Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

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Nemomon
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby Nemomon » March 2nd, 2017, 9:56 am

About her knowing that the golf player will murder someone, I don't think we should judge her that she didn't do anything to prevent that. It is not that she knew for sure that a murder attempt will happen, and also she didn't have any proof that it will happen. So You think she should have to go to the police station with "I think my neighbour will murder his ex. Why? Because he said their dinner will be their last one." But they're ex for a reason! It wouldn't be strange for them to have a last ever dinner...

Therefore we really should not jump into conclusion that she knew about murder and did nothing. Perhaps she knew, but she didn't have any ways to prevent it.

She may have some evil sides, because we know she isn't really a teacher but skilled in fighting person, and because of job she had she had to control her emotions and keep cool during all extreme situations, but it doesn't mean that she's purely evil.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby Themaninarmor » March 2nd, 2017, 10:20 am

Spoiler:
the stain in her pants.... is it a lighter?


This "don't speak ill about her!! I like her" remind me with what conan said to haibara about okiya... "Someone who loves sherlock holmes cannot be a bad guy".

Well after all the last scene resembling okiya's case (ikkaku rock) with a same scenario and same victim too... :D

Maybe that was the reason haibara like Rumi... :D
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 2nd, 2017, 10:45 am

Her expression looked pretty genuine to me when she said "Stab her". I think it's reasonable to assume that Rumi is capable of killing children. In this case however, it was most likely meant as a distraction, and her affection to the kids, including Haibara(who was just suspecting her to be BO-affiliated), seems to suggest that her care for the children is genuine, and not an act.

The suspicious object looks awfully a lot like a shogi tile, but with a slightly altered shape from a normal tile(which could be an intentional alteration, since it could be something else). If Rumi is Asaka, and she was originally Kohji's bodyguard(hence the memento being a Shogi tile), then I can't see how Asaka would be able to know about Rum's prosthetic eye(because so far, we haven't gotten a clue to her meeting Rum after his accident). The BO sense cannot be ignored either.

Vermouth still makes the most sense to me at the moment, since she is almost literally Rumi in characterization, and she is one of the two females that are confirmed to have triggered Haibara's sense. Conan seems to really think that her eye is disfunctional(looks like Gosho wasn't misleading us with Conan's thoughts as I initially thought), but that's definitely a red-herring to make her look like Rum, since her "bumpings" and "look-around" can be easily explained by other means. Haibara's behavior about Rumi looks like Gosho's way of saying that Rumi has good intentions, but very controversial means, due to her background(besides, Vermouth is his favorite BO member, so that was like Gosho's second "Sherry's soliloquy" within File 989, after the "don't try this at home"). If the object is a Shogi tile, then I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Sharon is Kohji's secret wife. Ofc, it doesn't have to be Shogi tile either(since it still looks a bit different).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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k11chi
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby k11chi » March 2nd, 2017, 11:06 am

Nemomon wrote:About her knowing that the golf player will murder someone, I don't think we should judge her that she didn't do anything to prevent that. It is not that she knew for sure that a murder attempt will happen, and also she didn't have any proof that it will happen. So You think she should have to go to the police station with "I think my neighbour will murder his ex. Why? Because he said their dinner will be their last one." But they're ex for a reason! It wouldn't be strange for them to have a last ever dinner...

Therefore we really should not jump into conclusion that she knew about murder and did nothing. Perhaps she knew, but she didn't have any ways to prevent it.

She may have some evil sides, because we know she isn't really a teacher but skilled in fighting person, and because of job she had she had to control her emotions and keep cool during all extreme situations, but it doesn't mean that she's purely evil.

She did do something about it though. She took Conan to witness the crime scene, waiting for it to happen. It's possible she wants to see if Conan can prevent the crimes while knowing nothing beforehand to make herself feel good about Amanda's or Kohji's death. Maybe she wants to keep playing these scenarios over and over again to make a point out of it to herself.
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 2nd, 2017, 11:14 am

k11chi wrote:She did do something about it though. She took Conan to witness the crime scene, waiting for it to happen. It's possible she wants to see if Conan can prevent the crimes while knowing nothing beforehand to make herself feel good about Amanda's or Kohji's death. Maybe she wants to keep playing these scenarios over and over again to make a point out of it to herself.

