is, Yu-chan was supposed to go to the MPD HQ at noon to reveal the truth of the case, but he fell asleep before that...
Conan: I see..
Conan: You still haven’t heard the truth of the case yet... 
Conan: So you want me to go home with you, show me the case’s materials, and solve it to prepare for the television special...
Yukiko: As excepted of my son!
Yukiko: You’re spot on!
Conan: Geez.... got it!
Conan: So when will the TV crew come?
Yukiko: 6 pm..
Conan: 4 hours left, then?

And here is a summary of the chapter, courtesy of Sidier#8557:
File 1,058
Deduction Show on TV!?

Yusaku comes out of the MPD building, and the media accosts him. He mentions that Nakamori came up to him and asked him to look into a recent crime, saying he felt something was off with it. A museum owner, arrested under suspicion of fraud that morning for selling jewels to deal with hard times for his business, had tried to make it look like Kid had stolen from him in order to get insurance money. Yusaku also reveals that he came to the MPD at Megure's request to solve a series of locked room murders that happened over the span of a month. All 3 victims were killed in different ways, and were all of different ages and jobs, so the MPD has had a hard time finding who's responsible. Having now seen photos of the crime scenes, Yusaku has figured out the trick behind the locked rooms, but he still hasn't figured out the culprit. As he leaves, he reveals that he's scheduled for a TV appearance to reveal the truth. A shadowman figure grins while watching this on their phone.

3 days later, on the day Yusaku is meant to film for the program, he's been lying in bed after eating at an Italian restaurant—he was even supposed to go to the MPD today to tell Megure about the truth of the case, so now no one else knows what the truth of the case . Since the producer of the program is the same producer who played a key role in the first-ever TV adaption of Yusaku's work, it'll be hard to turn him down, so Yukiko suggests Conan solve the case and then he can use the voice changer to relay his deduction through her while she disguises as Yusaku. A shadowman figure grins while eavesdropping on them.

Akai is out on FBI business as Conan looks at the case files. He figures out the trick to the locked room, that the 3 murders were committed by the same killer, and is thus able to get a rough idea of who the culprit is. He goes to get Yukiko, but she now has the same food poisoning as Yusaku. The TV staff have come and Conan's voice changer hasn't finished charging, so he goes to tell them to leave... but a 3rd Yusaku appears at the door. 
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on August 6th, 2020, 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by MeiTanteixX »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 2:14 pm
MeiTanteixX wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 7:42 am
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 12:10 pm

then Goshō going as far to lie in an interview, an out-of-universe cheat, seems to me to be going too far in the cheating, because my assumption was that this cheating would be relegated to in-universe cheats, in the manga, itself).
Agreed.
That's why I think there should be some truth to his answer, albeit misleading.
He answered the question of "Is Rum certainly among the trio of Wakasa, Kuroda and Wakita?" with a yes. Muga is Rum to you, right? How does he tell a misleading truth without lying, here? At least to me, right now, such an answer isn't presenting itself in my mind.
I guess you have forgotten about the other accompanying theory that already opened up "4th suspect" as a possibility to you in the past.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 3:07 pm
I guess you have forgotten about the other accompanying theory that already opened up "4th suspect" as a possibility to you in the past.
I did indeed forget. Thanks for the links. :)

Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Gosho was referring to a former Rum and not the current Rum in his answer to that question, it is indeed possible for Gosho to answer it like that to shimmy his way out of it (after all, in the same questionnaire, he gave an evasive answer on the possibility of codenames being inherited).
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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dccd

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by dccd »

Atleast to me the most logical assumption is that the answer to the question regarding the inheritance of codenames is simply: Yes.
Otherwise he would´ve simply denied or "laughed" about it as he always does.
So most likely codenames can be inherited.

With this in mind, which members codename might have been inherited?
Ano Kata as far as I know has no codename.
The story of most other members is already told. I doubt that there will be more members to come, too.
So Rum (maybe Gin/Vodka) are pretty much the only ones where we can expect some inheritance-background-story.

