Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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KingWilson

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 1:25 pm

we know that kuroda has high chance of being present at
kouji murder site. yet he didnt tell him details
even though he is in bo undercover for psb.
if he told details, bourbon should have haneda case memory from kuroda not from psb cold case files.
this rules out possibility of him being npa advisor of
bourbon. ( and even if he is npa advisor , more likely he
is bo agent waiting to kill amuro)
so why does he still call him bourbon?
coz he is rum.
Kuroda is not in NPA anymore bc he was transfered to nagano (913) and now to MPD As Superintendent Division 1, also i think it pretty likely that Amuro is giving report to kuroda because kuroda was amuro former superior that why even though kuroda now in MPD he still order bourbon to give report.

Also if u said that kuroda is rum why bother calling amuro, why dont rum just text him, in chapter 1008 and 1011 it shown that rum only communicate with bourbon by text that proves kuroda is not Rum.
vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 1:25 pm

now why not kill him directly.
two reasons:
1) there might be other harmful agents to bo
like shuichi and kudo whose info only bourbon has
who will give it to npa advisor kuroda
2)if he gets killed kuroda cover maybe blown in npa
and he may nor get info about japanese police.
this high post is convenient for rum. so he is waiting to
kill bourbon along with all others who are supposedly
dead but kurida doubts: shuich, shinichi and shiho
conan whose info only bourbon knows.
But in chapter 898, vermouth said to amuro that the BO is trying to get rid of NOC so if Rum know that amuro is NOC but not getting rid of amuro then it will collide with the BO plan to get rid of NOC. Also there no reason for kuroda to keep his spot in NPA because again he was not in NPA anymore.
Last edited by KingWilson on May 25th, 2020, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KingWilson

Posts:
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

andi2ews wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 3:09 pm

i think and hope that RUM is Chikara Katsumata. And i also think Chikara could be Wakita Kanenori
and you?
I think that all the clue so far like in chapter 1027 where wakita want to have eye which can identify traitor is actually talking about amuro and i think amuro havent given any information yet on Rum and probally already lying to Rum about report on kudo shinichi and it probally a part of the plan with yusaku, akai and amuro after black bunny case.

So i agree with you that Rum could be Wakita Kanenori too but i dont think wakita is chikara though because wakita has eye injury and wearing eyepatch but chikara doesnt have eye injury, and i dont think wakita will fake his eye injury by using eyepatch because he work at Irona Sushi, and im pretty sure when wakita is hired the chef must check wakita eye injury first if it real or not so that why wakita was offered only serving customer bc his eye injury is real.

Also when wakita was first introduced in chapter 975,wakita willing to show his eye injury when conan asked what happen to his eye, and if wakita eye injury is fake i dont think he willing to said to conan that he willing to show it.

Also in chapter 1027, wakita also willing to show his eye injury to kogoro when kogoro asked why his eye havent healed yet so if wakita eye injury is fake there no reason for wakita to willing to show it to kogoro.
That why i think it not possible for Chikara to be Wakita in disguise bc chikara doesnt have eye injury at all.
KingWilson

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

Kudo Shinchi wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 6:51 am
The case ends with Koumi reflecting to himself, "Time is money, as the saying goes..." Did he hear this from anyone recently? Kuroda, perhaps?
I think Kuomei saying that phrase is just a coincidence is a possibilty because kuomei like to use a lot of phrase from famous strategist so that phrase might be from a strategist too.

Another possibility too that many people will probally interpret this message as Kuomei knowing Amuro is NOC in BO bc Kuroda told Koumei about it which isnt shown in the manga but offscreen. That why when kuomei see amuro he didnt greet amuro so that wakita isnt suspicious at all. Also i think it pretty likely that amuro, koumei and kuroda has a hunch that wakita is Rum by the end of the case.
So my conclusion, i think the second possibilty is the most likely in my opinion.
vaibhavgupte

Posts:
31

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

andi2ews wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 3:09 pm
KingWilson wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 10:34 am

Also in your opinion Andi, who do you think is Rum though?
I agree with your reasoning too that kuroda is not Rum because Rum would just text amuro and not calling him to tell bourbon to make his report.
i think and hope that RUM is Chikara Katsumata. And i also think Chikara could be Wakita Kanenori
and you?
I beleieve chikara katsuamata is rum
and currently he is hyoue kuroda.
the inspector in wizard of ripples had body like chikara
but eyes of kuroda.
chikara and kuroda voices are also similar
and that inspectors voice actor was one of them.
KingWilson

Posts:
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 11:18 pm
I beleieve chikara katsuamata is rum
and currently he is hyoue kuroda.
the inspector in wizard of ripples had body like chikara
but eyes of kuroda.
chikara and kuroda voices are also similar
and that inspectors voice actor was one of them.
In my opinion, just because there voice are similar or have face that are similar like what you just pointed out doesnt prove there the same person.