That's an interesting interpretation.
I doubt it though.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
dccd
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby dccd » March 2nd, 2017, 11:16 am

How does "Rumi is Vermouth " and Ais " Shes not bad" are supposed to fit?
Until now there was absolutely no sign of interest from Rumi towards Ai (besides the drop-out-of-the-car thing, but that was intended to get a Conan-dialogue).

Anyways... did u notice that Rum doesnt seem to like right eyes?
Kuroda lost his one, Rumi potentially too..,
Wakita... no wait... its his left eye who is hurt.
Right/right vs left... :) ok Gosho, we got it.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Wachi
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby Wachi » March 2nd, 2017, 11:25 am

Spoiler:
I think that Haibara might have recognised Rumi because she is not that kind of person who would trust someone easily.
When she realized about Rumi's right eye, she started looking at her and maybe noticed something that hasn't been shown to us since the file was focusing on the case.
I really don't know why she would recognise Rumi, but I have noticed that, when she found out about Kohji's case, she knew Amanda Hughes and her connection with Fbi and Cia (it doesn't seem like it's written in the article), but why would she know? Maybe the Hughes family has BO connection as well and Haibara knew them while she was studying in Usa.
Tantei San
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby Tantei San » March 2nd, 2017, 11:57 am

ShadowNeo wrote:To be honest, I really like Rumi Wakasas cringe way of solving problems just as rescuing Ayumi.

Even I really liked that death-scare she gave. It was like 'give it to me' or 'leave everything right now', AF hypnotising him then and there.
I think most people would say she is evil now after seeing that side of her, but I personally think she is definitely on Conans side.
BUT what i am not sure about is: Conan mentions something with her right eye.. I went throught the chapters and actually did not notice anything weird... Can someone maybe explain to me? Maybe I am just blind?

I don't, tbh. But.One thing is for sure, either she is using Conan as a part of her duty, or using his wit for her own use.
As for the Working/Non-Working Right eye of hers, what he wanted to say, was the way Rumi was acting while turning her face,suspected her of not having a working eye.

Serinox wrote:Why would you only now say she is evil, when she in her last case, she let a murder happen and didn't even tell the police what she saw afterwards. Maybe she is somehow on the same side as Conan, but she is not good.

Nemomon wrote:About her knowing that the golf player will murder someone, I don't think we should judge her that she didn't do anything to prevent that. It is not that she knew for sure that a murder attempt will happen, and also she didn't have any proof that it will happen. So You think she should have to go to the police station with "I think my neighbour will murder his ex. Why? Because he said their dinner will be their last one." But they're ex for a reason! It wouldn't be strange for them to have a last ever dinner...

Therefore we really should not jump into conclusion that she knew about murder and did nothing. Perhaps she knew, but she didn't have any ways to prevent it.


I agree with Nemomon, that she did not take any action because not only it could backfire on her, but it could rule out the possibility of bringing Conan to her home, which she had planned in advanced.
Though, You also have to look for the fact that not only did she anticipated that she need to bring Conan to her home for her work any way possible but also the fact that the whole 'Detective Boys' could get along with him and that if she needs his help she needs to serve them as well, to the point she brought extra cups and plates with her. Also, Did anyone stress the fact that as to why did she needed to bring extra cups and plates, I mean, If she was living in her house for sometime, she should know people can/would come to meet her, and that she needs to have extra utensils in her home. The fact she didn't,makes me think that she is using that house temporarily.

ShadowNeo wrote:I guess I misssaid something. What I was talking about Rumi is that people are going to judge her on all the "evil" acts she done already, the one in this case was just an example. And I would say she is either someone completely nice with a cringe way of acting OR someone who just wants to reach a specific goal (which I don't know what it is) and to reach that she "abuses" Conan & co. and pretends to be on their side.

