Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 18th, 2017, 5:37 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Do we have something on Wakita? That guy is a something. Also is there something fishy(another interpretation) about the Knaji used in Asaka's name?
If you're interested on my thoughts:
Wakita Kanenori (Up to File 983)
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 18th, 2017, 7:31 am

Ah that's a great piece of info, but man I do have a question about that Pirate' spirit thing.
Let's assume that Wakita was referring to Rum, but doesn't that statement seems a bit off.
Like the race is already over and Pirate's spirit won the race despite being speculated as a weak horse, so would it be wrong to assume that Wakita was referring the Mouri's uncanny knack of picking an unlikely winner.
k11chi
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby k11chi » May 18th, 2017, 7:49 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Ah that's a great piece of info, but man I do have a question about that Pirate' spirit thing.
Let's assume that Wakita was referring to Rum, but doesn't that statement seems a bit off.
Like the race is already over and Pirate's spirit won the race despite being speculated as a weak horse, so would it be wrong to assume that Wakita was referring the Mouri's uncanny knack of picking an unlikely winner.

It wouldn't be a race horse if it couldn't compare with others there. It would be more accurate to think of football fans that say "Real Madrid sucks, Barca is the best!" So Wakita is probably familiar with race horses.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 18th, 2017, 9:15 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Ah that's a great piece of info, but man I do have a question about that Pirate' spirit thing.
Let's assume that Wakita was referring to Rum, but doesn't that statement seems a bit off.
Like the race is already over and Pirate's spirit won the race despite being speculated as a weak horse, so would it be wrong to assume that Wakita was referring the Mouri's uncanny knack of picking an unlikely winner.
You seem to be confused about how Gosho's foreshadowing style works. It's not that Wakita wasn't talking about the horse. It's that Gosho was specifically constructing a sentence(foreshadowing) for Wakita to say that has implications meant for the reader. There's no argument that he was talking about the horse, but the choice of words and the naming of the horses are intended for a hint(from Gosho, to readers) about Wakita's opinion.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 366

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 18th, 2017, 9:29 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:Ah that's a great piece of info, but man I do have a question about that Pirate' spirit thing.
Let's assume that Wakita was referring to Rum, but doesn't that statement seems a bit off.
Like the race is already over and Pirate's spirit won the race despite being speculated as a weak horse, so would it be wrong to assume that Wakita was referring the Mouri's uncanny knack of picking an unlikely winner.
You seem to be confused about how Gosho's foreshadowing style works. It's not that Wakita wasn't talking about the horse. It's that Gosho was specifically constructing a sentence(foreshadowing) for Wakita to say that has implications meant for the reader. There's no argument that he was talking about the horse, but the choice of words and the naming of the horses are intended for a hint(from Gosho, to readers) about Wakita's opinion.

All I'm saying is that Wakita appears to be very intrigued by Kogoro's ability to predict the pirate spirit's winning despite the speculation of it being a weak horse. I'm saying that maybe Gosho's hint was that Wakita is intrigued by Kogoro's ability to sniff outPirate Spirit's unlikely victory(This maybe a hint about Rum's identity. The least likely or the weakest Rum suspect is Rum.)
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 18th, 2017, 10:35 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:All I'm saying is that Wakita appears to be very intrigued by Kogoro's ability to predict the pirate spirit's winning despite the speculation of it being a weak horse. I'm saying that maybe Gosho's hint was that Wakita is intrigued by Kogoro's ability to sniff outPirate Spirit's unlikely victory(This maybe a hint about Rum's identity. The least likely or the weakest Rum suspect is Rum.)

My current suspicion about the "weak" impression that Wakita may have is this:
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.
/From my Iori Muga(Up to File 988) discussion.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 366

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 18th, 2017, 11:07 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:All I'm saying is that Wakita appears to be very intrigued by Kogoro's ability to predict the pirate spirit's winning despite the speculation of it being a weak horse. I'm saying that maybe Gosho's hint was that Wakita is intrigued by Kogoro's ability to sniff outPirate Spirit's unlikely victory(This maybe a hint about Rum's identity. The least likely or the weakest Rum suspect is Rum.)

