Rum's profile

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 283

Rum's profile

Postby Zerozaki4869 » March 11th, 2018, 4:12 am

I've come across a bunch of Rum theories which only tries to fit characters into Rum. I'm not going to take that approach as it's deficient and twists facts to fit person A as Rum.

I'm trying to build Rum's profile/persona.

a)He is the second in command of BO and has a good amount of executives running errands for him.(Like Bourbon)

b)people say conflicting stuff about his description yet all say his one eye is fake. Now an Old man's face can't be a womanly man's face or vice versa. A strong man doesn't have the same face of an old man and vice versa. So one thing we can conclude that nobody has seen his face.
(Think of of kansuke being the Rum model. If people saw Kansuke's face, womanly man and old man interpretation falls flat. The description becomes a man with a ponytail or a man with a bad leg.)

c) There is much bigger scope to get Rum from his victims angle.(Kohji was in a position to name Rum uniquely, hence the dying message. Now here Tooth fairy or Russel's teapots are being thrown around by some folks. They claim that Rum is a klutz he uttered his codename infront of Kohji or told Kohji that I'm Rum and I'll kill you with APTX. Now There is no proof that these things didn't transpired but also there is bit of proof that these things are improbable. A person who is the second in command of a very efficient criminal organization doing some assassinations is expected to be tight lipped. Also BO has nothing to do with some random Shogi player.)

d) As the mirror clue is very speculative in nature, there is no need to attach any importance to it. As of now we have no proof that whether the mirror was handled by Kohji or not(nothing is said about the fingerprints on the mirror). The mirror had backing, and Agasa mentioned that CMP reaction is a tricky stuff as it will cause tiny fragments to scatter around the wash basin. Thus if Kohji was creating the message it would have scattered and on some he would have fell upon.(As he was beaten down)

e) But Kohji held on to the object and the scissors till his last breath.(That's why the bruise marks as blod clotted there due to pressure but when the objects were retrieved from his palm, he he was already dead so the bruise was there.)

f) Now Rum is a person who can enter Kohji's room, Kohji knew his name.

g) So Rum is a very influential person in his social life ,was Kohji's acquaintance and had a good enough reason to be present in Juke hotel other than Killing Kohji and/or Amanda.
haibara4ever
Posts: 2

Re: Rum's profile

Postby haibara4ever » March 11th, 2018, 11:36 am

I can't follow your conclusions.

a) First seems obvious. Second is speculation. He gave orders to Bourbon this time, doesn't mean he does that 24/7. Doesn't even mean Rum has any executives. He could work alone and ask for assistance in some cases. He culd do that because he is above anyone we know right now not because they are executives of him.

b) Speculation. There is no proof nobody has seen his face before. We don´t even know if people described him with this attributes at the same time. It could mean one person says A. Another person says B. We don´t know if one person described him as A B and C at the same time. Look for something that would make different person from different angels say different things but always describe the same thing.

c) Where is your proof Kohji could name Rum uniquely? Right now the dying message is Carasuma. Doesn´t seem like Renya Karasuma is Rum right now. But we probably have not deciphered the whole message, as we have not included the scissor and what Kohji had in his hands with our dying message right now. I don´t see proof his dying message names Rum. It didn´t even name him in our first dying message ASAKARUM, as we dont know Asaka and Rum this message is like XY, not even X = Y, didn't tell us anything at all to be honest.

d) Why ignore the mirror clue? It's a key part of this case. We can't say if it is relevant to Rum but we can definitely NOT say it is not relevant.

e) This is obviously true.

f) Speculation. We don't know anything about a relationship between Kohji and Rum. We don't know if they even knew each other. And we don't know if Kohji knew his name. I can enter a room without permission. I just open the door. If it is closed I have to break it. For a professional killer a closed door will be no problem. He could open the door, kill Kohji and leave.

g) Speculation. We don't know anything about his social life. We don't know his relationship to Kohji. In particular we don't know if he was his acquaintance. We don't know if he had another reason to be present in the hotel. We don't even know if he was there to kill in the first place. How about retriving sensitive data? Getting caught, fighting and finally kill someone? So many options.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 283

Re: Rum's profile

Postby Zerozaki4869 » March 11th, 2018, 10:39 pm

haibara4ever wrote:I can't follow your conclusions.

