Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X (manga on break until 11.29.17)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Detective Magic
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Detective Magic » October 13th, 2017, 12:25 pm

Well, I know it will sound very offensive and maybe as if I wanted to attack you but it's not meant to be this way.
So if you - especially @Kor and @Haibara & Aika ryona - think the series is so bad, it doesn't have any mysteries and the pacing is horrible, and there's nothing good in it (that's what I'm assuming from your posts, if I'm wrong please correct me). Why do you still read/watch it? You could just leave it alone for the fans who actually enjoy it. Or you could do what I am doing with some TV series, once a few weeks check what's going on.
As I said, I don't want you to get angry because of this, it's just what I've been thinking for the past days.
annidaulya
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby annidaulya » October 13th, 2017, 12:31 pm

This is really the first time I want to out from my "silent reader" title and write in this forum.
I consider myself as Conan loyal-fans, like most of you here.

What I want really to say is I dislike such a unimportant discussion which out of the topic thread.
Read some of you left comment such as doubtful feeling towards Gosho or this manga (and more) was weird to me.
Pretty please make a good thread to read, and it is about the topic (or chapter itself).

Well, perhaps it's only me.
I'm sorry for saying this tho.
But I really like this forum for long time now and always excited to read the discussion, but not with the doubt or negativity toward how the story will goes. Regards.
kkuuddoo
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby kkuuddoo » October 13th, 2017, 1:49 pm

annidaulya wrote:This is really the first time I want to out from my "silent reader" title and write in this forum.
I consider myself as Conan loyal-fans, like most of you here.

What I want really to say is I dislike such a unimportant discussion which out of the topic thread.
Read some of you left comment such as doubtful feeling towards Gosho or this manga (and more) was weird to me.
Pretty please make a good thread to read, and it is about the topic (or chapter itself).

Well, perhaps it's only me.
I'm sorry for saying this tho.
But I really like this forum for long time now and always excited to read the discussion, but not with the doubt or negativity toward how the story will goes. Regards.


I have to say, I feel the same way.
I might consider myself one of the biggest fans of Conan, and I am rarely ever disappointed by what Gosho gives us, I am usually disappointed when there is long breaks and boring Original anime episodes.

When I came to this forum, I was really happy, because there was a lot of good discussions, and A lot of Conan fans that I don't find anywhere around me. I enjoyed reading all the posts and threads, yet, as I read more and more, I start to feel a lot of negativity, which is mostly surprising.
For Example:
A new chapter comes out, and I am screaming in happiness, I love the file despite not much happening towards the plot, I like those little things that make Conan an amazing series.
Then I come to the forum and c-box and see the opposite, a lot of negativity, and sometimes hate, and I become not as excited as I once was, the negative comment start to effect my interest in the file. Thats why I start to take sometime before I come here, I read the file and get all excited, then a day later I come and see the discussions that are happening here and try to join in. And even though sometime I lose some of my interest as I read some posts, I regain it back when I reread the file, so its all good.

* Don't get me wrong, I still love coming here and seeing the interesting deductions and discussions, yet the negativity is somehow ruining my enjoyment to some extent.
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S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 13th, 2017, 2:12 pm

You should have seen what negativity caused in another forum, during YGO ARC-V Second Season. THAT really wasn't pretty. (And that Season wasn't actually so bad, the third one did really suck, thought.
And it actually caused some leftover paranoia in the newest series discussion, besides this one actually doing very well..)
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 13th, 2017, 2:19 pm

Detective Magic wrote:Well, I know it will sound very offensive and maybe as if I wanted to attack you but it's not meant to be this way.
So if you - especially @Kor and @Haibara & Aika ryona - think the series is so bad, it doesn't have any mysteries and the pacing is horrible, and there's nothing good in it (that's what I'm assuming from your posts, if I'm wrong please correct me). Why do you still read/watch it? You could just leave it alone for the fans who actually enjoy it. Or you could do what I am doing with some TV series, once a few weeks check what's going on.
As I said, I don't want you to get angry because of this, it's just what I've been thinking for the past days.



No don't worry, and it is understandable why you said this. I admit you because you said these things with being a Haibara Fan such as me. But for us this is who we feel now from Conan. I do not care about manga, and don't like it at all. I only see Anime, and only love Animes. I do love Conan From 20 years when I saw it when I was born which means from 1994. Secondly, I do love Conan From episode 1 until 450, and from movie 1 until Movie 10; so when I say these things because I really really really really really miss that Conan.

