Why was Mary shrank?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 296

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 27th, 2018, 7:03 pm

Somebody else attacked Mary in UK and she had to shrink(either forced or tried to commit Harakiri by getting one.) Think of it, Sera from the very first appearance of her in the Manga is locked onto Conan and investigating his suspicious behaviour. Given the fact his loud proclamation of being the Holmes' apprentice during Wimbledon had attracted Sera and Mary's attention. Now why would it, they could have dismissed him as someone playing Holmes. But they didn't, this means they thought there's some connection between the guy they met at the beach in Japan 10 years back.

Now why would they think that this kid is not a fan of Shinichi, rather than Shinichi himself also Mary's quote that, "A antidote exists in Japan." is also quite revealing. This means they first ascertained that an antidote could have been in use and it's in Japan. Given the case I think mary was attacked in UK by a spy of BO for being too nosy about them. As Shuichi's faked death might have unnerved her and she went on to avenge her son only to get APTX-ed. But somebody from MI6 probably nows her condition and will help her once she gets back her original body.
dccd
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Posts: 187

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby dccd » January 27th, 2018, 7:07 pm

Why was she attacked in the UK? Is there atleast one hint indicating this?
Why do you assume she went back to the UK after she fled to Japan?

And Sera/Mary simply recognized Shinichi.
Sera: "Is it possible that someone might shrink? Oh hi there mom."
That simple.

And since Mary hadnt had an antidote yet, how could she take the flight to Japan?
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 296

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 28th, 2018, 1:39 am

dccd wrote:Why was she attacked in the UK? Is there atleast one hint indicating this?
Why do you assume she went back to the UK after she fled to Japan?

And Sera/Mary simply recognized Shinichi.
Sera: "Is it possible that someone might shrink? Oh hi there mom."
That simple.

And since Mary hadnt had an antidote yet, how could she take the flight to Japan?


It's established that Mary and Masumi fled to England.(Masumi's elementary school years passed in Japan and now she speaks Queen's English, likes Cricket over baseball. Still if you don't want you can dwell in that Masumi Sera is secretly the hell girl Enma Ai and Mary is her Obachan assisting her to send people in hell.

Now, let's evaluate your next question, (can you point a single instance before Wimbledon case where involvement of Conan got publicised so much in large stage?) It hasn't. Also those cases were something solved by Sleeping Koguru, standing Asaka, sleeping Sonoko etc. From an outsider's point of view none looks too suspicious.

Now here comes the wimbledon case where a guy proudly proclaims that he's Holmes' apprentice. Now there was a very important guy in Sera's life who said that and the same person made Shuichi laugh. Now a kid after 10 years is saying the same thing who exactly looks like the boy from 10 years ago. Now given the fact, this boy named Edogawa Conan, never came to UK, but a Kudo Shinichi came.
A further scratching reveals that after this boy Edogawa Conan appeared Kudo Shinichi has stopped appearing in the public eye, Mouri Kogoro's performance has increased manifold and all the time Conan is present during the case. Now a person who has seen the effect of Shrinking and knows that Shinichi was targeted with APTX, can easily draw this conclusion. Now there's a chance of an antidote's existence as how else Shinichi could have boarded the flight without faking his passport.(Shinichi is 17 years old, a 7 tyear old can't pose as Shinichi.)

So the Wimbledon episode would be eyeopener for a person who knows APTX shrinks people, Shinichi was APTXed and has evidence from the British high commission that Kudo Shinichi was in UK during that time, a boy looking exactly like Shinichi from 10 years ago is running around and solving the intricate case.

Also when Conan was desperate to visit UK, he suggested a certain thing to AGASA, "Let's fake a passport." but Agasa relented as it would be a crime. Mary has already done it.
Secondly Mary is very fond of Masumi and doesn't want her to be entangled with BO affairs, why would she bring her to Japan?(At that time BO was looking for Akai Shuichi's family, it's fortunate that Amuro was the one to notice Sera, if it was Korn or Chianti Sera would have been 6 feet under.)
Thirdly, Sera's mobile phone has a photo of Mary in her child form. This means she was attacked much before and lastly Sera showed only interest in Conan and now it's revealed that her mission is to get the antidote. Don't forget the rich friend of Sera's dad, might also Know mary's situation and is helping her out.
dccd
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Posts: 187

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby dccd » January 28th, 2018, 12:28 pm

First of all I never doubt that Mary saw Conan at Wimbledon.
Simply read my posts in this thread again.

But it kinda seems that ur under the impression that she had to be there in London to see Wimbledon.
Needless to say, but ur aware of it being televised?

