(New?) idea about "Ano Kata"

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Kan Kōhi
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(New?) idea about "Ano Kata"

Postby Kan Kōhi » March 1st, 2017, 12:41 pm

Sorry, I submitted this way too early before after entering just a few lines of text. XD
The Preview and Submit buttons are way too close together.


I posted this in a german board before, but I thought about sharing this with the english community, too - to see what you think about this idea which occurred to me a few days ago.
And I thought:

"Could it be that a no kata, the boss of the organization, is... Shiho Miyano?"
No, I don't talk about the Shiho Miyano that turned into Ai Haibara.

Wait, before you think"What the...? What kind of stupid theory is that? And what kind of nickname is Kan Kōhi anyway?“ and stop reading - let me explain:

  • After doing a bit of research I remembered the case about Souhei Dejima in which it is said that Prof. Atsushi Miyano inherited his house - in which Dejima Design Works now resides - from his father, Akemi's and Shiho's grandfather. And I thought: why did we get this information?
  • Then I remembered that back on Bikuni (the "Mermaid Island") Conan Edogawa and Heiji Hattori flipped through some of the old guest books and Conan notices the name of "Shiho Miyano", while thinking "Shiho Miyano... Isn't that her real name? But this has to be a stupid coincidence. She's not the type to go crazy about eternal youth and beauty..." (translated from the german version). What if he was right about the person who signed there not being Ai - but not about the coincidence?
  • Doing a bit of further research after looking that up I found out that Shiho normally is a female name, but that there are (differently written and admittedly probably really rare) variants of it that can also be used for male persons.

    • The user Corab from the german board DCDP told me that the variant I found (史峰) is spelt Shihô (しほう), while the Shiho we know is spelt Shiho (しほ). But he also told me that there nevertheless is a variant written 史歩 (Shiho) and he found at least one (male) photographer online with this name.
  • I think it could be obvious by now what I'm driving at: could it be that Shiho Miyano's grandfather is a possible candidate for the identity of "Ano Kata" and that he is also called Shiho Miyano, but written in a different (male) way - a name that she inherited from him in a female variant? Did he write his own name in a "female manner" as a (moderate) cover back then because he's "overly cautious", as Vermouth describes the boss to be? Maybe he wasn't as cautious back then; we don't really have a clue when that guest book entry is from. Maybe the name also inspired the one of his granddaughter later on. Whatever the circumstances are, a few thoughts are quite interesting about that, in my opinion:

    • In the context of this idea, the "full name" of "Ano Kata" did indeed appear in the manga, as Gosho Aoyama had told us: once referring to himself and several times as the name of his granddaughter.
    • Could Shiho's inheritance of the name explain the organization's favoritism of her, in contrary to Akemi?
    • And considering Akemi: There is an interesting parallelism in her - the other Miyano sibling - "inheriting" the name of her old, male professor, Masami Hirota, to use it as a pseudonym. Maybe she was inspired by her own sister and grandfather to do so (while not necessarily knowing about him being the boss, that is).