Look , it is not a fair to any say the good points. this is a discussion; so you have to expect that the there are lovers, lovers with have some unhappy points about the anime, and haters. I liked the Kor Final Answer; so I decided to right more
Last edited by Haibara & Aika ryona on October 13th, 2017, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kor » October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

Detective Magic wrote:Well, I know it will sound very offensive and maybe as if I wanted to attack you but it's not meant to be this way.


No problem there, mate. Everything's cool!

Detective Magic wrote:So if you - especially @Kor and @Haibara & Aika ryona


I'm Kor, so my only response is just what Kor thinks.

Detective Magic wrote:think the series is so bad


I don't believe it's "so bad". As I tried to explain in my post. Fiction writing is art, there's nuance to consider.

it doesn't have any mysteries


It most certainly does have mysteries. It's too bad some of them aren't tackled more often, though!

pacing is horrible


... yeah sorry, the pacing is horrible. If there's someone who thinks otherwise... good for them, I suppose.

and there's nothing good in it (that's what I'm assuming from your posts, if I'm wrong please correct me)


I shall correct you, then. I think you are entirely misconstruing my text and are trying to apply some blanket statements onto it. My main intention behind these posts was to show what the series is. If my interpretation of what the nature of the series is and its writing sounds extremely negative for you, welp... maybe I'm simply at fault for not framing where I'm coming from more properly. I'd welcome you to reread my posts under somewhat different lenses and tell me (probably via PM) if you still feel the same as above.
On the other hand I don't think you should assume there's a good vs bad dichotomy going on there either.

I certainly never said there's nothing good in it. There's lot of good. Like that case that Heiji shows up at Agasa's place so he and Conan go and investigate Jodie? That was some good stuff! Especially that point in the end of the ep in which Heiji is like "if any other suspicious people show up call me". Too bad that at this point Conan and Heiji don't seem to remember that line, as there are tons of suspicious people around, yet Conan hasn't called Heiji yet about it, and meanwhile Heiji is stuck in a really weird loop of not being able to confess and also with some chick from Kyoto who has the hots for him and it's completely meaningless cause of course we know he'll end up with Kazuha.
(Yes, I'm aware I started from a positive point and ended on a critical point. Sort of was my intention here).

Why do you still read/watch it? You could just leave it alone for the fans who actually enjoy it.


But... this is such a weird thing to say. This sort of implies that you don't wish there to be any form of discussion about the series that isn't positive. Should only people who enjoy every possible second of a Thing be allowed to talk about Thing? Should we not have discussions about the nature of the series, or Gosho's storytelling abilities or his prowess as a writer?

Let me rehash again why I entered this discussion in the first place (if I have to do so for the 3nd time, I suppose my intention got pretty jumbled, but oh well!):
Some people said that this series is like a puzzle. I wanted to explain why I don't think that is the case and that perhaps you're mistaking the series for something that it isn't. Following that, we went into a bit more specifics. Now, instead of you coming up with counter points why you think that the pacing is good (for example), or that the series is actually like a puzzle (another example), or that Gosho is actually a superb storyteller, your talking point is basically along the lines of "you don't enjoy it, why do you watch it". This type of question completely devolves the discussion. Instead of talking about the fiction, about the art, you're diverting the subject of discussion to Kor (and that other user who isn't Kor). I don't think that type of thing should happen to be perfectly honest. I don't want any discussion about a piece of art to devolve and be about Kor :'( (or any individual fan you can think of. Kor's just an example here. Also Apologies if it was cringe worthy to see me refer to myself in 3rd person. It hurt me more than you... probably.)

Or you could do what I am doing with some TV series, once a few weeks check what's going on.


I generally try to refrain from telling people how they should spend their time (or how to watch stuff), so... you do you, I do I... me... yes. :V

(there's also some joke in here about checking Conan once a few weeks considering the amount of breaks, but I shall leave that unsaid :-X )

annidaulya wrote:This is really the first time I want to out from my "silent reader" title and write in this forum.
I consider myself as Conan loyal-fans, like most of you here.

What I want really to say is I dislike such a unimportant discussion which out of the topic thread.
Read some of you left comment such as doubtful feeling towards Gosho or this manga (and more) was weird to me.
Pretty please make a good thread to read, and it is about the topic (or chapter itself).

