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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: May 28th, 2018, 8:41 pm
by jimmy_kud0_tv2
MeiTanteixX wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:He was born a stone monkey and worked his way up to demon status before forcing his way into Heavenly ranking....As for Wakasa Rumi I think this means that she will end up being Amanda Hughes from the Kohji case after having the original form of APTX used on her changing her from the stone monkey to the demon monkey king.
I personally don't see the direct parallel here, since working your way up to a Demon monkey status doesn't sound similar to becoming younger. Also, Amanda was reported to be found dead in the kohji case website, which means that we are forced to look at an overly elaborate fake death plan (that doesn't have the advantage of an unrecognizable corpse), which seems highly unlikely.
For me it was the imagery of Amanda potentially having white/grey hair associated with old age being the comparison to the stone monkey that Son Goku started out as, and then going through a change to become the "demon".

As for her "death", it doesn't have to be all that elaborate, as long as Rum believes that he killed her, and no one had ever seen her again, the BO would not have anything to worry about. The FBI/CIA/ect. could get her listed as dead without needing to show a body to anyone, its simply a single falsified document. As for the reports on the website, the narrative presented doesn't actually change depending on whether Amanda had survived or not. The facts are, that someone attempted to kill Kohji and Amanda, the article heavily implies that the writer assumes that Asaka is the culprit. If one of the victims, Amanda, had survived and was writing the website then she would not provide the information that she is alive because it doesn't change that someone attempted to kill her, and that she can approach anyone who visits the site to provide them with anymore information they need.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: May 28th, 2018, 11:40 pm
by blackmoon
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:He was born a stone monkey and worked his way up to demon status before forcing his way into Heavenly ranking....As for Wakasa Rumi I think this means that she will end up being Amanda Hughes from the Kohji case after having the original form of APTX used on her changing her from the stone monkey to the demon monkey king.
I personally don't see the direct parallel here, since working your way up to a Demon monkey status doesn't sound similar to becoming younger. Also, Amanda was reported to be found dead in the kohji case website, which means that we are forced to look at an overly elaborate fake death plan (that doesn't have the advantage of an unrecognizable corpse), which seems highly unlikely.
For me it was the imagery of Amanda potentially having white/grey hair associated with old age being the comparison to the stone monkey that Son Goku started out as, and then going through a change to become the "demon".

As for her "death", it doesn't have to be all that elaborate, as long as Rum believes that he killed her, and no one had ever seen her again, the BO would not have anything to worry about. The FBI/CIA/ect. could get her listed as dead without needing to show a body to anyone, its simply a single falsified document. As for the reports on the website, the narrative presented doesn't actually change depending on whether Amanda had survived or not. The facts are, that someone attempted to kill Kohji and Amanda, the article heavily implies that the writer assumes that Asaka is the culprit. If one of the victims, Amanda, had survived and was writing the website then she would not provide the information that she is alive because it doesn't change that someone attempted to kill her, and that she can approach anyone who visits the site to provide them with anymore information they need.


Hmm... so if it's possible for Amanda to be still alive and faked her death with the help of FBI\CIA, could it possibly be the same case for Kohji as well? Despite showing the picture of him dead... could it be someone else's body in disguise? This is getting wild... ;D

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: May 29th, 2018, 4:01 am
by MeiTanteixX
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:As for her "death", it doesn't have to be all that elaborate, as long as Rum believes that he killed her, and no one had ever seen her again, the BO would not have anything to worry about. The FBI/CIA/ect. could get her listed as dead without needing to show a body to anyone, its simply a single falsified document. As for the reports on the website, the narrative presented doesn't actually change depending on whether Amanda had survived or not. The facts are, that someone attempted to kill Kohji and Amanda, the article heavily implies that the writer assumes that Asaka is the culprit. If one of the victims, Amanda, had survived and was writing the website then she would not provide the information that she is alive because it doesn't change that someone attempted to kill her, and that she can approach anyone who visits the site to provide them with anymore information they need.
So high-up authoraties are involved in the cover-up... does this mean she is Japanese-American?

