How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 183

How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby Zerozaki4869 » December 3rd, 2017, 10:13 am

The Kendo tournament case was the best case of this year, till now. I've come across several points about that case which can give a better insight in Gosho's world of mystery.

1) Firstly the testimony of a blind man, which initially screwed-up the investigation. Like the criminal said stuff about the box-cutter. Despite being an honest law abiding citizen he didn't mention that he heard the stuff before he heard the groan at the very beginning. But otherwise his testimony ensured that people in the restroom are the suspects and criminal is one of them.

2) The issue of Katta shirts, double meaning. But being a fair guy Gosho gave the hint by using the term cutter yatches. So Gosho will give hints for his impending misdirection. Also the primed us by using box-cutter that we thought it was the weapon.

3) Here the culprit just lied that how and why did he kill the victim while the innocent suspects lied on everything else apart from the question about killing the victim.

4) From the testimony of the blind witness we get that the killer was the first one who got into the restroom. So either the lady or the first man to get into the bathroom is the killer. The killer disposed off the dougi armour and then got rid of the weapon. So there was the thud and then the rasping sound. Now the two different persons brought-up the two separate sounds.Apart from this the regular issue of confirmation bias did play a part, we forgot to look closely towards the testimonies regarding the sounds. The young man didn't hear the unloading of the armour, so he just said affirmatively after the other two elaborated on it. Similar thing was with the rasping sound also, the woman didn't hear it. So clearly neither of them would be the culprit, cause the culprit would have heard the both sounds clearly, and this very line cleared the two suspects.

So in Rum arc Gosho will misdirect us(Mirror clue instead of stuff in Kohji's palm)
Prime us in thinking only three people are Rum suspects(Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi)
Make Rum a clear and honest person who other than saying that he's Rum will be honest with everything else and Rum suspects will lie top to bottom.
and Hotta's info has to treated like the way the blind man's info was used. Using a hand mirror doesn't make Asaka woman neither it a hand mirror using woman becomes Asaka.
DCUniverseAficionado
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Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » December 3rd, 2017, 11:28 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:The Kendo tournament case was the best case of this year, till now. I've come across several points about that case which can give a better insight in Gosho's world of mystery.

1) Firstly the testimony of a blind man, which initially screwed-up the investigation. Like the criminal said stuff about the box-cutter. Despite being an honest law abiding citizen he didn't mention that he heard the stuff before he heard the groan at the very beginning. But otherwise his testimony ensured that people in the restroom are the suspects and criminal is one of them.

2) The issue of Katta shirts, double meaning. But being a fair guy Gosho gave the hint by using the term cutter yatches. So Gosho will give hints for his impending misdirection. Also the primed us by using box-cutter that we thought it was the weapon.

3) Here the culprit just lied that how and why did he kill the victim while the innocent suspects lied on everything else apart from the question about killing the victim.

4) From the testimony of the blind witness we get that the killer was the first one who got into the restroom. So either the lady or the first man to get into the bathroom is the killer. The killer disposed off the dougi armour and then got rid of the weapon. So there was the thud and then the rasping sound. Now the two different persons brought-up the two separate sounds.Apart from this the regular issue of confirmation bias did play a part, we forgot to look closely towards the testimonies regarding the sounds. The young man didn't hear the unloading of the armour, so he just said affirmatively after the other two elaborated on it. Similar thing was with the rasping sound also, the woman didn't hear it. So clearly neither of them would be the culprit, cause the culprit would have heard the both sounds clearly, and this very line cleared the two suspects.

So in Rum arc Gosho will misdirect us(Mirror clue instead of stuff in Kohji's palm)
Prime us in thinking only three people are Rum suspects(Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi)
Make Rum a clear and honest person who other than saying that he's Rum will be honest with everything else and Rum suspects will lie top to bottom.
and Hotta's info has to treated like the way the blind man's info was used. Using a hand mirror doesn't make Asaka woman neither it a hand mirror using woman becomes Asaka.


