Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 19th, 2017, 1:15 am

kentasaiba wrote:In Conan, things like that can repeat and the age also wouldnt be a problem, if Kohji didnt died when taking the APTX, but was just rejuvenated for maybe 10 years.


That's his dead body on the last panel of Page 2—as far as I'm concerned, with that one panel, any "Koji's alive" theories (which I already found remarkably unlikely) are out the window.
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on February 19th, 2017, 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » February 19th, 2017, 3:33 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
kentasaiba wrote:In Conan, things like that can repeat and the age also wouldnt be a problem, if Kohji didnt died when taking the APTX, but was just rejuvenated for maybe 10 years.


That's his dead body on the last panel of Page 2—as far as I'm concerned, with that one panel, any "Koji's alive" theories (which I found already remarkably unlikely) are out the window.


I agree, the police confirmed him dead, and mind it he was a famous personality, its hard for them to do something like that, vermouth being an exception.
And why wait 17 years for the sake of it...
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 20th, 2017, 9:32 am

Rum Arc Discussion Series: Iori Muga

Image

Spoiler:
Iori Muga is the latest recurring character that was introduced. There are many that has dismissed him as a potential Rum suspect, so I'm gonna go through everything worth noting in his introduction case(File 981-983).


Iori's plot involvement

As we know, at the end of Iori's introduction case(File 983), we found out that he was Momiji's butler, who was spying on Heiji during the case. The moment he was revealed to be connected to Momiji, a romance-subplot-related upcoming-movie guest, a majority(me included) almost immediately disqualified him as a Rum candidate, in the first few seconds. Many seems to think that Momiji's story will end, or that the love drama will conclude, in the movie, due to the movie focusing on Heiji and Kazuha's romance and Momiji being a love rival, as well as due to the cover art(drawn by Gosho) where Momiji is crying(as if a heart-break took place). There are however two important points that contradicts this notion.

The first point is the fact that both Momiji and Iori are canon characters. This means that they started as manga characters and will without a doubt end as manga characters. Judging by Gosho's history with the movies and how he treats the canon relative to the movie, the manga is not dependent on the movies. This ultimately means that Momiji's and Iori's story will be dealt with within the manga and not conclude in the movies.

The second point is the anime schedule, relative to the movie. The anime and the movies always goes hand in hand, in which the anime schedule is always adjusted to the movie premiere. Recently, it has involved adding special side-episodes that are supposed to tie the movies with the anime. Since the anime has no chance of catching up to Iori's and Momiji's latest appearances(File 983) before the movie premiere, there's no chance for the movie to smoothly connect with their anime appearances(in which Momiji is still an active love rival) so that it can conclude her story in the movie. This means that the movie will not impact Momiji's love story and her appearance will likely just serve as fanservice and teaser for her manga appearances.

This means that Gosho's cover art was just another red-herring(like the M18 cover with Akai being targeted) to generate hype for the movie, and this also means that Iori has the potential to be involved in the main plot like any other new character in the Rum arc.


Iori's identity

So far, Iori has only appeared in one case, but in this case(File 981-983) there was a lot of indications that makes him a valid Rum suspect. I'll go through all the individual descriptions of Rum.

Rum is said to be a "strong man".
Iori hasn't shown any physical feats that can portray him as a strong man, however, Gosho gave us an important hint that suggest that Iori has certain physical capabilities. During his first intro chapter(File 981), he intervened in Heiji's and Amuro's conversation. That moment, Iori took Heiji and Conan off-guard, and they reacted by thinking that they couldn't sense his presence.

Image

Considering that Iori revealed his presence when he intervened in the conversation, it's safe to assume that he didn't intend to keep himself hidden. This means that he sneaked up on them unintentionally, meaning that it's a habit. The habit of concealing oneself is a very common trait by infiltrators, investigators, and assassins. This indicates that Iori is at least physically trained in concealing himself, which usually follows with other physical capabillities that could portray him as "strong"(depending on his original occupation).

During the second chapter of his intro(File 982), we find out that he was standing in front of the exit after the blackout ended. Amuro suspected that Iori was trying to flee, but Iori excused it as him trying to stop anyone that would attempt to flee, after hearing a scream.

Image

Iori'a excuse is very questionable. Based on his excuse, it means that his first instinct was that the scream was a murder. This is a very suspicious preconception, since it would imply that Iori is used to hearing screams during murders. For him to react that fast after hearing one scream, it would imply that his reaction, of going to the exit, was also a habit. This habit is also very suspicious, because it's commonly associated with someone who's used to being present during crimes. The most common people that are involved in the heat of a crime are usually the criminals themselves. Following this line of thought, it would mean that his habit could be something that stems from him being an assassin. A common assassination strategy is usually to blind the target with darkness, sneak up on them and finish them off, and then immediately hurry to the exit before the lights turn on. This could be why Iori reacted to the scream by trying to flee(because he's used to fleeing the moment he hears screams that he instigated). If he's an assassin, then it would naturally come with physical capabilities that are meant to take down your target(just like how Rum was capable of physically taking down Kohji, before drugging him), which coincides with the "strong" description of Rum.

Rum is said to be an "effeminate man".
At the end of Iori's intro case(File 983), we get a glimpse at Iori's true appearance(without a hat) and he's revealed to have long curly hair. This instantly fits with Rum's description about a feminine appearance.

Image

Rum is said to be an "old man".
There's another hidden information about Iori that Gosho was hinting at. The first thing Iori did during his intro(File 981) is that he intervened with Amuro's and heiji's conversation. The historical references he was mentioning, connected to the "unlucky day friday 13th", all originated from Europe. They were specific instances in European history that are not common knowledge in Japan. This was alluding to Iori having a European influence. If we however connect this indication with a very clear appearance that Iori has, we can come to the conclusion that Iori is most likely half-European.

The appearance I'm referring to is his eyebrows. Iori's eyebrows are light-coloured/blond. That seems to suggest that his natural hair colour is actually light/blond.

Image

Since he showed knowledge of a Japanese superstition(Butsumetsu, File 981), and since no one has commented on him having a foreign look, Iori is most likely Japanese, and based on his natural hair colour and knowledge of Europe, he's most likely half-european(probably British). This would make him a young light/blond-haired Japanese, which is very rare and would attract a lot of attention when seen in public.

Image

Iori most likely dyed his hair black to blend in with other Japanese people. With his natural appearance however, it's not hard to believe that he could be described as an old man, if seen from afar, because only old men, that are japanese, usually have light-colored hair.

Rum has a prosthetic eye.
During Iori's intro case, we didn't get many opportunities to observe his movement and behavior that would suggest that he can't see with one eye. However, in File 988, Rumi, who seemingly has two functioning eyes, got suspected of having one disfunctional eye(the right eye). This was well crafted by Gosho, since he made sure that most of Rumi's head movement were consistent so that it wouldn't reveal that she has two functioning eyes. In my Rumi discussion, the evidence that I used to prove that she has two functioning eyes was that she turned both sides to look back without turning her body. Her left side is proven to work, since almost all her movement when looking back is to the left side. Her right side however was only one instance in File 968, when she was arguably looking at Genta's direction.

