Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
dccd
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby dccd » January 11th, 2018, 9:49 pm

So Wakita thought Bourbon is not good enough for that job?
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 12th, 2018, 11:02 am

Wakita thought of extracting information of Kogoro, why would he want to involve Bourbon?
dccd
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby dccd » January 12th, 2018, 6:38 pm

So Wakita became Kogoros apprentice to extract information.
But Bourbon already is Kogoros apprentice and can extract information.

If theyre both bo this doesnt make sense - expect Wakita thinks that Bourbon sucks (and he himself is better) or is a rat.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
blackmoon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby blackmoon » January 12th, 2018, 9:38 pm

dccd wrote:So Wakita became Kogoros apprentice to extract information.
But Bourbon already is Kogoros apprentice and can extract information.

If theyre both bo this doesnt make sense - expect Wakita thinks that Bourbon sucks (and he himself is better) or is a rat.


Come to think of this... it would be strange if Gosho designed it just to repeat the same trick twice:
1.Bourbon asks to become Kogoros apprentince
Wakita asks to become Kogoros apprentice
2. Bourbon turns out to be a BO
Wakita turns out to be.... ? ......
3. Rum's redundant message to Bourbon to speed up:
"Time is Money
So Hurry UP!"
Why the repeat and redundancy? Hmm...
When you're seeing doubles, it's always suspicious... more than a joke that is. ;)
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"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby Kor » January 13th, 2018, 1:54 am

blackmoon wrote:Come to think of this... it would be strange if Gosho designed it just to repeat the same trick twice:
[...]
Why the repeat and redundancy? Hmm...


Vermouth used a disguise. Bourbon used a disguise.
Kir turns out to be a spy. Bourbon turns out to be a spy.
Conan and his allies used disguises in the Vermouth confrontation. Conan and his allies used disguises in the Bourbon confrontation.
Eisuke turns out to be Kir's brother. Masumi turns out to be Shuichi's sister. Shuukichi turns out to be their brother.
Kaito and Aoko are childhood friends. Shinichi and Ran are childhood friends. Heiji and Kazuha are childhood friends. Some other couples also exist because said couples met or knew each other when they were kids.
There's a voice-changing bowtie, a voice-changing face mask and a voice-changing choker.

It wouldn't necessarily be strange for Gosho to repeat the same thing twice, cause Gosho is already extremely repetitive and redundant.
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CrimsonGenius
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby CrimsonGenius » January 13th, 2018, 6:20 am

Spoiler:
reason why Haibara didn't sense any BO vibes from Rumi who's probably present RUM since she hasn't possibly seen her, she was only a year old baby 17 years ago..
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 13th, 2018, 7:22 am

There are several pointers which nullify Rumi is Rum. Rum is a man and a codenamed as a hard Spirit. Rumi is a woman, end of the deal. (Rum is described as a womanly man, not a woman with Man's strength.)
dccd
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby dccd » January 13th, 2018, 8:28 am

Its still possible that these descriptions are only related to Rums double(s).
Rum doesnt necessarily has to be a man.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 13th, 2018, 10:57 am

Didn't Gosho mention that Rum is a single person and has no body doubles/triples?
Also if Rumi is Rum then why she needs Bourbon's help to investigate Conan? She herself can do that, without raising any suspicion, like going to Agasa and check on Ai and talk about Shinichi with him.
On a serious note, just realized that Masumi and Wakita employed the same tactics to lure out Conan/Kogoro. In her initial case Sera makes a deliberate mistake to lure out Conan, similarly Wakita makes a deliberate mistake to lure out Kogoro.
dccd
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby dccd » January 13th, 2018, 9:03 pm

He mentioned that he is one person.
But this doesnt mean he cant have doubles/triples.
I wouldnt necessarily read "double" as a "lookalike" but maybe more as "representative".
So its possible that all descriptions (including the eye) are only related to the representative instead of the real Rum.

And Rumi obv isnt Rum.

Not sure which mistake you mean in both cases.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 293

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 14th, 2018, 12:05 am

Body doubles, meaning he is not one person. There are several people working under the name Rum. The original Rum is just first among the equals. TBH, you can start thinking that Bourbon is also Rum's double as Rum has assigned him some stuff over the phone. But that would be very illogical to think.(That Rum is preferring Bourbon over his trusted lieutenants.)
Say it's possible that a Teapot so abysmally small that no telescope can detect it, orbits the Sun just between the the orbits of Mars and Earth, but would it be rational to assume such teapot's existence? Now I'll accept that Rum has three body doubles if you can prove that such a teapot doesn't exist.

