Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Elexid
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Elexid » December 13th, 2017, 7:18 pm

A big spoiler with more questions.

Spoiler:
First of all, I don't know why people are freaking out because of Aoyama's revealing to Karasuma Renya as BO (original/previous) boss. It came in the right time. Actually, revealing him is opening more doors than closing and would put more mysteries out there in the story. Each one now has a different theory than the other and mostly agree on small parts.

Looking back at Karasuma Renya's case, All I can see is someone stupid who couldn't find out his mother's treasure and had to get help from some detectives to solve it for him. The BO is known to have some smart people in it. (at least smarter than random detectives to come up with and killing them one by one.) If so, why didn't he use the help of his ORG. and figure it out. Also, if he's alive, why did he abandon the mansion, when it's also known that BO don't leave any traces behind them. And if he's dead, why didn't his members blow up that mansion immediately after he died instead of letting it get sold publicly? Everything isn't making any sense at this point.

Something else I have been wondering about is, (according to Kohji) why is ASACA RUM's name completing the BO boss's name? What's his connection with him (if he's dead)? Was Kohji trying to reveal both of them (RUM and Karasuma)? Or does that prove somehow Karasuma Renya is still alive? (Or otherwise why would Kohji hint them with a name of a "dead" person, that wouldn't benefit them, in his "dying message"? Or is that name referring/leading to something/someone else other than Karasuma himself?)

All I can see is that Aoyama took a smart step here in making progress with the story. Well, some people might say he revealed the biggest mystery in the story and I can tell you he only revealed a small part of it.
Also, We are at the end of the Arc of the closest one to the boss, so in my opinion, it's only natural to do so when you have a manga that big with a lot of different stories inside and other mysteries away from the BO to find out. Just realizing that the manga is entering its 24th year, gives him every single right to reveal him lol.

**P.S: I would put Aoyama's health in priority. I hope he gets well soon.**
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » December 14th, 2017, 1:03 am

Elexid wrote:A big spoiler with more questions.

Spoiler:
First of all, I don't know why people are freaking out because of Aoyama's revealing to Karasuma Renya as BO (original/previous) boss. It came in the right time. Actually, revealing him is opening more doors than closing and would put more mysteries out there in the story. Each one now has a different theory than the other and mostly agree on small parts.

Looking back at Karasuma Renya's case, All I can see is someone stupid who couldn't find out his mother's treasure and had to get help from some detectives to solve it for him. The BO is known to have some smart people in it. (at least smarter than random detectives to come up with and killing them one by one.) If so, why didn't he use the help of his ORG. and figure it out. Also, if he's alive, why did he abandon the mansion, when it's also known that BO don't leave any traces behind them. And if he's dead, why didn't his members blow up that mansion immediately after he died instead of letting it get sold publicly? Everything isn't making any sense at this point.

Something else I have been wondering about is, (according to Kohji) why is ASACA RUM's name completing the BO boss's name? What's his connection with him (if he's dead)? Was Kohji trying to reveal both of them (RUM and Karasuma)? Or does that prove somehow Karasuma Renya is still alive? (Or otherwise why would Kohji hint them with a name of a "dead" person, that wouldn't benefit them, in his "dying message"? Or is that name referring/leading to something/someone else other than Karasuma himself?)

All I can see is that Aoyama took a smart step here in making progress with the story. Well, some people might say he revealed the biggest mystery in the story and I can tell you he only revealed a small part of it.
Also, We are at the end of the Arc of the closest one to the boss, so in my opinion, it's only natural to do so when you have a manga that big with a lot of different stories inside and other mysteries away from the BO to find out. Just realizing that the manga is entering its 24th year, gives him every single right to reveal him lol.

**P.S: I would put Aoyama's health in priority. I hope he gets well soon.**


Spoiler:
I agree that there's still much to be told/revealed.

But even just the original boss (to say nothing of whether he's still alive and/or still the boss) being revealed (and the reveal of, presumably, the family who founded the BO, or, at least, the reveal of one of the main BO families) is no small deal, either. At the very least, this is a major pointer towards the ultimate mystery.