Image

It's very hard to tell if her pupils are on the right(because she picked up on the robbers' presence behind them, like Haibara), or if she's really looking at Genta. If it's not the latter(which I first assumed it was), then her being one-eyed isn't necessarily ruled out, meaning that Haibara's suspicion in File 988 isn't a completely unreasonable outcome. The point of this Rumi topic however is the fact that both of Rumi's eyes have been shown to move around, depending on the direction she is looking, and yet, Gosho is showing that she's valid enough to be suspected as someone with an artificial eye(which shouldn't be able to move). This could possibly mean that Gosho is disregarding the eye movement of characters with unnoticeable prosthetic eyes for plot conveniences(similarly to Conan's voice-changing bowtie not being noticed as the sound from a speaker). If that's the case, then Iori, who has shown to have moving eyes(like when he looked at the door to the side or at the phone below, File 982), might still have a prosthetic eye.

Image

If he has a prosthetic eye, then it's probably his left eye. My reasoning for that is based on Gosho's artistic choices when he creates a reflection effect on Rumi's glasses. All those times when the reflection covered one eye, it was always the right eye, which is being suspected to be disfunctional(File 968/979/980/988).

Image

Simarly to this, the two instances in Iori's introduction case, both reflections covered the left eye(File 981/982).

Image

If Iori is Rum, isn't he too young for the 17-year-old case?
By the time of the Kohji case, Iori was at least 13 years old(since his "Iori identity" is 30). That was the age that Shiho became a full-fledged high-ranked scientist of the Black Organization, due to her being an academic prodigy. Similarly to that, Rum could've also been a prodigy, that showed so much potential in an early age and was able to carry out assassinations. Teenagers mature at different rates, so it's not impossible that he had an acceptable build and a lot of techniques to take down his opponents before finishing them off(in this case, with poison).
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.

Iori's overall portrayal of being "Watson", in his introduction case, could be Gosho's foreshadowing to Iori's overall role in the story. Since the boss is supposed to be a parallell to "Holmes", then Rum would equate to "Watson". The boss is most likely a sherlockian, due to him using "Sherlock Holmes" references to the experimental drug(Apotoxin [4869=Shi-Ha-Ro-Ku=Sherlock], and "incomplete detective"[APTX database password: "Shelling Ford"]), so Rum being "Watson" to the boss isn't an unreasonable assumption. Also, since friday 13th(Iori's intro day) involved major main plot development before(Akai's "death"), it's not weird that Gosho would intentionally use that day as a little nod to the readers that Iori's introduction is just as important.


Iori's goal

If Iori is Rum, then the only possible reason to why he would be Momiji's butler is her family, the Ooka, or someone the Ooka family are close to. So far, we don't have enough information to go beyond that, but if that's the case, then his butler behavior is definitely an act, in order to achieve something bigger.


Summary:
- Movie 21 will not resolve Momiji's and Iori's current subplot.
- Iori is a valid Rum suspect, and could in fact be Rum.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on February 25th, 2017, 6:22 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » February 20th, 2017, 12:54 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Rum Arc Discussion Series: Iori Muga

Image

Spoiler:
Iori Muga is the latest recurring character that was introduced. There are many that has dismissed him as a potential Rum suspect, so I'm gonna go through everything worth noting in his introduction case(File 981-983).


Iori's plot involvement

As we know, at the end of Iori's introduction case(File 983), we found out that he was Momiji's butler, who was spying on Heiji during the case. The moment he was revealed to be connected to Momiji, a romance-subplot-related upcoming-movie guest, a majority(me included) almost immediately disqualified him as a Rum candidate, in the first few seconds. Many seems to think that Momiji's story will end, or that the love drama will conclude, in the movie, due to the movie focusing on Heiji and Kazuha's romance and Momiji being a love rival, as well as due to the cover art(drawn by Gosho) where Momiji is crying(as if a heart-break took place). There are however two important points that contradicts this notion.

The first point is the fact that both Momiji and Iori are canon characters. This means that they started as manga characters and will without a doubt end as manga characters. Judging by Gosho's history with the movies and how he treats the canon relative to the movie, the manga is not dependent on the movies. This ultimately means that Momiji's and Iori's story will be dealt with within the manga and not conclude in the movies.

The second point is the anime schedule, relative to the movie. The anime and the movies always goes hand in hand, in which the anime schedule is always adjusted to the movie premiere. Recently, it has involved adding special side-episodes that are supposed to tie the movies with the anime. Since the anime has no chance of catching up to Iori's and Momiji's latest appearances(File 983) before the movie premiere, there's no chance for the movie to smoothly connect with their anime appearances(in which Momiji is still an active love rival) so that it can conclude her story in the movie. This means that the movie will not impact Momiji's love story and her appearance will likely just serve as fanservice and teaser for her manga appearances.

This means that Gosho's cover art was just another red-herring(like the M18 cover with Akai being targeted) to generate hype for the movie, and this also means that Iori has the potential to be involved in the main plot like any other new character in the Rum arc.


Iori's identity

So far, Iori has only appeared in one case, but in this case(File 981-983) there was a lot of indications that makes him a valid Rum suspect. I'll go through all the individual descriptions of Rum.

Rum is said to be a "strong man".
Iori hasn't shown any physical feats that can portray him as a strong man, however, Gosho gave us an important hint that suggest that Iori has certain physical capabilities. During his first intro chapter(File 981), he intervened in Heiji's and Amuro's conversation. That moment, Iori took Heiji and Conan off-guard, and they reacted by thinking that they couldn't sense his presence.

Image

Considering that Iori revealed his presence when he intervened in the conversation, it's safe to assume that he didn't intend to keep himself hidden. This means that he sneaked up on them unintentionally, meaning that it's a habit. The habit of concealing oneself is a very common trait by infiltrators, investigators, and assassins. This indicates that Iori is at least physically trained in concealing himself, which usually follows with other physical capabillities that could portray him as "strong"(depending on his original occupation).

During the second chapter of his intro(File 982), we find out that he was standing in front of the exit after the blackout ended. Amuro suspected that Iori was trying to flee, but Iori excused it as him trying to stop anyone that would attempt to flee, after hearing a scream.

Image

Iori'a excuse is very questionable. Based on his excuse, it means that his first instinct was that the scream was a murder. This is a very suspicious preconception, since it would imply that Iori is used to hearing screams during murders. For him to react that fast after hearing one scream, it would imply that his reaction, of going to the exit, was also a habit. This habit is also very suspicious, because it's commonly associated with someone who's used to being present during crimes. The most common people that are involved in the heat of a crime are usually the criminals themselves. Following this line of thought, it would mean that his habit could be something that stems from him being an assassin. A common assassination strategy is usually to blind the target with darkness, sneak up on them and finish them off, and then immediately hurry to the exit before the lights turn on. This could be why Iori reacted to the scream by trying to flee(because he's used to fleeing the moment he hears screams that he instigated). If he's an assassin, then it would naturally come with physical capabilities that are meant to take down your target(just like how Rum was capable of physically taking down Kohji, before drugging him), which coincides with the "strong" description of Rum.

Rum is said to be an "effeminate man".
At the end of Iori's intro case(File 983), we get a glimpse at Iori's true appearance(without a hat) and he's revealed to have long curly hair. This instantly fits with Rum's description about a feminine appearance.

Image

Rum is said to be an "old man".
There's another hidden information about Iori that Gosho was hinting at. The first thing Iori did during his intro(File 981) is that he intervened with Amuro's and heiji's conversation. The historical references he was mentioning, connected to the "unlucky day friday 13th", all originated from Europe. They were specific instances in European history that are not common knowledge in Japan. This was alluding to Iori having a European influence. If we however connect this indication with a very clear appearance that Iori has, we can come to the conclusion that Iori most likely is half-European.