a) First seems obvious. Second is speculation. He gave orders to Bourbon this time, doesn't mean he does that 24/7. Doesn't even mean Rum has any executives. He could work alone and ask for assistance in some cases. He culd do that because he is above anyone we know right now not because they are executives of him.

b) Speculation. There is no proof nobody has seen his face before. We don´t even know if people described him with this attributes at the same time. It could mean one person says A. Another person says B. We don´t know if one person described him as A B and C at the same time. Look for something that would make different person from different angels say different things but always describe the same thing.

c) Where is your proof Kohji could name Rum uniquely? Right now the dying message is Carasuma. Doesn´t seem like Renya Karasuma is Rum right now. But we probably have not deciphered the whole message, as we have not included the scissor and what Kohji had in his hands with our dying message right now. I don´t see proof his dying message names Rum. It didn´t even name him in our first dying message ASAKARUM, as we dont know Asaka and Rum this message is like XY, not even X = Y, didn't tell us anything at all to be honest.

d) Why ignore the mirror clue? It's a key part of this case. We can't say if it is relevant to Rum but we can definitely NOT say it is not relevant.

e) This is obviously true.

f) Speculation. We don't know anything about a relationship between Kohji and Rum. We don't know if they even knew each other. And we don't know if Kohji knew his name. I can enter a room without permission. I just open the door. If it is closed I have to break it. For a professional killer a closed door will be no problem. He could open the door, kill Kohji and leave.

g) Speculation. We don't know anything about his social life. We don't know his relationship to Kohji. In particular we don't know if he was his acquaintance. We don't know if he had another reason to be present in the hotel. We don't even know if he was there to kill in the first place. How about retriving sensitive data? Getting caught, fighting and finally kill someone? So many options.


A) Does a secretive second in command, whose name is barely heard in the organization and who is currently on the move not have power to order nearby executives to do his bidding?

B) Again you seemed like typed stuff without reading. I said you can't mistake a strong man's face as an old man's face, or a womanly man's face with a old man's face. If people saw his face, these statements couldn't have been made. Also haibara categorical tells Conan that three descriptions come from three mutually exclusive set of people.

C) How do you know that the dying message is Carasuma??(Where is the proof that Kohji had handeled the mirror? Where is the proof that Kohji was the one who created the message? Where is the proof that Kohji's bathroom tap was opened by Kohji himself? It was kept running, that means the person who opened it didn't close it. So If Kohji was the one open that tap, then Kohji was either got attacked in his bathroom again or died in there. Do you have any proof to conclude that Kohji was attacked once again in the bathroom or his corpse was found there?

It's funny that you rampantly point to stuff as Speculation, but what you currently say is nothing more than speculation, itself.)

D)Read above reasons, I don't know why you ignored the clearly outlined reasons (About the speculative nature of the mirror clue.)

E) Yes and Mirror clue is speculative, so shouldn't it be clear that what is more important??

F) Random Assassins aren't named by their victims. Dying message points to one's killer. Now if Kohji had no means to know who Rum is, how could he and why would he leave a message in the first place? Now Rum isn't a dumbass to start introducing himself before he killed Kohji. Only logical conclusion is, Rum in his social life was known by Kohji. Possibly it was the reason he had to kill Kohji. Kohji had probably seen him going into Amanda's room and in the inquest if Kohji names him by social persona he would have been screwed badly.

G) Was Kohji door being broken down?? (From where did you get the information.)

H) We know everything about his social life if we use logic. Unlike Gin, Rum doesn't hold face to face conversations(if that was the case then three descriptions wouldn't even emerge), he doesn't even make voice calls. Unlike Gin(It's a proof that he can be identified by his face and voice alone, uniquely.) So people hear his voice and see his face in public domain quite regularly.)
haibara4ever
Posts: 2

Re: Rum's profile

Postby haibara4ever » March 16th, 2018, 1:26 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
haibara4ever wrote:I can't follow your conclusions.

a) First seems obvious. Second is speculation. He gave orders to Bourbon this time, doesn't mean he does that 24/7. Doesn't even mean Rum has any executives. He could work alone and ask for assistance in some cases. He culd do that because he is above anyone we know right now not because they are executives of him.