Gosho himself described this as a turn of fate in that video in which he put the finishing touches on the "Carasuma" double page spread.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby saorin » December 14th, 2017, 3:27 am

Elexid wrote:A big spoiler with more questions.

Spoiler:
First of all, I don't know why people are freaking out because of Aoyama's revealing to Karasuma Renya as BO (original/previous) boss. It came in the right time. Actually, revealing him is opening more doors than closing and would put more mysteries out there in the story. Each one now has a different theory than the other and mostly agree on small parts.


Spoiler:
Oh, I do understand that. Mainly because Gosho is finally giving up (part of) his seemingly sacred Status Quo. You are right in saying this is not yet a complete solution of all the remaning mysteries. But it is apparently a huge and undeniable step in that direction. And even though - yes - it is of Course opening more doors, this has always been true and hasn't stopped Gosho from prolongating the main plot (e.g. Conan having the Boss' phone number but doing nothing with it). But I believe this "door opening" is not gonna lead to another detour of the Story - and that is because of the second reason People are "freaking out" (well, I'd rather call it "are hyped" or maybe "stirred up"): Gosho's health. This Revelation was kinda rushed. It was presented by Yusaku on a silver platter without further ado or build-up/deductions. As this apparently is due to Gosho's illness (whatever it may be), it is not all that surprising that People sense the end coming (which in Conan Standards is not gonna be around the next Corner anyway). Gosho seems to be wanting to start wrapping it up as well, no matter if it's due to the illness being severe or him realizing that his health in General can't take another 10 years of this straining mangaka-schedule with minimal amounts of sleep.


Elexid wrote:
Spoiler:
Something else I have been wondering about is, (according to Kohji) why is ASACA RUM's name completing the BO boss's name? What's his connection with him (if he's dead)? Was Kohji trying to reveal both of them (RUM and Karasuma)? Or does that prove somehow Karasuma Renya is still alive? (Or otherwise why would Kohji hint them with a name of a "dead" person, that wouldn't benefit them, in his "dying message"? Or is that name referring/leading to something/someone else other than Karasuma himself?)

Spoiler:
Yeah, I was pondering the same question a few Posts earlier. It would make more sense for him to (only) spell out his killer's Name, as spelling out the BO's Name/head would require him to have a LOT of Information at that Point.


Elexid wrote:
Spoiler:
All I can see is that Aoyama took a smart step here in making progress with the story. Well, some people might say he revealed the biggest mystery in the story and I can tell you he only revealed a small part of it.
Also, We are at the end of the Arc of the closest one to the boss, so in my opinion, it's only natural to do so when you have a manga that big with a lot of different stories inside and other mysteries away from the BO to find out. Just realizing that the manga is entering its 24th year, gives him every single right to reveal him lol.


Spoiler:
And referring back to everything I tried to say above: for Gosho, "progressing the Story" - and on such a Level at that - IS indeed something to be happy about as it hasn't been Happening for a looong time and wasn't guaranteed to happen at this point at all. So, of Course does he not only have the right, many of the Readers were expecting so for quite some time exactly because of those 24 years. And I guess everyone agrees that there are a) a lot more mysteries left (heck, RUM arc isn't even closed yet) and b) This is not the final solution for the Boss. The solution is surely gonna have at least one more "layer" to it.

Elexid wrote:
**P.S: I would put Aoyama's health in priority. I hope he gets well soon.**

I believe everyone agrees. :)
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But be the serpent under it.
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Elexid
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Elexid » December 14th, 2017, 5:27 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Elexid wrote:A big spoiler with more questions.

Spoiler:
First of all, I don't know why people are freaking out because of Aoyama's revealing to Karasuma Renya as BO (original/previous) boss. It came in the right time. Actually, revealing him is opening more doors than closing and would put more mysteries out there in the story. Each one now has a different theory than the other and mostly agree on small parts.

