Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
PhantomWriter
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby PhantomWriter » April 12th, 2018, 9:46 pm

ArseneLupen wrote:
CrimsonGenius wrote:
Spoiler:
RUM wants to know about Shin'ichi because if he is alive, he suspects Gin messed up his mission


Was Gin´s mission really to poison Shinichi ? Nope, the mission was originally the transaction with the company owner. The encounter with Shinichi was also a coincidence. Also if we think, Gin said, Its the first time they used the APTX4869, so he didnt know any side effects of the drug. (Only Shiho knew). The person who messed up is actually Shiho, because Gin thought the drug is actually a killing machine with leaving no evidences.

So I think that Rum isn´t blaming Gin. I mean, Rum can´t actually blame him.


I'd have to agree, though it depends on how the Organization handles it. Problem is, though, our POV is very limited. We don't get a lot of "inside" information because Conan is an outsider in terms of the main plot and the insiders (Rei, Akai, Haibara, etc.) have various reasons for not bringing up that information. Thus, we have to infer things based on previous actions the Organization has taken.

They're cutthroat about certain kinds of mistakes, such as the stuff with Pisco getting caught on camera. There's no deniability there, the guy got caught on film murdering a guy, and they knew he was going to spill everything if he gets arrested. They're also very quick to go after moles when found out or testing who could have betrayed them. Scotch is an example of the former. The latter is shown with Kir. They set up a test to make sure she was genuinely loyal to them via murder.

However, Rum was forgiven for his own mistakes and the Organization is trying to clean it up, as evidenced by the Asaca song case. It could just be that Rum's doing what he's supposed to do, that something happened and Gin left a loose end incidentally (because the poison didn't kill, which had never happened before in their records), so he's trying to clean it up. The Organization doesn't know the ramifications of Gin's screw up, he's pretty high on the food chain, he wasn't caught on film, and he's otherwise proven loyal, so I doubt they'd go after him.

(The problem with the idea of Rum and Gin clashing is that Rum would come across as a hypocrite (considering the Kohji case) and we don't have any establishment of the conflict between the two, meaning it's a bit out of left field. Sure, Gin doesn't care about Rum's screw up, but Gin doesn't care about a lot of things. Instead, he notices Kogoro possibly being involved again and that he could be a threat...)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby CrimsonGenius » April 26th, 2018, 6:47 pm

Is it only me or Kouji case might been inspired by The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side (Agatha)?
?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » April 29th, 2018, 3:23 pm

My Thoughts on the events in File 1009-1011

Akai vs Bourbon:
Spoiler:
Amuro was focused on Ran's keys to the Kudo mansion (File 1009) and later gave the wallet (that had those keys), that he allegedly found, to Sana (File 1010). He most likely stole them in order to break into the Kudo mansion and investigate Shinichi. Since Rum sent Bourbon another "hurry up" message, it makes sense that this is all leading to Bourbon rushing his Kudo mansion infiltration right after the case, and confront Akai there (as File 1009 showcased). Conan realized that Amuro was investigating Shinichi after he showed interest and he probably invited Amuro in order get info from him (File 1009). Since he later noticed Amuro's focus on the keys (File 1009) and found out about Amuro being in contact with Ran's wallet (File 1011), It's most likely leading up to him warning Akai and making preparations before the infiltration happens, which in turn would explain why Akai ambushed Bourbon and saying that Amuro messed up.
Image


Rei's flashback:
Spoiler:
After ages of anticipation, We have finally gotten official reveal of Miyano Atsushi (age 32) and Elena (age 29), who were revealed to have been doctors in the Miyano Clinic, before they joined the BO. We also got the confirmation to Rei's foreign blood. He is most likely half British, seeing as he has been associated with stereotypically British things and wears British-European-fashioned clothes. Another revelation was that Elena was half British, making Haibara and Akemi a quarter foreign, like Hidemi and Eisuke. As expected, Elena was also confirmed to have a sister (which is already indirectly confirmed to be Mary), who warned Elena about the BO before they joined.
Image

Since the Miyano visited Dejima's house "about 20 years ago" according to Ukihiko (File 423), and they were seemingly already BO members, since they were under BO surveillance, it suggests that their visit happened after the recent flashback (File 1011). Since Elena was 3-months-pregnant with Shiho during her meeting with Rei, it can only mean that both the Dejima visit and the flashback happened 19 years ago (which is still close enough to Ukihiko's estimation).
Image
If one Judges File 423 through one perspective, Gosho seems to have retconned things, as he initially implied that Atsushi left his house to Dejima to move to a bigger research facility (which was thought to belong to the Black organization by Conan and Haibara) 30 years ago, but now seems to have moved in the BO's institution 19 years ago. However, It wasn't 100% clear whether the reason Atsushi lent the house was due to joining the BO or whether Dejima was simply recalling Atsushi's institution moving separately.
Image