b) Speculation. There is no proof nobody has seen his face before. We don´t even know if people described him with this attributes at the same time. It could mean one person says A. Another person says B. We don´t know if one person described him as A B and C at the same time. Look for something that would make different person from different angels say different things but always describe the same thing.

c) Where is your proof Kohji could name Rum uniquely? Right now the dying message is Carasuma. Doesn´t seem like Renya Karasuma is Rum right now. But we probably have not deciphered the whole message, as we have not included the scissor and what Kohji had in his hands with our dying message right now. I don´t see proof his dying message names Rum. It didn´t even name him in our first dying message ASAKARUM, as we dont know Asaka and Rum this message is like XY, not even X = Y, didn't tell us anything at all to be honest.

d) Why ignore the mirror clue? It's a key part of this case. We can't say if it is relevant to Rum but we can definitely NOT say it is not relevant.

e) This is obviously true.

f) Speculation. We don't know anything about a relationship between Kohji and Rum. We don't know if they even knew each other. And we don't know if Kohji knew his name. I can enter a room without permission. I just open the door. If it is closed I have to break it. For a professional killer a closed door will be no problem. He could open the door, kill Kohji and leave.

g) Speculation. We don't know anything about his social life. We don't know his relationship to Kohji. In particular we don't know if he was his acquaintance. We don't know if he had another reason to be present in the hotel. We don't even know if he was there to kill in the first place. How about retriving sensitive data? Getting caught, fighting and finally kill someone? So many options.


A) Does a secretive second in command, whose name is barely heard in the organization and who is currently on the move not have power to order nearby executives to do his bidding?

B) Again you seemed like typed stuff without reading. I said you can't mistake a strong man's face as an old man's face, or a womanly man's face with a old man's face. If people saw his face, these statements couldn't have been made. Also haibara categorical tells Conan that three descriptions come from three mutually exclusive set of people.

C) How do you know that the dying message is Carasuma??(Where is the proof that Kohji had handeled the mirror? Where is the proof that Kohji was the one who created the message? Where is the proof that Kohji's bathroom tap was opened by Kohji himself? It was kept running, that means the person who opened it didn't close it. So If Kohji was the one open that tap, then Kohji was either got attacked in his bathroom again or died in there. Do you have any proof to conclude that Kohji was attacked once again in the bathroom or his corpse was found there?

It's funny that you rampantly point to stuff as Speculation, but what you currently say is nothing more than speculation, itself.)

D)Read above reasons, I don't know why you ignored the clearly outlined reasons (About the speculative nature of the mirror clue.)

E) Yes and Mirror clue is speculative, so shouldn't it be clear that what is more important??

F) Random Assassins aren't named by their victims. Dying message points to one's killer. Now if Kohji had no means to know who Rum is, how could he and why would he leave a message in the first place? Now Rum isn't a dumbass to start introducing himself before he killed Kohji. Only logical conclusion is, Rum in his social life was known by Kohji. Possibly it was the reason he had to kill Kohji. Kohji had probably seen him going into Amanda's room and in the inquest if Kohji names him by social persona he would have been screwed badly.

G) Was Kohji door being broken down?? (From where did you get the information.)

H) We know everything about his social life if we use logic. Unlike Gin, Rum doesn't hold face to face conversations(if that was the case then three descriptions wouldn't even emerge), he doesn't even make voice calls. Unlike Gin(It's a proof that he can be identified by his face and voice alone, uniquely.) So people hear his voice and see his face in public domain quite regularly.)


A) Just because he has the power doesn't mean he is using it. We only know of Bourbon right now. You said "He is the second in command of BO and has a good amount of executives running errands for him" which is speculation but you wrote it like we can be 100% sure he has many people running around for him, which is wrong.

B) Where did haibara say these people described his face? It is possible to describe someone strong as feminine, it is possible to describe someone feminine as strong etc. All these attributes dont have to be related to his body but could also be related to his way of working. There is no proof nobody has seen his face but you take it as given

"people say conflicting stuff about his description yet all say his one eye is fake. Now an Old man's face can't be a womanly man's face or vice versa. A strong man doesn't have the same face of an old man and vice versa." This is right but nobody said they described his face

"So one thing we can conclude that nobody has seen his face" I don't see any reason for this conclusion.

