Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

TheNightBaroness wrote:
September 16th, 2020, 5:28 am
Hi guys, it's The NightBaroness speaking :)

I have been thinking about RUM's identity for a while. The other day I was going through some chapters where Ai describes RUM and I just came up with a line of thought. You probably discussed it here, but I'd like to give it a shot just in case you haven't, to see what you think about it.

My line of thought had something to do with thinking of RUM as a pirate. You know, there are many references to piracy when talking about RUM: the missing or prosthetic eye, their codename refers to pirate's favorite drink, the line Wakita says about "Pirate's spirit is such a weak horse", implying RUM might be a weak agent or something... also, I took into account the BO rumours about RUM appearence, which happens to be "sometimes effeminate, sometimes old, sometimes a strong man".

Following the Rum-is-a-pirate line of thought, I went to my shelf and re-read the Stevenson's book "Treasure Island." I found a very curious coincidence with our RUM's intel and an evil pirate called Blind Pew. If you haven't read it, I'll sum up his attributes. (Also, find them in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island)
  • - BLind Pew lost his sight in some kind of battle -> RUM damaged one eye in an incident.
- Blind Pew is a skilled fighter despite his blindness -> RUM is implied to be strong even with his one-eyed condition (see suspects: Kuroda, Wakasa and Wakita)
  • Blind Pew is considered to be some kind of leader -> RUM is second in command.
    • Blind Pew has two henchmen that aid him whenever he asks -> this is somewhat delicate. If Gosho Aoyama based RUM in this character (dunno, sometimes he references old stories, and this is one of a classic) maybe we could interpret the RUM suspects as RUM's right and left arm?

      This is mere speculation.

      One could imagine that Wakita (codename: Highbal, as many suggested) could be one of the two RUM's confident, sent to investigate Kogoro Mouri. Wakasa Rumi (codename:Whiskey??), on the other hand, could be the other confident sent to investigate Conan as the brain behind Sleeping Kogoro. That could somehow explain why Wakasa has the APTX list (how could she, if she isn't a BO member? Is she another spy?). Also, this would be another way to interpret Gosho's answer when he said that RUM was among the Kuroda-Wakasa-Wakita trio, just not in the way fans expected.

      Now, who is real RUM?

      There was the theory of Chikara Katsumata's (name rearanged: Hikkata Karasuma) character as Haneda Shuckichi's big shogi rival, who "coincidently" made his first appearance right after RUM was introduced as a character in the Scarlet Prologue. He appeared after that in the marriage registration paper case and indirectly in the Haneda and Akai case.

      This is mere speculation, but imagine that he (Katsumata) is RUM and he ordered Asaka (Wakasa) to kill Amanda Hughes because of her contacts with FBI and CIA. He also added Haneda Koji to the equation because he would pose as a direct shogi rival for him.

      I read that Haneda's dying message could be interpreted as Karasuma + scissors (Katta) + the missing shogi piece. Dunno if there is something like "Hi" in shogi. Haneda could have offered resistence (hence Wakasa's scars, missing eye and memories) and built the message in regards to his rival.

      Gin said RUM screwed up the case, but he never said that RUM was present. HE could have sent one of his confidents. Also, I find it extremely strange that RUM messed up Haneda Koji's case and was never punished with death for that. Pisco was killed by Gin under The Boss's command when he messed up the Haido Assassination.
      • Another interesting thing about Blind Pew (Treasure Island) is that he died crushed by a horse
      -> There is some shogi piece called UMA involved, right? It could be an analogy between the two characters. That UMA shogi piece could pose as a very dangerous thread to RUM. ???

      About Kuroda, I think he is just a PSB leader [/align]and, perhaps, Akai daddy. I do not consider him nor RUM nor a RUM's confident.

      So far, we don't know RUM's goals. We know he is very interested in Kudo Shinichi recently, and that is why he ordered Bourbon to report about him. Maybe his goals before that had something to do with Sleeping Kogoro and hence why he sends his associates. He couldn't do it himself if he is a famous shogi player. Like Vermouth can't show herself if she isn't in disguise. Only RUM lacks the ability.