Furthermore its funny how you keep claiming things without the sightest proof or hint towards it.
For example:

It's established that Mary and Masumi fled to England.


- She speaks Queens english -> not a proof or hint
- She likes cricket -> not a proof or hint

So she gotta be in UK to speak english or to like cricket? Not sure if srs.
A hint: Who told you to speak?

Mary has already done it [faking a passport]


Any source for this ?

It really seems like you completely missed the beach case.
They fled from UK to Japan, because of Tsutomu told them to do so.
Now you claim without the slightest form of evidence or hint that they fled RIGHT BACK to UK?
And the photo just tells us absolutely nothing since it couldve been taken at any given point?

So: Not one single hint or proof.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 296

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 28th, 2018, 12:50 pm

dccd wrote:First of all I never doubt that Mary saw Conan at Wimbledon.
Simply read my posts in this thread again.

But it kinda seems that ur under the impression that she had to be there in London to see Wimbledon.
Needless to say, but ur aware of it being televised?

Furthermore its funny how you keep claiming things without the sightest proof or hint towards it.
For example:

It's established that Mary and Masumi fled to England.


- She speaks Queens english -> not a proof or hint
- She likes cricket -> not a proof or hint

So she gotta be in UK to speak english or to like cricket? Not sure if srs.
A hint: Who told you to speak?

Mary has already done it [faking a passport]


Any source for this ?

It really seems like you completely missed the beach case.
They fled from UK to Japan, because of Tsutomu told them to do so.
Now you claim without the slightest form of evidence or hint that they fled RIGHT BACK to UK?
And the photo just tells us absolutely nothing since it couldve been taken at any given point?

So: Not one single hint or proof.


You don't seem to know the beach case at all neither you're aware that to know there weren't any Edogawa Conan travelling to UK from Japan at the time of Wimbledon could only be known if a citizen of UK checks the flight records and high commission office's records to know whether there was any child visa issued under the name Edogawa Conan.

If Mary relocated to Japan when Masumi was in her womb, then why and how Masumi knows to converse in standard British English and likes an English sport which is only played in UK and erstwhile British Empire.

Given the fact that Shuichi started infiltrating BO and after getting his codename, the family moved back to UK, for protection.(That's an easy task)
Given Shuichi's fake death and the Modus operandi of BO, it's evident Mary won't let Sera wander around Japan where his son was assassinated by the same people who erased her husband.
When You say that Mary wasn't able to fly because she lacks an antidote, I just gave a solution, which is probably foreshadowed by Agasa. And given masumi's interest in Conan from the beginning, it's her mission to procure the antidote, so why she needs the antidote , because her mom was attacked, but her mom is very wary of Bo and why would she just come to Japan to get involved in more danger along with her daughter, only if it was the last resort(to search about the antidote) Mary's latest comment also suggest this, she needs her body back to launch the counter attack, so just getting her body back is enough to launch the counter attack, this means the preparations are all done and she just needs the antidote.
dccd
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Posts: 187

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby dccd » January 28th, 2018, 1:27 pm

Ur first sentence has 63 words without an comma.
Its not quite easy to read that.
Im not sure what you wanna point out with the sentence so would you be so kind and
just try to make it shorter and easier to understand? Thx.

How to converse in British english?
My god: Her mother taught her. Who else?
And surprise: Thats possible in Japan too.

Liking an english sport:
What about TV? Internet? Did she has to be at UK to like a sport? Thats ur argument?

"...the family moved back to UK, for protection."
Again a random claim without any sense behind it.

"it's evident Mary won't let Sera wander around Japan where his son was assassinated by the same people who erased her husband. "
Wtf? Did you just missed the last 300 chapters where she has done exactly that?

It seems you making things up again without a single hint or clue
while ur ideas being absolutely contradictory to the current infos.
Im quitting right here.
Have a nice sunday.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 296

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 28th, 2018, 10:39 pm

dccd wrote:Ur first sentence has 63 words without an comma.
Its not quite easy to read that.
Im not sure what you wanna point out with the sentence so would you be so kind and
just try to make it shorter and easier to understand? Thx.

How to converse in British english?
My god: Her mother taught her. Who else?
And surprise: Thats possible in Japan too.

Liking an english sport:
What about TV? Internet? Did she has to be at UK to like a sport? Thats ur argument?

"...the family moved back to UK, for protection."
Again a random claim without any sense behind it.

"it's evident Mary won't let Sera wander around Japan where his son was assassinated by the same people who erased her husband. "
Wtf? Did you just missed the last 300 chapters where she has done exactly that?