Well, perhaps it's only me.
I'm sorry for saying this tho.
But I really like this forum for long time now and always excited to read the discussion, but not with the doubt or negativity toward how the story will goes. Regards.


'sup! Nice to meet and glad to have you here.

While I do not share your opinion that this discussion is unimportant or that it's negative, I can see where you're coming from and that it did go off topic for this thread. We did have in the past such discussions in Case Discussion Threads, and otherwise we're in the middle of a really long break so there isn't much to talk about until the break ends anyway. Still, I don't mind ending it here.

That said, I don't think it should feel weird for you to see opinions about Gosho and the manga that aren't necessarily positive.
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S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 13th, 2017, 3:12 pm

For me, it is a puzzle. Not a perfect one, but still.
(It's kinda more like superslow chess, were not every moves succeeds.)

Of course nothing is super planned.

For example, we can agree, that the Eisuke storyline kinda failed, because he wouldn't been written out, if it wasn't the case. Masumi is kinda a second try, but better. (Plus, not a bland storyline copy, because of the Mary thingy.)

@Momoji: Well, the latest interview translation actually revealed her purpose. Not everyone like this , but I can personally live with it. (Heck, Heji and Kazuha having a humorus "cockblocks" (sorry of this term, butI couldn't find one that fits better.) is a new Gosho running gag anyway... (Zombies, The Special Parachuting Squad..)

Yeah, the current breaks are painful.

But at least Gosho apologized for them.
Detective Magic
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Detective Magic » October 13th, 2017, 5:57 pm

Well, I guess you're all right. (I won't quote all the answers because it would take too long)
For one thank you Haibara & Aika ryona and Kor for not getting mad at me.
Second, sorry Kor for misunderstanding you. I will still hold on to some of my opinions, but I think I understand your reasons a bit better now. However I agree with annindaulya that there are very few positive comments about DC, from my point of view. But ok, I guess there are lovers and haters and I just have to deal with it.
And maybe the most important thing: this discussion kind of is off topic, but since there has been quite a lot of it lately, maybe someone (who actually knows how and where to do this) can create a thread about this? I'm not sure whether it should be in story discussion or general discussion. If nobody will, then I'll do it but I just don't want to mess anything up.
S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 13th, 2017, 6:18 pm

@Haibara & Aika ryona:

If you only watch the anime, that actually explains alot. Anime, based on ongoing Manga series always had to fill up with AO stuff, which can actually increase fatigue even more.

One of the worse cases here, if I remember correctly, was Naruto. (The fandom was REALLY pissed because of it..)

Personally, I only read the Manga, because I have no time for the Anime. (But I sometimes peak into it, to see how cases that I like got adapted.)

As for a topic for this:

Not sure if it would be helpful, it actually could increase toxic behavior. (Again, ARC-V..)

Plus, it's only two weeks until the break is over, anyway.
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 13th, 2017, 6:22 pm

Detective Magic wrote:Well, I guess you're all right. (I won't quote all the answers because it would take too long)
For one thank you Haibara & Aika ryona and Kor for not getting mad at me.
Second, sorry Kor for misunderstanding you. I will still hold on to some of my opinions, but I think I understand your reasons a bit better now. However I agree with annindaulya that there are very few positive comments about DC, from my point of view. But ok, I guess there are lovers and haters and I just have to deal with it.
And maybe the most important thing: this discussion kind of is off topic, but since there has been quite a lot of it lately, maybe someone (who actually knows how and where to do this) can create a thread about this? I'm not sure whether it should be in story discussion or general discussion. If nobody will, then I'll do it but I just don't want to mess anything up.


I always feel happy from Haibara's Fans no matter what the problems, or what happens ; because I always with Haibara, and her family. I am happy that she still had family which I mean Sera, and her Mother. I want her to had an episode in England her mother's country. Anyway, that fine as long as you understand our opinion now.

When I was child, I always saw Conan, and Anime with my mother Language Arabic, without think about there are Manga, and not Manga, and I will not think about these things also now. I only care about the anime. I do hate Manga because they are boring, and I can't understand pictures. if the pictures are in magazine story with only two or three pages, then maybe it will be fine, but the book is contain a lot of pages with a lot of pictures then It will be boring, and I become unable to understanding it, but with Episodes Anime, then it is so easily to follow, and much interesting.