C) We dont know if the dying message is Carasuma and I didn't said it is. I thought my words were clear enough, sorry. Conan and Yusaku deduced it. Doesn't mean it is true. Right now, for Conan and Yusaku, the dying message is Carasuma. You said "Kohji was in a position to name Rum uniquely, hence the dying message." Where is your proof he could name Rum? As long as we have not deciphered the message we don't know what it is. A hint to the boss, a hint to Rum, a general hint to the bo or whatever. You take it as a fact Kohji could name Rum and did so in his dying message. You dont give any proof of that so all of it is just speculation. I can understand you don't take it as given that Koji has used the mirror for his message, which is a good idea. But saying he named Rum in his dying message or saying he knew Rums name is as much speculation as Kohji not placing the mirror message.

D) You are right. We don't know much about the mirror or how valid it is as proof. That doesn't mean you can ignore it. It is part of the puzzle and should always be taken into consideration. Even if you take a different approach on it.

E) There is no "more important". Both are equal. You can't solve a puzzle if you ignore half of it.

F) "Random Assassins aren't named by their victims. Dying message points to one's killer."

Again you take it as a fact Kohji named Rum. This is speculation on your side. A dying message doesn't need to name a killer. In this case there is a big organisation behind this crime. It makes sence to write a dying message which doesn't point to Rum but to the bo itself or tells us other relevant information about them. There are more options than just name Rum.

This means: There is no proof the dying message points to Rum, there is no proof Kohji knew Rum. You're speculating and you take your speculations as facts. It is possible but it is definitely not for sure.

G) "Was Kohji door being broken down?? (From where did you get the information.)"

"I can enter a room without permission. I just open the door. If it is closed I have to break it. For a professional killer a closed door will be no problem. He could open the door, kill Kohji and leave."

Tell me where I wrote Rum broke into Kohjis room. Could doesnt mean did. It is an option how Rum could have entered the room without knowing Haneda. Rum knowing Haneda is another option. But i don't sell speculations as facts. BTW you don't have to break down a door to get in. A professional has other ways and yes, Rum is definitely a professional. Doesn't mean he can do this but as a professional killer it is not unlikely.

H)
"We know everything about his social life if we use logic. Unlike Gin, Rum doesn't hold face to face conversations(if that was the case then three descriptions wouldn't even emerge), he doesn't even make voice calls. Unlike Gin(It's a proof that he can be identified by his face and voice alone, uniquely.) So people hear his voice and see his face in public domain quite regularly.)"

1) Yes we can conclude Rum avoids face to face conversations.

2) You can describe a charackter and not their appearance. People describing someone different is not even close to be proof that they didn't see him. It is an idea of yours and nothing more. And how do you want to know if someone has a fake eye if you have not seen him? With your argumentation I could take that as proof that everybody had to see him which would be bull... I mean there is the possibility fake eye is a metaphor for someone like Gin (Rum failed his job, Gin doesn't like Rum and doesn't tell him every piece of information -> lost his eye, it's only a fake eye. Again this is only a possibility). But it seems pretty clear by now Rums fake eye is physically.

Feminine, strong and old can be characteristics of him. They don't have to fit his appearance.

Also it is definitely not proof he could be identified by his voice or his look. Again he is a professional. You want to avoid any unnecessary contact to not get caught. These can be and are probably precautions any smart high tier would take. Calling people is way to dangerous. Police could interfere and then your voice is known forever. Same thing happens if he calls spys like Bourbon. It should be obvious why he is not seeing every random BO member. So where does not calling or seeing people proof he is sort of famous / public knows him? Then the boss would also be known in public because he communicates via sms. We don't know if that is the case yet. If Karasuma is the boss he would be known. If he is not then we don't know.

I think you have a wrong idea of what is prooven. You take pieces, combine them how it fits your theories and then take that as prooven. This approach is wrong. I can do this with 5 different ideas with the same pieces of information. Everything you have written is pure speculation. You didn't even provide a single proof for it yet you talk like you have prooven everything. Everything you have written could be true but these are just your ideas with nothing valid backing it up.