The appearance I'm referring to is his eyebrows. Iori's eyebrows are light-coloured/blond. That seems to suggest that his natural hair colour is actually light/blond.

Image

Since he showed knowledge of a Japanese superstition(Butsumetsu, File 981), and since no one has commented on him having a foreign look, Iori is most likely Japanese, and based on his natural colour and knowledge of Europe, he's most likely half-european(probably British). This would make him a young light/blond-haired Japanese, which is very rare and would attract a lot of attention when seen in public.

Image

Iori most likely dyed his hair black to blend in with other Japanese people. With his natural appearance however, it's not hard to believe that he could be described as an old man, if seen from afar, because only old men, that are japanese, usually have light-colored hair.

Rum has a prosthetic eye.
During Iori's intro case, we didn't get many opportunities to observe his movement and behavior that would suggest that he can't see with one eye. However, in File 988, Rumi, who seemingly has two functioning eyes, got suspected of having one disfunctional eye(the right eye). This was well crafted by Gosho, since he made sure that most of Rumi's head movement were consistent so that it wouldn't reveal that she has two functioning eyes. In my Rumi discussion, the evidence that I used to prove that she has two functioning eyes was that she turned both sides to look back without turning her body. Her left side is proven to work, since almost all her movement when looking back is to the left side. Her right side however was only one instance in File 968, when she was arguably looking at Genta's direction.

Image

It's very hard to tell if her pupils are on the right(because she picked up on the robbers' presence behind them, like Haibara), or if she's really looking at Genta. If it's not the latter(which I first assumed it was), then her being one-eyed isn't necessarily ruled out, meaning that Haibara's(and possibly Conan's) suspicion in File 988 isn't a completely unreasonable outcome. The point of this Rumi topic however is the fact that both of Rumi's eyes have been shown to move around, depending on the direction she is looking, and yet, Gosho is showing that she's valid enough to be suspected as someone with an artificial eye(which shouldn't be able to move). This could possibly mean that Gosho is disregarding the eye movement of characters with unnoticeable prosthetic eyes for plot conveniences(similarly to Conan's voice-changing bowtie not being noticed as the sound from a speaker). If that's the case, then Iori, who has shown to have moving eyes(like when he looked at the door to the side or at the phone below, File 982), might still have a prosthetic eye.

Image

If he has a prosthetic eye, then it's probably his left eye. My reasoning for that is based on Gosho's artistic choices when he creates a reflection effect on Rumi's glasses. All those time when the reflection covered one eye, it was always the right eye, which is being suspected to be disfunctional(File 968/979/980/988).

Image

Simarly to this, the two instances in Iori's introduction case, both reflections covered the left eye(File 981/982).

Image

If Iori is Rum, isn't he too young for the 17-year-old case?
By the time of the Kohji case, Iori was at least 13 years old(since his "Iori identity" is 30). That was the age that Shiho became a full-fledged high-ranked scientist of the Black Organization, due to her being an academic prodigy. Similarly to that, Rum could've also been prodigy, that showed so much potential in an early age and was able to carry out assassinations. Teenagers mature at different rates, so it's not impossible that he had an acceptable build and a lot of techniques to take down his opponents before finishing them off(in this case, with poison).
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.

Iori's overall portrayal of being "Watson", in his introduction case, could be Gosho's foreshadowing to Iori's overall role in the story. Since the boss is supposed to be a parallell to "Holmes", then Rum would equate to "Watson". The boss is most likely a sherlockian, due to him using "Sherlock Holmes" references to the experimental drug(Apotoxin [4869=Shi-Ha-Ro-Ku=Sherlock], and "incomplete detective"[APTX database password: "Shelling Ford"]), so Rum being "Watson" to the boss isn't an unreasonable assumption. Also, since friday 13th(Iori's intro day) involved major main plot development before(Akai's "death"), it's not weird that Gosho would intentionally use that day as a little nod to the readers that Iori's introduction is just as important.


Iori's goal

If Iori is Rum, then the only possible reason to why he would be Momiji's butler is her family, the Ooka, or someone the Ooka family are close to. So far, we don't have enough information to go beyond that, but if that's the case, then his butler behavior is definitely an act, in order to achieve something bigger.


Summary:
- Movie 21 will not resolve Momiji's and Iori's current subplot.
- Iori is a valid Rum suspect, and could in fact be Rum.


This is spectacular man. You keep knocking it out the park. We are almost at the 1000 file and although that is not a guarantee we get the reveal simply because of the significance of the number...I think it would be too late now to introduce a new character that is indeed Rum

I also agree him and Wakita must be partners in BO also but i'm waiting to see if we have a moment of Wakita being in Haibara's presence to see how she reacts. If she gets the BO sense I can see Gosho using that to trick some people and have for a brief period people think that is Rum. Only to find out he is another BO member but not Rum.

Do you think Iori though is just as skilled as Gin is? It is hard to picture so which makes you understand Wakita for feeling as if he is too weak? And Gin is a straight up bad ass with all his skills and abilities. Hard to imagine someone else being above him. A young prodigy seems possible i guess.

This goes back to the boss though and us being told the series originally was not planned to last this long and it makes me wonder who the Boss could possibly be.

By the way I wanna see us also have a prominent female BO member that is not on the fence like Vermouth and that is on one side like Gin is..>I mean besides Chianti.
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Posts: 322

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » February 20th, 2017, 1:11 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Rum Arc Discussion Series: Iori Muga

Image

Spoiler:
Iori Muga is the latest recurring character that was introduced. There are many that has dismissed him as a potential Rum suspect, so I'm gonna go through everything worth noting in his introduction case(File 981-983).


Iori's plot involvement

As we know, at the end of Iori's introduction case(File 983), we found out that he was Momiji's butler, who was spying on Heiji during the case. The moment he was revealed to be connected to Momiji, a romance-subplot-related upcoming-movie guest, a majority(me included) almost immediately disqualified him as a Rum candidate, in the first few seconds. Many seems to think that Momiji's story will end, or that the love drama will conclude, in the movie, due to the movie focusing on Heiji and Kazuha's romance and Momiji being a love rival, as well as due to the cover art(drawn by Gosho) where Momiji is crying(as if a heart-break took place). There are however two important points that contradicts this notion.

The first point is the fact that both Momiji and Iori are canon characters. This means that they started as manga characters and will without a doubt end as manga characters. Judging by Gosho's history with the movies and how he treats the canon relative to the movie, the manga is not dependent on the movies. This ultimately means that Momiji's and Iori's story will be dealt with within the manga and not conclude in the movies.

The second point is the anime schedule, relative to the movie. The anime and the movies always goes hand in hand, in which the anime schedule is always adjusted to the movie premiere. Recently, it has involved adding special side-episodes that are supposed to tie the movies with the anime. Since the anime has no chance of catching up to Iori's and Momiji's latest appearances(File 983) before the movie premiere, there's no chance for the movie to smoothly connect with their anime appearances(in which Momiji is still an active love rival) so that it can conclude her story in the movie. This means that the movie will not impact Momiji's love story and her appearance will likely just serve as fanservice and teaser for her manga appearances.

This means that Gosho's cover art was just another red-herring(like the M18 cover with Akai being targeted) to generate hype for the movie, and this also means that Iori has the potential to be involved in the main plot like any other new character in the Rum arc.


Iori's identity

So far, Iori has only appeared in one case, but in this case(File 981-983) there was a lot of indications that makes him a valid Rum suspect. I'll go through all the individual descriptions of Rum.