Kaito kid he can have the exactly same face as shinichi kudo without disguise, and if we reason that they are the same person because their face are exactly the same or their body shape is same, of course we know it not true and not a good reason imo.

Another example is Okita Soshi he have also the same exactly face as Shinichi kudo of course we not going to say there are the same person because their face or body shape are similar.

Also just because the inspector in wizard of ripples have the same eyes as kuroda doesnt prove he is kuroda, many people in this forum have already pointed out that people like Gin and camel have the similar eyes like kuroda.

Also like many people have said in the past years, Gosho reply to the question if Rum is among Wakita, Kuroda or Rumi in Black Plus SDB 2018 and Gosho said yes, so that should rule out chikara as a rum suspect and like i also have pointed out chikara cant be wakita or kuroda in disguise because chikara doesnt have eye injury at all but both wakita and kuroda eye injury is real.
vaibhavgupte

Posts:
31

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

KingWilson wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 12:31 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 11:18 pm
I beleieve chikara katsuamata is rum
and currently he is hyoue kuroda.
the inspector in wizard of ripples had body like chikara
but eyes of kuroda.
chikara and kuroda voices are also similar
and that inspectors voice actor was one of them.
In my opinion, just because there voice are similar or have face that are similar like what you just pointed out doesnt prove there the same person.

Kaito kid he can have the exactly same face as shinichi kudo without disguise, and if we reason that they are the same person because their face are exactly the same or their body shape is same, of course we know it not true and not a good reason imo.

Another example is Okita Soshi he have also the same exactly face as Shinichi kudo of course we not going to say there are the same person because their face or body shape are similar.

Also just because the inspector in wizard of ripples have the same eyes as kuroda doesnt prove he is kuroda, many people in this forum have already pointed out that people like Gin and camel have the similar eyes like kuroda.

Also like many people have said in the past years, Gosho reply to the question if Rum is among Wakita, Kuroda or Rumi in Black Plus SDB 2018 and Gosho said yes, so that should rule out chikara as a rum suspect and like i also have pointed out chikara cant be wakita or kuroda in disguise because chikara doesnt have eye injury at all but both wakita and kuroda eye injury is real.
what I am saying is that chikara which we see
is just a doppelganger which true chikara set in his place
as he is curently hyoue acc to me.
we dont know whether actual chikara has injury or not.
him being doppelganger coz gosho doesnt care about
chikara or his character development.
all gosho wants public to know is there is a chikara
named shogi player.
and he doesnt want them to forget it by bringing
his daughter mina katsumata in shogi player murder case.
since he has null character development.
current chikara isnt useful to plot.
as he is curently hyoue
and this is just theory .
there isnt much proof at this stage to prove it.
so I might be wrong.
KingWilson

Posts:
24

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 12:32 am
1) in wakita episode there is yaiba hint.
today in yaiba enemy boss advisor makes appearance
in show.
2) his name wakita kanenori is anagram of
tokiwa kanenari which in japanese is time is money
.what rum always states.
these two make wakia biggest red herring
and why most people think wakita is rum
is either of the two.
both are too obvous
For the first point, i dont think it a red herring vaib, here my reasoning, remember when amuro was first introduced without disguise in chapter 793, recall the scene where there a detective name Haruka Sanji who asked amuro to give him "Bourbon On Rocks" this foreshadow actually was a clue that amuro was in fact bourbon. So i think it the same stuff for the yaiba hint.

For the second point, i agree that it could be a red herring from gosho but i think it just a coincidence though so i dont see the second point have much impact to the Rum arc.