Ah I see! So she can't see Ayumi until Ayumi gets in the sight of her left eye, which means she didn't see her with the right eye, ok.


I will go with the 2nd part, She is someone with a goal which she needs to achieve.Though, Abusing Conan&Co. seems quite hurtful,here.I think she is only using Conan and not the whole of DB.

Nemomon wrote:
She may have some evil sides, because we know she isn't really a teacher but skilled in fighting person, and because of job she had she had to control her emotions and keep cool during all extreme situations, but it doesn't mean that she's purely evil.


Whether or not she is evil or really a teacher we will know later on. Though, yes, from the looks of it, she sure is trained in some sort of combat arts, etc. But what if she was like Ran. that she also, learnt judo,karate,tae-kwon-do in her school or did continue to a certain level.


MeiTanteixX wrote:
The suspicious object looks awfully a lot like a shogi tile, but with a slightly altered shape from a normal tile(which could be an intentional alteration, since it could be something else).

If Rumi is Asaka, and she was originally Kohji's bodyguard(hence the memento being a Shogi tile), then I can't see how Asaka would be able to know about Rum's prosthetic eye(because so far, we haven't gotten a clue to her meeting Rum after his accident). The BO sense cannot be ignored either.


Asaka was Amanda's bodyguard not Kohji's my friend, I agree with the shogi tile being a memento and the fact that she wants revenge from the BO who took away kohji from her.
Vermouth still makes the most sense to me at the moment, since she is almost literally Rumi in characterization, and she is one of the two females that are confirmed to have triggered Haibara's sense. Conan seems to really think that her eye is disfunctional(looks like Gosho wasn't misleading us with Conan's thoughts as I initially thought), but that's definitely a red-herring to make her look like Rum, since her "bumpings" and "look-around" can be easily explained by other means. Haibara's behavior about Rumi looks like Gosho's way of saying that Rumi has good intentions, but very controversial means, due to her background(besides, Vermouth is his favorite BO member, so that was like Gosho's second "Sherry's soliloquy" within File 989, after the "don't try this at home"). If the object is a Shogi tile, then I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Sharon is Kohji's secret wife. Ofc, it doesn't have to be Shogi tile either(since it still looks a bit different).

Firstly, If Vermouth=Rumi.
1) What took Haibara so long for her BO-sense to trigger, besides we know Gin and vermouth are the ones who she instantly recognise.
2) How(& Why) did Haibara feel good about Rumi suddenly that to the point she debated Conan for it (in some sense, I couldn't find the precise word,sorry)
I think the reason she was so haphazard while Ayumi called her because:-
1. She was in her own imaginary world thinking something about and that she didn't hear, see and keep a track of people's position.
2. Ayumi is quite small for Rumi's height and with the first point in play,it made her difficult enough to identify her position and hence the 'Here-There' look.
And, At one point you place Vermouth=Rumi and at another you say that Sharon(Vermouth) was Kohji's wife etc. I am not getting these Vermouth-related points of your theory.
(You can either reply or msg me in private).


@Serinox,
As suggested by your posted pictures
But you cannot rule out the fact,
If you see the latest file- 989
Where Rumi hugs crying Ayumi, even she gives a tear or two, from which I can rule out the possibility of her having a fake right eye.
kentasaiba
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby kentasaiba » March 2nd, 2017, 12:21 pm

But Rumi was willing to let Ayumi die. So... she cant be a bad person, since we all would allow it too, right?
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dccd
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby dccd » March 2nd, 2017, 12:22 pm

No you cant.
Tear-production has nothing to do with a fake eye.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
k11chi
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby k11chi » March 2nd, 2017, 12:22 pm

dccd wrote:How does "Rumi is Vermouth " and Ais " Shes not bad" are supposed to fit?
Until now there was absolutely no sign of interest from Rumi towards Ai (besides the drop-out-of-the-car thing, but that was intended to get a Conan-dialogue).


If she got over her fear towards Vermouth it makes sense that she's tired of her and wants to deal with her alone without Conan. Maybe Ai even thinks that Rumi is Vermouth even if she isn't.
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Tantei San
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby Tantei San » March 2nd, 2017, 12:29 pm

dccd wrote:No you cant.
Tear-production has nothing to do with a fake eye.

