Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

blackmoon wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 6:39 am
by the way according to the timeline...
≈20 years ago
Atsushi Miyano, Elena Miyano, and a 4-5 year old Akemi visited Atsushi Miyano's father's house then occupied by his childhood friend and playmate Souhei Degima. (https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Timeline)
but according to file 423, their family was already being "watched" even prior to them joining the Karasuma Group... so who would be tailing them at the time?
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it was roughly 20 years ago, but it was actually 19 years ago, after they joined Karasuma Group. This was confirmed in the Black trajectory table in SDB Black+.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

blackmoon wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 6:39 am
Well the point is... B.O. having so many undercover agents from FBI, CIA, the Japanese police and possibly even MI6 (if you count the ones from the movie the Darkest nightmare) simply means that they already got the attention of most government agencies, and they have been poking their noses into B.O.'s business.
Correct. And they haven't much to show for it.
blackmoon wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 6:39 am
The question I'm asking was why they haven't seem to discover the potential link between B.O. and the Karasuma Group? The focus of the spotlight seems to be on B.O. but so far only Yusaku Kudo (who solved Kohji's dying message) and Conan (who figured that B.O.'s boss used the song of Seven Baby Crows or The Crow's Seven Chicks to encode his phone numbe) seem to have found some connection to that.
"Seem"

There hasn't been a scene where James, Jodie, Andre or Hidemi/Rena/Kir have gone "what?! the Karasuma Group?! it was them?!" Until we get a scene like that, and, also, until we know whether or not the Karasuma Group still exists as a corporate entity—and if they really were dissolved, just when did they dissolve, since if it was 19-17 years ago, any investigation into them after that would be stymied—there's no reason for me to assume they haven't made a connection.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Honestly , I was not excited about events after BO discovered that Kudo Shinchi is alive , because this is Goshu style of making you excited about events so much , and then everything returns as it was and as if nothing had happened .

We have seen in some movies that kid looks a lot like Shinchi , changing his hair style only makes him Shinchi , without need for mask or even a voice changer .
This may be Yusaku and Conan’s plan to make BO believe that Kid is the one who appeared in front of them on TV , so everything ends simply , we have already seen many of those events in previous episodes .
1- Gin is about to kill Mouri and Conan ,then they end up being rescued by Akai .
2- Gin would discover that the one who placed the bugging device on the Itakura program CD is Conan , then it ends up that Gin opens half the cupboard door and does not kill Conan .
3- Vermouth will kill Haibara at the port , then she is rescued by Judy and Akai .
4- Vermouth will kill Haibara again in the Mystery Train , then she is rescued by Akai , Yukiko , Conan and Kid .
5- we are here now , BO discovered that Kudo Shinchi is alive , then in the end with a simple plan , it will make them believe that the one who appeared in front of them is Kaito Kid who looks a lot like Kudo shinchi .

It might be a plan from Yusaku and Conan to ask Kid for help , or Kid may help them himself without asking him to do , I mean after Yusaku/ Kid finishes showing his conclusions on TV in current chapters , he may take off his disguise in front of people and say : " I disguised as Yusaku to clear myself and I had previously disguised as kudo Shinchi on the Scarlet School Journey " , then Shinchi will be cleared in BO .

So it may be a plan by Kid himself to clear Shinchi because Kid had noticed that Shinichi was in trouble after an announcement that he was alive . Kid knows that Conan is involved with a bad organization because he keeps his true identity secret from Ran , Mouri and most people . Also Kid wants to thank them because they will clear him from the accusation against him in Chapter 1058 .
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
Honestly , I was not excited about events after BO discovered that Kudo Shinchi is alive , because this is Goshu style of making you excited about events so much , and then everything returns as it was and as if nothing had happened .
Yep, even during the Conan arc, Haibara arc and Vermouth arc, this rule held sway:
Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
2- Gin would discover that the one who placed the bugging device on the Itakura program CD is Conan , then it ends up that Gin opens half the cupboard door and does not kill Conan .
3- Vermouth will kill Haibara at the port , then she is rescued by Judy and Akai .
This rule continuing past those arcs (and these two Vermouth arc cases you mention) up to now (at this point, the Bourbon arc and the Rum arc make up half the series—Conan arc to Kir arc: 1994–2007; Bourbon arc to Rum arc: 2007–present) only magnifies the frustration/boredom.
Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
We have seen in some movies that kid looks a lot like Shinchi , changing his hair style only makes him Shinchi , without need for mask or even a voice changer .
This may be Yusaku and Conan’s plan to make BO believe that Kid is the one who appeared in front of them on TV , so everything ends simply , we have already seen many of those events in previous episodes .