Something important that was revealed is the fact that the BO were referred to as "Karasuma Group" (File 1011).
In the latest Boss-related interview, Gosho denied that the Boss' name reveals the BO name:
あと、組織の正式名称と深い関わりが…と、インタビューでお答えになっていた…という情報を見たことがあり… 出典が定かではないですが(汗)
Interviewer: Also, that it’s deeply related to the Organization’s official name… Or so you answered in an interview… I’ve seen such information… But the source isn’t clear (sweats)

青山 なんだって?そんなの有ったっけ… 組織の名前?そんなこと言ったかな…
Aoyama: What did you say? Was there such a thing…? The Organizations’ name? Did I say that..?

組織の名前って、決まってるんですか?
Interviewer: Have you decided on the Organization’s name?

青山 うん(ピーピー)が(ピー)なんですよ。
Aoyama: Yes (beep-beep) is (beep), see.

素敵な…
Interviewer: Fantastic…

青山 うん、そう、でもボスの名前…?それはあまり関係ないかな。
Aoyama: Yes, true, but the boss’ name…? I think it’s not too related…??
It makes more sense that "Ooguro/Daikoku" (which appeared in two BO-connected cases, File 116 and 281) is the BO name. The fact that Gosho revealed a name that is "Karasuma Group" in the flashback to 19 years ago leads me to believe that the BO changed their organization name after the Kohji case failure. This would mean that the BO was aware of not only the "ASACA" interpretation of the dying message, but also "CARASUMA". Since the Karasuma Group also had bad rumors surrounding them, it makes sense that they would change their image and branding to something else to stay under the radar once more (especially after their name was potentially left as a dying message).
Image


Wakasa Rumi's vision:
Spoiler:
There were some interesting parallels in this case that pertains to Wakasa Rumi. After Fukamachi took off his glasses and was called by Morooka, he started to turn his head and look around quickly(File 1009) just like how Rumi did when Ayumi called for her in File 988. In the following chapter (File 1010), Kogoro tried on Fukamachi's highly strengthened glasses and reacted very similar to how Rumi did after bumping her head in File 966.
Image
This could very likely be Gosho seeding in the truth behind Rumi's suspicious head-bumps through this visual cue. This backs up my theory about Rumi wearing strengthened glasses that messed with her perception of distance.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 1st, 2018, 10:22 am

Summary of the drug researches (made by me)
Spoiler:
Image
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on May 2nd, 2018, 5:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Spimer
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Spimer » May 1st, 2018, 11:40 am

Very good graph, we needed something like that to compile all we know insofar.
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dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » May 1st, 2018, 9:00 pm

CrimsonGenius wrote:Is it only me or Kouji case might been inspired by The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side (Agatha)?
?


Which aspects of the story do you mean?
Better answer in spoiler since I guess there might be some people who dont want to get spoilered
since it isnt a bad Christie at all.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
mtcc
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby mtcc » May 9th, 2018, 6:48 am

hello I think the suspects in this arc represent Chinese \ Japanese zodiac
for example, Rumi is the tiger
Tigers are proud, courageous, and generous. Being decisive and quick-witted, they are potentially great leaders. On the negative side, they do not like to follow orders and can cause interpersonal friction with others.
wakita says quick-witted in 980 and in 978 there is a tiger
the daragon is Kuroda because of the Japanese name for Tatsu
and wakita Rat or Rabbit
and katsumata could be tatsu or uma
uma in shogi = horse /dragon horse
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » May 13th, 2018, 9:34 pm

I haven't really collected all of my thoughts on this yet, but I wanted to make a post to see what people think.

What do you think of the idea that Wakasa Rumi and Wakita Kanenori could be collaborators?

This thought came about while reading through posts from other people discussing the fact that Rums phrase in his texts to Boubon, "Time is Money" could be translated into Japanese and have the letters rearranged to create the name Wakita Kanenori. I thought that, rather than Wakita having this name because he is Rum or a subordinate of Rum, he may be a person who is looking for information on Rum, just like Wakasa Rumi is trying to do.