      • I furthermore tried to look up the spelling of "both Masami Hirotas“ and found out that Akemi's pseudonym is written "広田 雅美“ and the name of the professor is allegedly written "広田 正美“. "Allegedly" because my source for the latter one is a spanish Wiki. I can find nothing else about this and the german Manga replaced the name at the Hirota house with the latin spelling. Can someone (de)confirm Prof. Masami Hirota being written like that? If so, it could strengthen this potential hint for Shiho Miyano as a inherited name with a different Kanji even more.
    • Vermouth is described as Anokata's "favourite" - could it be that there is an analogy to Atsushi and his foreign wife, who got some parallels to Vermouth too? Could the son take after his father in this regard? Did he perhaps even introduce them to each other during Elena's studies in Japan?
    • If you consider Atsushi leaving his home around 30 years ago for "a big research facility“ (which is assumed to be the organization) while supposing that he was at least 18 back then - just like his daughter is now, which would make him at least 48 at present - and continue to speculate that his father (the grandfather Shiho Miyano who is at the core of this theory) was also at least 18 during the conception or birth of his son, he would be close to 70 or older now. That's indeed an age a lot of people consider fitting for Anokata, let alone the project the organization works on "for half a century", making him at least 20 back when it started.
    • The implication of an inheritance is also that Gramps Miyano already died at the age of around 40, give or take. Why was it never being expounded upon this information? Could this idea open the possibility of him faking his death three decades ago?
    • A rather meta-like thought, but: Conan instantly dismissed the Shiho Miyano in the guest book being the one he knows and never talked about that with her (on-panel). Maybe it would set some things in motion too early if he did and she'd tell something important about her gramps?
    • The emotional impact would be devastating for Ai, I think, if she realized that her own grandfather is the head of the biggest danger in her life and the people she holds dear. There are not many characters who would have this effect right now in Detective Conan, which could be a powerful moment from a narrative standpoint. It would also be a slight twist of the stale "the father is the big bad" trope.
    • Another meta-thing: "Shiho" (although being written as "Shihô" again in this case) in Zen Buddhism, defined as "[...] becoming part of the dharma lineage of his or her teacher". Independent from this, my speculation in the context of this idea would go in a similar direction, that Shiho Miyano (the granddaughter) took over the research of her parents (based on their papers that survived the fire), just like her parents maybe took over that research (see Vermouth: "Your parents, who took over that foolish research [...]") from Atsushi's father, Shiho Miyano (the grandfather) who is Anokata and can't continue that work himself anymore (for whatever reason).

Phew, uh... as you can see, it's not a real theory, rather than a fleeting idea consisting more of questions than hard facts. But I've written it down in the german board and translated it to English now because it was something I didn't want to forget about and because, who knows, maybe it inspires some people to find other ideas/theories.

To all the Japan(ese) experts on here: what do you think about it?
To everyone: is this idea imaginable or is there a blunder somewhere, making it impossible?
Last edited by Spimer on March 1st, 2017, 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jimmy_kud0_tv2
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Re: (New?) idea about „a no kata“

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » March 1st, 2017, 1:14 pm

Kan Kōhi wrote:
[*]Then I remembered that back on Bikuni (the „Mermaid Island“) Conan Edogawa and Heiji Hattori flipped through some of the old guest books and Conan notices the name of „Shiho Miyano“, while thinking „Shiho Miyano... Isn't that her real name? But this has to be a stupid coincidence. She's not the type to go crazy about eternal youth and beauty...“ (translated from the german version). What if he was right about the person who signed there [i]not
being Ai - but not about the coincidence?
[*]Doing a bit of further research after looking that up I found out that Shiho normally is a female name, but that there are (differently written and admittedly probably really rare) variants of it that can also be used for male persons.
  • The user Corab from the german board DCDP told me that the variant I found (史峰) is spelt Shihô (しほう), while the Shiho we know is spelt Shiho (しほ). But he also told me that there nevertheless is a variant written 史歩 (Shiho) and he found at least one (male) photographer online with this name.


We can see the Kanji written in the guestbook pretty clearly, and they are repeated in Conan's thought bubble. Its the same kanji used for Shiho (Ai)'s name. So the only way your theory could work is if they had the exact same name.
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Kan Kōhi
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Re: (New?) idea about „a no kata“

Postby Kan Kōhi » March 1st, 2017, 1:32 pm

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:We can see the Kanji written in the guestbook pretty clearly, and they are repeated in Conan's thought bubble. Its the same kanji used for Shiho (Ai)'s name.

I know, that's why I suppose that - in the context of this idea - the grandfather intentionally wrote down his name in different Kanji (a female variant) of his own name, and this intentionally „female written Shiho“ is the name used for his granddaughter later on:

Kan Kōhi wrote:Did he write his own name in a „female manner“ as a (moderate) cover back then because he's „overly cautious“, as Vermouth describes the boss to be?