Rum is said to be a "strong man".
Iori hasn't shown any physical feats that can portray him as a strong man, however, Gosho gave us an important hint that suggest that Iori has certain physical capabilities. During his first intro chapter(File 981), he intervened in Heiji's and Amuro's conversation. That moment, Iori took Heiji and Conan off-guard, and they reacted by thinking that they couldn't sense his presence.

Image

Considering that Iori revealed his presence when he intervened in the conversation, it's safe to assume that he didn't intend to keep himself hidden. This means that he sneaked up on them unintentionally, meaning that it's a habit. The habit of concealing oneself is a very common trait by infiltrators, investigators, and assassins. This indicates that Iori is at least physically trained in concealing himself, which usually follows with other physical capabillities that could portray him as "strong"(depending on his original occupation).

During the second chapter of his intro(File 982), we find out that he was standing in front of the exit after the blackout ended. Amuro suspected that Iori was trying to flee, but Iori excused it as him trying to stop anyone that would attempt to flee, after hearing a scream.

Image

Iori'a excuse is very questionable. Based on his excuse, it means that his first instinct was that the scream was a murder. This is a very suspicious preconception, since it would imply that Iori is used to hearing screams during murders. For him to react that fast after hearing one scream, it would imply that his reaction, of going to the exit, was also a habit. This habit is also very suspicious, because it's commonly associated with someone who's used to being present during crimes. The most common people that are involved in the heat of a crime are usually the criminals themselves. Following this line of thought, it would mean that his habit could be something that stems from him being an assassin. A common assassination strategy is usually to blind the target with darkness, sneak up on them and finish them off, and then immediately hurry to the exit before the lights turn on. This could be why Iori reacted to the scream by trying to flee(because he's used to fleeing the moment he hears screams that he instigated). If he's an assassin, then it would naturally come with physical capabilities that are meant to take down your target(just like how Rum was capable of physically taking down Kohji, before drugging him), which coincides with the "strong" description of Rum.

Rum is said to be an "effeminate man".
At the end of Iori's intro case(File 983), we get a glimpse at Iori's true appearance(without a hat) and he's revealed to have long curly hair. This instantly fits with Rum's description about a feminine appearance.

Image

Rum is said to be an "old man".
There's another hidden information about Iori that Gosho was hinting at. The first thing Iori did during his intro(File 981) is that he intervened with Amuro's and heiji's conversation. The historical references he was mentioning, connected to the "unlucky day friday 13th", all originated from Europe. They were specific instances in European history that are not common knowledge in Japan. This was alluding to Iori having a European influence. If we however connect this indication with a very clear appearance that Iori has, we can come to the conclusion that Iori most likely is half-European.

The appearance I'm referring to is his eyebrows. Iori's eyebrows are light-coloured/blond. That seems to suggest that his natural hair colour is actually light/blond.

Image

Since he showed knowledge of a Japanese superstition(Butsumetsu, File 981), and since no one has commented on him having a foreign look, Iori is most likely Japanese, and based on his natural colour and knowledge of Europe, he's most likely half-european(probably British). This would make him a young light/blond-haired Japanese, which is very rare and would attract a lot of attention when seen in public.

Image

Iori most likely dyed his hair black to blend in with other Japanese people. With his natural appearance however, it's not hard to believe that he could be described as an old man, if seen from afar, because only old men, that are japanese, usually have light-colored hair.

Rum has a prosthetic eye.
During Iori's intro case, we didn't get many opportunities to observe his movement and behavior that would suggest that he can't see with one eye. However, in File 988, Rumi, who seemingly has two functioning eyes, got suspected of having one disfunctional eye(the right eye). This was well crafted by Gosho, since he made sure that most of Rumi's head movement were consistent so that it wouldn't reveal that she has two functioning eyes. In my Rumi discussion, the evidence that I used to prove that she has two functioning eyes was that she turned both sides to look back without turning her body. Her left side is proven to work, since almost all her movement when looking back is to the left side. Her right side however was only one instance in File 968, when she was arguably looking at Genta's direction.

Image

It's very hard to tell if her pupils are on the right(because she picked up on the robbers' presence behind them, like Haibara), or if she's really looking at Genta. If it's not the latter(which I first assumed it was), then her being one-eyed isn't necessarily ruled out, meaning that Haibara's(and possibly Conan's) suspicion in File 988 isn't a completely unreasonable outcome. The point of this Rumi topic however is the fact that both of Rumi's eyes have been shown to move around, depending on the direction she is looking, and yet, Gosho is showing that she's valid enough to be suspected as someone with an artificial eye(which shouldn't be able to move). This could possibly mean that Gosho is disregarding the eye movement of characters with unnoticeable prosthetic eyes for plot conveniences(similarly to Conan's voice-changing bowtie not being noticed as the sound from a speaker). If that's the case, then Iori, who has shown to have moving eyes(like when he looked at the door to the side or at the phone below, File 982), might still have a prosthetic eye.

Image

If he has a prosthetic eye, then it's probably his left eye. My reasoning for that is based on Gosho's artistic choices when he creates a reflection effect on Rumi's glasses. All those time when the reflection covered one eye, it was always the right eye, which is being suspected to be disfunctional(File 968/979/980/988).

Image

Simarly to this, the two instances in Iori's introduction case, both reflections covered the left eye(File 981/982).

Image

If Iori is Rum, isn't he too young for the 17-year-old case?
By the time of the Kohji case, Iori was at least 13 years old(since his "Iori identity" is 30). That was the age that Shiho became a full-fledged high-ranked scientist of the Black Organization, due to her being an academic prodigy. Similarly to that, Rum could've also been prodigy, that showed so much potential in an early age and was able to carry out assassinations. Teenagers mature at different rates, so it's not impossible that he had an acceptable build and a lot of techniques to take down his opponents before finishing them off(in this case, with poison).
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.

Iori's overall portrayal of being "Watson", in his introduction case, could be Gosho's foreshadowing to Iori's overall role in the story. Since the boss is supposed to be a parallell to "Holmes", then Rum would equate to "Watson". The boss is most likely a sherlockian, due to him using "Sherlock Holmes" references to the experimental drug(Apotoxin [4869=Shi-Ha-Ro-Ku=Sherlock], and "incomplete detective"[APTX database password: "Shelling Ford"]), so Rum being "Watson" to the boss isn't an unreasonable assumption. Also, since friday 13th(Iori's intro day) involved major main plot development before(Akai's "death"), it's not weird that Gosho would intentionally use that day as a little nod to the readers that Iori's introduction is just as important.


Iori's goal

If Iori is Rum, then the only possible reason to why he would be Momiji's butler is her family, the Ooka, or someone the Ooka family are close to. So far, we don't have enough information to go beyond that, but if that's the case, then his butler behavior is definitely an act, in order to achieve something bigger.


Summary:
- Movie 21 will not resolve Momiji's and Iori's current subplot.
- Iori is a valid Rum suspect, and could in fact be Rum.


Spot on.....!!
My only concern is that the BO has been working for quite a long time at least more than 20-25 years (with respect to akemi's age, maybe more), coming through the ranks is not easy and specially not so for a 13 year old.
Also, I have a feeling that maybe Momiji's father is the Boss, I don't know , I mentioned it before as well, and will say it again, though there is a possibility had Gosho not decided who the boss is, but since his ex-wife knows so i am wrong. No probs!
Again, Gr8 work MeitanteixX

alphajjc wrote:
This is spectacular man. You keep knocking it out the park. We are almost at the 1000 file and although that is not a guarantee we get the reveal simply because of the significance of the number...I think it would be too late now to introduce a new character that is indeed Rum

I also agree him and Wakita must be partners in BO also but i'm waiting to see if we have a moment of Wakita being in Haibara's presence to see how she reacts. If she gets the BO sense I can see Gosho using that to trick some people and have for a brief period people think that is Rum. Only to find out he is another BO member but not Rum.