And wouldnt this fit pretty well?
Rum messed up 17 years ago. He lost his number 2 spot with him being replaced by someone else.
There obv is some bad blood between them which leads to the "Pirates spririt (=Rum) is weak"-comment by former Rum Wakita.

If one agrees so far, one might even go that far to assume that all or atleast some of the (potential) hints we got so far by Gosho
might only be connected to former Wakita.
(One eye -> former Rum / Wakita ; impatience -> current Rum).
So there isnt a need for current Rum (Iori/Chikara/anyone else) to be eye-damaged.
"But...but...but thats so unfair to the reader. It isnt fun."
Yeah, but its misleading ("cheating" if u want so) and thats pretty much what a good whodunit story is all about.

But in the end: Wakita is Rum. Game over.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by Kor »

Since Gosho was asked this question not in a live interview but in a Q&A to be published after the fact, if Gosho hadn't wanted to answer a question which confirms there are just the three suspects, all he had to do is... not answer that specific question and it wouldn't have even entered the super digest book. Why is this the one answer that anyone would choose to assume Gosho lies about, but every other answer is an absolute truth? (other than wishful thinking, I mean)

Besides, in the same Q&A there was this question too.
Q93: “The “screwing up” that RUM did during the Haneda Kouji case, was it a major mistake? If that was the case, why wasn’t RUM killed (as punishment)?

A: “Because (they’re) No. 2.”
They were already the second in command at the time, so why would a "new Rum" be the current 2nd in command instead?
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 4:05 pm
Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Gosho was referring to a former Rum and not the current Rum in his answer to that question, it is indeed possible for Gosho to answer it like that to shimmy his way out of it (after all, in the same questionnaire, he gave an evasive answer on the possibility of codenames being inherited).
Isn't that like saying...
Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Santa exists, it is indeed possible for Santa to exist.
or
Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Genta is actually an alien, it is indeed possible for Genta to be an alien.
Or basically, the possibility of a thing, or the inability to disprove a possibility, doesn't inherently gives weight to the possibility actually being true.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Kor wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 6:27 pm
Why is this the one answer that anyone would choose to assume Gosho lies about, but every other answer is an absolute truth?
It's quite obviously the most important question when the current, and relevant, ongoing mystery is concerned (Rum's identity), which Gosho had already spent 4 years consistently building up at that time, and considering the fact that we never got an in-universe confirmation to that Rum is one of the three (which is something he has done in previous arcs for his suspects [Bus hijack / Nocturne]), added with the fact that he introduced "3 suspicious suspects" with one being an Amuro-copy that's jarringly similar in characterization and development (even shown with clear remarks like "another apprentice?") as if to repeat the previous arc's twist (something he has never actually done before, let alone this explicitly), I'd say it's the most special and likely question that he could have chosen to misleadingly reply to, all for the sake of feeding the very idea he is evidently trying to portray in the manga,... that Rum's identity plot is practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by vaibhavgupte »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 7:15 pm
Kor wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 6:27 pm
Why is this the one answer that anyone would choose to assume Gosho lies about, but every other answer is an absolute truth?
It's quite obviously the most important question when the current, and relevant, ongoing mystery is concerned (Rum's identity), which Gosho had already spent 4 years consistently building up at that time, and considering the fact that we never got an in-universe confirmation to that Rum is one of the three (which is something he has done in previous arcs for his suspects [Bus hijack / Nocturne]), added with the fact that he introduced "3 suspicious suspects" with one being an Amuro-copy that's jarringly similar in characterization and development (even shown with clear remarks like "another apprentice?") as if to repeat the previous arc's twist (something he has never actually done before, let alone this explicitly), I'd say it's the most special and likely question that he could have chosen to misleadingly reply to, all for the sake of feeding the very idea he is evidently trying to portray in the manga,... that Rum's identity plot is practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot.
MeiTantexX I think its already an in universe confirmation that there are 4 suspects.
in file 1005 the when we see three suspects holding phone to see shinichi information. before these three there is a
BIG panel shown not showing the face but facing mobile screen reading shinichi news .
and then since kuroda face is shown in next panel (followed by wakita and wakasa) people assumed that is kuroda's hand. also note that the mystry panel person's phone, kuroda's phoe and wakita's phone all are shown black.