If you want to proof something: Tell me what Hanedas message was. Tell me why he could only have named Rum. Tell me who is Rum. Show me that there is no other way to interpret his message. Tell me who used the mirror for a message, why and when. And also what it says if it really is a message. Show proof it could not have been different. As long as you cant do that you are not even close to proof Kohji knew Rum.

Show me why Rum not having face to face contact and having voice conversations has to be because he is known in public. Show me these are more than smart precaussions. Show me he is not just smart and tries to reduce his vulnerability and avoids any risk for him and the bo. Him failing one job is not proof he doesn't try that. It only shows he makes mistakes which is normal. It could even be since that case he is more careful and therefore reduced any unnecessary contact with other people.

Show me why people describing him differently can only be because they have not seen him. Show me how they had to find out about his eye (not just a theorie, real proof of how they found out).

I think nobody can answer these questions as we don't have enough info right now. But without answers to these questions your points will be only ideas.
mtcc
Posts: 33

Re: Rum's profile

Postby mtcc » March 16th, 2018, 3:56 am

what if the description change over the time to fit all three he was a then b and now c
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 283

Re: Rum's profile

Postby Zerozaki4869 » March 16th, 2018, 1:28 pm

haibara4ever wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
haibara4ever wrote:I can't follow your conclusions.

a) First seems obvious. Second is speculation. He gave orders to Bourbon this time, doesn't mean he does that 24/7. Doesn't even mean Rum has any executives. He could work alone and ask for assistance in some cases. He culd do that because he is above anyone we know right now not because they are executives of him.

b) Speculation. There is no proof nobody has seen his face before. We don´t even know if people described him with this attributes at the same time. It could mean one person says A. Another person says B. We don´t know if one person described him as A B and C at the same time. Look for something that would make different person from different angels say different things but always describe the same thing.

c) Where is your proof Kohji could name Rum uniquely? Right now the dying message is Carasuma. Doesn´t seem like Renya Karasuma is Rum right now. But we probably have not deciphered the whole message, as we have not included the scissor and what Kohji had in his hands with our dying message right now. I don´t see proof his dying message names Rum. It didn´t even name him in our first dying message ASAKARUM, as we dont know Asaka and Rum this message is like XY, not even X = Y, didn't tell us anything at all to be honest.

d) Why ignore the mirror clue? It's a key part of this case. We can't say if it is relevant to Rum but we can definitely NOT say it is not relevant.

e) This is obviously true.

f) Speculation. We don't know anything about a relationship between Kohji and Rum. We don't know if they even knew each other. And we don't know if Kohji knew his name. I can enter a room without permission. I just open the door. If it is closed I have to break it. For a professional killer a closed door will be no problem. He could open the door, kill Kohji and leave.

g) Speculation. We don't know anything about his social life. We don't know his relationship to Kohji. In particular we don't know if he was his acquaintance. We don't know if he had another reason to be present in the hotel. We don't even know if he was there to kill in the first place. How about retriving sensitive data? Getting caught, fighting and finally kill someone? So many options.


A) Does a secretive second in command, whose name is barely heard in the organization and who is currently on the move not have power to order nearby executives to do his bidding?

B) Again you seemed like typed stuff without reading. I said you can't mistake a strong man's face as an old man's face, or a womanly man's face with a old man's face. If people saw his face, these statements couldn't have been made. Also haibara categorical tells Conan that three descriptions come from three mutually exclusive set of people.

C) How do you know that the dying message is Carasuma??(Where is the proof that Kohji had handeled the mirror? Where is the proof that Kohji was the one who created the message? Where is the proof that Kohji's bathroom tap was opened by Kohji himself? It was kept running, that means the person who opened it didn't close it. So If Kohji was the one open that tap, then Kohji was either got attacked in his bathroom again or died in there. Do you have any proof to conclude that Kohji was attacked once again in the bathroom or his corpse was found there?

It's funny that you rampantly point to stuff as Speculation, but what you currently say is nothing more than speculation, itself.)

D)Read above reasons, I don't know why you ignored the clearly outlined reasons (About the speculative nature of the mirror clue.)

E) Yes and Mirror clue is speculative, so shouldn't it be clear that what is more important??