On a serious note, during the haunted hotel murder case, where Sera was introduced.When Sera's deduction goes off due to not taking into account that Paint can, Conan starts to take the stage, Sera notices this with the corner of her left eye and a knowing smile appears on her face. It's like she lured Conan into a trap.

Wakita dos the same-thing in Restaurant case, he wanted Kogoro to solve the case, but when the latter faltered he himself took the centre stage, the three had already shown their cuffs to the part(Conan, Kogoro and Wakita), so Wakita would have noticed that the young man's cuff was clear and it didn't have stain of Ginger juice, yet he made this mistake to lure out sleeping Kogoro. Just like, Sera who noticed the place from where the victim fell, she knew that there was a paint can over there all right. yet made this mistake to lure out Conan. As if these two people have already an working hypothesis that Conan/Kogoro are more than they let it appear. So I think it would be correct to assume that Wakita somehow knows, just like Sera that Kogoro is a fraud, but the former felt a hard time to pin the stuff on Conan.
dccd
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby dccd » January 14th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Erm... I think you missunderstood the part.
If someone has a double he isnt anymore one person?
For example if Tom Cruise is doubled by a stuntman-lookalike there are 2 Tom Cruises in the world?
There you go.

Im not sure if the rest is your hypothesis or your interpretation of my post.
Either way I didnt said anything of it and didnt meant it the way you portray it.

Again, what Im stating is:
Rum has one representative (Wakita).
Wakita combines all 5 elements Ai told us
(Old+Strong+Feminine+Eye+ yes... its even in the same panel: he´s a double in the sense of a representative).
Bo-guys (expect the boss) thinks Wakita=Rum.
Only the boss knows who real Rum is.

This would allow Gosho to do a big showdown with a fake-reveal (Wakita) and
afterwards the true reveal (real Rum).
He already used this on the Bourbon-Arc (fake reveal as a bo-guy and afterwards as a good-guy).

Hope you got it now.

I doubt that Sera is somehow interested in Kogoro. She didnt showed a single sign about that yet and her and her mother
already know who Conan is ("Isnt the same boy as 10 years ago...").
Kuroda seems to know about Kogoro too (Your the brain behind Kogoro).(How? Really big hint towards him = Tsutomu)
Rumi is obviously interested in Conan - and not in Ai (CH 1006)(-> no BO)
And Wakita is interested in Kogoro.
Since one of those three probably will end up as a bo-guy, I pick Wakita.

But why didnt Bourbon got the Kogoro-mission?
Spoiler:
"Q38: "Who's the most handsome member of the BO?"
A: "Huh... Is Amuro considered a BO member, too? He must be handsome, Amuro. Is Akai a BO member, too? I see, maybe Vodka might be handsome, too. But I think Gin is handsome."

So Gosho himself isnt considering him as a bo-guy anymore.
Furthermore he obviously had other plans in mind for Bourbon (Shinichi-conflict).
That completely explains the presence of Wakita.

So I stay with my first instinct:
Wakita is a bo-guy and the representative of real Rum.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
blackmoon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby blackmoon » January 14th, 2018, 8:31 pm

Kor wrote:
blackmoon wrote:Come to think of this... it would be strange if Gosho designed it just to repeat the same trick twice:
[...]
Why the repeat and redundancy? Hmm...


Vermouth used a disguise. Bourbon used a disguise.
Kir turns out to be a spy. Bourbon turns out to be a spy.
Conan and his allies used disguises in the Vermouth confrontation. Conan and his allies used disguises in the Bourbon confrontation.
Eisuke turns out to be Kir's brother. Masumi turns out to be Shuichi's sister. Shuukichi turns out to be their brother.
Kaito and Aoko are childhood friends. Shinichi and Ran are childhood friends. Heiji and Kazuha are childhood friends. Some other couples also exist because said couples met or knew each other when they were kids.
There's a voice-changing bowtie, a voice-changing face mask and a voice-changing choker.

It wouldn't necessarily be strange for Gosho to repeat the same thing twice, cause Gosho is already extremely repetitive and redundant.


Excellent writing! This part alone would stand as a wonderfully written poem! Not to mention it is a good and accurate description of what has happened so far...

Now I know this may be too stretching... but what are the chances that one of the 3 Rum candidates (Rumi, Wakita, Kuroda) is actually Vermouth in disguise?