It might be a plan from Yusaku and Conan to ask Kid for help , or Kid may help them himself without asking him to do , I mean after Yusaku/ Kid finishes showing his conclusions on TV in current chapters , he may take off his disguise in front of people and say : " I disguised as Yusaku to clear myself and I had previously disguised as kudo Shinchi on the Scarlet School Journey " , then Shinchi will be cleared in BO .

So it may be a plan by Kid himself to clear Shinchi because Kid had noticed that Shinichi was in trouble after an announcement that he was alive . Kid knows that Conan is involved with a bad organization because he keeps his true identity secret from Ran , Mouri and most people . Also Kid wants to thank them because they will clear him from the accusation against him in Chapter 1058 .
The false accusation against Kid was already cleared (Page 2 of 1,058).

Shinichi/Conan sounds surprised—even in the internal monologue of his own thoughts—when Kid shows up (Page 16 of 1,058), so if this is a plan, then it's all Yusaku and Kid.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 3:31 pm
Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
Honestly , I was not excited about events after BO discovered that Kudo Shinchi is alive , because this is Goshu style of making you excited about events so much , and then everything returns as it was and as if nothing had happened .
Yep, even during the Conan arc, Haibara arc and Vermouth arc, this rule held sway:
Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
2- Gin would discover that the one who placed the bugging device on the Itakura program CD is Conan , then it ends up that Gin opens half the cupboard door and does not kill Conan .
3- Vermouth will kill Haibara at the port , then she is rescued by Judy and Akai .
This rule continuing past those arcs (and these two Vermouth arc cases you mention) up to now (at this point, the Bourbon arc and the Rum arc make up half the series—Conan arc to Kir arc: 1994–2007; Bourbon arc to Rum arc: 2007–present) only magnifies the frustration/boredom.
Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
We have seen in some movies that kid looks a lot like Shinchi , changing his hair style only makes him Shinchi , without need for mask or even a voice changer .
This may be Yusaku and Conan’s plan to make BO believe that Kid is the one who appeared in front of them on TV , so everything ends simply , we have already seen many of those events in previous episodes .

It might be a plan from Yusaku and Conan to ask Kid for help , or Kid may help them himself without asking him to do , I mean after Yusaku/ Kid finishes showing his conclusions on TV in current chapters , he may take off his disguise in front of people and say : " I disguised as Yusaku to clear myself and I had previously disguised as kudo Shinchi on the Scarlet School Journey " , then Shinchi will be cleared in BO .

So it may be a plan by Kid himself to clear Shinchi because Kid had noticed that Shinichi was in trouble after an announcement that he was alive . Kid knows that Conan is involved with a bad organization because he keeps his true identity secret from Ran , Mouri and most people . Also Kid wants to thank them because they will clear him from the accusation against him in Chapter 1058 .
The false accusation against Kid was already cleared (Page 2 of 1,058).

Shinichi/Conan sounds surprised—even in the internal monologue of his own thoughts—when Kid shows up (Page 16 of 1,058), so if this is a plan, then it's all Yusaku and Kid.
this is not a plan of yusaku and kid. kid saw conan and yukiko at drugstore and heard the problem. then he himself came in dressed as yusaku to repay debts of yusaku.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:07 am
Honestly , I was not excited about events after BO discovered that Kudo Shinchi is alive , because this is Goshu style of making you excited about events so much , and then everything returns as it was and as if nothing had happened .