Actually no, the facts were that Amanda and Kohji died because of unknown causes (which we know is the aftermath of APTX), but the fact that Kohji had defensive wounds and a messy room changed these mysterious deaths to mysterious murders, and the only one that had an opportunity was the one that disappeared after being seen with Amanda, the one she called "Asaka".
Now, if you are changing the narrative here, that would mean that the FBI/CIA assumed the same that happened to Kohji would have happened to Amanda (dying unknown death) for some reason, and she would also have to convince them that she is in fact Amanda, after getting a Rumi appearance, which also seems like she would be unsuccessful with, because even if a close person in the FBI/CIA vouches for her, seems unlikely for that to affect the rest of them in time, in order to immediately change the case reports before the gist of it reaches public eyes (unless this is not their first "shrinking" case).

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 4:31 pm
by Tantei San
Why I think Rumi is RUM
(Note that all Puns are intended)
RUM the 2nd-in-Command of the Karasuma Organization a.k.a Black Organization who are supposed to be an organization under the deceased Renya Karasuma.
RUM is a single person but has Three different descriptions such as
1. An Effeminate Person
2. An Old Person
3. A Strong Person
The Manga series has particularly given us 3 suspects who one-way or other match to these description pretty much and thus becomes Difficult.
To put into perspective, How Important RUM as a character is, picture this. The whole timeline from the beginning of the series has been not more than 6 months approximately, and if you count all the encounters BO and Shinichi/Conan has gone through it’s no surprise that RUM came (from wherever he/she was, Boss will follow soon xD).
The 3 suspects are Wakita Kanenori, Hyoue Kuroda and Rumi Wakasa
While my Prime Suspect is Wakita Kanenori and I rule Kuroda out due to my reasons, It is interesting to see that a Character like Rumi Wakasa is Quite Intriguing.
Rumi Wakasa is the Deputy Homeroom teacher of the Class that Conan, Haibara & Co. are the students of. She is a new Teacher who came in the middle of year, while this may not be weird and as Haibara said THIS year, a lot of students have joined, so it may not be particularly out of the blue that a teacher also joined.
Now, coming to the point I think she could be RUM.
She has at times shown some exceptional physical strength. Her blows are quite hard enough to knock down a person in a single punch which for a Teacher is Weird and not something that can be associated, for a Homeroom Teacher moreover.
She is an effeminate character (sure) and strong which matches with the First description and hence she comes in the spotlight. Though her being strong is not that big of a shot that she is RUM, many women are strong.
Some panels have shown her with the APTX list, a list of all the people that the Apotoxin-4869 was used, dead or alive. Shinichi was the first person who was stated UNKNOWN and later changed to DEAD by Haibara to hide his identity.
A Homeroom Teacher having the APTX list, which is most likely only exclusive to the BO, is very blue (or black xD). Even if somehow She managed to get her hands on, UNLIKELY, she practically knows what’s on the list, to whom it belongs to and what she is doing with it.
Rumi is supposedly a teacher, who is Sloppy at the certain level.
Bumping her head here and there and acting all clumsy at first was a genuine act but later as she is shown signs of not just acting clumsy but also acting spontaneously as a strong fighter-like character with her over the top instincts in the most unfavorable situations are giving away that she as a character of in the alias of Rumi and her real character has a lot to offer, which we will see later and eventually that depends whether or not she sides with Conan which decides how she turns up.
The Burning Tent case, where Haibara notices the vague fact that She can’t see from her Right eye.
Gosho tends to foreshadow every suspect in a certain way, here being whiting a single left or right eye to give a sense of suspicion on that person. While one may not be able to understand what or who is the suspect but that foreshadowing at least 51% confirms that person’s involvement in it is major.
Moving On, the fact that Rumi is very close to Conan and Haibara, two people who have been fed the poison and survived, gives her an advantage over Kuroda and Wakita, in a certain sense, Its Kuroda who is the least of all to have a relation in any sense to Conan. Wakita is also kind of close to Kogoro due to his restaurant being close to Detective Agency.
Digging more in to the previous topics such as her Aforementioned Suspected Disguise which seems kinda odd and makes you think that her being sloppy is a part of that or due to her eye problems.
The only thing that can throw the Eye part off the track is that in a cetain frame she was shown having a Tear in her Right eye which was supposedly thought to be the non-working eye, but then again even an artificial eye can cause Tears so it may not be so much significant.
In a matter of Rumi, both Conan and Haibara are on opposite terms with her. While Conan believes she is strange and suspicious and he believes that she could be potential danger in a sense, On that other hand , Haibara seems to have a liking towards her even though she was uncertain and suspicious at first due to her eye.
I think Haibara’s liking is due to the fact that when Ayumi was captured by the basketball player cum killer in the Burning Tent Case her affection on recovering her back gave haibara a sister-motherly feeling which she seems to have forgotten and seeing her in that sense could have trigger those feelings for her.
Now then let’s talk about her Other Skills which are opposite of her certain Disguise, people believe.
Her Observational Skills, are top-notch. They are the type of skills one develops rather than have it from birth itself.
As seen some frames, she manages to stay at a certain place and yet go unnoticed so well that one might have to wonder, how does she do it. This is something a teacher cannot do or have a requirement in any sense unless, and as I suspect her to be someone or an Agent have, cause its needed in Field Jobs.
Not to mention, her knowledge of understanding a situation is also quite impressive. The Pro-Golfer case gives those vibes where she remains calm, understood the situation, made a plan to inculcate Conan in it while staying off-guard.
Even when the case was about to end, she Swiftly and unnoticed hit the golfer so easily, one might think How and Why.
While this fact may be unnecessary but She claims to have a liking towards Whiskey. Which apparently has the same method to that of RUM just a different ingredient. So it may not be far off that She or Gosho were potentially foreshadowing her relation to Rum.
Gin M
Vodka M
Haibara F
Pisco M
Vermouth F
Korn M
Chianti F
Kir F
Akai M
Amuro M
so most likely the next person should be a Woman/Female. And by that order Rumi fits the bill.
I know that this order is very bullshit but it could be something.
The Burning tent case is also important because we get to know that Kuroda has some sort of involvement/relation/knowledge of the case which was 17 years ago. The case later gives us an insight in to what could be a character development from the past. It seems kuroda and Rumi happen to have a bit of knowledge about each other at least. Their conversation gives us something lip-smacking about 2 vital suspects having a conversation means some development.
Also, why RUM is asking for Shinichi from Amuro could be, Since Rumi has the APTX-list and she made Conan and Haibara her prime suspects (why, I don’t know) but it could be make sure that whether Conan and Shinichi are same or not. Like Gathering both of them together at the same time. RUM most likely wants to hit 2 targets with 1 stone sort, and this idea doesn’t seem wrong, its efficient and something a No.2 of an Organization could be working.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: June 25th, 2018, 4:24 am
by Zerozaki4869
Well, good observations, Mr.Tantei-san.
Now regarding the three suspect rule I find the three framed suspects(Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi) vastly misleading.
TBH Rumi is a woman not an womanly man(the true description of Rum). So Rumi's presence is stealing the spotlight from a suspicious womanly man.
Now if we analyse Rumi, she has two personalities. One is of the klutzy deputy homeroom teacher's, the other is that of an observant, intelligent woman with a tilt towards criminal insanity.
Her name is a direct reference from the "U MASCARA" stuff and she possibly has a Shogi piece which was taken from Haneda's palm 17 years ago.
She is currently dancing around Conan(trying him to notice her name and get help in the 17 year old case.)
So we can safely deduce that Rumi is nothing but a personality played by a very intelligent woman who can get triggered by the word Prosthetic.

