Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X (manga on break until 11.29.17)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kor » October 14th, 2017, 7:33 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:In that case, would you mind getting into those nuanced descriptions of 1999–2003 DC and of 2007–present DC in PM?


Probably in the future. I wouldn't lie that writing essay long PMs will distract me away from stuff I need to do. (and it's probably something I said in the past as well iirc...? sadly that still applies.)
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S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 14th, 2017, 8:20 am

Haibara & Aika ryona wrote:Can you explain more about whay do you mean here? Also, Are you talking with me, or with Kor


I'm talking to all people currently discussion here.^^

And what I mean:

Be careful with Nostalgia. It's untrustworthy, specially in times of "content drought".

It just happend when I heard people talking "back then.." or "things were so much better in" that after fact checking it mostly turns out into "Nope, sorry, that's bullshit". (Specially in WoW Discussions. Vanilla is VERY overrated.) People just often automaticly equalize "it was better back then", with "it was new and exiting back then". (The early 2000 is just the era were most of the older fans began to discuss and get scans via the net.)

But in most cases, I'm kinda reluctant to play the "Adam" here, because things like the Backfire Effect.
K.O.R.N
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby K.O.R.N » October 14th, 2017, 10:49 am

In any case, the real fun only begins after this case starting with 1006 ends. I think we won't see much of Rumi in the next chapter, but in the end of this case, which is possibly 1008, someone strange might appear. I am thinking, Kuroda, the superintendent might appear around Kudo's house or something like that, as a result of this fuss. Wakita's whereabouts are still unknown. Making this guy appear I think will reveal too much about him, making him even a more solid candidate for Rum.
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Kokuriko
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kokuriko » October 14th, 2017, 11:51 am

Being a new member, I can't follow the whole discussion about the manga's quality in recent years so I'll pass.
K.O.R.N wrote:In case you are curious, I have made a list of 80 mysteries (ranging from possible ones, to absolute ones) here: https://anotepad.com/notes/hkjph5

Thank you for the list. It's convenient for keeping track of important plot points and for further discussions. I can share some of my thoughts about Questions No.10,21,23,26,33,38,53,58,65,72,80. Please excuse my English; I'm not a native speaker.
Spoiler:
21. Who is Asaka?
I think Rumi is the real Asaka, as in "Amanda's real bodyguard". The Asaka appeared in the case 17 years ago might be Rum in disguise. Gin said something like Rum made a mess of that case, which implied that there were unexpected events (perhaps a survivor)
23. Bourbon's family background
This is intriguing given 1000+ chapters dealing with other major characters and their backgrounds, Gosho is still being vague about him. For one thing, Gosho tends to depict him as another Sherlock Holmes beside Conan, even more than Akai.
⦁ Gin's remark in File 704 "...one who you wish only existed in novels. A detective like Sherlock Holmes." (source: the fandom wiki)
⦁ Rei's specialty is boxing, just like Sherlock Holmes.
⦁ Date's comment in File 807 that both Rei & Takagi are gentlemen. Sherlock Holmes is also a gentleman detective.
⦁ His connection with Elena Miyano, whose namesake was taken from Irene Adler.
I admit I like him more than Akai, because of the comments on his character from the others. The Bo members noted that he's secretive, likes to do what he pleases; Date's comment implied he had a tendency to overestimate his abilities; and as a kid he got involved in fights a lot. But Akai's remark implied Rei could play fair unless it was a matter of personal issues.
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It isn't like Akai or Akai papa killed his family or something, right ?
At this point I wonder which will come first : Ran's birthday or Rei's past reveal. Maybe we will get some more info in M22.
26. The Miyano parents' fate
The thing is, Elena's message to Haibara bugs me. At one point Elena stated that both of them needed to leave their children to complete their research. I don't quite get what she meant. If they were actually busy going off places to gather info for their research then I wouldn't find that weird. It's clear that both Akemi and Haibara's birthplace is Japan given their real names, so I wonder if "leaving" was being used literally. Furthermore, Haibara believes the event of their death was an accident, but a part of me still think it was intentional.
10. Boss' background
33. BO's headquarters

I'm not confident about the HQ's location, but from details like the boss's number using the Nanatsu No Ko song and being related to the regional code of Tottori and the naming "4869" it's safe to assume that the boss's hometown is in Tottori prefecture. Another thing, I find it weird that Kusuda Rikumichi, a low-ranked BO member (without a codename) actually knew the boss's number.
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Even Akai asked Rei to investigate the original distribution of his gun in File 897, which I guess was the real intention of his reappearance. I expect we will get some result by the end of Rum arc.
38. Why does Gin always think of naked Shiho?
I remember there is a rare exception, when Gin asked Mori through the tracking device about his relationship with Shiho, that Gosho drew her fully clothed. Who knows, maybe it was his own idea, or his editor's. Imagine the conversation :
Editor-san: Hey why did you draw my waifu naked in this bastard's head?
Gosho: I don't know, just my idea of a dangerous criminal with some sick mentality.
Editor-san: Oh okay.