We have seen in some movies that kid looks a lot like Shinchi , changing his hair style only makes him Shinchi , without need for mask or even a voice changer .
This may be Yusaku and Conan’s plan to make BO believe that Kid is the one who appeared in front of them on TV , so everything ends simply , we have already seen many of those events in previous episodes .
1- Gin is about to kill Mouri and Conan ,then they end up being rescued by Akai .
2- Gin would discover that the one who placed the bugging device on the Itakura program CD is Conan , then it ends up that Gin opens half the cupboard door and does not kill Conan .
3- Vermouth will kill Haibara at the port , then she is rescued by Judy and Akai .
4- Vermouth will kill Haibara again in the Mystery Train , then she is rescued by Akai , Yukiko , Conan and Kid .
5- we are here now , BO discovered that Kudo Shinchi is alive , then in the end with a simple plan , it will make them believe that the one who appeared in front of them is Kaito Kid who looks a lot like Kudo shinchi .

It might be a plan from Yusaku and Conan to ask Kid for help , or Kid may help them himself without asking him to do , I mean after Yusaku/ Kid finishes showing his conclusions on TV in current chapters , he may take off his disguise in front of people and say : " I disguised as Yusaku to clear myself and I had previously disguised as kudo Shinchi on the Scarlet School Journey " , then Shinchi will be cleared in BO .

So it may be a plan by Kid himself to clear Shinchi because Kid had noticed that Shinichi was in trouble after an announcement that he was alive . Kid knows that Conan is involved with a bad organization because he keeps his true identity secret from Ran , Mouri and most people . Also Kid wants to thank them because they will clear him from the accusation against him in Chapter 1058 .
No Mohammed . in file 1008 heiji already told reporters that guy with him on tv was not shinichi but soshi okita.

why you again want kid to say that shinichi was kid.
this would even solidify doubt of bo.
bo would easily catch that either kid is lying or heiji.

now if you ask me why even aftertelling that shinichi in kyoto was okita why rum is still asking bourbon for info?
to be exact just after heiji told that shinichi in kyoto is okita
rum messaged bourbon about shinichi.
to me it sounds that rum knows okita and knows he is diff person than shinichi and rum was present in kyoto and saw shinichi and okita both thus knowing heiji is lying.
and thus wants info regarding shinichi to understand whats going on here . whats being hidden .
he knows shinichi is aptx victim.

and even if rum doesnt know okita still your point that kid will save conan by telling he was that shinichi will still harm conan rather than protecting him coz heiji already told reporters that guy at kyoto suspected to be shinichi
was kendo player soshi okita.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

vaibhavgupte

It is unlikely that Bo heard words of Heiji that the one who appeared is Okita , or they may have heard but they are not convinced of this . As for Kaito, he is a perfectly suitable person to play the role of Shinichi because he is exactly like him in everything except hair style, so if Kaito appeared in TV looked like Shinchi and announced he was the one who was present on the Crimson School trip , not Shinchi .

Also, keep in mind that Kid may do so at end of his current deduction show and he is now in Kudu Palace disguised as his father , so everyone will believe that Kid is masquerading as that family in certain times .

Then , i think it will be fine in BO

DCUniverseAficionado

It could be a plan from Yusaku and Kid , okay

It is noted in recent cases that there is a person who has locked himself in a closed room to create a message after receiving a blow from someone ,, I think this is a reference to Wakasa Rumi who may have received a blow from RUM in her eye , after which she rushed to enter the bathroom And closed herself up and made the mirror message that refers to Karasuma , because making that message with a mirror takes time because the letter "U" is engraved in form of a shogi piece and also to be able to remove the letters of Karasuma and leave the letters P - T - O - N in the mirror .
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 5:46 am
this is not a plan of yusaku and kid. kid saw conan and yukiko at drugstore and heard the problem. then he himself came in dressed as yusaku to repay debts of yusaku.
Him overhearing them isn't enough by itself to dismiss the theory, imo.
Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 10:12 am
It is noted in recent cases that there is a person who has locked himself in a closed room to create a message after receiving a blow from someone ,, I think this is a reference to Wakasa Rumi who may have received a blow from RUM in her eye , after which she rushed to enter the bathroom And closed herself up and made the mirror message that refers to Karasuma , because making that message with a mirror takes time because the letter "U" is engraved in form of a shogi piece and also to be able to remove the letters of Karasuma and leave the letters P - T - O - N in the mirror .
It could also be referring to Kōji, himself. After all, the victim of 1,055–1,057 died.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by [email protected] »