Looking back at Karasuma Renya's case, All I can see is someone stupid who couldn't find out his mother's treasure and had to get help from some detectives to solve it for him. The BO is known to have some smart people in it. (at least smarter than random detectives to come up with and killing them one by one.) If so, why didn't he use the help of his ORG. and figure it out. Also, if he's alive, why did he abandon the mansion, when it's also known that BO don't leave any traces behind them. And if he's dead, why didn't his members blow up that mansion immediately after he died instead of letting it get sold publicly? Everything isn't making any sense at this point.

Something else I have been wondering about is, (according to Kohji) why is ASACA RUM's name completing the BO boss's name? What's his connection with him (if he's dead)? Was Kohji trying to reveal both of them (RUM and Karasuma)? Or does that prove somehow Karasuma Renya is still alive? (Or otherwise why would Kohji hint them with a name of a "dead" person, that wouldn't benefit them, in his "dying message"? Or is that name referring/leading to something/someone else other than Karasuma himself?)

All I can see is that Aoyama took a smart step here in making progress with the story. Well, some people might say he revealed the biggest mystery in the story and I can tell you he only revealed a small part of it.
Also, We are at the end of the Arc of the closest one to the boss, so in my opinion, it's only natural to do so when you have a manga that big with a lot of different stories inside and other mysteries away from the BO to find out. Just realizing that the manga is entering its 24th year, gives him every single right to reveal him lol.

**P.S: I would put Aoyama's health in priority. I hope he gets well soon.**


Spoiler:
I agree that there's still much to be told/revealed.

But even just the original boss (to say nothing of whether he's still alive and/or still the boss) being revealed (and the reveal of, presumably, the family who founded the BO, or, at least, the reveal of one of the main BO families) is no small deal, either. At the very least, this is a major pointer towards the ultimate mystery.

Gosho himself described this as a turn of fate in that video in which he put the finishing touches on the "Carasuma" double page spread.



Spoiler:
Yeah, you're right, just knowing that he kept it secret since vol.30 and revealing it now out of nowhere, tells you where the story is heading. I guess the upcoming chapters will mostly concentrate on 1) Conan trying to search into Karasuma history 2) his fight with Rum.


saorin wrote:
Elexid wrote:A big spoiler with more questions.

Spoiler:
First of all, I don't know why people are freaking out because of Aoyama's revealing to Karasuma Renya as BO (original/previous) boss. It came in the right time. Actually, revealing him is opening more doors than closing and would put more mysteries out there in the story. Each one now has a different theory than the other and mostly agree on small parts.


saorin wrote:
Spoiler:
Oh, I do understand that. Mainly because Gosho is finally giving up (part of) his seemingly sacred Status Quo. You are right in saying this is not yet a complete solution of all the remaning mysteries. But it is apparently a huge and undeniable step in that direction. And even though - yes - it is of Course opening more doors, this has always been true and hasn't stopped Gosho from prolongating the main plot (e.g. Conan having the Boss' phone number but doing nothing with it). But I believe this "door opening" is not gonna lead to another detour of the Story and that is because of the second reason People are "freaking out" (well, I'd rather call it "are hyped" or maybe "stirred up"): Gosho's health. This Revelation was kinda rushed. It was presented by Yusaku on a silver platter without further ado or buildup/deductions. As this apparently is due to Gosho's illness (whatever it may be), it is not all that surprising that People sense the end coming (which in Conan Standards is not gonna be around the next Corner anyway). Gosho seems to be wanting to start wrapping it up as well, no matter if it's due to the illness being severe or him realizing that his health in General can't take another 10 years of this straining mangaka-schedule with minimal amounts of sleep.


Spoiler:
Well, I didn't deny that he made a big step in the story, but haven't you noticed that he was ending Conan since the beginning of Rum's arc (mostly because he's putting something about BO/Rum at the end of every conclusion chapter)? In my opinion, Gosho wasn't trying to make another detour in the story after Rum's arc, he would definitely head towards the finale. Revealing the closest person to the (current) BO boss is a really big deal as well, and that's why it looked natural to me when I saw him revealing BO boss name. What I'm trying to say is we are not heading towards the end because we were already in it since Rum's arc. I guess Gosho's health is playing a big part in that, mostly because he's getting old and wants to enjoy what's left for him. He said in an interview, "I know ending Conan would make the readers sad but everything has an end to it." Also from that drawing video of "Karasuma", he revealed him because he lowered his defense and some people figured it out from "MASCARA", which gives us another reason of why he rushed in revealing him.