Meanwhile, there's a Haibara-to-Ran example :
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53. Should we still trust Haibara's BO aura sense these days?
After the Cherry Blossom viewing case ? Not really. It seems that the reason Haibara couldn't sense Numabuchi (Files 358-360) and Vermouth (Files 850-852) was because in both cases the BO members didn't have the particular "hunting" aura. She couldn't pinpoint Pisco and Rei's aura but it doesn't matter now. Side-note: Akai apparently can switch "hunting mode" on/off as well.
58. Is Rei investigating Agasa?
IIRC, for about 200+ chapters since Rei's first debut, not even once has he met Prof. Agasa face-to-face unlike Subaru and Sera, even though he did express some interest to meet him in the past. After the Bell Tree case, he even passed the chance to visit Prof. Agasa's house twice. I think Rei deliberately avoids meeting him. It's possible that Prof. Agasa did meet him in the past and Rei doesn't want Vermouth to find out through the wiretap he had on him.
65. Shukichi's role in the plot
At the moment his notable factors are : shogi and being the step-brother of Haneda Kouji, who was involved in Rum's messy case 17 years ago. Itakura the programmer was also a shogi player. I think Gosho will reveal more about Haneda through him in the future.
72. Does Haneda Kouji really know who Rum is?
- Haneda Kouji's message is a puzzle piece in this case. How did Haneda acquire the knowledge of the word "RUM" ? All the BO agents we've seen are a bunch of sneaky bastards. It's hard to imagine a high-ranked BO agent like Rum willing to divulge his name to a mere shogi player. Was that name mentioned by Amanda Hughes ? Or by the real Asaka ? Was the message truly from Haneda ? I guess this is a part of the whole big puzzle (the Rum arc).
80. Is there more than one BO boss?
This caught me off-guard, but it's possible.


BTW, I'm glad the list has Question No.49 & 37
Are the Detective Boys really just children?
*in Vincent Martella's voice* Yes, yes they are.
Will any good characters die in the end of Rum arc?
I hope a lot. Maybe that's the point of all these romcom stories in the past years.

I also got some doubts regarding a few cases, so I hope you guys would help me clarify.
Spoiler:
- The timing of Kuroda's appearance after Rei being officially revealed as an NPA undercover. For now I support the theory that Kuroda Hyoue was an important member of the NPA - National Police Agency and possibly Rei's former boss, as opposed to Scotch, who was a member of the PSB - Public Security Bureau. According to Wikipedia, the Japanese NPA works alongside the PSB, but it does have regional branches including Nagano prefecture. Consider the following : During his investigation of Tsutomu and/or the Haneda Kouji case, Kuroda assigned Rei a leading position in Security Planning Division but an accident happened, which explains these details:
+ His MIA status
+ Rei's ability to assemble two squads assisting him in his mission
+ His knowledge of Conan - the secret behind "Sleeping Kogoro"

- The lack of details regarding Haneda Kouji's corpse. Up until now he's the first dead-confirmed victim of APTX 4869 the poison whose case is exposed to the readers. Some speculate that APTX 4869 has reproductive potential and/or can affect the life span of human cells, but the manga doesn't provide clear examples. I'm mainly concerned about how APTX 4869 the poison, having de-aging characteristics, manages to kill its victims without a trace.

- Based on what we got from Sera's memory and what we knew about the BO in general, was Scotch Akai's partner ?
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Most BO members during a mission work in pair, and judging from Sera's memory in File 937 it looks like Scotch and Akai were armed in advance. Then it might justify Rei's deep-rooted hatred for Akai, with him being a factor leading to the death of Rei's acquaintances (Scotch and Akemi)

- What is Gosho's aim, keeping Akemi's postscript a secret at this point ? Is it a big spoiler ? Did he forget it ? Lots of things have been cleared up since the Kir arc, like Akai's current status and Mary-Elena relationship but the content of what seemingly a casual text message hasn't. Is 'Protecting my sister' not the true message ?

- Does Rei actually believe in Sherry's death ? Some thought the case files 997-999 are filler-qualitied, I agree because of Rei's seemingly out-of-character enthusiasm in helping the search (by taking advantage of his rank) and this particular exchange :
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It takes one to know one, or I just simply think too hard.

- Is finding the antidote the real final goal of Masumi & Mary ?
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Based on this exchange in File 1005, I consider their final objective is finding the way to get back Mary's original form, and Sera getting involved with Conan is just another on-the-side errand, similar to her finding more about Akai's death. It's also a possibility that they obtained the list of APTX victims like Rumi through the same mean, and it related to the case 17 years ago AND Tsutomu's disappearance.
S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 14th, 2017, 12:22 pm

Welcome in the Forum, Kokuriko.