I guess Rum is Chikara Katsumata
Cause in Haneda koji's dying message we have Carasuma or Karasuma
We get Kara from CHIKARA and suma from katSUMAta :o ???
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

[email protected], if you are into chikara=rum, Mohamed has a theory on page 84 of this thread.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Idon'tknow »

I'm wondering why vermouth gave Mary the APTX 4869 when she knew it wouldn't kill her but shrink her...
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Max1996 »

Idon'tknow wrote:
August 14th, 2020, 11:20 am
I'm wondering why vermouth gave Mary the APTX 4869 when she knew it wouldn't kill her but shrink her...
Because it almost always actually kills? Prior to Mary, Shinichi/Conan and Sherry/Haibara are the outliers here.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

DCUniverseAficionado

It is not always a condition when a victim in a casual case hints at a victim like Kohji , the reference may be to someone's action in Kohji case , not a condition he is alluding to Kohji himself .

I'll give you an example :
In Chapter 1056 , Conan said that the victim had used a code but did not know that code would be used against him . Is Conan’s words an allusion to Kohji because he is also the victim ? I don't think so because I'm almost sure this is a hint of Wakasa Rumi , not a hint to Kohji .
Because Wakasa left the mirror message to refer to Karasuma , but that code although Wakasa was the one who made it , it was used against her in two times :

1- Akai and conan initially concluded the message is Asaka Rum not Karasuma , which means they concluded Asaka , which is Wakasa, is the second most dangerous bad individual in BO "RUM" .
2- Kuroda concluded the code refers to Wakasa Rumi not Karasuma , and that is why he went to meet Wakasa in the case of the burning tent .
I mean even though Wakasa was the one who created this message , to refer that Karasuma is the culprit , but that message was used against her as Akai , Conan and Kuroda did.

So I think the person who locked himself in a closed room is Wakasa not Kohji for making the mirror message , and I think the closed room is the bathroom in which the tap was left open .
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
August 16th, 2020, 9:51 am
In Chapter 1056 , Conan said that the victim had used a code but did not know that code would be used against him . Is Conan’s words an allusion to Kohji because he is also the victim ? I don't think so because I'm almost sure this is a hint of Wakasa Rumi , not a hint to Kohji .
Because Wakasa left the mirror message to refer to Karasuma , but that code although Wakasa was the one who made it , it was used against her in two times :

1- Akai and conan initially concluded the message is Asaka Rum not Karasuma , which means they concluded Asaka , which is Wakasa, is the second most dangerous bad individual in BO "RUM" .
2- Kuroda concluded the code refers to Wakasa Rumi not Karasuma , and that is why he went to meet Wakasa in the case of the burning tent .
I mean even though Wakasa was the one who created this message , to refer that Karasuma is the culprit , but that message was used against her as Akai , Conan and Kuroda did.

So I think the person who locked himself in a closed room is Wakasa not Kohji for making the mirror message , and I think the closed room is the bathroom in which the tap was left open .
That's not enough for me to agree. Unless new information is presented that points to Kōji being killed by someone other than Rum, I can't say for sure whether Kōji was behind both messages (shogi piece and mirror) or just one of them (shogi piece). If Kōji was killed by someone other than Rum, then I'd say it's more likely that someone other than Kōji was behind the mirror message (someone like Rumi, as you suggest).
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

To me Kohji is the maker of the mirror message. The reason is the marks left by the scissors on his palm because he clenched them tightly. We assume the scissors are clenched for defending purpose, but it could also be the case for cutting the mirror into pieces.
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