About the thread, why you only misunderstanding Kor, you also misunderstanding me; so why? I am joking her, and anyway, I don't think that all of conan's fans who are against us me, and whoever say why they hate what happened now in conan are should fight us; because we all have our ways in following, and understand the things. Everyone think that what Bourbon had done is right, but to me, I am not, and everything he made was awful, and from what I got, then even if the writer tried his best to make him as a good person in the movie 22, then I will not believe the writer, and will hate him more, and more; because I saw what he made all these times.

I hope that you will answer me; because mostly the people don't answer, and only answer the other

S.Vineyard wrote:@Haibara & Aika ryona:

If you only watch the anime, that actually explains alot. Anime, based on ongoing Manga series always had to fill up with AO stuff, which can actually increase fatigue even more.

One of the worse cases here, if I remember correctly, was Naruto. (The fandom was REALLY pissed because of it..)

Personally, I only read the Manga, because I have no time for the Anime. (But I sometimes peak into it, to see how cases that I like got adapted.)

As for a topic for this:

Not sure if it would be helpful, it actually could increase toxic behavior. (Again, ARC-V..)

Plus, it's only two weeks until the break is over, anyway.



Why always my opinions are Toxic which I don't know? why always the Good points are allowed, and the bad point are not allowed? This thing only works with elders, not with youth people.

Secondly, I told to you about Manga. I always saw Conan, and Anime with my mother Language Arabic, without think about there are Manga, and not Manga, and I will not think about these things also now. I only care about the anime. I do hate Manga because they are boring, and I can't understand pictures. if the pictures are in magazine story with only two or three pages, then maybe it will be fine, but the book is contain a lot of pages with a lot of pictures then It will be boring, and I become unable to understanding it, but with Episodes Anime, then it is so easily to follow, and much interesting.

I never thought that BO are only threats who made conan no, I always loved the episodes in episode from 1 to 450. Mostly, these episodes was really interesting, and I never ever thought about them as manga or aqua, or team plasma
S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 13th, 2017, 6:28 pm

@Haibara & Aika ryona:

We really don't know about M22 that much yet, so it's kinda too early to guess how he will be portrayed.

(I must admit that I actually have isses with some of the movies myself, specially Nr. 15 and 18. Oh and the last 15-20 min. of M17.)
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 13th, 2017, 6:33 pm

S.Vineyard wrote:@Haibara & Aika ryona:

We really don't know about M22 that much yet, so it's kinda too early to guess how he will be portrayed.

(I must admit that I actually have isses with some of the movies myself, specially Nr. 15 and 18. Oh and the last 15-20 min. of M17.)



maybe, I should do write the things that I wrote in Movie 20 thread that been closed. From the first time, I didn't saw any thing right that bourbon had made. He was the reason for the explosion of the train. He want to kill Haibara for no reason. He was one of the reasons of why the Jodie's Friend the teacher who was in the hospital now, even if you told to me that the one who hit her, and throw her is the one of the student's father, but if you ask me then I will tell, that he also didn't care. No, also he put an another plan about doing accident to her, is that so? I saw the episode; so now one can tell me. Thanks goodness that both Kamel, and Jodie didn't die in the Scarlet Episode. He targeted Haibara before, and now Akai, and both for noo reason; so next time who the one that he will target for no reason.

You can throw the all things in the up; because the thread about the movie; so I will give you an event in this movie. The Fighting Between him, and Akai were the most stupid event in the Movie; because there is no point from it, and Thanks to this stupid person, then Akai even if I hate Akai, but still he was in Danger.

So how can I believe the new movie
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 13th, 2017, 10:27 pm

Kor wrote:I certainly don't like to give non-answers to questions, but again, this isn't a question I think I want to answer. Why narrow down an opinion to but a single word? Fiction writing is art, there are nuances.


Just in case you would rather not get into a nuanced description of 1999–2003 DC and of 2007–present DC. Do you want to get into that? If so, then by all means, have at it!... ;D ...unless you think this just keeps the already-derailed thread still off-the-rails:

Kor wrote:...it did go off topic for this thread. We did have in the past such discussions in Case Discussion Threads, and otherwise we're in the middle of a really long break so there isn't much to talk about until the break ends anyway. Still, I don't mind ending it here.


In that case, would you mind getting into those nuanced descriptions of 1999–2003 DC and of 2007–present DC in PM?

Kor wrote:...between Haibara's introduction to the Pisco case, can you point at an instance that feels like we moved from one point to another point?
The plot is always there, it's just that in this series, it may stand in its place for a whole lot of time. Until Vermouth shows up, though, there's no real focus and it's just random events occurring from time to time. I suppose when Haibara shows up, it certainly freshens up the series and serves as a more constant reminder for the presence of the organization, but it didn't exactly progress anything until that Pisco case.