Is it? really? Explain.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby Wakarimashita » March 2nd, 2017, 12:33 pm

kentasaiba wrote:But Rumi was willing to let Ayumi die. So... she cant be a bad person, since we all would allow it too, right?


Well I would and I'm not a bad person. :P
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k11chi
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby k11chi » March 2nd, 2017, 12:35 pm

Tantei San wrote:
dccd wrote:No you cant.
Tear-production has nothing to do with a fake eye.

Is it? really? Explain.

As long as the lacrimal sacs aren't removed too or destroyed, they will still produce tears. The tears go through the tear ducts into the eye sockets and nasal cavity. Depending on how the eyes were removed, it's possible that the opening into the socket will be blocked, so the tears will all go into the nasal passage. But it's also possible that they remain open, and let tears into the sockets, where they pool when your head is leaned back or flow out when it's leaned forward. This is important for glass eyes and other eye replacements that have to be kept lubricated or they would chafe the tissue of the socket.
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 987-989

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 2nd, 2017, 12:52 pm

dccd wrote:How does "Rumi is Vermouth " and Ais " Shes not bad" are supposed to fit?
Until now there was absolutely no sign of interest from Rumi towards Ai (besides the drop-out-of-the-car thing, but that was intended to get a Conan-dialogue).

Haibara didn't say "She's not bad", she said "I like Wakasa-sensei". Sounded like both Haibara's and Gosho's words at the same time(Gosho uses Haibara as a character that expresses his thoughts after all).

Tantei San wrote:Asaka was Amanda's bodyguard not Kohji's my friend, I agree with the shogi tile being a memento and the fact that she wants revenge from the BO who took away kohji from her.

Which is why I said:
MeiTanteixX wrote:If Rumi is Asaka, and she was originally Kohji's bodyguard(hence the memento being a Shogi tile),...


Tantei San wrote:Firstly, If Vermouth=Rumi.
1) What took Haibara so long for her BO-sense to trigger, besides we know Gin and vermouth are the ones who she instantly recognise.
2) How(& Why) did Haibara feel good about Rumi suddenly that to the point she debated Conan for it (in some sense, I couldn't find the precise word,sorry)
I think the reason she was so haphazard while Ayumi called her because:-
1. She was in her own imaginary world thinking something about and that she didn't hear, see and keep a track of people's position.
2. Ayumi is quite small for Rumi's height and with the first point in play,it made her difficult enough to identify her position and hence the 'Here-There' look.
And, At one point you place Vermouth=Rumi and at another you say that Sharon(Vermouth) was Kohji's wife etc. I am not getting these Vermouth-related points of your theory.
(You can either reply or msg me in private).


1) The only answer we have to that is that she has kept her guard down ever since her fake death in Mystery train(File 956), which affected her ability and therefore couldn't sense Vermouth during File 852. The fact she sensed anything just recently in File 987 makes me think that Rumi's grudge was strong enough that it couldn't bypass Haibara's BO trigger, which is a weak argument, since we still don't have proof to what Haibara is sensing(if it's a smell or strong intentions). The accurate way to rely on her ability is by trusting it when the effect happens, but not when it doesn't. In this case, it would imply that Rumi is in someway BO-related. The only confirmed females that Haibara has sensed in the past are Akemi and Vermouth. Gin is not confirmed.

2) I think it's, as I mentioned, because Rumi's relief and affection to the kids is genuine(not an act), and Haibara felt it, and thus decided to ignore her suspicion(Yes, it's a MAJOR Haibara development).

I agree with you on why she didn't notice Ayumi immediately. She was simply in deep thought and didn't know who was calling her.
My point was that if Vermouth was keeping a Shogi tile in her pocket, then maybe it's a memento of Kohji and she was actually his wife 17 years ago(in case you forgot, Sharon is Vermouth).
I'm merely stating some possible ideas, and I'm not really fully convinced that it's a Shogi tile either.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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