Now what there's a reference to Whiskey in Wakita's intro chapter. Rumi's liking of Whiskey is a possible foreshadowing of her interest in Wakita/the person playing the role of Wakita.
Now this Wakita guy is another customer, he's not what he lets other to see. He is a smart guy with a personal agenda.It's sort of logical that he's BO executive sent by Gin to investigate Kogoro.
But look at this guy, he gets a Rumish get-up, uses idioms left right and centre and his name Wakita Kanenori can be linked with Tokiwa kane nari meaning "Time is money" a quote which Rum uses frequently.

His Rumish get up(his eye injury is dubious and it was his injured eye which allowed him a chance to meet Kogoro. I think it's too contrived to be a coincidence.) plus his name can be thought of as a way to gauge Kogoro's knowledge of Rum.
Also his interest in Shinichi Kudo(he was the only one who made a visible move) and then meeting Dr.Agasa, makes him more suspicious but in a different way. Dr.Agasa is a family friend of Kudos, now anyone with an iota of intelligence won't approach to the family friend of the intended target as that is counter-productive.It will alert the target. Rum has already asked Bourbon to investigate Kudo Shinichi. Also his too much clinginess regarding Kogoro is a total put off. So he has the hints of being a BO agent but who is more interested in Rum and who likes to alert people who might be Rum's targets.