I think it went like this: "Wakita" and "Wakasa" both know each other and together complied the information for the website on the Haneda Kohji case at some point in the past. By pure coincidence Conan heard the name Kohji while in the presence of Haibara who could explain that Kohji was on the ATPX list. This lead Conan to viewing the website which Wakita and Wakasa were not able to track properly. They then took the website offline themselves and leaked the information about Asaka being seen with the mirror to Hotta Gaito in order to lure out the person who had visited the site. Since both Kogoro and Conan appeared they then had to split up to investigate them both separately. They then created their fake names based on things that are associated with Rum. Wakita's name was based on Rum's often used phrase "Time is money" and Wakasa's name was based on the assumed meaning of the dying message of the Kohji case itself, with the addition of the W at the beginning and the I at the end, which are the same letters found at the beginning and end of Wakita's fake name.

Both of them appeared in the series relatively close together with the only cases between them being the fitting room murder case and the 10 years ago beach flashback case. Rumi appeared first because Conan had to attend school every day so he would see her on the first day of her job. However there was no guarantee that Kogoro would appear at the sushi bar unless he won big at the horse track, which would take a few days. This is why Wakita found a way to either predict the winner and second place of the race or fix the race all the way through and then leave the ticket so Kogoro would find it, therefore inviting him to the sushi bar without him realizing it. When Wakita was reading the news paper at the end of the second Wakasa appearance, he said "quick witted" about Conan who was thematically playing the role of Ikkyu-san at the end of the case.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Swagnarok » May 13th, 2018, 9:58 pm

But didn't Conan access the website from Dr. Agasa's house? Or was that just the last place he was shown doing so? If the former, wouldn't they be investigating the Professor?
Spoiler:
Cherry Blossoms raining down
Just like snow mingled with blood
The fallout from our terrible choices
From the heavens that have rejected us

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » May 13th, 2018, 10:09 pm

Swagnarok wrote:But didn't Conan access the website from Dr. Agasa's house? Or was that just the last place he was shown doing so? If the former, wouldn't they be investigating the Professor?


Conan did access it from Agasa's house and on Agasa's laptop. However they were never shown going after Agasa. They specifically went for Conan and Kogoro.

thats why I said :

".......which Wakita and Wakasa were not able to track properly. They then took the website offline themselves and leaked the information about Asaka being seen with the mirror to Hotta Gaito in order to lure out the person who had visited the site. Since both Kogoro and Conan appeared they then had to split up to investigate them both separately."
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 14th, 2018, 3:26 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:I haven't really collected all of my thoughts on this yet, but I wanted to make a post to see what people think.

What do you think of the idea that Wakasa Rumi and Wakita Kanenori could be collaborators?

This thought came about while reading through posts from other people discussing the fact that Rums phrase in his texts to Boubon, "Time is Money" could be translated into Japanese and have the letters rearranged to create the name Wakita Kanenori. I thought that, rather than Wakita having this name because he is Rum or a subordinate of Rum, he may be a person who is looking for information on Rum, just like Wakasa Rumi is trying to do.

I think it went like this: "Wakita" and "Wakasa" both know each other and together complied the information for the website on the Haneda Kohji case at some point in the past. By pure coincidence Conan heard the name Kohji while in the presence of Haibara who could explain that Kohji was on the ATPX list. This lead Conan to viewing the website which Wakita and Wakasa were not able to track properly. They then took the website offline themselves and leaked the information about Asaka being seen with the mirror to Hotta Gaito in order to lure out the person who had visited the site. Since both Kogoro and Conan appeared they then had to split up to investigate them both separately. They then created their fake names based on things that are associated with Rum. Wakita's name was based on Rum's often used phrase "Time is money" and Wakasa's name was based on the assumed meaning of the dying message of the Kohji case itself, with the addition of the W at the beginning and the I at the end, which are the same letters found at the beginning and end of Wakita's fake name.

Both of them appeared in the series relatively close together with the only cases between them being the fitting room murder case and the 10 years ago beach flashback case. Rumi appeared first because Conan had to attend school every day so he would see her on the first day of her job. However there was no guarantee that Kogoro would appear at the sushi bar unless he won big at the horse track, which would take a few days. This is why Wakita found a way to either predict the winner and second place of the race or fix the race all the way through and then leave the ticket so Kogoro would find it, therefore inviting him to the sushi bar without him realizing it. When Wakita was reading the news paper at the end of the second Wakasa appearance, he said "quick witted" about Conan who was thematically playing the role of Ikkyu-san at the end of the case.
well, as collaborators, it would beg the question of who they are. What's their identities and motives? How are they connected to the Kohji case?

I assume this comment(second bold) is directed to those who have submitted themselves to the belief that Rumi is trying to investigate Rum :D

What made them see Conan as a competent individual worth investigating after appearing with Kogoro?

If Wakita isn't Rum or Rum's subordinate, how would he know about Rum's usual phrase?