saorin wrote:
Elexid wrote:
Spoiler:
All I can see is that Aoyama took a smart step here in making progress with the story. Well, some people might say he revealed the biggest mystery in the story and I can tell you he only revealed a small part of it.
Also, We are at the end of the Arc of the closest one to the boss, so in my opinion, it's only natural to do so when you have a manga that big with a lot of different stories inside and other mysteries away from the BO to find out. Just realizing that the manga is entering its 24th year, gives him every single right to reveal him lol.


saorin wrote:
Spoiler:
And referring back to everything I tried to say above: for Gosho, "progressing the Story" - and on such a Level at that - IS indeed something to be happy about as it hasn't been Happening for a looong time and wasn't guaranteed to happen at this point at all. So, of Course does he not only have the right, many of the Readers were expecting so for quite some time exactly because of those 24 years. And I guess everyone agrees that there are a) a lot more mysteries left (heck, RUM arc isn't even closed yet) and b) This is not the final solution for the Boss. The solution is surely gonna have at least one more "layer" to it.


Spoiler:
No, because of those 24 years, he has to start to end the story. Yeah, I agree on both (a&b). Maybe the name is a misdirect as some of you said. You know 40 years ago, he was 99, so supposedly he's 139 years old now. BO goal is finding immortality. Have they already found it? Or did they shrink him like Conan? but it wouldn't make any sense because I remember Gin saying in the 1st episode that this drug was developed recently and also by Haibara.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » December 14th, 2017, 5:35 am

I don't think that someone from episode like "The Gathering of the Detectives! Shinichi Kudo vs. Kaitou Kid" will have an effection in the anime. that episode in my opinion doesn't have any affect in the anime.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Nemomon » December 14th, 2017, 6:17 am

Elexid wrote:
Spoiler:
No, because of those 24 years, he has to start to end the story. Yeah, I agree on both (a&b). Maybe the name is a misdirect as some of you said. You know 40 years ago, he was 99, so supposedly he's 139 years old now. BO goal is finding immortality. Have they already found it? Or did they shrink him like Conan? but it wouldn't make any sense because I remember Gin saying in the 1st episode that this drug was developed recently and also by Haibara.


Spoiler:
From the other side we have a Silver Bullet drug, and seemingly immortal Vermouth. The problem here is not that Renya might be almost 140 years old (in a way Vermouth could be even older now). The problem is that Renya should be long dead before the drug research has started and the BO was found. If we assume that Renya was the original founder of the BO, he shouldn't be dead at the age of 99, but at a younger age.

Anyway, I will stick to Vermouth's words about raising the dead against the stream of time. I think Renya is still dead, but Karasuma family wants to resurrect him. So Kouji or whoever arranged the UMASCARA letters didn't want to point out Renya, but rather the entire family.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » December 14th, 2017, 7:16 am

Also, if he is the boss, then how could be that he will scare from one of his members which i meant scaring from vodka in the first episode?

From this, and from the previous post that i do, then truly I don't think that he is the boss of the anime
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby ArseneLupen » December 14th, 2017, 7:22 am

So I'm new in Forum but I'm following DC since 2002. I was until four years ago also active in a german DC forum.
I registered myself to dctp because I want really discuss the current information and naturally discuss my thoughts.

To the revaling itself:

Spoiler:
I'm actually a little bid disappointed. İf you read the case files and watch the Anime too you will see, in most of the organization cases there are always somewhere crows. As example: The file in Haido City hotel (Reunion with the Black Organization), if I remember correctly the scene which Haibara is seeing Gins Porsche 356A the crows are showing up. What I'm trying to say is, İf you see the crowns in an episode of DC you could tell, there will be a huge move from the organization. So in episode of Renya Karasuma had also this Crown related symbols either. Karasu means also crow in Japanese and in the episode there where crows to. The episode was so related to crows that the translators made a huge mistranslation and named his name ''crow association''. The handy melody ''Nanatsu No Ko" another crow related hint.
Because of so much hints which is related to crows, I really thought it would be too obivous if Renya Karasuma is the boss, (or at least the founder of the organization), I mean its then too simple. So my theory was that Atsushi is the boss, but as I said, I never thought that the complexity of the "who is the boss character mystery" would be so low. I expected really much more mystery after 20 years reading and watching DC.