So in my opinion, wakasa rumi is still the biggest red herring imo, and if u said kuroda is Rum because wakasa and wakita is red herring then why kuroda bother calling amuro to make the report why dont just text him?
vaibhavgupte

Posts:
31

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

KingWilson wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 2:55 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 12:32 am
1) in wakita episode there is yaiba hint.
today in yaiba enemy boss advisor makes appearance
in show.
2) his name wakita kanenori is anagram of
tokiwa kanenari which in japanese is time is money
.what rum always states.
these two make wakia biggest red herring
and why most people think wakita is rum
is either of the two.
both are too obvous
For the first point, i dont think it a red herring vaib, here my reasoning, remember when amuro was first introduced without disguise in chapter 793, recall the scene where there a detective name Haruka Sanji who asked amuro to give him "Bourbon On Rocks" this foreshadow actually was a clue that amuro was in fact bourbon. So i think it the same stuff for the yaiba hint.

For the second point, i agree that it could be a red herring from gosho but i think it just a coincidence though so i dont see the second point have much impact to the Rum arc.

So in my opinion, wakasa rumi is still the biggest red herring imo, and if u said kuroda is Rum because wakasa and wakita is red herring then why kuroda bother calling amuro to make the report why dont just text him?
remember in bourbon arc , the man calling
bourbon o rocks for amuro was foreshadowing,
but still it wasnt obvious cause similar we had
subaru drinking bourbon. this was foreshadowing
which was red herring.
so foreshadowings can be red herrings.

also if wakita is rum. its almost same as bourbon arc.
I dont think gosho will repeat it.
KingWilson

Posts:
24

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 3:13 am
remember in bourbon arc , the man calling
bourbon o rocks for amuro was foreshadowing,
but still it wasnt obvious cause similar we had
subaru drinking bourbon. this was foreshadowing
which was red herring.
so foreshadowings can be red herrings.

also if wakita is rum. its almost same as bourbon arc.
I dont think gosho will repeat it.
The scene where subaru drinking bourbon was not in chapter 622-624 when his character introduced though, but amuro case was the foreshadow when his character is introduced same as wakita case so that why my reasoning that the wakita yaiba hint is not red herring because it was when wakita was introduced in his first case.

Yeah you got a point vaib, it will meant gosho repeating bourbon arc if wakita is Rum but in my opinion there a high chance gosho will repeat it based on all the clue we got so far.

And my problem with kuroda is RUM there some point :
1. Why Amuro is still alive? Your reasoning vaib i already give a reply that if kuroda letting amuro live so he can have a good chance to destroy amuro and others, it will just collide with BO plan to get rid of NOC.
2. Why Kuroda calling amuro to make a report, so far Rum twice in chapter 1008 and 1011 communicate with bourbon through text only hinting that Rum cannot risk calling amuro directly because amuro will know Rum identity because maybe amuro will recognize Rum voice.
blackmoon

Posts:
176

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by blackmoon »

decided to do a simple list where the 3 RUM suspects made their appearances and a short comment at the end:

Rumi Wakasa appearances:
Old Warehouse of Teitan Elementary School (Manga: 966-968, Anime: 889-890): related crime: past murder

Rumi Wakasa's Neighbor Murder Case (Manga: 978-980, Anime: 896-897): related crime: murder

Burning Tent Murder Case (Manga: 987-989, Anime: 909-910): related crime: murder

Crimson School Trip Case (Manga: 1005, Anime: 941): related crime: murder/shown looking at the APTX victims list

Missing Maria Higashio Case (Manga: 1006-1008, Anime: 941-942): related crime: NONE
"Rumi makes an appearance in this case, asking Haibara about Shinichi and if Haibara has met Shinichi before. Later, a shogi piece that looks like promoted bishop is lying next to her computer, while she reads a blog." source: https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Rumi_Wakasa

Edible Wild Plants Collecting Case (Manga: 1032-1034, Anime: TBD): related crime: murder: "Rumi remembers back to when Kohji said, "With the watchtower bishop, you can be sure of making a good move", while holding up a shogi bishop. Then he says, "So you/they're going to kill me despite that?" She then remembers him dead, with some sort of fluid (blood?) pouring out of his mouth, and she calls him a "foolish person", while pressing down on her right eye and crouching down on the ground."

Trapped at Hatoyama Farm (Manga: 1051-1054, Anime: TBD: related crime: murder: Rumi knocked Bourbon out cold without him noticing the assault

------------------------------------
Kanenori Wakita appearances:

Interchanged Betting Ticket Case (Manga: 975-977, Anime: 894-895): related crime: theft

Rumi Wakasa's Neighbor Murder Case (Manga: 980, Anime: 896-897) : related crime: murder
"He is seen reading a Nichiuri newspaper, but it's not showed what article he is reading. He comments that 'this one is quick-witted'."