This all sounds right to me.

Anyone got any counterpoints they'd like to put forth?
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 3rd, 2017, 11:43 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:and Hotta's info has to treated like the way the blind man's info was used. Using a hand mirror doesn't make Asaka woman neither it a hand mirror using woman becomes Asaka.


This all sounds right to me.

Anyone got any counterpoints they'd like to put forth?
other than the bolded part, the rest looks alright.
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dccd
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Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby dccd » December 3rd, 2017, 11:52 am

"Make Rum a clear and honest person..."
So who fits this criteria?

Anyways,
is there any in-manga-hint or sth to take exactly this case as an analogy to the whole arc?
Other than "its the 25years/anniversary/xxx-case".

Im not denying that this might be an analogy,
I just want to know why one chose exactly this case.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Absenta
Posts: 47

Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby Absenta » December 3rd, 2017, 12:42 pm

dccd wrote:"Make Rum a clear and honest person..."
So who fits this criteria?

Anyways,
is there any in-manga-hint or sth to take exactly this case as an analogy to the whole arc?
Other than "its the 25years/anniversary/xxx-case".

Im not denying that this might be an analogy,
I just want to know why one chose exactly this case.


Chikara Katsutama
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 183

Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby Zerozaki4869 » December 3rd, 2017, 9:31 pm

Hotta Gaito's testimony puts forth, that someone was seen using a hand-mirror was supposed to be Asaka. A separate assumption was Asaka was a woman. Now there are two ways to look at it. Hand-mirror was used by Asaka>>Asaka has to be a woman; or A handmirror was retrieved from the crimescene>>Criminal is a woman>>Asaka is the most logical suspect(if Rum's involvement is not known)>>Asaka the woman who killed Kohji. But both these two line of reasoning are irrational as they both rely on assumptions which aren't proved till now. Now just like the Kendo case Gosho is making a illusive box-cutter(Asaka the mysterious damsel) but he has also given a hint of cutter yatch(Asaka's photo where only the fingers of Asaka's right hand is clearly visible.) Now why did Gosho went to the length to create a photo of fingers?? The hint is Asaka's fingers, he's saying look for the 2d:4d ratio(He also has used the kid case to inform us of this scientific trait.) If he was giving an ambiguous picture of Asaka why did he make the fingers clear and visible??
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 183

Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby Zerozaki4869 » December 3rd, 2017, 9:34 pm

The only reason to use this case was that this was had been the best case of this year. So if Gosho is making Rum arc an interesting stuff then the best cases of this arc will serve on how he plays his game.
dccd
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Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby dccd » December 3rd, 2017, 10:08 pm

Well... which kind of photo would you take to show some details (using hand, bound ponytail) but this one?
I think there arent much examples of how a "hint-photo" should look like but as he actually did.

Anyways, maybe he simply wanted to tell us that Asaka is right-handed (same as Rumi).
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 183

Re: How Kendo Tournament Murder case can help in Navigating Rum arc

Postby Zerozaki4869 » December 4th, 2017, 9:25 am

The thing is ponytail is not confirmed as it can be flowing long hair. Also a ponytail isn't a distinguishing feature at all. The thing is hints are such that people can grasp it and deduce stuff without any ambiguity. Other than Asaka's right hand and fingers of the same hand everything else is foggy and ambiguous. So now you can't deny that ponytail is more prominent in the photo than the fingers of Asaka. Also just the palm of Asaka grabbing the lens would have been enough to convey Asaka's right-handedness. Also there's a kid case where Gosho had used 2d:4d ratio.
Given these hints and a clear measurement of Asaka's index and ring finger, Gosho is hinting to that. A hint is not a hint if it's ambiguous enough to spot in the first place. So if Gosho went through the trouble to make Asaka's Index finger and ring finger comparable to us then it has a purpose.

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