The reason for writing his name in a different manner in the guest book, even in a different gender, could be to cover his traces in such a way, that if someone would research about a person named "Shiho Miyano" taking part in the tombola surrounding the "immortality arrows" (because you had to write down your name in the guest book for that), he would get the reply that there indeed was such a person back then, but the way his name is written differently from the real spelling would make tracing it back to him specifically difficult to impossible, I suppose. And this different spelling he used as a cover back then now is the way his granddaughter is used to be written.

I guess the misunderstanding resulted from me saying „Maybe the name also inspired the one of his granddaughter later on“. It would certainly have been the direct inspiration for her, or Atsushi and Elena coincidentally named her "Shiho" with the same Kanji as he used back then, which he saw as a sign and since favored her over Akemi, etc. There could be different explanations for that, which I can hardly narrow down, for lack of further evidence, I admit.
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Re: (New?) idea about „a no kata“

Postby Tantei San » March 1st, 2017, 1:50 pm

Kan Kōhi wrote:[*]And considering Akemi: There is an interesting parallelism in her - the other Miyano sibling - "inheriting" the name of her old, male professor, Masami Hirota, to use it as a pseudonym. Maybe she was inspired by her own sister and grandfather to do so (while not necessarly knowing about him being the boss, that is).

The name was fake in the Robbery case, and was used as a disguise so that no one would know her real name as well as her connections with BO.
[*]Vermouth is described as Anokata's „favourite“ - could it be that there is an analogy to Atsushi and his foreign wife, who got some parallels to Vermouth too? Could the son take after his father in this regard? Did he perhaps even introduce them to each other during Elena's studies in Japan?

I don't know who you are considering as "Foreign wife" but i will assume here to be Elena. As far as I can think most probably "Vermouth" as the codename given to say, Sharon/Chris Vineyard was a close 'relative' to the Boss(Relative to the fact that I can't describe what sort of relation the boss and vermouth hold) was one of the first Test Subject of the then, APTX-4869/Silver Bullet and that was the core reason as to why is looks so young even after 20 years.(Courtesy: The Amazing SpiderMan 2 - Now, If you remember the scene where Peter finds out about his father's Spider research, that, No matter who uses it, the Sample will work only on those having the same blood type of that of Richard parker.)Now ,why I gave that example here is because I assume that the Drug, If and only if, was being made for Boss's sole purpose he must have used 'Vermouth' as a bait to see what sort of reaction happens on her.
[*]If you consider Atsushi leaving his home around 30 years ago for „a big research facility“ (which is assumed to be the organization) while supposing that he was at least 18 back then - just like his daughter is now, which would make him at least 48 at present - and continue to speculate that his father (the grandfather Shiho Miyano who is at the core of this theory) was also at least 18 during the conception or birth of his son, he would be close to 70 or older now. That's indeed an age a lot of people consider fitting for Anokata, let alone the project the organization works on „for half a century“, making him at least 20 back when it started.

Tbh, If find it completely unacceptable that Atsushi at point of time moving out of his father's house to go some where else, only to land back at his father's crime syndicate. Also, I don't think that Atsushi was forced to work/study like that of Haibara and mind you it takes 4 years of Bachelor degree, 2 years masters degree(maybe more) and atleast 3-4 years of Doctorate. And it is healthy to assume that instead of 18 Atsushi would be around 27-28 in the least case scenario(that being he took all degrees without a drop year).So using his reason to leave the house as a mode of not only describing his age but also establishing relations like that, I don't pretty much agree with it.
Not only that, but the fact that everyone needs to be 18 at the time of starting a family seems way too weird.

[*]The implication of an inheritance is also that Gramps Miyano already died at the age of around 40, give or take. Why was it never being expounded upon this information?

I think that anything was never stressed over that fact of him being dead was because -
1) It was irrelevant.
2)And once, Atsushi left the house, he was never recalled as such.

Could this idea open the possibility of him faking his death three decades ago?