But aren't you contradicting your own statement, of adding another character this late when probably Rum arc is about to end.
if both Iori and Wakita are both BO members , i will understand if one of them is Rum, but what about the other, then there has to be a storyline for the other character which will in my case stretch it way too long,

Anyway , I think , WHAT IF

Wakita, Iori and Rumi were all RUM's disguise and Kuroda being the one to catch them/ the actual RUM.
Last edited by Tantei San on February 20th, 2017, 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 20th, 2017, 1:19 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Rum Arc Discussion Series: Iori Muga

Image

Spoiler:
Iori Muga is the latest recurring character that was introduced. There are many that has dismissed him as a potential Rum suspect, so I'm gonna go through everything worth noting in his introduction case(File 981-983).


Iori's plot involvement

As we know, at the end of Iori's introduction case(File 983), we found out that he was Momiji's butler, who was spying on Heiji during the case. The moment he was revealed to be connected to Momiji, a romance-subplot-related upcoming-movie guest, a majority(me included) almost immediately disqualified him as a Rum candidate, in the first few seconds. Many seems to think that Momiji's story will end, or that the love drama will conclude, in the movie, due to the movie focusing on Heiji and Kazuha's romance and Momiji being a love rival, as well as due to the cover art(drawn by Gosho) where Momiji is crying(as if a heart-break took place). There are however two important points that contradicts this notion.

The first point is the fact that both Momiji and Iori are canon characters. This means that they started as manga characters and will without a doubt end as manga characters. Judging by Gosho's history with the movies and how he treats the canon relative to the movie, the manga is not dependent on the movies. This ultimately means that Momiji's and Iori's story will be dealt with within the manga and not conclude in the movies.

The second point is the anime schedule, relative to the movie. The anime and the movies always goes hand in hand, in which the anime schedule is always adjusted to the movie premiere. Recently, it has involved adding special side-episodes that are supposed to tie the movies with the anime. Since the anime has no chance of catching up to Iori's and Momiji's latest appearances(File 983) before the movie premiere, there's no chance for the movie to smoothly connect with their anime appearances(in which Momiji is still an active love rival) so that it can conclude her story in the movie. This means that the movie will not impact Momiji's love story and her appearance will likely just serve as fanservice and teaser for her manga appearances.

This means that Gosho's cover art was just another red-herring(like the M18 cover with Akai being targeted) to generate hype for the movie, and this also means that Iori has the potential to be involved in the main plot like any other new character in the Rum arc.


Iori's identity

So far, Iori has only appeared in one case, but in this case(File 981-983) there was a lot of indications that makes him a valid Rum suspect. I'll go through all the individual descriptions of Rum.

Rum is said to be a "strong man".
Iori hasn't shown any physical feats that can portray him as a strong man, however, Gosho gave us an important hint that suggest that Iori has certain physical capabilities. During his first intro chapter(File 981), he intervened in Heiji's and Amuro's conversation. That moment, Iori took Heiji and Conan off-guard, and they reacted by thinking that they couldn't sense his presence.

Image

Considering that Iori revealed his presence when he intervened in the conversation, it's safe to assume that he didn't intend to keep himself hidden. This means that he sneaked up on them unintentionally, meaning that it's a habit. The habit of concealing oneself is a very common trait by infiltrators, investigators, and assassins. This indicates that Iori is at least physically trained in concealing himself, which usually follows with other physical capabillities that could portray him as "strong"(depending on his original occupation).

During the second chapter of his intro(File 982), we find out that he was standing in front of the exit after the blackout ended. Amuro suspected that Iori was trying to flee, but Iori excused it as him trying to stop anyone that would attempt to flee, after hearing a scream.

Image

Iori'a excuse is very questionable. Based on his excuse, it means that his first instinct was that the scream was a murder. This is a very suspicious preconception, since it would imply that Iori is used to hearing screams during murders. For him to react that fast after hearing one scream, it would imply that his reaction, of going to the exit, was also a habit. This habit is also very suspicious, because it's commonly associated with someone who's used to being present during crimes. The most common people that are involved in the heat of a crime are usually the criminals themselves. Following this line of thought, it would mean that his habit could be something that stems from him being an assassin. A common assassination strategy is usually to blind the target with darkness, sneak up on them and finish them off, and then immediately hurry to the exit before the lights turn on. This could be why Iori reacted to the scream by trying to flee(because he's used to fleeing the moment he hears screams that he instigated). If he's an assassin, then it would naturally come with physical capabilities that are meant to take down your target(just like how Rum was capable of physically taking down Kohji, before drugging him), which coincides with the "strong" description of Rum.

Rum is said to be an "effeminate man".
At the end of Iori's intro case(File 983), we get a glimpse at Iori's true appearance(without a hat) and he's revealed to have long curly hair. This instantly fits with Rum's description about a feminine appearance.

Image

Rum is said to be an "old man".
There's another hidden information about Iori that Gosho was hinting at. The first thing Iori did during his intro(File 981) is that he intervened with Amuro's and heiji's conversation. The historical references he was mentioning, connected to the "unlucky day friday 13th", all originated from Europe. They were specific instances in European history that are not common knowledge in Japan. This was alluding to Iori having a European influence. If we however connect this indication with a very clear appearance that Iori has, we can come to the conclusion that Iori most likely is half-European.

The appearance I'm referring to is his eyebrows. Iori's eyebrows are light-coloured/blond. That seems to suggest that his natural hair colour is actually light/blond.

Image

Since he showed knowledge of a Japanese superstition(Butsumetsu, File 981), and since no one has commented on him having a foreign look, Iori is most likely Japanese, and based on his natural colour and knowledge of Europe, he's most likely half-european(probably British). This would make him a young light/blond-haired Japanese, which is very rare and would attract a lot of attention when seen in public.

Image

Iori most likely dyed his hair black to blend in with other Japanese people. With his natural appearance however, it's not hard to believe that he could be described as an old man, if seen from afar, because only old men, that are japanese, usually have light-colored hair.

Rum has a prosthetic eye.
During Iori's intro case, we didn't get many opportunities to observe his movement and behavior that would suggest that he can't see with one eye. However, in File 988, Rumi, who seemingly has two functioning eyes, got suspected of having one disfunctional eye(the right eye). This was well crafted by Gosho, since he made sure that most of Rumi's head movement were consistent so that it wouldn't reveal that she has two functioning eyes. In my Rumi discussion, the evidence that I used to prove that she has two functioning eyes was that she turned both sides to look back without turning her body. Her left side is proven to work, since almost all her movement when looking back is to the left side. Her right side however was only one instance in File 968, when she was arguably looking at Genta's direction.