What makes me also disappointed is that, normally the name "Karasuma"itself dont give a clue that he is the boss. We could only tell that, he might be the murder of Kohji Haneda because normally you would spell the name who is responsible for the accident. This side note at the end of the chapter is nonsense. Why revealing that Karasuma is the boss (!) when the name itself says nothing and Yusaku said also its just a theory? (We could really only assume that Karasuma might be allive and killed Kohji, so he might be Rum and could used a drug on himself.) Also my problem is, why Yusaku tells all this and why not the main character ? I expected that Shinichi founds who the boss is.


İ will write later my thoughts and questions to the Kohji case. (=.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » December 14th, 2017, 7:39 am

If atsushi miyano is the boss then i will hate the entire story. After proving that elena his wife is the true angel, and after procing that he is one of good persons then ot appear that he is the boss, then it will make me hate it more and more
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Nemomon » December 14th, 2017, 7:53 am

Spoiler:
For me Renya is not Anokata and never was. The BO was found a little after Renya died, and its goal was/is to resurrect Renya.

This solves the issue with the mansion being sold to some strangers, and Renya not being enough smart to be the boss.

Renya's body probably is kept somewhere awaiting its resurrection. The Boss is probably Renya's only son wanting to bring him back to life. Vermouth in this story could even been a whore and later a test subject that was taken by the Boss as his playgirl and later drugged by Silver Bullet to see how it will work on a body. Vermouth not having anywhere else to go stayed with the BO, but wants to take it down as a revenge of what they did to her. This is also why she's his favourite and has some freedom but not completely.

This also explains why it was Yusaku who found out who the Boss is. He guessed the family name right, but not the Boss' identity (this one will be Shinichi's job).
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » December 14th, 2017, 7:58 am

To resserect someone, do you think that this is a ROD anime? Or they want to make a technoloy story like movie 6?


To tell you the truth guys then i only hope to finish the anime becore die
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Nemomon » December 14th, 2017, 8:10 am

Spoiler:
I don't know what's ROD, but Vermouth clearly said:

"We can be both of God and the Devil. Since we're trying to raise the dead against the stream of time."

How else can we iterpret that? I think that the BO wants to resurrect someone, maybe the one that is long dead.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Themaninarmor » December 14th, 2017, 8:16 am

Spoiler:
i think the last interview confirmed the boss is karasuma (Renya or his descendant), if the drug was for resurrect someone, why bother to give it to someone who still alive?
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » December 14th, 2017, 8:16 am

Rod the read or die anime, and i don't think the story of the god or the devil will affect either. Anyway, as i said, the i only want the finale of anime before the finale of my life
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Heavy Spoilers!)

Postby Nemomon » December 14th, 2017, 8:39 am

Themaninarmor wrote:
Spoiler:
i think the last interview confirmed the boss is karasuma (Renya or his descendant), if the drug was for resurrect someone, why bother to give it to someone who still alive?


Spoiler:
Yeah, for me the boss is Karasuma Renya's son. Pretty much he's the only one that would want to resurrect him. And that couldn't be his sister because it would be strange if Vermouth would be special to a woman boss. Also, considering that Vermouth is an old hag, if she was a part of a Karasuma family she wouldn't let someone to order her around ("I gave you too much freedom. Come back to me.").

Why to test on a living body? To make sure that the drug will work. Or at least will do something to it. You wouldn't want to feed a dead body with random drugs until finally one of them will work. If Vermouth was a random person, she would be a pretty good test subject. Nobody would care if she died or disappeared. But the drug worked, at least partially (considering that the BO still works on it). On the other hand, if Vermouth wss Karasuma, why would only she take the drug?
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.

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