Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Thank you DCUniverseAficionado and Spimer

It is possible that Vermouth was disguised as Shiho Miyano On trip to that island .
Vermouth's condition is exactly the same as Chikara , they somehow return to their youth and preserve it .

There is a relationship between Chikara and Vermouth to a large extent , because Bourbon in episode 783 discovered that relationship between her and the boss , and since this episode was the start of Arc Rum , so I think Gosho means the relationship between Vermouth and the former boss / Karasuma / Chikara / Rum .

In anime Magic Kaito 1412 , the second in command in a dangerous organization was looking for a jewel which would give them eternal youth . So it is possible that Vermoth and Chikara got that jewel .

But why did Vodka , Gin and (vermoth / Shiho Miyano) go to that island !!! and was RUM with them or not ?? ??? ???
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 29th, 2020, 6:13 pm
In anime Magic Kaito 1412 , the second in command in a dangerous organization was looking for a jewel which would give them eternal youth . So it is possible that Vermoth and Chikara got that jewel .
No, I'm afraid that's just not in the cards.

Due to not wanting Akako Koizumi and her literal magic to be involved in DC, Goshō has deliberately chosen to only have Kid, Saguru Hakuba and Inspector Nakamori appear more than once in DC—the chances of the Organization in Magic Kaito (and its operatives, like Snake) actually appearing in DC, let alone them having such significant involvement in DC's plot (i.e., the literally magical Pandora jewel ending up in the BO's hands), are basically none.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Spimer
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Spimer »

I find it unlikely would go out of her way to pose as Shiho (whom she hates) even if it was an order and investigate a topic (immortality) which she probably hates too.

It's more simpler to assume Shiho herself was there and Gin and Vodka also were, either as watchers or had other business in the island as well.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Spimer

Please , Can you translate rest of names appearing in the list ? there is fifth on the right and left , but their names is not completely visible . :) :) ;D

DCUniverseAficionado

I didn't mean that the snake was involved in Detective Conan anime , I meant may be the Pandora jewel or something like it is also in DC and it is the reason for youth of Vermouth and Chikara , I mean also drugs of Atsushi and Haibara have no relation with the youth of Vermouth and Chikara .

I do not know how many drugs Atsushi and Elena made , but as we know BO were seeking for the perfect crime , I think Atsushi's drug was intended to kill without a trace of the drug itself, I mean the drug kills the person and then the drug itself disappears inside the body , so Investigators will be confused about the cause of killing , this may explain somewhat why it is written on the blog that the reason for killing Kohji and Amanda is unknown .

As for Haibara's drug , it does something different , but it also seeks for the perfect crime . I think Haibara's hides the person himself , i mean when someone takes the drug , the drug gradually reduces this person until his body disappears completely , as if he did not exist in the world but in the case of Haibara and Conan , they would disappear from life and also their bodies , but the effect of the drug stopped when their body got smaller .

In the current chapters 1058 1059 1060 , We have :

1- messy rooms and locked rooms , which is similar to what happened in the Kohji case .

2- the killer is famous woman who appears on TV and Chikara is a famous person who appears on TV .

3- The evidence of her crimes that she carries a watch related to a game , we also have a piece with Wakasa related to shogi game and also related to revealing the identity of (Kohji's killer/Chikara) , the Shogi piece reveals to us the dying message that Kohji wants to leave . Perhaps Chikara's fingerprints are on this piece so it is a strong evidence against him . If these fingerprints are correct, it reminds us of Vermouth when she killed Jodie's father and Vermouth fingerprints were on the glasses which Jodie wore .

4- Yusaku / Kid / Vermouth said the killer made many mistakes in her crimes , the same as Gin said about Rum who made many mistakes in Kohji case .
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 31st, 2020, 7:37 pm
I didn't mean that the snake was involved in Detective Conan anime , I meant may be the Pandora jewel or something like it is also in DC and it is the reason for youth of Vermouth and Chikara
I'm not just saying that the odds of Snake making a plot-relevant appearance is practically none.
The Pandora jewel being the cause of Vermouth's lack of aging is also practically none.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Spimer
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Spimer »

https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wik ... 69_Victims

^Here all names on the list; take into account that even if glimpses of other names can be seen sometimes depending on the version of the list, they're not clear enough to be read.

Chikara is "famous" within the world of shogi as a veteran player; doesn't mean he's a national star.

I doubt the killer would be careless enough to leave fingerprints in any object; even if they were in a rush.