Image

It's very hard to tell if her pupils are on the right(because she picked up on the robbers' presence behind them, like Haibara), or if she's really looking at Genta. If it's not the latter(which I first assumed it was), then her being one-eyed isn't necessarily ruled out, meaning that Haibara's(and possibly Conan's) suspicion in File 988 isn't a completely unreasonable outcome. The point of this Rumi topic however is the fact that both of Rumi's eyes have been shown to move around, depending on the direction she is looking, and yet, Gosho is showing that she's valid enough to be suspected as someone with an artificial eye(which shouldn't be able to move). This could possibly mean that Gosho is disregarding the eye movement of characters with unnoticeable prosthetic eyes for plot conveniences(similarly to Conan's voice-changing bowtie not being noticed as the sound from a speaker). If that's the case, then Iori, who has shown to have moving eyes(like when he looked at the door to the side or at the phone below, File 982), might still have a prosthetic eye.

Image

If he has a prosthetic eye, then it's probably his left eye. My reasoning for that is based on Gosho's artistic choices when he creates a reflection effect on Rumi's glasses. All those time when the reflection covered one eye, it was always the right eye, which is being suspected to be disfunctional(File 968/979/980/988).

Image

Simarly to this, the two instances in Iori's introduction case, both reflections covered the left eye(File 981/982).

Image

If Iori is Rum, isn't he too young for the 17-year-old case?
By the time of the Kohji case, Iori was at least 13 years old(since his "Iori identity" is 30). That was the age that Shiho became a full-fledged high-ranked scientist of the Black Organization, due to her being an academic prodigy. Similarly to that, Rum could've also been prodigy, that showed so much potential in an early age and was able to carry out assassinations. Teenagers mature at different rates, so it's not impossible that he had an acceptable build and a lot of techniques to take down his opponents before finishing them off(in this case, with poison).
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.

Iori's overall portrayal of being "Watson", in his introduction case, could be Gosho's foreshadowing to Iori's overall role in the story. Since the boss is supposed to be a parallell to "Holmes", then Rum would equate to "Watson". The boss is most likely a sherlockian, due to him using "Sherlock Holmes" references to the experimental drug(Apotoxin [4869=Shi-Ha-Ro-Ku=Sherlock], and "incomplete detective"[APTX database password: "Shelling Ford"]), so Rum being "Watson" to the boss isn't an unreasonable assumption. Also, since friday 13th(Iori's intro day) involved major main plot development before(Akai's "death"), it's not weird that Gosho would intentionally use that day as a little nod to the readers that Iori's introduction is just as important.


Iori's goal

If Iori is Rum, then the only possible reason to why he would be Momiji's butler is her family, the Ooka, or someone the Ooka family are close to. So far, we don't have enough information to go beyond that, but if that's the case, then his butler behavior is definitely an act, in order to achieve something bigger.


Summary:
- Movie 21 will not resolve Momiji's and Iori's current subplot.
- Iori is a valid Rum suspect, and could in fact be Rum.


Spoiler:
Congrats—while he won't be my top pick, you just convinced me to change Muga's Rum suspect status on the Fit the Pieces Together thread. He'll now be more likely, in my book, to be Rum than Hyoue or Kanenori.

And whether he's Rum or not, he's a manga character—thanks for dedicating a part of the post to make clear that he and Momiji aren't just going to be movie characters who'll disappear after Movie 21.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » February 20th, 2017, 1:45 pm

Mh, not sure about this. Ofc, I never disregarded him as impossible just because he is currently in the Heiji subplot, because he is a manga character, but so far, except for "It's not impossible", I don't much reason to have him high on the Rum suspect list. Sure, the effeminate part fits, but really, unless there is 1.) any hint about the relevance of the Ooka family to, well ... anything, 2.) a hint that Muga age might be higher than his introduction caption states (he would've 13 during the Koji Haneda case and shrinking would too contradictory), or 3.) there are more hints for the other Rum descriptions and the eye, I will consider him only as an outlier besides all the other suspects.

Sure, he will appear in the manga again, but honestly, I believe that there will be a manga story involving the Momiji subplot at the same time as the movie (with the movie concluding with a retained status quo and will have no relevance to the manga story), which will lead into the HeiZuha confession and thus conclude Momiji's plot. Currently, I don't see reason to believe that these characters will appear after that again. As I said (too) many times in this post: for now at least.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Swagnarok » February 20th, 2017, 1:50 pm

One must wonder, though. In the Shinichi Wada case, his disguise was relatively simple. Had Amuro met him before, he probably wouldn't have been fooled by the disguise. If they were both high-ranking BO operatives, it makes sense that they would've met at some prior point.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » February 20th, 2017, 1:53 pm

Tantei San wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:Rum Arc Discussion Series: Iori Muga

Image

Spoiler:
Iori Muga is the latest recurring character that was introduced. There are many that has dismissed him as a potential Rum suspect, so I'm gonna go through everything worth noting in his introduction case(File 981-983).


Iori's plot involvement

As we know, at the end of Iori's introduction case(File 983), we found out that he was Momiji's butler, who was spying on Heiji during the case. The moment he was revealed to be connected to Momiji, a romance-subplot-related upcoming-movie guest, a majority(me included) almost immediately disqualified him as a Rum candidate, in the first few seconds. Many seems to think that Momiji's story will end, or that the love drama will conclude, in the movie, due to the movie focusing on Heiji and Kazuha's romance and Momiji being a love rival, as well as due to the cover art(drawn by Gosho) where Momiji is crying(as if a heart-break took place). There are however two important points that contradicts this notion.

The first point is the fact that both Momiji and Iori are canon characters. This means that they started as manga characters and will without a doubt end as manga characters. Judging by Gosho's history with the movies and how he treats the canon relative to the movie, the manga is not dependent on the movies. This ultimately means that Momiji's and Iori's story will be dealt with within the manga and not conclude in the movies.

The second point is the anime schedule, relative to the movie. The anime and the movies always goes hand in hand, in which the anime schedule is always adjusted to the movie premiere. Recently, it has involved adding special side-episodes that are supposed to tie the movies with the anime. Since the anime has no chance of catching up to Iori's and Momiji's latest appearances(File 983) before the movie premiere, there's no chance for the movie to smoothly connect with their anime appearances(in which Momiji is still an active love rival) so that it can conclude her story in the movie. This means that the movie will not impact Momiji's love story and her appearance will likely just serve as fanservice and teaser for her manga appearances.

This means that Gosho's cover art was just another red-herring(like the M18 cover with Akai being targeted) to generate hype for the movie, and this also means that Iori has the potential to be involved in the main plot like any other new character in the Rum arc.


Iori's identity

So far, Iori has only appeared in one case, but in this case(File 981-983) there was a lot of indications that makes him a valid Rum suspect. I'll go through all the individual descriptions of Rum.

Rum is said to be a "strong man".
Iori hasn't shown any physical feats that can portray him as a strong man, however, Gosho gave us an important hint that suggest that Iori has certain physical capabilities. During his first intro chapter(File 981), he intervened in Heiji's and Amuro's conversation. That moment, Iori took Heiji and Conan off-guard, and they reacted by thinking that they couldn't sense his presence.

Image

Considering that Iori revealed his presence when he intervened in the conversation, it's safe to assume that he didn't intend to keep himself hidden. This means that he sneaked up on them unintentionally, meaning that it's a habit. The habit of concealing oneself is a very common trait by infiltrators, investigators, and assassins. This indicates that Iori is at least physically trained in concealing himself, which usually follows with other physical capabillities that could portray him as "strong"(depending on his original occupation).

During the second chapter of his intro(File 982), we find out that he was standing in front of the exit after the blackout ended. Amuro suspected that Iori was trying to flee, but Iori excused it as him trying to stop anyone that would attempt to flee, after hearing a scream.