We don't know if Conan solving the case was written in the news, since it was highlighting Rumi's stunt more.
Makes me question that they even would do that regardless of Rumi's spotlight, since saying that kids solved the case before the cops will make the MPD look incompetent to the public eye.

Overall, it's a nice connection-making of what has transpired in Rum arc, just wanted to point out important questions that your solution suggestions bring with them.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 284

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 15th, 2018, 11:00 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:I haven't really collected all of my thoughts on this yet, but I wanted to make a post to see what people think.

What do you think of the idea that Wakasa Rumi and Wakita Kanenori could be collaborators?

This thought came about while reading through posts from other people discussing the fact that Rums phrase in his texts to Boubon, "Time is Money" could be translated into Japanese and have the letters rearranged to create the name Wakita Kanenori. I thought that, rather than Wakita having this name because he is Rum or a subordinate of Rum, he may be a person who is looking for information on Rum, just like Wakasa Rumi is trying to do.

I think it went like this: "Wakita" and "Wakasa" both know each other and together complied the information for the website on the Haneda Kohji case at some point in the past. By pure coincidence Conan heard the name Kohji while in the presence of Haibara who could explain that Kohji was on the ATPX list. This lead Conan to viewing the website which Wakita and Wakasa were not able to track properly. They then took the website offline themselves and leaked the information about Asaka being seen with the mirror to Hotta Gaito in order to lure out the person who had visited the site. Since both Kogoro and Conan appeared they then had to split up to investigate them both separately. They then created their fake names based on things that are associated with Rum. Wakita's name was based on Rum's often used phrase "Time is money" and Wakasa's name was based on the assumed meaning of the dying message of the Kohji case itself, with the addition of the W at the beginning and the I at the end, which are the same letters found at the beginning and end of Wakita's fake name.

Both of them appeared in the series relatively close together with the only cases between them being the fitting room murder case and the 10 years ago beach flashback case. Rumi appeared first because Conan had to attend school every day so he would see her on the first day of her job. However there was no guarantee that Kogoro would appear at the sushi bar unless he won big at the horse track, which would take a few days. This is why Wakita found a way to either predict the winner and second place of the race or fix the race all the way through and then leave the ticket so Kogoro would find it, therefore inviting him to the sushi bar without him realizing it. When Wakita was reading the news paper at the end of the second Wakasa appearance, he said "quick witted" about Conan who was thematically playing the role of Ikkyu-san at the end of the case.
well, as collaborators, it would beg the question of who they are. What's their identities and motives? How are they connected to the Kohji case?

I assume this comment(second bold) is directed to those who have submitted themselves to the belief that Rumi is trying to investigate Rum :D

What made them see Conan as a competent individual worth investigating after appearing with Kogoro?

If Wakita isn't Rum or Rum's subordinate, how would he know about Rum's usual phrase?

We don't know if Conan solving the case was written in the news, since it was highlighting Rumi's stunt more.
Makes me question that they even would do that regardless of Rumi's spotlight, since saying that kids solved the case before the cops will make the MPD look incompetent to the public eye.

Overall, it's a nice connection-making of what has transpired in Rum arc, just wanted to point out important questions that your solution suggestions bring with them.


1) Conan is already a renowned "Kid-Killer" plus someone showing interest in Kohji case. So Conan acting as a facade for a detective working from the shadows wouldn't be a far fetched assumption. So Rumi could be trying to connect with this detective whom she thinks is the brain behind Conan/Conan's mentor.

2) Wakita can be a rouge BO member/enemy of Rum within BO who wants to know who Rum is to for some leverage.(Can be Tsutomu, given Mary is aware of Karasum group and their shady dealings, won't be jump to assume Tsutomu was already investigating them before the Kohji case and infiltrated BO.")

3) Also this can mean, Rumi and Wakita had two different goals. Rumi's goal is to get Conan solve the message behind the Shogi piece.
Wakita's goal is to evoke a reaction out of Kogoro, by using an anagram of "Toki Wa Kanenari" and Rumish get-up.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » May 15th, 2018, 2:14 pm

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:I haven't really collected all of my thoughts on this yet, but I wanted to make a post to see what people think.

What do you think of the idea that Wakasa Rumi and Wakita Kanenori could be collaborators?



Although i haven't really thought about this about them both. I for once am sort of convinced that maybe .. Just Maybe 2 out of those 3 are working together
Rumi-Wakita
Wakita-Kuroda
Kuroda-Rumi

For instance, the Camping trip(File-987) those exchange of words between them kinda gives a hint of any sort of relation or chemistry between them, which makes me wonder that once rumi-wakita and kuroda-wakita see each other that would be the real deal.

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