kuroda's and wakita's phone is shown from behind while
that mystery panel' s phone is shown from front.
one can clearly see two fingers of both kuroda and wakita not crossing the edge of phone from behind. so if we were to see them from front the two fingers wont be visible from front .
but contrary to this the mystery panel person has his two fingers clearly visible from front showing that its a different person.

now these can be counter claims of people claiming 3supsects/ counter that its muga iori.. I have considered almost all possibilities. I have given answer to these.
If you have a different possibility plz tell

1)that mystery panel could be rumi wakasa's hand .
since she is not shown holding phone. directly on laptop.
my answer:
rumi's phone is shown at hatoyama farm and its white and not black like mystery panel person.
2)why is the fourth person iori not katsumata.
answer:
coz iori is rum will givevyou that " It was right in front of us still we couldnt see" feeling.
main point: iori's phone is shown in lover code case.
its black in colour as the phobe in mystery panel.
3) this is what most people will say : This could be by mistake from gosho not intentional.
this question has two parts:
a) if someone thinks that kuroda's fingers were
outside of phone's edge then he took them inside in next panel. probably mistakely by gosho.
answer: then why show that mystery hand in a big panel.
b) if phone colour of rumi and iori' phones matches my story is coincidence:
answer: then your story has two many coincidences.
for this theory to be correct :
1.both iori and rumi's phone needed to be shown which was done later on .
2.iori's phone needed to be black which is shown by gosho in lover code case.
3.wakasa ' s phone to be non black again which is again shown by gosho at hatoyama farm.

The final point which will weaken my theory is that.
4)kuroda 's phone changed colour or he has two phones (proven)so why not possible that similary rumi has two phones and that hand was her which was shown in mystery panel

answer: this theory again needs two many coincidences .
first coincidence: wakasa having second phone
second coincidence : that the mystery hand was her
third coincidence: in that panel she used black phone which isnt shown and not the white which is shown uptil now.

also note that kuroda having two phones is nit big deal since he is in contact with spy bourbon.

so if the fourth suspect thing is fake then this should be justified.
Last edited by vaibhavgupte on August 6th, 2020, 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DCUniverseAficionado
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 1:00 am

in file 1005 the when we see three suspects holding phone to see shinichi information. before these three there is a
BIG panel shown not showing the face but facing mobile screen reading shinichi news .
That's either the fourth suspect or just some random person looking at the news.
Kor wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 6:27 pm
Since Gosho was asked this question not in a live interview but in a Q&A to be published after the fact, if Gosho hadn't wanted to answer a question which confirms there are just the three suspects, all he had to do is... not answer that specific question and it wouldn't have even entered the super digest book. Why is this the one answer that anyone would choose to assume Gosho lies about, but every other answer is an absolute truth? (other than wishful thinking, I mean)

Besides, in the same Q&A there was this question too.
Q93: “The “screwing up” that RUM did during the Haneda Kouji case, was it a major mistake? If that was the case, why wasn’t RUM killed (as punishment)?

A: “Because (they’re) No. 2.”
They were already the second in command at the time, so why would a "new Rum" be the current 2nd in command instead?
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 3rd, 2020, 4:05 pm
Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Gosho was referring to a former Rum and not the current Rum in his answer to that question, it is indeed possible for Gosho to answer it like that to shimmy his way out of it (after all, in the same questionnaire, he gave an evasive answer on the possibility of codenames being inherited).
Isn't that like saying...
Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Santa exists, it is indeed possible for Santa to exist.
or
Unless someone has a counter argument for the possibility that Genta is actually an alien, it is indeed possible for Genta to be an alien.
Or basically, the possibility of a thing, or the inability to disprove a possibility, doesn't inherently gives weight to the possibility actually being true.
The question didn't refer to a current Rum or a former Rum, so if Rum is a fourth suspect other than Hyōe, Kanenori and Rumi, he could simply answer with a yes and create misdirection.