Image

Iori'a excuse is very questionable. Based on his excuse, it means that his first instinct was that the scream was a murder. This is a very suspicious preconception, since it would imply that Iori is used to hearing screams during murders. For him to react that fast after hearing one scream, it would imply that his reaction, of going to the exit, was also a habit. This habit is also very suspicious, because it's commonly associated with someone who's used to being present during crimes. The most common people that are involved in the heat of a crime are usually the criminals themselves. Following this line of thought, it would mean that his habit could be something that stems from him being an assassin. A common assassination strategy is usually to blind the target with darkness, sneak up on them and finish them off, and then immediately hurry to the exit before the lights turn on. This could be why Iori reacted to the scream by trying to flee(because he's used to fleeing the moment he hears screams that he instigated). If he's an assassin, then it would naturally come with physical capabilities that are meant to take down your target(just like how Rum was capable of physically taking down Kohji, before drugging him), which coincides with the "strong" description of Rum.

Rum is said to be an "effeminate man".
At the end of Iori's intro case(File 983), we get a glimpse at Iori's true appearance(without a hat) and he's revealed to have long curly hair. This instantly fits with Rum's description about a feminine appearance.

Image

Rum is said to be an "old man".
There's another hidden information about Iori that Gosho was hinting at. The first thing Iori did during his intro(File 981) is that he intervened with Amuro's and heiji's conversation. The historical references he was mentioning, connected to the "unlucky day friday 13th", all originated from Europe. They were specific instances in European history that are not common knowledge in Japan. This was alluding to Iori having a European influence. If we however connect this indication with a very clear appearance that Iori has, we can come to the conclusion that Iori most likely is half-European.

The appearance I'm referring to is his eyebrows. Iori's eyebrows are light-coloured/blond. That seems to suggest that his natural hair colour is actually light/blond.

Image

Since he showed knowledge of a Japanese superstition(Butsumetsu, File 981), and since no one has commented on him having a foreign look, Iori is most likely Japanese, and based on his natural colour and knowledge of Europe, he's most likely half-european(probably British). This would make him a young light/blond-haired Japanese, which is very rare and would attract a lot of attention when seen in public.

Image

Iori most likely dyed his hair black to blend in with other Japanese people. With his natural appearance however, it's not hard to believe that he could be described as an old man, if seen from afar, because only old men, that are japanese, usually have light-colored hair.

Rum has a prosthetic eye.
During Iori's intro case, we didn't get many opportunities to observe his movement and behavior that would suggest that he can't see with one eye. However, in File 988, Rumi, who seemingly has two functioning eyes, got suspected of having one disfunctional eye(the right eye). This was well crafted by Gosho, since he made sure that most of Rumi's head movement were consistent so that it wouldn't reveal that she has two functioning eyes. In my Rumi discussion, the evidence that I used to prove that she has two functioning eyes was that she turned both sides to look back without turning her body. Her left side is proven to work, since almost all her movement when looking back is to the left side. Her right side however was only one instance in File 968, when she was arguably looking at Genta's direction.

Image

It's very hard to tell if her pupils are on the right(because she picked up on the robbers' presence behind them, like Haibara), or if she's really looking at Genta. If it's not the latter(which I first assumed it was), then her being one-eyed isn't necessarily ruled out, meaning that Haibara's(and possibly Conan's) suspicion in File 988 isn't a completely unreasonable outcome. The point of this Rumi topic however is the fact that both of Rumi's eyes have been shown to move around, depending on the direction she is looking, and yet, Gosho is showing that she's valid enough to be suspected as someone with an artificial eye(which shouldn't be able to move). This could possibly mean that Gosho is disregarding the eye movement of characters with unnoticeable prosthetic eyes for plot conveniences(similarly to Conan's voice-changing bowtie not being noticed as the sound from a speaker). If that's the case, then Iori, who has shown to have moving eyes(like when he looked at the door to the side or at the phone below, File 982), might still have a prosthetic eye.

Image

If he has a prosthetic eye, then it's probably his left eye. My reasoning for that is based on Gosho's artistic choices when he creates a reflection effect on Rumi's glasses. All those time when the reflection covered one eye, it was always the right eye, which is being suspected to be disfunctional(File 968/979/980/988).

Image

Simarly to this, the two instances in Iori's introduction case, both reflections covered the left eye(File 981/982).

Image

If Iori is Rum, isn't he too young for the 17-year-old case?
By the time of the Kohji case, Iori was at least 13 years old(since his "Iori identity" is 30). That was the age that Shiho became a full-fledged high-ranked scientist of the Black Organization, due to her being an academic prodigy. Similarly to that, Rum could've also been prodigy, that showed so much potential in an early age and was able to carry out assassinations. Teenagers mature at different rates, so it's not impossible that he had an acceptable build and a lot of techniques to take down his opponents before finishing them off(in this case, with poison).
Following my previous speculations on the potential Wakita-foreshadowing(About the boss betting so much on Rum and that Wakita sees Rum as weak), it's possible that Wakita's underestimation of Rum is based on Rum's inexperience and how he's too young to be the second-in-command, while the Boss disregards that(similarly to Sherry's case), and bets a lot on Rum's potential of being an excellent commander.

Iori's overall portrayal of being "Watson", in his introduction case, could be Gosho's foreshadowing to Iori's overall role in the story. Since the boss is supposed to be a parallell to "Holmes", then Rum would equate to "Watson". The boss is most likely a sherlockian, due to him using "Sherlock Holmes" references to the experimental drug(Apotoxin [4869=Shi-Ha-Ro-Ku=Sherlock], and "incomplete detective"[APTX database password: "Shelling Ford"]), so Rum being "Watson" to the boss isn't an unreasonable assumption. Also, since friday 13th(Iori's intro day) involved major main plot development before(Akai's "death"), it's not weird that Gosho would intentionally use that day as a little nod to the readers that Iori's introduction is just as important.


Iori's goal

If Iori is Rum, then the only possible reason to why he would be Momiji's butler is her family, the Ooka, or someone the Ooka family are close to. So far, we don't have enough information to go beyond that, but if that's the case, then his butler behavior is definitely an act, in order to achieve something bigger.


Summary:
- Movie 21 will not resolve Momiji's and Iori's current subplot.
- Iori is a valid Rum suspect, and could in fact be Rum.


Spot on.....!!
My only concern is that the BO has been working for quite a long time at least more than 20-25 years (with respect to akemi's age, maybe more), coming through the ranks is not easy and specially not so for a 13 year old.
Also, I have a feeling that maybe Momiji's father is the Boss, I don't know , I mentioned it before as well, and will say it again, though there is a possibility had Gosho not decided who the boss is, but since his ex-wife knows so i am wrong. No probs!
Again, Gr8 work MeitanteixX

alphajjc wrote:
This is spectacular man. You keep knocking it out the park. We are almost at the 1000 file and although that is not a guarantee we get the reveal simply because of the significance of the number...I think it would be too late now to introduce a new character that is indeed Rum

I also agree him and Wakita must be partners in BO also but i'm waiting to see if we have a moment of Wakita being in Haibara's presence to see how she reacts. If she gets the BO sense I can see Gosho using that to trick some people and have for a brief period people think that is Rum. Only to find out he is another BO member but not Rum.


But aren't you contradicting your own statement, of adding another character this late when probably Rum arc is about to end.
if both Iori and Wakita are both BO members , i will understand if one of them is Rum, but what about the other, then there has to be a storyline for the other character which will in my case stretch it way too long,

Anyway , I think , WHAT IF

Wakita, Iori and Rumi were all RUM's disguise and Kuroda being the one to catch them/ the actual RUM.