It seems you making things up again without a single hint or clue
while ur ideas being absolutely contradictory to the current infos.
Im quitting right here.
Have a nice sunday.


Even if pointed it out(for you) you won't be able to appreciate(Just like I can't appreciate Sakurako is Rum and a crossdreser.)

Just go and read the last panel of chapter 971. Even if that doesn't prove you that Sera does have British influence which gets cultivated by long stays in UK only, then I don't know what will.
The question is this, if Masumi was living her whole life in Japan how she is picking up British mannerisms(It's sakka in japan not Footballo, Cricket?Noni ka? Baseball not Nani ka. In Japan.) Proof enough that Masumi has done most of her schooling in UK and the way she's oblivious to baseball, I would say that she has very recently come to Japan. The main connection that brought her to Conan is Conan's display in UK as Holmes apprentice, but to ensure that there was no Edogawa Conan present in UK at that time, but rather A Shinichi kudo was, you need information from UK high-commission. To get that, one needs to be present in UK.
dccd
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Posts: 187

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby dccd » January 29th, 2018, 10:39 am

Sad that you cant appreciate it.
But it seems that you never even tried to see the logic behind it.
Instead you claimed that I picked her because she likes black tea, which is horrendously wrong.
Anyways, we might continue this in the Rum-Thread.

First of all I never claimed that "Masumi was living her whole life in Japan".
Its obvious that she had british mannerisms since she probably spend her child-years in UK
before she fled (beach case) with Mary to Japan.
The thing is: You claim that "It's established that Mary and Masumi fled to England."

So according to you they fled to Japan (beach case) then back to England (your claim) and then again back to Japan (current status).
Doesnt sound likely to me, but possible though.
Mannerisms -> learned it when she was a child.
And there is no UK high-commission needed in the whole case.

Spoiler:
Mary and Sera watching Wimbledon seeing Conan speaking of "Holmes app"
Sera: *remembering* ... Mom, I met this kid 10 years ago... can this be?
*looking at Mary* Ok... its obviously possible.
Mary: ?
Sera: His name was Shinichi Kudo. *googleing*. Oh, he disappeared according to media.
Mary: 1+1=2. Then go and find him.


That easy.

And lastly: What about 937 ? Her meeting with Shu/Bourbon/Scotch 4 years ago?
It isnt sure where the station is located but I dont see many reasons for those three to be in the UK.

Maybe we should stop this here and go back to the Rum-thread.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Andarer
Posts: 15

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Andarer » January 30th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Just saying, it's been stablished by both sera and conan that she was in the UK for the years before her appearance. Not only she said it was in the USA but then gave hints to conan to make him notice she had been raised in the UK instead, Conan deduced it and that's as much proof as we need.

About Mary traveling to Japan, I don't see the issue. Registering an unregistered kid is easy in Europe, so is faking a passport, considering that the regularization of paperless migrants is a stablished procedure, while in Japan it's illegal. Heck, she could have faked an american passport and use it to obtain a legal British one using her accent for it.

So Sera and Mary traveling to Japan right before meeting Conan and Ran is a stablished fact, not even something that needs to be deduced. And her coming from Britain and not the USA is something Conan figures out on his own so it's stablished aswell.

Also, she was born in Japan and stayed there at least until the beach case. Shuichi went to America 7 years ago, after his father disappeared. Mary moved to Japan when Tutsomu disappeared, and she was pregnant. The beach case explains that.

Edit: reviewing 937, it does look like she was in Japan at the time... Mhmm.

Edit 2: according to Sera, she was in the USA (which we know it's actually UK) for the last 3 years before meeting Conan. It would have made sense since the Sera family was living in Japan to hide from Tutsomu's past and she saw his brother, in the FBI, was there and probably told Mary, who understood the danger was in Japan and fleed to the UK or at least made Masumi flee. She could have stayed to try to support her son and get shrunk in the process, or gone to the UK and returned for revenge after shuichi's death and get shrunk later.
blackmoon
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Posts: 87

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby blackmoon » January 30th, 2018, 8:31 pm

Andarer wrote:Just saying, it's been stablished by both sera and conan that she was in the UK for the years before her appearance. Not only she said it was in the USA but then gave hints to conan to make him notice she had been raised in the UK instead, Conan deduced it and that's as much proof as we need.

About Mary traveling to Japan, I don't see the issue. Registering an unregistered kid is easy in Europe, so is faking a passport, considering that the regularization of paperless migrants is a stablished procedure, while in Japan it's illegal. Heck, she could have faked an american passport and use it to obtain a legal British one using her accent for it.