Sharon Vineyard = Chris Vineyard = Vermouth
"Jodie suspected Chris Vineyard of being Vermouth when she saw her at Sharon’s funeral. She somehow determined Chris Vineyard’s prints matched those of the glasses. Chris would have been too young to commit a crime 20 years ago, so later Jodie obtained Sharon’s fingerprints and matched those as well. All three matched, proving to Jodie that the three people were one and the same." -quoted from wiki

You know that this Rum mystery of an old man, a woman, and a strong built man could easily be unraveled by the same method. AND it would be a lot easier to explain why, IF, it was Vermouth who pretended to be RUM. ;)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 293

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 14th, 2018, 10:14 pm

dccd wrote:Erm... I think you missunderstood the part.
If someone has a double he isnt anymore one person?
For example if Tom Cruise is doubled by a stuntman-lookalike there are 2 Tom Cruises in the world?
There you go.

Im not sure if the rest is your hypothesis or your interpretation of my post.
Either way I didnt said anything of it and didnt meant it the way you portray it.

Again, what Im stating is:
Rum has one representative (Wakita).
Wakita combines all 5 elements Ai told us
(Old+Strong+Feminine+Eye+ yes... its even in the same panel: he´s a double in the sense of a representative).
Bo-guys (expect the boss) thinks Wakita=Rum.
Only the boss knows who real Rum is.

This would allow Gosho to do a big showdown with a fake-reveal (Wakita) and
afterwards the true reveal (real Rum).
He already used this on the Bourbon-Arc (fake reveal as a bo-guy and afterwards as a good-guy).

Hope you got it now.

I doubt that Sera is somehow interested in Kogoro. She didnt showed a single sign about that yet and her and her mother
already know who Conan is ("Isnt the same boy as 10 years ago...").
Kuroda seems to know about Kogoro too (Your the brain behind Kogoro).(How? Really big hint towards him = Tsutomu)
Rumi is obviously interested in Conan - and not in Ai (CH 1006)(-> no BO)
And Wakita is interested in Kogoro.
Since one of those three probably will end up as a bo-guy, I pick Wakita.

But why didnt Bourbon got the Kogoro-mission?
Spoiler:
"Q38: "Who's the most handsome member of the BO?"
A: "Huh... Is Amuro considered a BO member, too? He must be handsome, Amuro. Is Akai a BO member, too? I see, maybe Vodka might be handsome, too. But I think Gin is handsome."

So Gosho himself isnt considering him as a bo-guy anymore.
Furthermore he obviously had other plans in mind for Bourbon (Shinichi-conflict).
That completely explains the presence of Wakita.

So I stay with my first instinct:
Wakita is a bo-guy and the representative of real Rum.


The thing is Tom Cruise is an established identity, while Rum is a fuzzy and nebulous identity. A double playing Tom Cruise makes the double as Tom Cruise for the time being.

The thing is, if Rum already has one representative working for him why is he relying on Bourbon? Isn't Rum's latest mission given to Bourbon makes Bourbon his own representative?

The biggest logical mistake here is to assume that Kuroda knows about Conan being the brains behind Kogoro. He has never seen Conan in action, let alone Kogoro. Still he knows about it( from his contacts in NPA? A bigger hint that he's involved with Amuro/PSB, also ignoring the bruise in Kohji's palm is not very Tsutomu like. As Tsutomu=Shukichi's( memory +Intelligence)+Shuichi's strength. As of now Kuroda is showing stuff pretty much under that level.)

Rumi is a crime scene destroyer and clue thief(Kuroda remembers Kohji's corpse, with multiple eye injuries, yet having his glasses on so the glasses were put on after he was killed, the shogi piece was missing from his palm.)

Wakita is a suspicious guy who thinks Kogoro is more than he lets off.(He made a deliberate mistake in his deduction to lure out sleeping Kogoro. He wants to stick with him, irrespective of this odd demand unlike Amuro. These are proofs that he is more concerned about sticking with him rather than investigating him. Is Wakita trying to shield Kogoro from someone? Is he playing an investigation charade with his employers to make sure Kogoro isn't killed and at the same time taking out information about soul detective case?)

I never said Sera is interested in Kogoro. There's a way of English wording, when you have multiple subjects and multiple objects, you can write them by using slashes. It's like, "Conan/Shinichi is very affectionate of Haibara/Ran." So Sera>>Conan and Wakita>>Kogoro. The thing is the way of verifying their hypothesis that Conan/Kogoro is more than thy let off." is fundamentally same.
dccd
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,008 (Manga On Hiatus)

Postby dccd » January 14th, 2018, 11:36 pm

I´ll give u the answer in the Rum-thread since I dont want to derail it.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler

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