That would depend on whether the Boss, when passing on codenames, wanted the successor to eventually take up the role the predecessor had. The current Rum may not have been made #2 when they first got the Rum codename, but 17 years gives plenty of time to work their way up. And who knows which members, if any, the Boss clued in on this change? Vermouth may know, but I don't think Gin or the others would, hence why all the current and former members refer to the current Rum as if they're the former Rum.

"Absolute truth?" Gosho's human, so by mistake or apathy, of course there could be unintentionally misleading info elsewhere, and this specific question could, in actuality, be eliminating the possibility of a fourth suspect.

Just as you say, it's a possibility, not a certainty (i.e., certainly not something I'd be basing something like an academic text on). While not a certainty, it's not a possibility I mind indulging. I'd prefer that the scene from 898/783 with Agasa and the four mugs actually meant something, rather than it just being random filler that actually meant nothing... and I'd prefer that Gosho had Kanenori be this similar to how Rei was in the last arc to set up subversion, rather than Kanenori turning out to be Rum just like Rei turned out to be Bourbon:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 7:15 pm
he introduced "3 suspicious suspects" with one being an Amuro-copy that's jarringly similar in characterization and development (even shown with clear remarks like "another apprentice?") as if to repeat the previous arc's twist (something he has never actually done before, let alone this explicitly), I'd say it's the most special and likely question that he could have chosen to misleadingly reply to, all for the sake of feeding the very idea he is evidently trying to portray in the manga,... that Rum's identity plot is practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by Kor »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 7:15 pm
It's quite obviously the most important question when the current, and relevant, ongoing mystery is concerned (Rum's identity), which Gosho had already spent 4 years consistently building up at that time,
We're talking about the same Gosho who in 2010 told the world how "it would be interesting" if a character called Amuro would be in the Black Organization.
Ikeda (Voice actor for Akai Shuuichi): By the way, under what circumstance did a character named "Akai Shuuichi" emerge? In Conan, the characters are always named after famous detectives. It's curious that Gundam is the basis of this name.
Aoyama: There's also the possibility that (I) ran out of detective-based names (laughs). When it was decided that (we) would introduce an FBI agent who would side with the protagonist, Conan, I wanted to base the image of that astute investigator on Char. That's why (I) decided on just the last name to be "Akai (red)" at first. After that, when (I) pondered on what the first name should be, (I) decided it to be "Shuuichi" after you, Ikeda-san (laughs). Since Conan's real name is "Shinichi," and "Shinichi" and "Shuuichi" sound similar, (I) wouldn't normally pick (this name), but I thought that it would be okay, just this once.

Ikeda: What an honor! Since I get to voice the TV-version as well, I feel a quite a deep bond (to the character? to Gosho?).
Aoyama: For the anime's important character's, I get asked by P (I don't know what the heck P is), "Do you have an image (of who the voice actor should be) in mind?" For Akai, I requested (by replying), "Who else but Ikeda-san!" and the wish came true!

(omitted)

Ikeda: Will there be more Gundam-based (ideas? characters?) in Conan?
Aoyama: If Conan's ally's highest ranking member is Akai, then it would be interesting if there were characters with Gundam-based names in the Black Organization as well. Like "Amuro Akira/Tooru" (徹 can be read both as Tooru or Akira) (laughs). For Gundam, the good guys and bad guys should be reversed. In this case, the voice actor is more or less decided (laughs).
Ikeda: That's true, there's only that person (laughs)
And that's almost two years before Amuro was introduced in the manga, and two and a half years before he was revealed to be Bourbon.