F) Random Assassins aren't named by their victims. Dying message points to one's killer. Now if Kohji had no means to know who Rum is, how could he and why would he leave a message in the first place? Now Rum isn't a dumbass to start introducing himself before he killed Kohji. Only logical conclusion is, Rum in his social life was known by Kohji. Possibly it was the reason he had to kill Kohji. Kohji had probably seen him going into Amanda's room and in the inquest if Kohji names him by social persona he would have been screwed badly.

G) Was Kohji door being broken down?? (From where did you get the information.)

H) We know everything about his social life if we use logic. Unlike Gin, Rum doesn't hold face to face conversations(if that was the case then three descriptions wouldn't even emerge), he doesn't even make voice calls. Unlike Gin(It's a proof that he can be identified by his face and voice alone, uniquely.) So people hear his voice and see his face in public domain quite regularly.)


A) Just because he has the power doesn't mean he is using it. We only know of Bourbon right now. You said "He is the second in command of BO and has a good amount of executives running errands for him" which is speculation but you wrote it like we can be 100% sure he has many people running around for him, which is wrong.

B) Where did haibara say these people described his face? It is possible to describe someone strong as feminine, it is possible to describe someone feminine as strong etc. All these attributes dont have to be related to his body but could also be related to his way of working. There is no proof nobody has seen his face but you take it as given

"people say conflicting stuff about his description yet all say his one eye is fake. Now an Old man's face can't be a womanly man's face or vice versa. A strong man doesn't have the same face of an old man and vice versa." This is right but nobody said they described his face

"So one thing we can conclude that nobody has seen his face" I don't see any reason for this conclusion.

C) We dont know if the dying message is Carasuma and I didn't said it is. I thought my words were clear enough, sorry. Conan and Yusaku deduced it. Doesn't mean it is true. Right now, for Conan and Yusaku, the dying message is Carasuma. You said "Kohji was in a position to name Rum uniquely, hence the dying message." Where is your proof he could name Rum? As long as we have not deciphered the message we don't know what it is. A hint to the boss, a hint to Rum, a general hint to the bo or whatever. You take it as a fact Kohji could name Rum and did so in his dying message. You dont give any proof of that so all of it is just speculation. I can understand you don't take it as given that Koji has used the mirror for his message, which is a good idea. But saying he named Rum in his dying message or saying he knew Rums name is as much speculation as Kohji not placing the mirror message.

D) You are right. We don't know much about the mirror or how valid it is as proof. That doesn't mean you can ignore it. It is part of the puzzle and should always be taken into consideration. Even if you take a different approach on it.

E) There is no "more important". Both are equal. You can't solve a puzzle if you ignore half of it.

F) "Random Assassins aren't named by their victims. Dying message points to one's killer."

Again you take it as a fact Kohji named Rum. This is speculation on your side. A dying message doesn't need to name a killer. In this case there is a big organisation behind this crime. It makes sence to write a dying message which doesn't point to Rum but to the bo itself or tells us other relevant information about them. There are more options than just name Rum.

This means: There is no proof the dying message points to Rum, there is no proof Kohji knew Rum. You're speculating and you take your speculations as facts. It is possible but it is definitely not for sure.

G) "Was Kohji door being broken down?? (From where did you get the information.)"

"I can enter a room without permission. I just open the door. If it is closed I have to break it. For a professional killer a closed door will be no problem. He could open the door, kill Kohji and leave."

Tell me where I wrote Rum broke into Kohjis room. Could doesnt mean did. It is an option how Rum could have entered the room without knowing Haneda. Rum knowing Haneda is another option. But i don't sell speculations as facts. BTW you don't have to break down a door to get in. A professional has other ways and yes, Rum is definitely a professional. Doesn't mean he can do this but as a professional killer it is not unlikely.

H)
"We know everything about his social life if we use logic. Unlike Gin, Rum doesn't hold face to face conversations(if that was the case then three descriptions wouldn't even emerge), he doesn't even make voice calls. Unlike Gin(It's a proof that he can be identified by his face and voice alone, uniquely.) So people hear his voice and see his face in public domain quite regularly.)"

1) Yes we can conclude Rum avoids face to face conversations.