So Sera and Mary traveling to Japan right before meeting Conan and Ran is a stablished fact, not even something that needs to be deduced. And her coming from Britain and not the USA is something Conan figures out on his own so it's stablished aswell.

Also, she was born in Japan and stayed there at least until the beach case. Shuichi went to America 7 years ago, after his father disappeared. Mary moved to Japan when Tutsomu disappeared, and she was pregnant. The beach case explains that.

Edit: reviewing 937, it does look like she was in Japan at the time... Mhmm.

Edit 2: according to Sera, she was in the USA (which we know it's actually UK) for the last 3 years before meeting Conan. It would have made sense since the Sera family was living in Japan to hide from Tutsomu's past and she saw his brother, in the FBI, was there and probably told Mary, who understood the danger was in Japan and fleed to the UK or at least made Masumi flee. She could have stayed to try to support her son and get shrunk in the process, or gone to the UK and returned for revenge after shuichi's death and get shrunk later.


Thank you for providing the detail summary and bringing the spot-light back on Mary and her family. ;)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
ShadowNeo
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Fear of death is worse than death Itself.

Posts: 30

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby ShadowNeo » January 31st, 2018, 5:03 am

Andarer wrote:Just saying, it's been stablished by both sera and conan that she was in the UK for the years before her appearance. Not only she said it was in the USA but then gave hints to conan to make him notice she had been raised in the UK instead, Conan deduced it and that's as much proof as we need.

About Mary traveling to Japan, I don't see the issue. Registering an unregistered kid is easy in Europe, so is faking a passport, considering that the regularization of paperless migrants is a stablished procedure, while in Japan it's illegal. Heck, she could have faked an american passport and use it to obtain a legal British one using her accent for it.

So Sera and Mary traveling to Japan right before meeting Conan and Ran is a stablished fact, not even something that needs to be deduced. And her coming from Britain and not the USA is something Conan figures out on his own so it's stablished aswell.

Also, she was born in Japan and stayed there at least until the beach case.Shuichi went to America 7 years ago, after his father disappeared. Mary moved to Japan when Tutsomu disappeared, and she was pregnant. The beach case explains that.

Edit: reviewing 937, it does look like she was in Japan at the time... Mhmm.

Edit 2: according to Sera, she was in the USA (which we know it's actually UK) for the last 3 years before meeting Conan. It would have made sense since the Sera family was living in Japan to hide from Tutsomu's past and she saw his brother, in the FBI, was there and probably told Mary, who understood the danger was in Japan and fleed to the UK or at least made Masumi flee. She could have stayed to try to support her son and get shrunk in the process, or gone to the UK and returned for revenge after shuichi's death and get shrunk later.


The part I marked... I don't know if it is just me but (if I understand correctly) you're saying that Shuuichi first went to America 7 years ago from today's timeline, after his father disappeared, but we know that Tsuutomu disappeared before the beach case which was actually 10 years ago so Shuuichi went to America before that, didn't he? Just making sure you're not talking about something else?
"Fear of death is worse than death Itself"
Andarer
Posts: 15

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Andarer » January 31st, 2018, 5:12 am

ShadowNeo wrote:The part I marked... I don't know if it is just me but (if I understand correctly) you're saying that Shuuichi first went to America 7 years ago from today's timeline, after his father disappeared, but we know that Tsuutomu disappeared before the beach case which was actually 10 years ago so Shuuichi went to America before that, didn't he? Just making sure you're not talking about something else?

My bad, he went to America 7 years prior to the Beach case, I worded that very poorly, or flat out wrongly.

Tutsomu disappeared, Mary was pregnant, Shuchi moved to America and Mary with Shukichi to Japan, and 7 years later they met and went to the beach.
ShadowNeo
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Fear of death is worse than death Itself.

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Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby ShadowNeo » January 31st, 2018, 5:37 am

Andarer wrote:
ShadowNeo wrote:Tutsomu disappeared, Mary was pregnant, Shuchi moved to America and Mary with Shukichi to Japan, and 7 years later they met and went to the beach.


Where does it say he went there 7 years prior the beach case?
"Fear of death is worse than death Itself"
Spimer
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Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Spimer » January 31st, 2018, 5:52 am

I guess they deduce 7 years because Masumi was 6-7 years old at the time of the beach case, and Akai remarks that last time he saw Mary she was pregnant but Masumi hadn't been born yet.
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
Andarer
Posts: 15

Re: Why was Mary shrank?

Postby Andarer » January 31st, 2018, 6:11 am

Page 1 of the beach case, he says he's been separated for 7 years...

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