I think the most likely reason Rumi has the piece is as a mere memento.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by sanchai95 »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 9:39 am
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
May 2nd, 2020, 5:11 am
Now let's look at all the suspicious people gathered
1) Kuroda (Strongly built, has white hair, likes tea which is considered a womanly drink. Possibly his right eye is prosthetic.)-4
2) Rumi (is a woman so shouldn't be on this list, one right eye is sort of dysfunctional.)-1
3) Wakita(Old man, has old man like bent back and bent knees, wears an eye-patch.)-2
4) Iori (Athletic build, womanly hair. No eye issue observed.)-2
5) Chikara Katsumata (Is a shogi player so might culture some womanly habits, average built, could be termed old/middle aged/oji-san, no eye issue observed.)-1.5
I want to tell you my expectations about the identities of people in arc Rum in abbreviation and you can tell me your opinion about mine , and also tell me your expectations about identity of the same people :
1- Rum is Karasuma, and he is Chikara Katsumata , I'm really sure of this .
2- Kuroda is the boss of the NPA , the father of Haneda Koji , because there is a similarity between them in the face, hair, and even glasses 8-) ;D , I do not think he is Tsutomo because Tsutomu is smart but Kuroda seems that Kuroda does not have the intelligence of Tsutomo because he is still investigate the truth about case that occurred 17 years ago until now and it seems that he did not arrive for real criminal .
3- Wakasa Rumi is Asaka , and she is the young sister of Atsushi and the love of Hanyida Koji . my personal opinion that Wakasa Rumi told the truth to Haibara about relationship between them , so we found that Haibara suddenly loved and rested her , ordered Conan not to make fun of Wakasa Rumi and not suspecting her , this is very strange to Haibara who is afraid From Bourbon , so this is my personal opinion that Haibara is the one who gave the APTX victims list to Wakasa Rumi , because the list is very recent and the name Kudo Sinchi is written on it , I think it is only in the possession of Haibara , Wakasa Rumi requested it from Haibara because the name Haneda Koji is in it, she loves anything that reminds her about Haneda like also bishop shogi piece , so Haibara knows the identity of Wakasa Rumi but hides this from Conan as also Conan know The identity of okiya Subaru and hides this from her .
4 Wakita , is subordinated from Gin, to investigate Mori Kogoro , went to Kudo Sinchi's house so quickly because Gin ordered him to do because it would be a fatal mistake for Gin that Kudo Sinchi was alive . Gin catch a slip on Rum's mistakes 17 years ago , so Rum orders Bourbon to go to Kudo Sinchi's house very quickly to catch also slips on Gin's mistakes about Kuso Sinchi .
5- Iori Muga has been excluded from being a rum or asaka because he is very young 17 years ago , he was only 13 years .
We have :
Four known FBI members: James Black , Akai , Judy and Camel
Four known NPA members : Kuroda , Bourbon , Kazami and Scotch who suicide .
why Mi6 also has such a 4 members Mary , Wakasa Rumi , Iori Muga and another some one else , may be sakurako yonehara ;D ;D

What is your comment on my expectations , and what are your personal expectations about same members ?? :)
Wait Iori Muga is MI6? How? Who is Kazami again?

I forgot about Sakurako, is that still a theory haha
I started reading Detective Conan as a kid, I loved every part of it even when I didn't understand the science or logic behind a case. Now as an adult, it's bitter sweet knowing the series has lasted this long, because I am still surprised at what Gosho has to offer but sad knowing soon a big part of my life will come to an end. I'm glad to know there are people out there who love this series as much as I do and is willing to lose sleep just to discuss the intricate plot.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

sanchai95 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:08 pm
Wait Iori Muga is MI6? How?
This is just a theory, at this point.

Basically, the three possibilities for Muga are:
1) He's Rum
2) He's a secret agent
3) He's just a butler
sanchai95 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:08 pm
Who is Kazami again?
You know how Andre Camel is Akai's subordinate? Kazami is that for Amuro.
sanchai95 wrote:
September 3rd, 2020, 4:08 pm
I forgot about Sakurako, is that still a theory haha
A longshot imo, but yes, it's still a theory.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by blackmoon »

Uh.......................... just wanted to continue the topic\question raised from the other RUM discussion thread that was locked\closed.... someone asked the question about why a "shrunken person" can't seem to trust another "shrunken person" specifically referring to Mary seemingly being wary of Shinichi despite being in the same boat and wondering if that was just Gosho's "delay tactics" to postpone her eventually meeting up with Shinichi\Conan. So... is there any reason why Mary should be so cautious with Shinichi despite wanting the antidote and maybe even his help? ;D