Crimson School Trip Case (Manga: 1005, Anime: 941): related crime: murder
"After the case is solved, Wakita is seen reading an article that mentions Shinichi's involvment in the case."

Missing Maria Higashio Case (Manga: 1008, Anime: 941-942): related crime: NONE
"He is seen talking to Professor Agasa, claiming that he came to deliver a sushi in his neighborhood, but couldn't due to a mass of paparazzi surrounding Shinichi's house. After he finished his conversation, he is seen reading an article in his phone, where the blogger who claimed that she saw Shinichi was nothing but an illusion, calming down the uproar about Shinichi." source: https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wik ... ori_Wakita

Nagano Snowy Mountains Case (Manga: 1027-1031, Anime: TBA): related crime: murder
And this is where the "Time is money" is mentioned again in Chinese proverb.

-------------------------------------
Hyoue Kuroda appearances:
Kawanakajima Murder Case (Manga: 913-917, Anime: 810-812): related crime: murder
". Yui Uehara said that he had been in a coma for ten years after an accident and had pitch black hair before that. Kansuke jokely says that with a face like that he looked like a boss of some organization."

A Blog That Causes a Death (Manga: 918-920, Anime: 814-815): related crime: murder "He asked Conan to take care of him. Haibara got scared when Kuroda leaned in closer."

A Secret of the Big Couple (Manga: 925-927, Anime: 822-823): related crime: murder "Haibara said to Conan that she hadn't felt the Black Organization Aura from Kuroda. She had only gripped his shoulder because his face and expression were really scary. In fact, she implied Kuroda couldn't be Rum, as he saw her and should have noticed she resembles Shiho Miyano. If this had happened, things would have gone out of control and Rum would've broken into Agasa's house and this didn't happen."

Rumi Wakasa's Neighbor Murder Case (Manga: 980, Anime: 896-897): related crime: murder "Kuroda reads on his phone an article about Rumi Wakasa catching a killer and comments that it was well done."

Burning Tent Murder Case (Manga: 987-989, Anime: 909-910): related crime: murder
"He catches Rumi spaced out staring in his direction and asks her if they should call the police. As Yuminaga's team investigates, Rumi accuses Kuroda of spying on someone."

Crimson School Trip Case (Manga: 1005, Anime: 941): related crime: murder "Kuroda, along with Wakita, is seen reading something on his phone, that mentions Shinichi's involvement in the case."

Missing Maria Higashio Case (Manga: 1008, Anime: 941-942): related crime: NONE
"He is seen reading the article where the blogger who claimed that she saw Shinichi wrote he was nothing but an illusion, with a smirk on his face."

Policewomen Serial Murder Case (Manga: 1014-1017, Anime: 972-974): related crime: murder "Kuroda is seen talking with Amuro on the phone, who questions him about his meeting with the Kudos, calling him by his codename "Bourbon"."

Nagano Snowy Mountains Case (Manga: 1030, Anime: TBA): related crime: murder "Kuroda calls Kansuke's phone and want to talk to Morofushi privately."

source: https://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Hyoue_Kuroda

So... for both Wakita and Kuroda their appearances ended at the Snowy mountains case and both made their appearances in the case. And based on what happened both of them seem to be somewhat close and related to Amuro/Bourbon. From previous cases, Haibara thought Kuroda can't be RUM, and Rumi suspected Kuroda was spying on her. As for Rumi, she basically knocked Amuro/Bourbon in the latest appearance and seem to be hiding that shogi piece related to Kohji. It was presented in a way that Rumi seem to be related to Kohji's death. So... in the RUM arc, there was a blogger who claimed that she saw Shinichi then later wrote he was nothing but an illusion...

Gosh, i still can't make up my mind about who maybe RUM among the 3 suspects. ;D
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
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KingWilson

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

blackmoon wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 6:45 am
So... for both Wakita and Kuroda their appearances ended at the Snowy mountains case and both made their appearances in the case. And based on what happened both of them seem to be somewhat close and related to Amuro/Bourbon. From previous cases, Haibara thought Kuroda can't be RUM, and Rumi suspected Kuroda was spying on her. As for Rumi, she basically knocked Amuro/Bourbon in the latest appearance and seem to be hiding that shogi piece related to Kohji. It was presented in a way that Rumi seem to be related to Kohji's death. So... in the RUM arc, there was a blogger who claimed that she saw Shinichi then later wrote he was nothing but an illusion...
Im hoping the next case after hatoyama farm have Kuroda and Wakita in it, and yes i agree with you BlackMoon it seems that both Kuroda and Wakita is close and related to Bourbon.

