Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 19th, 2017, 2:44 pm

Adel34 wrote:I didn't read all the pages, but I have a question. It looks like there are many characters suspected to be Rum, but what is the probability of Rum being a character that hasn't made an appearance yet?
Looking at the past arcs, the main antagonist usually appears in some shape or form before the first 100 files of the arc(in Bourbon arc, "Scar Akai"/Bourbon appeared after 55 files), so unless we assume something like Asaka=Rum and Asaka hasn't been introduced yet, then it's more likely that Rum has already been introduced.

If you want to go with the interview, then Gosho said in the recent "let's talk"(Jan 2017):
"His/her name haven't shown up, in a sense! Maybe his/her face has appeared...?"
As if to imply that something else besides Rum's real name (like a fake name) has appeared. Assuming that Rum's fake name appeared during Rum arc, then we can come to the conclusion that Rum's face has been revealed, since no character besides Asaka has appeared with a name but without a clearly revealed face(unless one thinks that Asaka=Rum).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Adel34
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Adel34 » November 19th, 2017, 2:55 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Adel34 wrote:Looking at the past arcs, the main antagonist usually appears in some shape or form before the first 100 files of the arc(in Bourbon arc, "Scar Akai"/Bourbon appeared after 55 files), so unless we assume something like Asaka=Rum and Asaka hasn't been introduced yet, then it's more likely that Rum has already been introduced.

If you want to go with the interview, then Gosho said in the recent "let's talk"(Jan 2017):
"His/her name haven't shown up, in a sense! Maybe his/her face has appeared...?"
As if to imply that something else besides Rum's real name (like a fake name) has appeared. Assuming that Rum's fake name appeared during Rum arc, then we can come to the conclusion that Rum's face has been revealed, since no character besides Asaka has appeared with a name but without a clearly revealed face(unless one thinks that Asaka=Rum).


If Rum appeared using a fake name, then it could have been anyone, including a minor character. If one of the three main suspects is Rum then that person is using a fake name. So, for example, if Rumi Wakasa is Rum, then it is not her real name. Is that what you're trying to say?

Apart from that, how much time do you think is going to pass before Rum is revealed? It feels like forever. I watch mainly the anime, but I check the manga out also to check out how much the plot has advanced.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 19th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Adel34 wrote:If Rum appeared using a fake name, then it could have been anyone, including a minor character. If one of the three main suspects is Rum then that person is using a fake name. So, for example, if Rumi Wakasa is Rum, then it is not her real name. Is that what you're trying to say?
Yes, and if we assume that the fake name appeared within the Rum arc(and Asaka is not Rum), then we can conlcude that Rum's face has also been properly revealed.

Adel34 wrote:Apart from that, how much time do you think is going to pass before Rum is revealed? It feels like forever. I watch mainly the anime, but I check the manga out also to check out how much the plot has advanced.
Hard to say. I think "time" is gonna be the least predictable part in all this(since Gosho's chapter release schedule is very irregular every year), but if we go with file number, then looking at the plot pacing and cast(compared to Bourbon arc), I would estimate that it will happen at latest after around 200 files(like Bourbon arc) from the start of the Arc. Around File 1100 in other words.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Adel34
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Adel34 » November 19th, 2017, 6:05 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Hard to say. I think "time" is gonna be the least predictable part in all this(since Gosho's chapter release schedule is very irregular every year), but if we go with file number, then looking at the plot pacing and cast(compared to Bourbon arc), I would estimate that it will happen at latest after around 200 files(like Bourbon arc) from the start of the Arc. Around File 1100 in other words.


That's going to be a few more years, isn't it? Sigh, pacing has always been terrible in this series, IMO. The story drags for way too long. I wish Aoyama would give this arc a break and focus on just cases. Because otherwise we got more and more characters to the point where it's becoming tedious. A thing I don't like is that they continue to introduce new people with brilliant detective abilities. Shinichi isn't special anymore, because there are like... ten other main characters with his level of intelligence.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 19th, 2017, 6:43 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Papakai if alive is Wakita...