Why is everyone so obssessed with faking deaths now and then, Anyway, Whether, He or The Boss ever died will only be revealed when we enter the Boss's Arc.
[*]A rather meta-like thought, but: Conan instantly dismissed the Shiho Miyano in the guest book being the one he knows and never talked about that with her (on-panel). Maybe it would set some things in motion too early if he did and she'd tell something important about her gramps?

Mistook it to be the one he knows, is that what are you trying to say? I mean, come on, If he knew about the fact that she was associated with the BO and that it is completely possible that she was there to gather information over the drug she was creating.Then, there is no motive of Conan going about asking her, though, He should've asked her after that case.
[*]The emotional impact would be devastating for Ai, I think, if she realized that her own grandfather is the head of the biggest danger in her life and the people she holds dear.

I don't think that would be the case, because it wasn't ever shown anything about her grandfather-related that she ever had some sort of feelings towards anyone as such. All that was, for, her Mother and sister.
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Spimer
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Re: (New?) idea about "Ano Kata"

Postby Spimer » March 1st, 2017, 2:17 pm

Welcome to the forums!

You were right in mistrusting the source of Professor Hirota's Japanese name because it's wrong.

The correct spelling is: "広田正巳".

Other than that, your theory feels a bit too contrived and gasping at straws. Feels more of a hypothesis in some aspects.

You bring up good points of Japanese kanji wordplay (which we know Gosho uses in some tricks) but maybe the answer is simpler than that.

Otherwise, I applaud all the effort you've done to look into the matter.
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Kan Kōhi
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Re: (New?) idea about „a no kata“

Postby Kan Kōhi » March 1st, 2017, 2:50 pm

Thanks for your reply!

Tantei San wrote:
Kan Kōhi wrote:[*]And considering Akemi: There is an interesting parallelism in her - the other Miyano sibling - "inheriting" the name of her old, male professor, Masami Hirota, to use it as a pseudonym. Maybe she was inspired by her own sister and grandfather to do so (while not necessarly knowing about him being the boss, that is).

The name was fake in the Robbery case, and was used as a disguise so that no one would know her real name as well as her connections with BO.

Yes, that's right and just what I said. :) But it wouldn't destroy the parallelism I showed up; that Akemi chose a name from an older, male professor (maybe even in a spelling variant), which could open up the possibility, that this pseudonym - the disguise you talk about - could have been inspired by her sister and their grandfather.

[*]Vermouth is described as Anokata's „favourite“ - could it be that there is an analogy to Atsushi and his foreign wife, who got some parallels to Vermouth too? Could the son take after his father in this regard? Did he perhaps even introduce them to each other during Elena's studies in Japan?

I don't know who you are considering as "Foreign wife" but i will assume here to be Elena.

Yep, I was talking about Elena - sorry for the confusing wording. ^^'

As far as I can think most probably "Vermouth" as the codename given to say, Sharon/Chris Vineyard was a close 'relative' to the Boss(Relative to the fact that I can't describe what sort of relation the boss and vermouth hold) was one of the first Test Subject of the then, APTX-4869/Silver Bullet and that was the core reason as to why is looks so young even after 20 years.(Courtesy: The Amazing SpiderMan 2 - Now, If you remember the scene where Peter finds out about his father's Spider research, that, No matter who uses it, the Sample will work only on those having the same blood type of that of Richard parker.)

From where did you get the information that Vermouth was the first test subject of APTX 4869/Silver Bullet? Or was that just an assumption on your part?

Now ,why I gave that example here is because I assume that the Drug, If and only if, was being made for Boss's sole purpose he must have used 'Vermouth' as a bait to see what sort of reaction happens on her.

I don't really understand the last part, sorry - could you clarifiy? And I think it's not known for which purpose or for whom the drug was made.

[*]If you consider Atsushi leaving his home around 30 years ago for „a big research facility“ (which is assumed to be the organization) while supposing that he was at least 18 back then - just like his daughter is now, which would make him at least 48 at present - and continue to speculate that his father (the grandfather Shiho Miyano who is at the core of this theory) was also at least 18 during the conception or birth of his son, he would be close to 70 or older now. That's indeed an age a lot of people consider fitting for Anokata, let alone the project the organization works on „for half a century“, making him at least 20 back when it started.