2) You can describe a charackter and not their appearance. People describing someone different is not even close to be proof that they didn't see him. It is an idea of yours and nothing more. And how do you want to know if someone has a fake eye if you have not seen him? With your argumentation I could take that as proof that everybody had to see him which would be bull... I mean there is the possibility fake eye is a metaphor for someone like Gin (Rum failed his job, Gin doesn't like Rum and doesn't tell him every piece of information -> lost his eye, it's only a fake eye. Again this is only a possibility). But it seems pretty clear by now Rums fake eye is physically.

Feminine, strong and old can be characteristics of him. They don't have to fit his appearance.

Also it is definitely not proof he could be identified by his voice or his look. Again he is a professional. You want to avoid any unnecessary contact to not get caught. These can be and are probably precautions any smart high tier would take. Calling people is way to dangerous. Police could interfere and then your voice is known forever. Same thing happens if he calls spys like Bourbon. It should be obvious why he is not seeing every random BO member. So where does not calling or seeing people proof he is sort of famous / public knows him? Then the boss would also be known in public because he communicates via sms. We don't know if that is the case yet. If Karasuma is the boss he would be known. If he is not then we don't know.

I think you have a wrong idea of what is prooven. You take pieces, combine them how it fits your theories and then take that as prooven. This approach is wrong. I can do this with 5 different ideas with the same pieces of information. Everything you have written is pure speculation. You didn't even provide a single proof for it yet you talk like you have prooven everything. Everything you have written could be true but these are just your ideas with nothing valid backing it up.

If you want to proof something: Tell me what Hanedas message was. Tell me why he could only have named Rum. Tell me who is Rum. Show me that there is no other way to interpret his message. Tell me who used the mirror for a message, why and when. And also what it says if it really is a message. Show proof it could not have been different. As long as you cant do that you are not even close to proof Kohji knew Rum.

Show me why Rum not having face to face contact and having voice conversations has to be because he is known in public. Show me these are more than smart precaussions. Show me he is not just smart and tries to reduce his vulnerability and avoids any risk for him and the bo. Him failing one job is not proof he doesn't try that. It only shows he makes mistakes which is normal. It could even be since that case he is more careful and therefore reduced any unnecessary contact with other people.

Show me why people describing him differently can only be because they have not seen him. Show me how they had to find out about his eye (not just a theorie, real proof of how they found out).

I think nobody can answer these questions as we don't have enough info right now. But without answers to these questions your points will be only ideas.


If Rum can use Bourbon as an errand boy(the person who is the best investigator of BO) then it's obvious that he has errand boys. If he didn't have them then the language of the message would have been more polite.

The issue here is old man has an old man's face, he doesn't have an womanly man's face. You can't mistake an old man with a strong man or an womanly man, unless you don't see the man clearly or seen his face clearly.
When we see someone's face, we can distinctly identify him as womanly, old or strong. (EG Kuroda, Wakita and Iori.)
Consider the use of kansuke as a Rum model. Conan could fit those identifiers on him only if he discards kansuke's face.

Do you know what, "When I speculate it's part of a puzzle, when you theorise it's an impediment." If you're not going to drop this act then I'll find your replies to be futile.

Well Kohji handled the scissors in a defensive grip and held something in his palm before dying. The marks indicate it, but nothing to indicate the mirror being handled by Kohji. The call is yours.

Again here we have two competing theories a) A talented Shogi player(unblemished character) gets killed. He leaves a dying message, a) He names his killer. b)He names a random and supposedly dead millionaire with genocidal tendencies to be the chief of the very secret organization, which killed him.

Well I find the former to be more likely until I'm being given proof of Haneda's connections with BO. The thing is can you prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting the sun and is located between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter and the teapot can't be seen by any telescope that will be ever made or had been made by mankind?? Now give me a straight answer.

About positive identification, Gin doesn't care about it. But Vermouth does, because she has a big social image and people can easily recognise Sharon/Chris. Boss does it because Boss also is someone who has a similar burden like Vermouth. So does Rum. Avoiding voice calls and face to face conversation means protecting someone's identity from being leaked. If the person sitting in front of Rum had no idea who is this guy other than being the second in command of BO, then Rum has nothing to worry. But still Rum worries. because he must be something/someone else other than being second in command of BO and is sort of popular.