It's also the same Gosho who told us a month after Sera was introduced that she's "maybe" the sister of a main character (and alerted everyone who didn't catch on that she also has a Gundam inspired name)
Q: Which character is popular among the readers?
A: Sera Masumi, the new character. It seems that she's winning by an landslide. The name seems to be understood by people who understands. Is it good to have so much Gundam? (laughs) Maybe she's the sister of a major character . . . (laughs). I'm excited to see who the voice actor will be.
Those were important and relevant mysteries at the time, and Gosho gave non-misleading information about them just like that.
and considering the fact that we never got an in-universe confirmation to that Rum is one of the three (which is something he has done in previous arcs for his suspects [Bus hijack / Nocturne]),
We did, though. I understand the visual indication as is in the manga may not be enough for you, but it's the same visual indication like in the Bourbon arc.
added with the fact that he introduced "3 suspicious suspects" with one being an Amuro-copy that's jarringly similar in characterization and development (even shown with clear remarks like "another apprentice?") as if to repeat the previous arc's twist (something he has never actually done before, let alone this explicitly),
And yet surely one cannot deny that Gosho is very repetitive. The Vermouth arc hinges on disguises? The Bourbon arc hinges on disguises. The Kir arc involved a BO agent who's a spy? The Bourbon arc as well. And then add all the cheap childhood loves, secret sibling plots (Akai even had two of those), etc.
I'd say it's the most special and likely question that he could have chosen to misleadingly reply to, all for the sake of feeding the very idea he is evidently trying to portray in the manga,... that Rum's identity plot is practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot.
Okay, but what if... it will legitimately be practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot?
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 1:07 am
Just as you say, it's a possibility, not a certainty (i.e., certainly not something I'd be basing something like an academic text on). While not a certainty, it's not a possibility I mind indulging. I'd prefer that the scene from 898/783 with Agasa and the four mugs actually meant something, rather than it just being random filler that actually meant nothing... and I'd prefer that Gosho had Kanenori be this similar to how Rei was in the last arc to set up subversion, rather than Kanenori turning out to be Rum just like Rei turned out to be Bourbon:
So in other words, your hope for the existence of this fourth suspect is for the sake of your personal perception of Gosho as a writer?
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Kor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 4:28 am
We did, though. I understand the visual indication as is in the manga may not be enough for you, but it's the same visual indication like in the Bourbon arc.
Except, this is not a matter of "visual indication" (words that can even describe a mislead), but rather actual in-universe evidence to that Rum is one of the three, and what we have gotten in this arc (3 Rum suspects reacting to Kudo Shinichi news, just like the rest of Japan) is definitely not the same as in Bourbon arc (Vermouth calling and talking to Bourbon on the phone as she was watches a crash scene from afar where one of three people involved, that are on a call and that fits with her description of someone infiltrating, is receiving her message). Bourbon arc's was direct evidence to that the main antagonist was among a set amount of suspects, just like in Vermouth arc, where Gosho showed Vermouth's inner reaction to an incident in a bus (limiting the suspects to only the bus passengers).
Kor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 4:28 am
Okay, but what if... it will legitimately be practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot?
Then that would be a big sign of inconsistency in his mystery writing, which I personally find more unlikely than him giving a misleading answer outside of his story.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 4:28 am
And yet surely one cannot deny that Gosho is very repetitive. The Vermouth arc hinges on disguises? The Bourbon arc hinges on disguises. The Kir arc involved a BO agent who's a spy? The Bourbon arc as well. And then add all the cheap childhood loves, secret sibling plots (Akai even had two of those), etc.

Okay, but what if... it will legitimately be practically the same as Bourbon's identity plot?