Tbh, If find it completely unacceptable that Atsushi at point of time moving out of his father's house to go some where else, only to land back at his father's crime syndicate.

It's difficult to say right now if he was already part of his father's organization in this scenario or even knew of it before. And even if he was, he didn't necessarily "land back"; it could have just been that he was moved to somewhere else, a place which offered a better surrounding to continue the research. And I guess a research lab (it could have been a new one back then - yes, I know, this is an assumption, too - or it was in the grandfather's possession before - there are no hints about this unfortunately) is a way better location to work than a simple one family house. ^^

Also, I don't think that Atsushi was forced to work/study like that of Haibara and mind you it takes 4 years of Bachelor degree, 2 years masters degree(maybe more) and atleast 3-4 years of Doctorate. And it is healthy to assume that instead of 18 Atsushi would be around 27-28 in the least case scenario(that being he took all degrees without a drop year).So using his reason to leave the house as a mode of not only describing his age but also establishing relations like that, I don't pretty much agree with it.
Not only that, but the fact that everyone needs to be 18 at the time of starting a family seems way too weird.

I was just using lower limits to show what time intervals should at least have passed; hence the annoying use of "at least" all the time in my post. ^^ I'm sorry for not mentioning this, I should have clarified. I admit that it would destroy the part about the grandfather's "early" death, but it leaves the idea as such untouched - it would even strenghthen the part about Anokata's old age. Furthermore, I also don't think that they were just 18 all the time; but we don't know the ages at all, so we have to assume the lowest possible age for such scenarios and I (subjectively, I have to say) thought 18 is a good bottom value. But I also believe that they were older, respectively.

[*]The implication of an inheritance is also that Gramps Miyano already died at the age of around 40, give or take. Why was it never being expounded upon this information?

I think that anything was never stressed over that fact of him being dead was because -
1) It was irrelevant.
2)And once, Atsushi left the house, he was never recalled as such.

1) Indeed possible, but again, hard to say what's relevant and what's not in DC right now. There is nothing in the Manga or from Gosho's Q&As (that I know of) that tells us to disregard it, so I think it's fair to include it in ideas like this until proven otherwise; especially in a detail-oriented Mystery Manga like this, where fleeting stuff like this could contain the most important hints.
2) Are you referring to the fact that the grandfather was never mentioned again after that point? That's another thing difficult to assess, in my opinion... in the end, you could counter every Anokata theory built around someone just mentioned in passing or who appeared just for a short amount of time like this.
Or do you mean Atsushi never returning to his house? In this case I don't really know what this disproves; particularly in view of the fact that he did return to his home together with Elena and Akemi around 20 years ago. ^^'

Could this idea open the possibility of him faking his death three decades ago?

Why is everyone so obssessed with faking deaths now and then, Anyway, Whether, He or The Boss ever died will only be revealed when we enter the Boss's Arc.

Well, I suppose the "obsession" of some people is thanks to the fact that we already had faked deaths in Detective Conan and that it's one very popular element in the majority of Mystery fiction. We just can't rule out something like this, whether the boss (Gramps Miyano or not) faked his death in the past to hide completely; especially after we are told that he's "overly cautious" or "breaks down the bridges he passed" (depending on the translation).

[*]A rather meta-like thought, but: Conan instantly dismissed the Shiho Miyano in the guest book being the one he knows and never talked about that with her (on-panel). Maybe it would set some things in motion too early if he did and she'd tell something important about her gramps?

Mistook it to be the one he knows, is that what are you trying to say? I mean, come on, If he knew about the fact that she was associated with the BO and that it is completely possible that she was there to gather information over the drug she was creating.Then, there is no motive of Conan going about asking her, though, He should've asked her after that case.