Good thoughts to these question.

May I suggest that you might repost them in Chek's thread, since, besides her current absense, it is one of the more detailed collection of questions and possible answers?
Kokuriko
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Kokuriko » October 14th, 2017, 12:32 pm

S.Vineyard wrote:Welcome in the Forum, Kokuriko.

Good thoughts to these question.

May I suggest that you might repost them in Chek's thread, since, besides her current absense, it is one of the more detailed collection of questions and possible answers?

Thank you. I will. Should I delete my post in this thread ? I just tried to give a reply to K.O.R.N's post.
S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 14th, 2017, 12:35 pm

No, just repost it in Chek's thread :)
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 14th, 2017, 12:44 pm

S.Vineyard wrote:
Haibara & Aika ryona wrote:Can you explain more about whay do you mean here? Also, Are you talking with me, or with Kor


I'm talking to all people currently discussion here.^^

And what I mean:

Be careful with Nostalgia. It's untrustworthy, specially in times of "content drought".

It just happend when I heard people talking "back then.." or "things were so much better in" that after fact checking it mostly turns out into "Nope, sorry, that's bullshit". (Specially in WoW Discussions. Vanilla is VERY overrated.) People just often automaticly equalize "it was better back then", with "it was new and exiting back then". (The early 2000 is just the era were most of the older fans began to discuss and get scans via the net.)

But in most cases, I'm kinda reluctant to play the "Adam" here, because things like the Backfire Effect.


I do not think that what you are saying is right, and completely I don't think so. We firstly did gave you all reasons that made us think what we are think now, but to you guys, you are the one who said that we don't know what will happen next, there are a lot to happen, the writer Ghoso Knows what he is doing, give it more time even if I didn't see any good episodes after the episodes 450 only a few of them are goods such as Conan in England, how the other are boring, but you still say the writer is the best, he knows wha he is doing, and so on, even if I didn't see anything good from what he is doing

K.O.R.N wrote:In any case, the real fun only begins after this case starting with 1006 ends. I think we won't see much of Rumi in the next chapter, but in the end of this case, which is possibly 1008, someone strange might appear. I am thinking, Kuroda, the superintendent might appear around Kudo's house or something like that, as a result of this fuss. Wakita's whereabouts are still unknown. Making this guy appear I think will reveal too much about him, making him even a more solid candidate for Rum.



And ths what I am talking about, you are saying that when the chapter 1006 will finish, then there are a lot will happen from what you are think, so if it is happened, why I should wait all these times to see it after chapter 1006. look how many years will spends to reach chapter 1006, maybe after next year if you ask me, which means when the movie 23 are nearby to be ready to release in the Japanese Cimenas. And also, how can we know that there are a lot will happen at that time.

Detective Magic wrote:So if you - especially @Kor and @Haibara & Aika ryona

Kor wrote:I'm Kor, so my only response is just what Kor thinks.


So, such as kor, I am Haibara & Aika Ryona, and only response is just what Haibara & Aika Ryona thinks
K.O.R.N
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby K.O.R.N » October 14th, 2017, 1:04 pm

The definition of "fun" is different between us. Some care more about romance than BO plot. A lot do the opposite. Fun for some doesn't necessarily mean fun for others. Even if there really is no fun, then there's nothing you can do about it. I think about the plot and the progression a lot of times, and my prediction accuracy has never been higher than 50%, but I enjoy doing it, and I actually enjoy the series overall, and with the firm thought, that we are approaching the end, I'm happy with whatever brought to the table next. It's not the same as in the past, with tons of filler in Bourbon arc anymore. Things change.
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S.Vineyard
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby S.Vineyard » October 14th, 2017, 1:10 pm

Yeah the "Romance vs. BO" actually got quite vocal in the 990-993 topic. Makes me think that the later is saved for a big chunk of plot reveal.
(Funny that there wasn't actually any bashing of the current case, basically being a "DB" case. They normally get quite a lot of hate..)
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 14th, 2017, 1:14 pm

K.O.R.N wrote:The definition of "fun" is different between us. Some care more about romance than BO plot. A lot do the opposite. Fun for some doesn't necessarily mean fun for others. Even if there really is no fun, then there's nothing you can do about it. I think about the plot and the progression a lot of times, and my prediction accuracy has never been higher than 50%, but I enjoy doing it, and I actually enjoy the series overall, and with the firm thought, that we are approaching the end, I'm happy with whatever brought to the table next. It's not the same as in the past, with tons of filler in Bourbon arc anymore. Things change.