Now comes Kuroda. His white hair and matching injuries don't make much sense, unless he's substituted by some agent of an Organization, and he gave out the message of success to his comrades by his white Hair.
He seems to have seen Kohji's corpse and interested in Wakasa Rumi. Rumi knows that there would be person like Kuroda who should be interested in her.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: July 3rd, 2018, 4:11 pm
by ibex.yul
I have a theory that Mr. Masakage from Conan and Heiji's Deduction Magic case.
He is a magician who is missing 10 years (like the time Kuroda entered coma, might be from a fight between the two). He is shown wearing black glasses so we can't see his eyes. He is an old man. He have a long hair so he might look like a woman.
Also he probably know how to make disguises so he can look anything he wants so it might explain why no one knows how he looks like.
I still want to belive it's him, I don't like the idea of it being like the bourbon and vermoth arks.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: July 7th, 2018, 4:42 pm
by agent.sherry
Looks like Wakita is leading in the most recent Rum identity poll. I think among the three main suspects he seems to be the most likely so far, but my reasoning mostly stems from process of elimination than anything and the fact that he hasn't met Ai yet.
I don't expect every single BO member to be able to identify Sherry, but #2 in the BO should totally be able to recognize the top scientist who has been in the org since the day she was born (or at least be suspicious of her when he sees her). It would make Rum look like a clueless fool if he doesn't, I mean Pisco (another long-term-member) recognized her in a second (yes, he needed to double-check, but still).
I hope Gosho thinks so too and doesn't ignore this.

Would still be very nice if this arc doesn't repeat the same old pattern and Rum is indeed Chikara and none of the main suspects like people have suggested.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: July 13th, 2018, 4:18 pm
by blackmoon
Well, so far Gosho said RUM is only ONE person instead of 3, yet he has 3 characteristics, so he may be 1 person, but doesn't stop him from having 2 assistants, like a left-hand and right-hand man, with one being female and the other being a strong-built male, while RUM himself is old.
So maybe people confused his 2 assistants as RUM so that explains why different people report seeing RUM differently, and ALL of them who saw RUM claims that RUM only has one eye. Makes sense if Wakita is the middle-man with only one eye while Rumi being the left-hand and kuroda being the right-hand (since one has access to APTX victim list and the other knows Bourbon's BO codename, makes sense that both are associated with BO). Just a thought. ;D

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: July 13th, 2018, 6:27 pm
by dccd
blackmoon wrote:Well, so far Gosho said RUM is only ONE person instead of 3, yet he has 3 characteristics, so he may be 1 person, but doesn't stop him from having 2 assistants, like a left-hand and right-hand man, with one being female and the other being a strong-built male, while RUM himself is old.
So maybe people confused his 2 assistants as RUM so that explains why different people report seeing RUM differently, and ALL of them who saw RUM claims that RUM only has one eye. Makes sense if Wakita is the middle-man with only one eye while Rumi being the left-hand and kuroda being the right-hand (since one has access to APTX victim list and the other knows Bourbon's BO codename, makes sense that both are associated with BO). Just a thought. ;D


Finaaallllyyyyyyyy.

Rumi and Kuroda arent BO though.
Anyways: Finallllyyyy.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: July 19th, 2018, 4:10 am
by champagne
I think the Rum arc is exciting so far. I like the set-up with the Rum-descriptions given by Ai and the overarching case from 17 years ago. The Rum suspects are suspicious and I look forward to finding out what's behind each of them. I also wonder if Rum is in fact none of the three prime suspects? At this point I just don't know what to expect or not to expect from Gosho. I just hope it will all pay off and we'll get a great climax soon that really leads to something this time around.

Some thoughts on the recent Miyano parents reveal:
I was surprised to find out that they were NOT seasoned BO members at all, they lasted maybe at most a year or possibly even only a few months in the Organization when they were just considering joining when Elena was 3 months pregnant with Shiho and died shortly after her birth. Maybe their lack of code names has been a hint all along that they were not long-standing members?