Could you please clarify what you meant? I don't really get it; maybe it's just too late over here. ^^'
I just think it's generally weird he never talked with her about that find which automatically poses the question why he didn't, especially considering that the guestbook entry probably has it's meaning, being inside the plot.

[*]The emotional impact would be devastating for Ai, I think, if she realized that her own grandfather is the head of the biggest danger in her life and the people she holds dear.

I don't think that would be the case, because it wasn't ever shown anything about her grandfather-related that she ever had some sort of feelings towards anyone as such. All that was, for, her Mother and sister.

I can agree with you on that; she even just barely knew her parents and never talked about her grandfather, let alone reacted to the mention of him back in the Dejima case. It's just that I think it would be slightly more shocking for most people if its their own grandpa than if it was some random character mentioned in passing or appearing for a short period of time without any relation to any important character in the series.

Spimer wrote:Welcome to the forums!

You were right in mistrusting the source of Professor Hirota's Japanese name because it's wrong.

The correct spelling is: "広田正巳".

Other than that, your theory feels a bit too contrived and gasping at straws. Feels more of a hypothesis in some aspects.

You bring up good points of Japanese kanji wordplay (which we know Gosho uses in some tricks) but maybe the answer is simpler than that.

Otherwise, I applaud all the effort you've done to look into the matter.

Thanks to you too for the reply, the nice welcome and thanks a lot for the correct spelling of course!

I agree about the theory sounding contrived and that it maybe looks into several details too much, which makes it weak overall - that's why I cautiously called it an idea rather than a theory, because it lacks some fundamental proof to make it... I don't know, more cohesive and "aha!"-inducing. ^^
But I was fascinated by some of the things and the parallels that opened up. I'm unsure myself whether this theory is really feasible, but if it gives somebody notions (may it be for this mind game or other ones), I'm content nevertheless. :) I just think it's kinda fun to play around with ideas like this now and then.
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Re: (New?) idea about "Ano Kata"

Postby kkuuddoo » March 1st, 2017, 4:24 pm

This is a very Intersting Idea you have here
You paid good attention to detail, and its quite reasonable from one side
However as we all know there are a couple of ideas and theories out there, and we still don't have a huge stepping stone towards the truth, so your idea is still available in a way, maybe, we still don't know what gosho has in store for us.

I give you a hand of applause, because I do like the idea in a way, especially the Kanji character play part, that is mainly what pulled me to liking your idea.

However, I have a few questions concerning your idea
1- I didn't understand why the Boss will favor Vermouth if he is the Miyano grandfather
Is it because she is one of the first successes for the BO research ( assuming why she does not age because one test worked on her )
She is the only living research surviver and she shows signs of the success of the research ? she is the only research hope ?
2- Assuming Haibara thoughts about her parents "accident" isn't really an accident true
Why would Miyano Grandpa kill his son and his wife and leave his two grandkids without parents
Not caring about their suffering, not having a problem with killing Akemi, which led shiho to escape and BO went after her to KILL her
* That makes him a very heartless Father & Grandfather, IMO
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Re: (New?) idea about „a no kata“

Postby Tantei San » March 2nd, 2017, 2:20 am

Kan Kōhi wrote:
From where did you get the information that Vermouth was the first test subject of APTX 4869/Silver Bullet? Or was that just an assumption on your part?

I don't really understand the last part, sorry - could you clarifiy? And I think it's not known for which purpose or for whom the drug was made.


I assumed it that way, that, the possibility maybe that the Boss is a conservative guy and since he made a drug for his own use, and if it is a genetic drug(i.e, Only works on his blood-same type)And,If Vermouth is close possibly some sort of acquaintance, then, vermouth might be used"As a mice for the experiment".
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Re: (New?) idea about "Ano Kata"

Postby Absenta » March 4th, 2017, 4:14 pm

It´s a good viewpoint.