My current suspicion about the "weak" impression that Wakita may have is this:
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.
/From my Iori Muga(Up to File 988) discussion.

That's a valid speculation but if we follow Wakita's conversation with Kogoro, we find that Wakita is amused by the veteran Horse-racing enthusiast Kogoro's bet on a speculated weak horse despite the fact that the said Horse had won the race.
If I consider this as Gosho's hint for the readers then, I can draw certain comparisons with a Horse race.
We have certain Rum suspects and already we're conjuring up theories for possible Rum candidates. (Horses)
One of them is seemingly the weakest Rum Suspect. Those who are betting on that weakest Rum suspect, will make a killing like Kogoro, because the weakest Rum suspect will be revealed as Rum.
Your Iori evaluation is top notch, but I would just suggest one minor point, "Iori was confident of taking on the assailant, even in the dark. That means he has a very commanding skills in hand-to hand combat."
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 18th, 2017, 12:16 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:That's a valid speculation but if we follow Wakita's conversation with Kogoro, we find that Wakita is amused by the veteran Horse-racing enthusiast Kogoro's bet on a speculated weak horse despite the fact that the said Horse had won the race.
If I consider this as Gosho's hint for the readers then, I can draw certain comparisons with a Horse race.
We have certain Rum suspects and already we're conjuring up theories for possible Rum candidates. (Horses)
One of them is seemingly the weakest Rum Suspect. Those who are betting on that weakest Rum suspect, will make a killing like Kogoro, because the weakest Rum suspect will be revealed as Rum.
Your Iori evaluation is top notch, but I would just suggest one minor point, "Iori was confident of taking on the assailant, even in the dark. That means he has a very commanding skills in hand-to hand combat."
I'm not personally interpreting the hint that way, but rather that it's indicating that Wakita sees Rum as "weak" and that the boss bets a lot on him, but following your logic, it dismisses all the suspect except for Wakita and Iori:
- Kuroda is shown to be strong in File 989
- Rumi is shown to be strong in File 967/980
- if we include Mary as a suspect(although it's pretty obvious anyway) she has clearly shown what she can do in File 953
Wakita and Iori hasn't demonstrated anything(we just have potential clues to their strength).

Either way, I'm not putting my hopes on your interpretation, since there's no real established "race"(for that kind of hint to make sense). It's just the way us fans see it.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on May 18th, 2017, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » May 18th, 2017, 12:17 pm

I really love this interpretation of the "horse race-situation" @ Zerozaki.
(and believe its actually right)

And bro... he isnt talking about physical strength but the probability of one being Rum.
Last edited by dccd on May 18th, 2017, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 18th, 2017, 12:22 pm

dccd wrote:I really love this interpretation of the "horse race-situation" @ Zerozaki.
(and believe its actually right)

Because it fits your "Sakurako = Rum" theory right?
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 366

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 18th, 2017, 12:23 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:That's a valid speculation but if we follow Wakita's conversation with Kogoro, we find that Wakita is amused by the veteran Horse-racing enthusiast Kogoro's bet on a speculated weak horse despite the fact that the said Horse had won the race.
If I consider this as Gosho's hint for the readers then, I can draw certain comparisons with a Horse race.
We have certain Rum suspects and already we're conjuring up theories for possible Rum candidates. (Horses)
One of them is seemingly the weakest Rum Suspect. Those who are betting on that weakest Rum suspect, will make a killing like Kogoro, because the weakest Rum suspect will be revealed as Rum.
Your Iori evaluation is top notch, but I would just suggest one minor point, "Iori was confident of taking on the assailant, even in the dark. That means he has a very commanding skills in hand-to hand combat."
I'm not personally interpreting the hint that way, but rather that it's indicating that Wakita sees Rum as "weak" and that the boss bets a lot on him, but following your logic, it dismisses all the suspect except for Wakita and Iori:
- Kuroda is shown to be strong in File 989
- Rumi is shown to be strong in File 967/980
- if we include Mary as a suspect(although it's pretty obvious anyway) she has clearly shown what she can do in File 953
Wakita and Iori hasn't demonstrated anything(we just have potential clues to their strength).