I actually didn't consider this possibility until you brought it up—so thanks for bringing it up. :)
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K.O.R.N
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby K.O.R.N » November 19th, 2017, 7:31 pm

Personally speaking, I don't believe that Papakai is as ugly as Wakita. I wonder how Mary could end up with such an ugly person, contrary to the better-looking Papakai we know of. :p
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 19th, 2017, 9:26 pm

Ah, did I sense a personal bias against Ugly people? Jokes apart, Papakai is more likely to be Wakita than Kuroda. If he's Kuroda he has to go through the swap. Now the most logical/possible time to swap is the fag end of Kuroda's coma. If Kuroda's hair anomaly was seen at that point of time it would have raised severe red flags. There would be no reason to attribute his hair turning white just between two dressings. Also Papakai needs to have close connections in NPA to exploit this swap. And to think a person going as far as mimicking Kuroda's injuries and his facial features but does nothing about the hair colour(He could have used a diversion tactic by making his hair appear greying and time his waking up from the coma to make sure the hair colour remained intact.)

Also the Nurse attributed Kuroda's hair turning white was due to stress of the accident. So the hair turned white right after he was brought in, doesn't make a logical swap story.

Also Kuroda knows why "Conan is the wisom of Sleeping Kogoro." from NPA not from Nagano police. And guess what PSB or Amuro's organization is a wing of NPA. Maybe Kuroda knew this stuff about Conan from Amuro.

And Kuroda is the only one, who came to the scene/Beika because of unforced reasons. If Matsumoto wasn't promoted he wouldn't even have come to Beika. As a Policeman his steps are constantly monitored and he has to satisfy his superiors if he steps out of his limits.

I doubt that Papakai would enforce such fetters on himself. Also his last mail was an indication that he's going to start a new life to pursue something and didn't want his family to bother about him for their own safety. Something like a creating a new identity to infiltrate BO. He also chose Japan, the HQ of BO as a safe place for his family, which is again a contradiction. This means he in a different identity would be able to be in Japan and secretly look-out for his family/had allies in NPA who secretly would watch over his family without making a fuss.

Wakita being an ugly-looking person with the buck-teeth and the eye-patch is a perfect bin character. If Akai went through plastic surgery, threw-off his good looks/identifying features, and infiltrated BO to nab Rum red-handed, used catchy idioms like "Meeting the devil/monster in the darkness.", befriended with Gin, knows stuff about Kudo Shinichi, and now under the guise of watching over Kogoro has come to gather info about Hotta's last words.
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 19th, 2017, 9:43 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Rum arc is a puzzle in itself. Given the fact that Rum's injury is qite old/he uses prosthetic eye, and Wakita suffering from a boil/stye/ulcer(according to Spimer's correct translation)and going as far as to show Conan his real affected eye proves that He's not Rum.

Kuroda is very likely Kuroda himself. To think of a switch in mid coma there are too many variables. The most glaring is why would someone mimic Kuroda's every injury with perfect etail but can't time the waking up, to make sure that he gets a black colouring for his beard and hair. It's a misdirection tactic used by Gosho/an implicit red herring to make us think Kuroda is swapped.

Rumi is being made to look like Rum=Asaka=Rumi, which is the main idea of Gosho. But there are severe problems with this theory. All in all Rum is neither of the three, Papakai if alive is Wakita, not Kuroda and probably he's the closest associate of Kuroda. (Remember Kuroda is a boss figure and Wakita is Boss' closest aide.)
Xytan Whitcombe
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Xytan Whitcombe » November 24th, 2017, 12:15 am

Wasn't Rumi looking at the APTX victim list? Isn't that an almost confirmation that if she isn't Rum, she is at least connected to the BO?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby K.O.R.N » November 25th, 2017, 12:07 am

Xytan Whitcombe wrote:Wasn't Rumi looking at the APTX victim list? Isn't that an almost confirmation that if she isn't Rum, she is at least connected to the BO?