That's certainly true.

Kor wrote:The same problems that plagued the Bourbon stuff are still around, and the storytelling is still roughly the same. We got the new characters faster this time around, but they're all very uninteresting. The Akais are still around and I'm still not convinced Gosho had a real plan about Sera and co when he first brought them in. But all in all, it's just really more of the same.
The construction of the mystery might be worse, though, cause 100+ chapters in, we really don't have enough clues yet, and the "villain" hasn't done anything (in the present), to the point of some people suggesting the idea that Rum (or the character meant to be Rum) hasn't even been introduced yet. (I'd like to hope it's not true, of course).


Oh, so it's just as bad... except for mystery construction.

I just thought even more of a focus on the non-communicative Akai family in the Rum arc may make it worse than the Bourbon arc, IYO.

Kor wrote:There's lot of good. Like that case that Heiji shows up at Agasa's place so he and Conan go and investigate Jodie? That was some good stuff! Especially that point in the end of the ep in which Heiji is like "if any other suspicious people show up call me". Too bad that at this point Conan and Heiji don't seem to remember that line, as there are tons of suspicious people around, yet Conan hasn't called Heiji yet about it, and meanwhile Heiji is stuck in a really weird loop of not being able to confess and also with some chick from Kyoto who has the hots for him and it's completely meaningless cause of course we know he'll end up with Kazuha.
(Yes, I'm aware I started from a positive point and ended on a critical point. Sort of was my intention here).


Has there been any case since the end of the Vermouth arc (or since the beginning of the Bourbon arc) that you thought was just as good as 341–343/277–278?

As in, Gosho had a good thing going, but ended up wasting it by waiting too long?

Kor wrote:Some people said that this series is like a puzzle. I wanted to explain why I don't think that is the case and that perhaps you're mistaking the series for something that it isn't. Following that, we went into a bit more specifics. Now, instead of you coming up with counter points why you think that the pacing is good (for example), or that the series is actually like a puzzle (another example), or that Gosho is actually a superb storyteller, your talking point is basically along the lines of "you don't enjoy it, why do you watch it". This type of question completely devolves the discussion. Instead of talking about the fiction, about the art, you're diverting the subject of discussion to Kor (and that other user who isn't Kor). I don't think that type of thing should happen to be perfectly honest. I don't want any discussion about a piece of art to devolve and be about Kor :'(


I don't contest your critical assertions. Keep coming with them, I (now—admittedly upon self-reflection—at least) say.

But here's the thing—I know and acknowledge these flaws, and yet still love this series. I want to see where this all goes, with the story and characters. For you, on the other hand, these flaws seem to be quite the handicap on your enjoyment of DC. I, too, would like it to meet the level/realize the potential you want it to—such as a tighter focus, and better mystery storytelling—but as it is, now? I'll take it.

Yes, I have a lower enjoyment/interest-attracting threshold than pretty much everyone—I also did, indeed, make the conversation about you, on at least one prior occasion. But I know why I did, now—I was discouraged by the thought you weren't enjoying the series, or enjoying following it (that you were forcing yourself through it out of a sense of obligation). I had to learn that passion/love/care comes in many forms and tones, and how to better react to that more critical tone so as not to come off as a mindless zealot. I hope I'm doing better at it, now, than I was in April 2016—if I'm not, then by all means let me know.
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S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 14th, 2017, 3:35 am

Imo, the Vermouth Arc is holded up a little too high.

Remember that it came out in back in 2003, when the Conan communitys and Wiki Sources wern't that elaborated. (I remember actually the fan site, were I got the spoiler from and boy was it primitive.)

Chek once said she actually mostly solved the stuff back then, before the conclusion. Who knows how certain "surprises" would have played out with today communication...
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 14th, 2017, 6:35 am

S.Vineyard wrote:Imo, the Vermouth Arc is holded up a little too high.

Remember that it came out in back in 2003, when the Conan communitys and Wiki Sources wern't that elaborated. (I remember actually the fan site, were I got the spoiler from and boy was it primitive.)

Chek once said she actually mostly solved the stuff back then, before the conclusion. Who knows how certain "surprises" would have played out with today communication...



Can you explain more about whay do you mean here? Also, Are you talking with me, or with Kor

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