Now tell me, something more, why someone took the object from Haneda's palm and not the mirror?
Tell me where it is stated that haneda's door was lock picked?
Tell me why haneda's body and the mirror wasn't found in the bathroom?
Tell me what was the object which haneda was holding onto?

We don't know these answers, but from what do we know we can deduce the points which I'm making.
dccd
User avatar
Posts: 180

Re: Rum's profile

Postby dccd » March 16th, 2018, 7:50 pm

@haibara
Sharp minded posts.
Welcome btw.

@ Zero
Nice to see a new approach.

But once again you present some points as if theyre the must-be solution.
They arent.

a) We simply dont know.
We dont know if his command to Bourbon is standard or an exception due to the circumstances.
We dont know if Rum works alone or with a partner.
Gin and Vermouth are high ranked as well and did we saw some "errand boys" yet? Not really.
Its possible yes, but so far we are galaxies away from a proof.
And all of the options - working alone/with a partner/with errand boys - are logical.

b) It seems you didnt fully read or understood haibaras point.
Your deductions are only right if its safe that the descriptions are related to Rums face.
We simply dont know if thats the case.
Strong/Feminine/Old can descripe his face/body/behaviour/overall style/quirk.

Furthermore its all about subjective emphasis.
Of course an old face can be seen as feminine and vice versa if the looking person emphasize this aspect.

Furthermore we dont know if those aspects are related to Rum or his body doubles.
Again the likeliness of one option doesnt mean its the right one.

c) It would make no sense if (one of) the message(s) ends up not being Carasuma.
So Yusaku makes a wrong deduction about the message but ends up guessing the boss right?
Does this sound like a probable outcome? No way in hell.

So far the message is related to Carasuma - not Rum. POINT.
The second part of the message (if it is one)(shogi stone) might be related to ANYTHING regarding the bo.

If one claimed that the message is about the boss exactly 0 persons would have agreed.
Here we see how much we can bet on "likeliness" in this aspect.
Again: 0.
So you might repeat your Kohji-Rum-dying-message-claim 100 more times - it wont get more likely.

rest) "Also BO has nothing to do with some random Shogi player."
Yeah... well, he named Carasuma.
So we have to deal with it that he obviously wasnt some random Shogi player.

And you simply might try to answer haibaras questions first instead of asking questions urself again.
Esspecially since your the one making claims.

Furthermore I really wonder what the dying message tells us about "Rums profile" which this thread is about.
Even if its about Rum it tells us absolutely nothing since there are tons of possibilities how Kohji might
have got to know his nickname.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 283

Re: Rum's profile

Postby Zerozaki4869 » March 16th, 2018, 11:33 pm

The thing is the second in command of BO has more responsibilities to share than Gin and vermouth. He has errand boys to do his stuff, that's how an organization works.
Gin orders around Vodka and Kir. While Vermouth and Bourbon investigates stuff like a team, though the latter sometimes keep it secret from the former.

The thing is "DCDD" that if you saw an old man, will you term him as strong or womanly? Or the vice versa? If the observer saw Rum clearly, these kind of stuff won't surface, especially if the observer saw Rum's face. Let's wait for the reveal to see if I'm being proven wrong or right, but I've a good enough faith in my abilities.

Again your idea is like "Well Conan said Asaca=Rum" so Rum must be Asaca, no my boy there are tonnes of cases where exists two dying message(EG the Shizuka hattori's intro case.) and the obviously observable one is fake while the more subtle one is the real. I can use that to say, "History repeating itself, go to hell Carasuma.")

Your argument isn't based on merit, it's based on wishful thinking.
The two competing hypothesis here is a) Kohji named his killer b) Kohji knew a super secretive organization's boss and names him in a dying message,(When it's not proved that he cut the mirror in the first place?)

It's not about Yasaku being correct and so the dying message is Carasuma. The Carasuma can be a totally fake message created by mere manipulation.(The mirror broke, the letters get scattered out due to impact. The person who took he shogi piece/object from Haneda's palm opens the tap and ta-da a bunch of people now believes stuff which is purely speculative.)
Now prove me wrong.

We're yet to know whether Kohji named anyone or not(according to mirror clue) so where is the proof?

Do you see haibara's questions? Those questions are beyond the scope of this thread.

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