Image Image

Hmmm.... i wonder ::)
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

blackmoon wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
Uh.......................... just wanted to continue the topic\question raised from the other RUM discussion thread that was locked\closed.... someone asked the question about why a "shrunken person" can't seem to trust another "shrunken person" specifically referring to Mary seemingly being wary of Shinichi despite being in the same boat and wondering if that was just Gosho's "delay tactics" to postpone her eventually meeting up with Shinichi\Conan. So... is there any reason why Mary should be so cautious with Shinichi despite wanting the antidote and maybe even his help? ;D
The out-of-universe reason is indeed so Goshō can keep things as they are.

As for the in-universe reason, Shinichi's/Conan's suspicion from the Hotta case (951–953/863–864) that Mary could be Asaka, and thus Rum, probably wasn't dispelled until the mirror message was revealed to be CARASUMA. As for Mary, there are variety of reasons she would be on guard before and especially after she was shrunk. It will probably take the involvement of every member of Team Shinichi/Conan (and maybe even Shūkichi) to convince Mary to drop her guard.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by sanchai95 »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 12:23 am
blackmoon wrote:
September 4th, 2020, 8:07 am
Uh.......................... just wanted to continue the topic\question raised from the other RUM discussion thread that was locked\closed.... someone asked the question about why a "shrunken person" can't seem to trust another "shrunken person" specifically referring to Mary seemingly being wary of Shinichi despite being in the same boat and wondering if that was just Gosho's "delay tactics" to postpone her eventually meeting up with Shinichi\Conan. So... is there any reason why Mary should be so cautious with Shinichi despite wanting the antidote and maybe even his help? ;D
The out-of-universe reason is indeed so Goshō can keep things as they are.

As for the in-universe reason, Shinichi's/Conan's suspicion from the Hotta case (951–953/863–864) that Mary could be Asaka, and thus Rum, probably wasn't dispelled until the mirror message was revealed to be CARASUMA. As for Mary, there are variety of reasons she would be on guard before and especially after she was shrunk. It will probably take the involvement of every member of Team Shinichi/Conan (and maybe even Shūkichi) to convince Mary to drop her guard.
First of all love your display picture! Second of all I'd like to add that it's also to do with Mary's previous position as being a field agent. You can never trust anyone! Even if they seem like a comrade. The BO itself has this mentality with their new recruits. Eg Ethan Hondous death.

Also does anyone have any guesses on James knowing Mary/Akai family/dad?
I started reading Detective Conan as a kid, I loved every part of it even when I didn't understand the science or logic behind a case. Now as an adult, it's bitter sweet knowing the series has lasted this long, because I am still surprised at what Gosho has to offer but sad knowing soon a big part of my life will come to an end. I'm glad to know there are people out there who love this series as much as I do and is willing to lose sleep just to discuss the intricate plot.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

sanchai95 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 2:45 pm
First of all love your display picture!
Thanks! ;D
sanchai95 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Also does anyone have any guesses on James knowing Mary/Akai family/dad?
He was originally born in the U.K., so a connection to MI6 is certainly possible, and he has Japanese contacts (the Haido Central Hospital director from Clash of Red and Black), so he could've encountered Tsutomu, as well (either that, or his and Tsutomu's first encounter was through Mary and MI6).

Above all, he's one of the few who correctly identified Masumi as a she (File 780/Episode 651)—that seems to hint that he was already aware of that fact (even if he didn't know Tsutomu or Mary, he likely would've known due to being Shūichi's superior).

At this point, imo, the "family friend" who Masumi says is paying for her and Mary's stays at all these hotels—assuming this person is an actual character who has at least been mentioned and isn't some random character who will never appear or be named—is either James, or Kōji Haneda's father (who was an old friend of Tsutomu's who asked him to investigate the Kōji case to begin with).
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
blackmoon

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by blackmoon »

sanchai95 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 2:45 pm
Also does anyone have any guesses on James knowing Mary/Akai family/dad?
Good question.... i wonder who was the person Jodie thought Sera resembled?
Image

And... Haibara seemed to feel something strange when first meeting James...
Image

No idea if there is any further connections there, but there is an interesting deduction from here:
https://meitanteisonoko.tumblr.com/post ... big-secret
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

blackmoon wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 8:14 am
i wonder who was the person Jodie thought Sera resembled?
Image
Shūichi. May not be an interesting answer, but it's the most likely.
blackmoon wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 8:14 am
And... Haibara seemed to feel something strange when first meeting James...
Image

No idea if there is any further connections there, but there is an interesting deduction from here:
https://meitanteisonoko.tumblr.com/post ... big-secret
Ah, the "James is BO" theory...