      This was my line of thought. I'm sure I'm wrong, let me know!! :)
there is also a theory of muga iori being rum. I have given it on page 86 and 87 of my thread.read if if you are intersted.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

TheNightBaroness

I will explain to you why Gosho made Karasuma Rynea number 2 and not number 1 as it was before . Honestly , it is an extremely intelligent Gosho move , as expected of him as usual .

Suppose that Karasuma Rynea is the current Boss , so what will the fans do when Arc Rum ends and Arc Boss begins , they will ignore all the new characters that will appear and will only search for the new Karasuma Rynea identity , Gosho knows that fans will ignore Karasuma Rynea and they won't search for his new identity in Arc Rum , and this is what Gosho wants . Since the fans are now very focused on identity of Rum among the three suspects . Fans won't search for the new identity of Karasuma Rynea in this arc , so Gosho put Chikara Katsumata / Karasuma Rynea in Arc Rum because it will not be emphasized in the current Arc by fans .

And when the fans know later that Chikara Katsumata is RUM / not the current boss , they will be surprised and ask why Goshu ? Didn't you show us in manga that Karasuma Rynea is the Boss ? Gosho will say : Yes ;D He was the former boss , but because of his many mistakes in Kohji's case , Karasuma/chikara became RUM and another Boss was appointed , and you must search for the new Boss when Arc boss begins .
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DCUniverseAficionado
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 12:15 am
He was the former boss , but because of his many mistakes in Kohji's case , Karasuma/chikara became RUM and another Boss was appointed , and you must search for the new Boss when Arc boss begins .
Under who's authority? Who has the clout and influence to tell the original founder to lose rank, and then force him to accept a lower position? Not only that, why leave Karasuma alive if this person already has the power to force Karasuma to lose rank? Why risk him making a play to regain his former leadership and get revenge for being humiliated?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 12:40 am
Under who's authority? Who has the clout and influence to tell the original founder to lose rank, and then force him to accept a lower position? Not only that, why leave Karasuma alive if this person already has the power to force Karasuma to lose rank? Why risk him making a play to regain his former leadership and get revenge for being humiliated?
Chikara / Karasuma now has full influence over all members of BO , but he now has the codename "RUM" while the new Boss has the name "Anokata" , I mean it is only a change in names .

It is not a legal organization to say there is a assignment and change of positions , there may be no positions in it , but Codenames may be inherited and transferred between them .

Almost everyone of high position in BO knows Karasuma's mistakes in the Kohji's case as Gin said to vodka in soul detective case . In your opinion , what will the organization do after they know about their Boss/Karasuma mistakes ?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 1:15 am
what will the organization do after they know about their Boss/Karasuma mistakes ?
Since you've brought it up, let's go over what we do know about Rum after the case.
Goshō said in SDB Black+ that the reason Rum wasn't executed for this mishap was "because he's #2." That implies he was already #2 when the Kōji case happened (and there's the telling implication that if you're high-ranking enough, you'll be spared after a blunder).

Now, even if it's revealed later that there's a new/current Rum and an old/former Rum and a new/current Anokata and an old/former Anokata, the precedent we have in the BO is this—superiors punish subordinates. There's no precedent for subordinates rebelling against the ultimate superior.
Members like Gin, Vodka, Chianti and Korn losing faith in the BO would lead to two possible outcomes—other BO members their rank would simply leave the BO for an organization with a boss that didn't make such mistakes, causing a depletion of manpower in the BO, or other members their rank would tow the line, and then be sent after deserters to eliminate them.
The fact that the BO has remained so undetected and untouched for so long, to the point that government intelligence organizations are struggling to put them down indicates that there's nowhere near enough chaos within the organization to cause something like a mass desertion, which would create many witnesses and be such a information leak risk for the BO. There's no indication the boss "screwing up" would lead to a mutiny on the part of the other members, or cause a mass desertion.
The boss of the BO suddenly becoming #2 would point to two possibilities—he either stepped down willingly, or was forced to step down. From Karasuma's actions in the Sunset Manor case (File 299–File 302/Episode 219) seem to point to a man that has too much ego and ambition to simply give up power. Which brings us back to the question—who has the power to force a man like that to step aside? There's no indication of such a person.

Things like the BO's symbol being crows, yet the person who could destroy the BO being equated to a silver bullet, something that kills werewolves... until we get more specific information regarding such matters, I'm not willing to speculate too much on whether Renya Karasuma is the current BO boss or not.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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