Its different with Wakita though because there doesn' thave to be a long series of a storyline talking about Wakita being a BO member...say Brandy. Because Rum is the more important figure. That is what i' m saying.

I mean we didn't get a big storyline when introduced to Chianti or Korn. I know they are less significant but all Gosho has to do is simply explain the jealousy and why he has that jealousy towards Rum. It doesn't take 10 chapters for him to say that the main reason for the animosity was that he was an old Tokoyite with years of experience and this young guy took his position and mention how another young guy...Gin...not as quite as young as Iori also arguably seems like he is in a higher position than him or gets more important tasks.

Then tell us what is his particular expertise in the organization. That is all basically. He doesn't have an entire arc named after him like Rum that is why i say it isn't the same thing
alphajjc
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » February 20th, 2017, 1:55 pm

Serinox wrote:Mh, not sure about this. Ofc, I never disregarded him as impossible just because he is currently in the Heiji subplot, because he is a manga character, but so far, except for "It's not impossible", I don't much reason to have him high on the Rum suspect list. Sure, the effeminate part fits, but really, unless there is 1.) any hint about the relevance of the Ooka family to, well ... anything, 2.) a hint that Muga age might be higher than his introduction caption states (he would've 13 during the Koji Haneda case and shrinking would too contradictory), or 3.) there are more hints for the other Rum descriptions and the eye, I will consider him only as an outlier besides all the other suspects.

Sure, he will appear in the manga again, but honestly, I believe that there will be a manga story involving the Momiji subplot at the same time as the movie (with the movie concluding with a retained status quo and will have no relevance to the manga story), which will lead into the HeiZuha confession and thus conclude Momiji's plot. Currently, I don't see reason to believe that these characters will appear after that again. As I said (too) many times in this post: for now at least.


But there has to be more to him with how Conan and Heiji both had those looks on their faces about his presence. That has to be significant. And at this point i think Gosho knows he has had too many spies so far and another situation of us being told he is a "good guy" will seem too predictable.
Serinox
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » February 20th, 2017, 2:41 pm

alphajjc wrote:
Serinox wrote:Mh, not sure about this. Ofc, I never disregarded him as impossible just because he is currently in the Heiji subplot, because he is a manga character, but so far, except for "It's not impossible", I don't much reason to have him high on the Rum suspect list. Sure, the effeminate part fits, but really, unless there is 1.) any hint about the relevance of the Ooka family to, well ... anything, 2.) a hint that Muga age might be higher than his introduction caption states (he would've 13 during the Koji Haneda case and shrinking would too contradictory), or 3.) there are more hints for the other Rum descriptions and the eye, I will consider him only as an outlier besides all the other suspects.

Sure, he will appear in the manga again, but honestly, I believe that there will be a manga story involving the Momiji subplot at the same time as the movie (with the movie concluding with a retained status quo and will have no relevance to the manga story), which will lead into the HeiZuha confession and thus conclude Momiji's plot. Currently, I don't see reason to believe that these characters will appear after that again. As I said (too) many times in this post: for now at least.


But there has to be more to him with how Conan and Heiji both had those looks on their faces about his presence. That has to be significant. And at this point i think Gosho knows he has had too many spies so far and another situation of us being told he is a "good guy" will seem too predictable.

That really didn't happen that much in the end. One time they glare at him when they first notice him, Conan stares intensly when the man calls himself Shinichi Wada, and then Conan has a stern look on his face when he makes his final remarks on the whole situation at the end of the case. One time per chapter really, which can be explained as setup for an aspect of the Momiji subplot, since Heiji and Conan will still find out the true identity of the guy as Momiji's butler.
k11chi
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby k11chi » February 20th, 2017, 3:02 pm

alphajjc wrote:
Serinox wrote:Mh, not sure about this. Ofc, I never disregarded him as impossible just because he is currently in the Heiji subplot, because he is a manga character, but so far, except for "It's not impossible", I don't much reason to have him high on the Rum suspect list. Sure, the effeminate part fits, but really, unless there is 1.) any hint about the relevance of the Ooka family to, well ... anything, 2.) a hint that Muga age might be higher than his introduction caption states (he would've 13 during the Koji Haneda case and shrinking would too contradictory), or 3.) there are more hints for the other Rum descriptions and the eye, I will consider him only as an outlier besides all the other suspects.

Sure, he will appear in the manga again, but honestly, I believe that there will be a manga story involving the Momiji subplot at the same time as the movie (with the movie concluding with a retained status quo and will have no relevance to the manga story), which will lead into the HeiZuha confession and thus conclude Momiji's plot. Currently, I don't see reason to believe that these characters will appear after that again. As I said (too) many times in this post: for now at least.


But there has to be more to him with how Conan and Heiji both had those looks on their faces about his presence. That has to be significant. And at this point i think Gosho knows he has had too many spies so far and another situation of us being told he is a "good guy" will seem too predictable.

Good and bad are pretty subjective and nothing is stopping from adding more spies anyway (Gin is probably going to catch couple at one point since that's a plot point over there). And Gosho gives traits to every single character, Iori's trait happens to be being able to hide his presence I guess.
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » February 20th, 2017, 3:19 pm

Agree with Serinox on this one.

To me its just an "easter egg"-type thing that they couldnt feel his presence due to the fact that he´s a butler.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
alphajjc
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » February 20th, 2017, 4:30 pm

dccd wrote:Agree with Serinox on this one.

To me its just an "easter egg"-type thing that they couldnt feel his presence due to the fact that he´s a butler.


Trust me we are gonna see him "drinking Rum" in a chapter soon lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng96mOT6Y2w

Remember this? Or any other case. I think Conan is gonna be deciding between three people as usual and its strange for Gosho to introduce these three new characters in Iori, Wakita, and Rumi and then to introduce someone else before file 1000 that is indeed Rum? No something is up one of those three has to be Rum. How many new characters can we possibly keep having appear?

This may be unrelated but i was just thinking about something. Could be a huge coincidence but whether he is Rum or not 17 years ago, Iori was 13 years old, 17 years ago and Momiji is 17 now. So did he get this "butler job" after the incident 17 years ago ? Is there something more with the fact she was a baby at that time?


By the way MeiTanteixX I dont know if you wanna add this to your post on Iori but...

Remember he ordered "tea" ?

Gunfire (or Gun-fire) is a British cocktail made of black tea and rum. It has its origins in the British Army and is also used as a name for early morning tea in the army.


Sounds convenient if he does indeed have a British connection . Or maybe the tea is for the British connection but I'm also wondering if it was a way to be less obvious about "rum"

Yes i know what we are all thinking...him seeming to have an affection for Momiji and getting into something as silly as romance sounds nothing like a BO figure but what if he is helping her get close to Heiji so he himself can also get close to Heiji because he knows his relation to Shinichi
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby PhantomWriter » February 20th, 2017, 4:39 pm

dccd wrote:Agree with Serinox on this one.

To me its just an "easter egg"-type thing that they couldnt feel his presence due to the fact that he´s a butler.


Psychologically, most people disregard butlers, servants, and so forth and have problems recalling them compared to other people they've met at that time. An infiltrator is often better off hiding among serving staff for that reason, along with having access to more areas while having what appears to be a legitimate reason for doing so.
"Data! Data! Data! I cannot make bricks without clay." -Sherlock Holmes

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