I didn't tell you to not enjoying it, but a lot of people here didn't allow us to say what we think. About Bourbon, I did gave my opinion, and about BO, Romance, and crimes they all were of the reasons of why I always love conan. BO are initial, and critical point of why I like conan, but really it is no problem to me if the writer, or not the writer who is writing the episodes, and movies. I will not force my opinions, but I always don't wantfrom anyone to force me to say something I don't believe it is right

Also, if there a different meaning for fun between us, then there are different ways in understand the episodes between us too.

S.Vineyard wrote:Yeah the "Romance vs. BO" actually got quite vocal in the 990-993 topic. Makes me think that the later is saved for a big chunk of plot reveal.
(Funny that there wasn't actually any bashing of the current case, basically being a "DB" case. They normally get quite a lot of hate..)


I really do enjoy the Romance in the Anime sometimes, and enjoy the crimes before when the anime in beginning until it reached the 450, and also BO were a really a critical part of why I liked them before, but now, I will just say my opinions.
K.O.R.N
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby K.O.R.N » October 14th, 2017, 1:18 pm

People have said this before, that with a DB case we get exposition. This seems to always be the case. Even in the Torn Friendship Case (398-400) for example, that marks the official first time that Ayumi can call Haibara "Ai-chan". Sure, you might say it's not even important and merely suggesting that the relationship between Haibara and Ayumi has become better that way, there's nothing wrong with it. But at least, that change from Haibara means that she's begun to trust Ayumi, and the DBs more, feeling their friendliness towards her. So on and so forth.

If we keep silent for a moment, and think a little bit, we can see development everywhere. Right there, the above mention is DEVELOPMENT. However small it is, it's still some development. Sure, there are cases with nothing developed at all, and there are a lot of them as a fact. If we keep seeking what's out there and complaining too much, we only hurt ourselves more than doing ourselves any good. Complaints about subplot? No problem. It's understandable. Complaints about BO's incompetence that gets busted by a kid multiple times? Well, what do you expect? Also it's far from over and too early to claim anything one-sided.

Or maybe subplot has been developed enough and it's time to stall it, to switch to some BO cases or something. Right now, we're in BO exposition case, and so it's reasonable to expect ourselves to be caught off guard soon enough.
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Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 14th, 2017, 1:22 pm

to tell you the truth KORN, I don't see any relationship between what we illustrated before with what you said in the final answer. IFurthermore, he interesting episodes not just from the development that we got from it, look to the interesting murders in the filler episodes before, and you will understand what I aam meaning
K.O.R.N
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby K.O.R.N » October 14th, 2017, 1:25 pm

Haibara & Aika ryona wrote:I didn't tell you to not enjoying it, but a lot of people here didn't allow us to say what we think. About Bourbon, I did gave my opinion, and about BO, Romance, and crimes they all were of the reasons of why I always love conan. BO are initial, and critical point of why I like conan, but really it is no problem to me if the writer, or not the writer who is writing the episodes, and movies. I will not force my opinions, but I always don't wantfrom anyone to force me to say something I don't believe it is right

Also, if there a different meaning for fun between us, then there are different ways in understand the episodes between us too.


Don't worry, I totally understand your point. There's no forcing of opinions in here. There's only freedom. What is defined as different is based on our own personal perspectives. Only thing we know for sure, is, if the fun is genuine, we should treasure it. If we don't like something, then so be it. I kinda hate subplot like MPD romantic drama and such, but, without that, the story would lack a lot of color and flavor. And to re-read that later, it sure could bring some fun.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 1,006–1,00X

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » October 14th, 2017, 1:29 pm

K.O.R.N wrote:
Haibara & Aika ryona wrote:I didn't tell you to not enjoying it, but a lot of people here didn't allow us to say what we think. About Bourbon, I did gave my opinion, and about BO, Romance, and crimes they all were of the reasons of why I always love conan. BO are initial, and critical point of why I like conan, but really it is no problem to me if the writer, or not the writer who is writing the episodes, and movies. I will not force my opinions, but I always don't wantfrom anyone to force me to say something I don't believe it is right

Also, if there a different meaning for fun between us, then there are different ways in understand the episodes between us too.


Don't worry, I totally understand your point. There's no forcing of opinions in here. There's only freedom. What is defined as different is based on our own personal perspectives. Only thing we know for sure, is, if the fun is genuine, we should treasure it. If we don't like something, then so be it. I kinda hate subplot like MPD romantic drama and such, but, without that, the story would lack a lot of color and flavor. And to re-read that later, it sure could bring some fun.



This is what I am saying. Now, I do hae reasons of why I think that Detective Conan became more than awful. Yup, there are a lot of opinions, and to tell you the truth, then I will not answer anyone if they didn't answer me. It is fine with me, that you really like the episodes, and the entire anime in General

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