Also about who might be RUM, im hoping it is Kuroda but what i think is Wakita.
vaibhavgupte

Posts:
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

In gosho talk day 2017 . one important thing I noticed.
gosho was asked what is gin's rank in bo.
he said its within top 10.
therefore the info in detective conan world. com
that gin is number 3 of bo is false.
he may be. but its not mentioned anywhere.
and gosho not mentioning means he wants that ambiguity.
therefore there is great chance that all our 3 suspects maybe bo members higher than gin.
and if gosho said he is not even in top 5 could mean rum
is 4th suspect but other three are also bo.
that would make gin number 6.
but still gin can be top 10 top 5 or top 3 .
since it can be anything in top 10.
but since gosho isnt specifying gin is number 3 .
there is good chance that he is not number 3 .

if gin is number 3 .I cant see a reason to hide the fact.
making it highly probable he is not number 3
and atleast one of 3 rum suspects currently
excluding rum himself is higher than gin.
and good chance that all three are bo.

and kuroda , a top police officer being bo sounds
death bells to me.
KingWilson

Posts:
24

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by KingWilson »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 11:33 am
and kuroda , a top police officer being bo sounds
death bells to me.
Question for you vaib, if kuroda is RUM, why he still trust Amuro to report about Shinichi Kudo bc Kuroda knew that Amuro is NOC, so Kuroda shouldnt entrust that important task to Amuro.
vaibhavgupte

Posts:
31

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

KingWilson wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 4:11 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 11:33 am
and kuroda , a top police officer being bo sounds
death bells to me.
Question for you vaib, if kuroda is RUM, why he still trust Amuro to report about Shinichi Kudo bc Kuroda knew that Amuro is NOC, so Kuroda shouldnt entrust that important task to Amuro.
KingWilson wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 4:11 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
June 6th, 2020, 11:33 am
and kuroda , a top police officer being bo sounds
death bells to me.
Question for you vaib, if kuroda is RUM, why he still trust Amuro to report about Shinichi Kudo bc Kuroda knew that Amuro is NOC, so Kuroda shouldnt entrust that important task to Amuro.
see if you assume kuroda is rum ,
you now know that he contacts amuro by two methods:
message and phone.
this two methods should be from two different identities.
the messaging is by rum and
the phone call is by npa/psb or ex npa/psb.
(basically calling as a higher police confidante).
you remember in that scarlet showdown case
how amuro got information from camel.
he asked infornation to fbi agent camel by teasing him
. he didnt give. but he was charged up and
ended up giving info to confidante jodie who ended up
being vermouth. amuro manipulated camel.
this is exactly what I expect rum to do with amuro if he
knows amuro is noc.
rum will ask info to amuro ( similar to amuro asking camel)
and then charge him up by saying time is money.
and then charged amuro will end up giving info to his
senior confidante kuroda ( his other identity) via phone.
( similar to camel telling info to jodie disguised as vermouth)
and amuro describing rum as impatient is just amuro's
perception of rum coz he always uses phrase
time is money.
actually rum is patient and is waiting for amuro to fall
into his trap so that he can get info from amuro
about akai , shinichi , conan , etc. and other enemy of bo
info which amuro has.

in fact I believe kuroda has already got some info
from amuro already in this manner.
how he knows conan is brain behind kogoro.
who told him ? amuro.
but amuro not told him as rum
( he wont put childs life in danger)
amuro told it actually to his senior confidante in police
kuroda.
and chronology is like this when soul detective murder
case occured , bo came to know kogoro is involved
kuroda knowing conan is real sleeping kogoro.
he called his assistant rumi wakasa ( who is asaka
, loyal bo member) to keep an eye on conan.
coz otherwise why would she be interested in conan
in first place.
coz wakasa definitely doesnt know conan is shinichi.
there is nothing else interesting about conan
to go to teitan school in first place.

and last but not least kuroda has two cell phones
many in this forum have pointed this out.
this confirms his two identities
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

In contrast with the chikara katsumatta deal, this theory looks more convincing...
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