Honestly, I don't buy it. The only use I have for it is in keeping it in a list of longshot theories, just in case any of those longshots turn out to be true.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by TheNightBaroness »

Hi guys, it's The NightBaroness speaking :)

I have been thinking about RUM's identity for a while. The other day I was going through some chapters where Ai describes RUM and I just came up with a line of thought. You probably discussed it here, but I'd like to give it a shot just in case you haven't, to see what you think about it.

My line of thought had something to do with thinking of RUM as a pirate. You know, there are many references to piracy when talking about RUM: the missing or prosthetic eye, their codename refers to pirate's favorite drink, the line Wakita says about "Pirate's spirit is such a weak horse", implying RUM might be a weak agent or something... also, I took into account the BO rumours about RUM appearence, which happens to be "sometimes effeminate, sometimes old, sometimes a strong man".

Following the Rum-is-a-pirate line of thought, I went to my shelf and re-read the Stevenson's book "Treasure Island." I found a very curious coincidence with our RUM's intel and an evil pirate called Blind Pew. If you haven't read it, I'll sum up his attributes. (Also, find them in wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island)
  • - BLind Pew lost his sight in some kind of battle -> RUM damaged one eye in an incident.
- Blind Pew is a skilled fighter despite his blindness -> RUM is implied to be strong even with his one-eyed condition (see suspects: Kuroda, Wakasa and Wakita)
  • Blind Pew is considered to be some kind of leader -> RUM is second in command.
    • Blind Pew has two henchmen that aid him whenever he asks -> this is somewhat delicate. If Gosho Aoyama based RUM in this character (dunno, sometimes he references old stories, and this is one of a classic) maybe we could interpret the RUM suspects as RUM's right and left arm?

      This is mere speculation.

      One could imagine that Wakita (codename: Highbal, as many suggested) could be one of the two RUM's confident, sent to investigate Kogoro Mouri. Wakasa Rumi (codename:Whiskey??), on the other hand, could be the other confident sent to investigate Conan as the brain behind Sleeping Kogoro. That could somehow explain why Wakasa has the APTX list (how could she, if she isn't a BO member? Is she another spy?). Also, this would be another way to interpret Gosho's answer when he said that RUM was among the Kuroda-Wakasa-Wakita trio, just not in the way fans expected.

      Now, who is real RUM?

      There was the theory of Chikara Katsumata's (name rearanged: Hikkata Karasuma) character as Haneda Shuckichi's big shogi rival, who "coincidently" made his first appearance right after RUM was introduced as a character in the Scarlet Prologue. He appeared after that in the marriage registration paper case and indirectly in the Haneda and Akai case.

      This is mere speculation, but imagine that he (Katsumata) is RUM and he ordered Asaka (Wakasa) to kill Amanda Hughes because of her contacts with FBI and CIA. He also added Haneda Koji to the equation because he would pose as a direct shogi rival for him.

      I read that Haneda's dying message could be interpreted as Karasuma + scissors (Katta) + the missing shogi piece. Dunno if there is something like "Hi" in shogi. Haneda could have offered resistence (hence Wakasa's scars, missing eye and memories) and built the message in regards to his rival.

      Gin said RUM screwed up the case, but he never said that RUM was present. HE could have sent one of his confidents. Also, I find it extremely strange that RUM messed up Haneda Koji's case and was never punished with death for that. Pisco was killed by Gin under The Boss's command when he messed up the Haido Assassination.
      • Another interesting thing about Blind Pew (Treasure Island) is that he died crushed by a horse
      -> There is some shogi piece called UMA involved, right? It could be an analogy between the two characters. That UMA shogi piece could pose as a very dangerous thread to RUM. ???

      About Kuroda, I think he is just a PSB leader [/align]and, perhaps, Akai daddy. I do not consider him nor RUM nor a RUM's confident.

      So far, we don't know RUM's goals. We know he is very interested in Kudo Shinichi recently, and that is why he ordered Bourbon to report about him. Maybe his goals before that had something to do with Sleeping Kogoro and hence why he sends his associates. He couldn't do it himself if he is a famous shogi player. Like Vermouth can't show herself if she isn't in disguise. Only RUM lacks the ability.

      This was my line of thought. I'm sure I'm wrong, let me know!! :)
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