It´s interesting to think about the boss in a physical way. I don´t think he is a gramp, I think he is actually a 7 year old boy and thus he only shows his real form to Vermouth. We always think in the boss as the shadow criminal, but it would be funny and coherent that he´d be like Conan. Because in a narrative way they are nemesis, Vermouth would be anokata´s Ran and that´s why she knows that Shinichi is the only one that can face him.

Let´s think abouth the project origins...., in the series they said it started 50 years ago...the series are settled in the 90´ originally, so this affirmation coincides with 2WW and whe know that was a time of a lot of experimentation (nazis). It´s possible that the project started in this context. I assume that anokata is british but could knew some nazis and emmigrate to Japan to settle this experimentation stuff here (allies). Although this is a risky theory and I don´t think Gosho would introduce this kind of stuff in DC.

¿Do you think Vermouth, aside the boss, as something to do with Elena Miyano and Mary Sera?
She could be her sister, or even her mother, but that would make her Ai´s auntie or grandma!
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Re: (New?) idea about "Ano Kata"

Postby Kan Kōhi » March 5th, 2017, 7:09 am

@kkuuddoo
Thanks for your reply and the nice comment!

1- I didn't understand why the Boss will favor Vermouth if he is the Miyano grandfather
Is it because she is one of the first successes for the BO research ( assuming why she does not age because one test worked on her )
She is the only living research surviver and she shows signs of the success of the research ? she is the only research hope ?

Honestly, I can't tell, because I don't have any hints about that. Maybe it was one of the things you've mentioned or it was something else. I just wanted to show that, if - in the context of this idea (I must sound like a broken record, sorry :D) - we assume that Ano kata is Gramps Miyano and Vermouth is Ano kata's favorite, then maybe there is a reason for his son also choosing a western woman, Elena. Kinda like a play on "Like father, like son".

2- Assuming Haibara thoughts about her parents "accident" isn't really an accident true
Why would Miyano Grandpa kill his son and his wife and leave his two grandkids without parents
Not caring about their suffering, not having a problem with killing Akemi, which led shiho to escape and BO went after her to KILL her
* That makes him a very heartless Father & Grandfather, IMO

That's indeed true, but this is one of those points where it's hard to tell (for me) if this is really a disqualifier, because there have been family murders in Detective Conan before. Maybe he really is such a bastard, so to speak ^^; but I'm with you as far as we can't really tell whether the grandpa was/is such a person, considering we know practically nothing of him.

Tantei san wrote:I assumed it that way, that, the possibility maybe that the Boss is a conservative guy and since he made a drug for his own use, and if it is a genetic drug(i.e, Only works on his blood-same type)And,If Vermouth is close possibly some sort of acquaintance, then, vermouth might be used"As a mice for the experiment".

Ah, now I understand, thanks for clarifying. But I fear that these are too much assumptions for an effective counterargument. We just don't know if the boss is a conservative guy, or if the drug is made just for him or whether Vermouth was used as a guinea pig.

@Absenta
Thanks to you too for your reply!

I think it's just as hard to tell whether the boss could be a child - just as difficult as saying whether he could be Grandpa Miyano. :D I don't really believe in either one until there is more proof (but on the other hand, I don't really have a fixed candidate for the boss, anyway...).

The idea about the root of the organization going back to World War II and/or experiments by the Nazis or Imperial Japan is an interesting one, but again, there isn't really any proof for that (except maybe Gin's german car... XD Just kidding. Gosho already said that it's just that he likes it, I think). The whole thing gets even more difficult considering Detective Conan's floating timeline. The present of DC always happens "right now", so "half a century ago" technically isn't the second World War "anymore". I admit it's a rather complicated concept, especially for a work like a Mystery series; but that's also one of the reasons why I think that nothing (important) of the meta-plot of DC will be tied to fixed historical events, at least not in a way that they are specified in an interval relative to the Manga's present.

¿Do you think Vermouth, aside the boss, as something to do with Elena Miyano and Mary Sera?

Hmm, difficult (again). I could speculate that Vermouth and Elena had something to do with each other by both being members of the organization, but I'm unsure about Mary. Could be, I don't know. ^^

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