It's just when we look back at that case where they visit Atsushi's designer-friend, the timeline suggests something else, so it makes me wonder if Gosho retconned the Miyano family? We now know that they were a fairly normal and nice little family before Shiho came into the picture, whereas beforehand there was the possibility that they were darker people. I mean it even used to be a fairly common theory that Atsushi (or the Miyano couple in general) is the BO boss. I wonder why Gosho decided to make them not established BO members at all?
Well, it makes sense that only Shiho was born into the BO while Akemi grew up normally, considering the BO was not interested in Akemi at all and even let her continue her ordinary life.

Also beforehand we were given the impression that Elena is fully British and now we have found out that she's half-British. What's the point of that? Or what's the point of the Akai-Miyano-family-connection in general that Gosho has already teased? Definitely can't wait to find out how this will be introduced to the story. Just hope it will all pay off without causing plot holes ???

Plus: Are they really dead? I think the wording has been pretty suspicious (something along the lines of "leaving their daughters behind") and that story about their accident that other BO members have been selling Sherry has been fishy ever since.
But Gosho has stated in a Q&A that they're dead, hasn't he (how long ago was that? I can't remember)? So can we take that at face value?
Now this might sound cruel, but I actually hope that they're really dead, because it would be ridiculous if everyone is just resurrected from the dead. If Gosho is unwilling to kill off recurring characters, at least those who have been dead all along should be left dead. They're basically just like strangers who Shiho doesn't know anyway. It's not like it can be made undone that she had to grow up as an orphan within a criminal syndicate.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: August 2nd, 2018, 2:51 pm
by Kor
I saw someone on Baidu suggesting an idea I didn't see before, so I'll share it here. I'm not fully onboard with this (or perhaps not at all), cause it could just be the result of a silly coincidence, but it's still sort of interesting.

In chapter 876 (first chapter of the romance novelist case), there's this panel Image

So the Baidu user suggests that perhaps it's Wakita. Later there's a knock on the door and...

Image

It's somewhat curious cause it's the hotel Mary and Sera happen to stay at.

The two issues I have with this is that:
1) The knock on the door is after Conan and co pass the delivery man, so logistically he should have already delivered the sushi if it was Wakita.
2) Gosho's apparently the kind of writer who'll write on the fly, with Amuro initially planned to be evil but then Gosho changes the plans cause he suddenly feels like it, so dunno if Gosho would put a glimpse of Wakita so early on and without calling any attention to it at all.

So I'm more leaning to this being a coincidence than not, but still thought I should share this.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: August 2nd, 2018, 6:34 pm
by dccd
If the guy was Wakita I tend to believe that he wouldve been drawn slightly more detailed and recognizable.
Furthermore it would make more sense to let him wear the same outfit when delivering to Agasa.
Furthermore there isnt sushi on the table yet, so most likely the guy wasnt delivering Sushi = wasnt Wakita.

On the other hand side imo its outstanding that Beika sushi is mentioned.
Afaik in-universe there isnt any mentioning that Beika sushi is superior or special in any way.
So why not just "Ah...the sushi!" ?
Would not change anything if the purpose was only to show that he ordered a lot of food.

So I tend to believe that its foreboding regarding the upcoming clash between Mary and Wakita.
(since I believe that Wakita is the one hunting Mary - side on side with Rum)
And last but not least: How probable is it to have the Beika sushi-scene happening at Marys current hotel?
So yep... nice catch.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: August 3rd, 2018, 2:12 am
by Max1996
dccd wrote:On the other hand side imo its outstanding that Beika sushi is mentioned.
Afaik in-universe there isnt any mentioning that Beika sushi is superior or special in any way.

Wasn't that the deliveryman saying where he's from when he knocked on the door?

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: August 3rd, 2018, 8:07 am
by dccd
Yes, he actually is.

But the point stays the same:
The author included specifically Beika sushi instead of regular sushi into the scene.

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Posted: August 3rd, 2018, 12:42 pm
by thriceplus
Not going to lie, the whole "new BO member on the move! Here are three suspects!" thing is getting really old by now. I'm honestly hoping Gosho will pull an insane twist somehow and make Rum actually Momiji or anyone but Wakita at this point.

And god forbid we get the same 3 suspects format for the BO boss as well.