Yeah, no she isn't Rum, for plenty of reasons.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby PhantomWriter » November 25th, 2017, 9:08 pm

A question currently on my mind- is the use of Britishisms throughout the translations due to the translators using British English as their standard or is it to convey something? American English and British English have peculiarities that are either unique to the variants or are far more common in one than the other.

While I understand that there is dialogue that is canonically filled with Britishisms, particularly in Masumi's and Mary's dialogue, there's something I wish to check before I go off on some theory tangent. Perhaps a red herring added in-translation or the use of Britishisms to indicate a different manner or more archaic form of speaking compared to other characters? (I'm examining the Rum suspects' dialogue, due to the common theory that Tsutomu's alive and in disguise.)
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Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 25th, 2017, 11:00 pm

The presence of Rumi as a Rum=Asaka=Woman suspect is doing some great stuff for Iori. It is eliminating Rum=Effeminate man angle and at the same time it's forcing Asaka=Woman, theory. Now neither Asaka's face nor her body features were revealed. People started imagining that Asaka was a woman after "Hotta's claims." But Hotta is unreliable and Mary scoffed on those info. So let's for a moment treat Asaka as someone whose gender isn't confirmed.

For time being we are made to forget how well Iori fits the Asaka role and to some extent the Rum role.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby PhantomWriter » November 25th, 2017, 11:47 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:The presence of Rumi as a Rum=Asaka=Woman suspect is doing some great stuff for Iori. It is eliminating Rum=Effeminate man angle and at the same time it's forcing Asaka=Woman, theory. Now neither Asaka's face nor her body features were revealed. People started imagining that Asaka was a woman after "Hotta's claims." But Hotta is unreliable and Mary scoffed on those info. So let's for a moment treat Asaka as someone whose gender isn't confirmed.

For time being we are made to forget how well Iori fits the Asaka role and to some extent the Rum role.


That would require Iori to be older than the age we're given. He would've been 13 at the time of Kohji's murder otherwise, and bodyguards in the US are 18 or older.

While there are cases where there's lies about age in the panel (Subaru's panel lists an age ~5 years younger than Shuichi's actual age), there's usually some kind of hint that they're lying about something major. And this is a series where aging oddities are a thing. However, the aging oddities, like shrinking and not aging at all, are quite uncommon and usually backed by some evidence in-story, too.
"Data! Data! Data! I cannot make bricks without clay." -Sherlock Holmes
thriceplus
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby thriceplus » November 25th, 2017, 11:52 pm

Xytan Whitcombe wrote:Wasn't Rumi looking at the APTX victim list? Isn't that an almost confirmation that if she isn't Rum, she is at least connected to the BO?


Everything's suggesting that it's a standard Gosho red herring. In an arc, the first character to get a ton of suspicion cast upon usually turns out to be good, because Gosho needs to save a twist for the confrontation. Same thing happened to Jodie in Vermouth's arc and Okiya in Bourbon's arc.

She's likely connected to the BO, but she's probably some undercover MI6 or something given how Gosho adds a new law enforcement/intelligence agency every arc for whatever reason.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby thriceplus » November 25th, 2017, 11:59 pm

K.O.R.N wrote:Personally speaking, I don't believe that Papakai is as ugly as Wakita. I wonder how Mary could end up with such an ugly person, contrary to the better-looking Papakai we know of. :p


A lot more likely it's Kuroda imo. Gosho spent a lot of effort emphasizing that Kuroda's appearance completely changed and has memory loss, etc, all so when he meets the rest of the Akai clan, it becomes plausible that the they don't recognize each other initially. Then in the confrontation with Rum, the Akai clan will be cornered by Rum and then suddenly Kuroda's memory will come back and he will save them.

The reunion between Kuroda and Mary will be freaking pretty weird though, with Kuroda looking like some Bond villain and Mary looking like a middle schooler.

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