Your hope for the existence of this fourth suspect is for the sake of your personal perception of Gosho as a writer?
Implying that, if Kanenori turns out to be Rum, I will declare that Gosho's just some has-been coasting on past success who's stopped putting effort into his work, and I will thus stop taking it seriously? Okay, let's say that's how things are going to be, and DC is just too repetitive, now, to be taken seriously as it used to be... if DC doesn't deserve serious time and attention from those who are taking it seriously, then what mystery manga series should we be taking seriously, instead? You have a specific recommendation?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by Kor »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 12:23 pm
Implying that, if Kanenori turns out to be Rum, I will declare that Gosho's just some has-been coasting on past success who's stopped putting effort into his work, and I will thus stop taking it seriously?
Eh... I don't know...? I wasn't implying anything, I was sincerely asking a question because you made it sound like Gosho choosing to do one thing over another thing means something to you. I've no qualms with how you interact with this series regardless of the Rum outcome.
if DC doesn't deserve serious time and attention from those who are taking it seriously, then what mystery manga series should we be taking seriously, instead? You have a specific recommendation?
I mean... if you go back to read the post you're replying to, you'll see that you're just putting words in my mouth, as no one has said anything about abandoning the series or not taking it seriously or moving on to another manga, which is why I can't and won't entertain these deflecting questions. not to mention that DC is the only manga I still read

I'm not sure what's the purpose of these deflecting questions either because, well, I already think Wakita is Rum (and thus a copy of Bourbon) and yet... I'm still here, aren't I? I've already accepted this manga being a bit too repetitive so Wakita being Rum is just one more example, so it's not even a major concern for me as far as this series goes.

So if you don't mind, I'll ask again (because you didn't really answer that question): So in other words, your hope for the existence of this fourth suspect is for the sake of your personal perception of Gosho as a writer?

(I mean, if it doesn't mean anything to you, then great. If it does mean something to you, then... that's also great.)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,058-1,06X

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 4:55 pm
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 12:23 pm
Implying that, if Kanenori turns out to be Rum, I will declare that Gosho's just some has-been coasting on past success who's stopped putting effort into his work, and I will thus stop taking it seriously?
I wasn't implying anything, I was sincerely asking a question because you made it sound like Gosho choosing to do one thing over another thing means something to you. I've no qualms with how you interact with this series regardless of the Rum outcome.
Well, that's because I can be inexperienced and clumsy with text-based communication (and communication, in general), so I came off as if I was offended by you (amongst other unintended and extreme apologist zealot impressions I'm making/I have been making).

Allow me to clarify—while I'd prefer Gosho mix things up and have a fourth suspect be Rum... I'm fine if Kanenori turns out to be Rum.
Kor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 4:55 pm
You're just putting words in my mouth, as no one has said anything about abandoning the series or not taking it seriously or moving on to another manga, which is why I can't and won't entertain these deflecting questions. not to mention that DC is the only manga I still read

I'm not sure what's the purpose of these deflecting questions either because, well, I already think Wakita is Rum (and thus a copy of Bourbon) and yet... I'm still here, aren't I? I've already accepted this manga being a bit too repetitive so Wakita being Rum is just one more example, so it's not even a major concern for me as far as this series goes.
So even with this mystery series being repetitive and predictable, it's still has enough quality to invest time in? It's just that when I hear that someone thinks a mystery series is repetitive and predictable, I'm surprised when they're still reading it. For my part, it's more about the characters first, and the mystery second.

Oh. So none of the other long-runners (i.e., One Piece) or any of the newer stuff (i.e., Dr. Stone) made you want to keep reading?

There's no purpose, for it wasn't my intent. If I'm coming off like someone who's intentionally deflecting your questions, that's just bad communication on my part.

Okay. So you were bringing up the repetitive nature in regards to speculations/theories that you thought, if people took seriously, they'd be setting themselves up for disappointment if they don't pan out (i.e., Rum being a fourth suspect)?
Kor wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 4:55 pm
So if you don't mind, I'll ask again (because you didn't really answer that question): So in other words, your hope for the existence of this fourth suspect is for the sake of your personal perception of Gosho as a writer?

(I mean, if it doesn't mean anything to you, then great. If it does mean something to you, then... that's also great.)
My personal perception of Gosho Aoyama as a creator of fictional entertainment (and as a writer) will not be too adversely affected if Kanenori Wakita turns out to be Rum.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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