Either way, I'm not putting my hopes on your interpretation, since there's no real established "race"(for that kind of hint to make sense). It's just the way us fans see it.

Dude(assuming you're one), You misinterpreted me. Strong=Likely, weak=unlikely. Weak Rum suspect==Less likely Rum Suspect.
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » May 18th, 2017, 12:31 pm

Ok, he was faster.
And yes - i like it because it fits my theory.

But to be honest:
Im 100% sure that Rum wont turn out being one of the "big names/big horses", Kuroda, Wakita, Rumi (I dont even take Iori as a suspect).

But well.. everybody has a different approach to solve the puzzle.
So gl with yours.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 366

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » May 18th, 2017, 12:35 pm

dccd wrote:I really love this interpretation of the "horse race-situation" @ Zerozaki.
(and believe its actually right)

I think the race is between four horses.
Kuroda, Rumi, Wakita and Iori.
Kuroda is coming off a likely suspect, so is Rumi, as one is showing interest in Kohji case and other is lurking around Conan and trying to assess his abilities. Haibara is getting BO pressure while both Rumi and Kuroda were there in the burning tent case.
But this Sushi chef and Bishonen Butler is doing something very different, their methods are more subtle and less perceived. But one is just a butler of a rich lady, the other is a sushi chef. Neither is hypothesised to have a prosthetic eye,(Injury in Wakita's case and inconclusive in Iori's case.) Also there is this thing Wakita (apparently) badmouthing Rum and Iori is too young to be Rum. These are two weak Rum horses, though it's debatable that which one is the weakest.
If we get the "Rum Rating" of them

Kuroda=70%
Rumi=69%
Wakita=10%
Iori=10%
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » May 18th, 2017, 12:52 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Dude(assuming you're one), You misinterpreted me. Strong=Likely, weak=unlikely. Weak Rum suspect==Less likely Rum Suspect.
I see, in that case, It's a matter of how you measure how "likely" and "unlikely" the suspects are of being Rum. From the narrative that Gosho is going with, he is trying to put Rumi into the front-line of suspicion. He also threw very obvious hints about Wakita's potential of being Rum, and before that, we had a moment of suspicion about Kuroda(until Haibara dismissed him)(while Mary and Kansuke might as well be confirmed to not be Rum).

Based on Gosho's obvious narrative attempts(of red-herrings), this is the order of "strong=likely":
1. Rumi
2. Wakita
3. Kuroda
4. Kansuke
5. Mary
6. Iori

That would make Iori more likely, since he's the "weakest", since from the narrative, he's not made to seem suspicious at all(like Conan taking notice of his effeminate similarity to Rum's description for example[not that he ever had a chance to]).
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on May 18th, 2017, 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Serinox
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » May 18th, 2017, 1:00 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:Dude(assuming you're one), You misinterpreted me. Strong=Likely, weak=unlikely. Weak Rum suspect==Less likely Rum Suspect.

I see, in that case, It's a matter of how you measure how "likely" and "unlikely" the suspects are of being Rum. From the narrative that Gosho is going with, he is trying to put Rumi into the front-line of suspicion. He also threw very obvious hints about Wakita's potential of being Rum, and before that, we had a moment of suspicion about Kuroda(until Haibara dismissed him)(while Mary and Kansuke might as well be confirmed to not be Rum).

Based on Gosho's obvious narrative attempts(of red-herrings), this is the order of "strong=likely":
1. Rumi
2. Wakita
3. Kuroda
4. Kansuke
5. Mary
6. Iori

That would make Iori more likely, since he's the "weakest", since from the narrative, he's not made to seem suspicious at all(like Conan taking notice of his effeminate similarity to Rum's description for example).

How Conan observe that, if he hasn't met him yet without the disguise in the manga?

Also, what about the Bourbon suspects in this? Their suspicion strength was:

1. Subaru
2. Amuro
3. Masumi

So there, in the only other arc with multiple suspects presented in the narrative, it wasn't the weakest suspect.

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