Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 377

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 14th, 2019, 7:17 am

blackmoon wrote:Image

Hmm... anyways, i kinda miss the clash between Jodie and Heiji where they were both able to pick up the minute details through their language usage... so we would assume RUM is somewhat of an English speaker based on the short text that was sent to Bourbon... and if you really take the element of Bourbon commenting about RUM being impatient into account... Rei must have known RUM in person.

Image


Not exactly, Bourbon could still deduce that Rum is impatient from two back to back messages. But the crux of the issue is why Rum texts, instead of doing a voice call?
Does Rei knows Rum's voice?(but if Rum is really just known by Rum the voice won't be much of a difference unless Rum interacts with rei with a different identity and if he calls rei, Rum's cover will blow up?)
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1255

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 14th, 2019, 7:20 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:But here's the thing—Hyōe's the only one who's had a moment like that. As zerozaki pointed out, Shiho's/Ai's acceptance of Rumi is emotion-based, not evidence-based, as was the case with Hyōe.

Now—the distinction I made that you quickly jumped on. I think the Rum arc's just different from the Vermouth arc. We don't have to account for characters introduced before the arc being impersonated by the arc's titular character (i.e., Tomoaki Araide). That's why I'd describe the disguised Vermouth as "seemingly trustworthy," and Hyōe as "the least distrustworthy."

I'm fairly confident in thinking Rumi's not going to turn out to be Rum. Kanenori turning out to be Rum is the Bourbon arc on repeat—I think we can both agree that it is not our preference that Gosho choose this option. That leaves Hyōe and a potential fourth suspect (i.e., Muga Iori).

So make your case—why is Rum Muga Iori and not Hyōe Kuroda?
Ok, however, Kanenori is the only one (out of the 3) who wasn't portrayed as Rum to the same extent as your typical mislead character (like Subaru, Sera, Jodie) that it would even require a balancing exonerating portrayal to begin with (as in the case of Rumi's & Subaru's emotional-based, Kuroda's evidence-based and Jodie's & Sera's physical-based).

Of course, Vermouth arc, and even Bourbon arc by extension, are never gonna be the same as Rum arc on a surface-level, but there is always an underlying pattern in Gosho's writing and portrayal of plot characters through out his series that is consistent with his characters' planned role, which is what I'm trying to address when pointing out the key difference in portrayal between not just Kuroda & Araide, but even Kuroda & Amuro (who, like Kuroda & unlike Araide, was a portrayed suspect in a who-dunnit mystery).

As am I, and I have supported the "Rumi is the Subaru/Jodie-equivalent of this arc" notion since burning tent case.

I can agree that it is not my preference in general for Wakita to be Rum, but that's mainly due to his so-called "least portrayed as suspicious out of the 3" title is too suspicious enough to be Rum, based on Gosho's history. In File 975, Gosho actively made Conan highlight Wakita's similarity with Rum's description by remembering Haibara's words about Rum, and then actively pry on his eye (which is associating Wakita too much with Rum & making Gosho reveal his hand too much to the reader than he usually would if the suspect in question is the main antagonist). For that fundamental reason, complimented by the loudly incriminating Kamen Yaiba reference foreshadowing & ofc the obvious Amuro-like development (even having Conan pointing out "another apprentice?", which is an indirect callback to the previous main antagonist's intro), I don't think, or would like, for Wakita to be Rum.
However, Kuroda is even further gone in that department, so to me, he is definitely not a remainder in your process of elimination, and I would even say that Wakita is far more likely/desired outcome as Rum to me when consistency in Gosho's writing is concerned.

Unlike Kuroda, Iori Muga has been close to invisible in his portrayal as anyone relevant, let alone Rum, yet at the same time has been present enough in the story to be potentially relevant.

First of all, for a "hidden suspect" route, fundamentally, his development so far already checks the minimal requirements, similar to Araide, unlike Kuroda, who doesn't check the minimal requirements in a "one of the 3" route, like Amuro.

Secondly, Iori Muga is an effeminate man, which is one of the 3 descriptions of Rum, like stocky/strong-built man that Kuroda represents & old man that Wakita represents. Effeminate man role was however hijacked by Conan's "Asaka=Rum"-based alteration that Rum could be a "woman as strong as a man", which is what Wakasa represents. This type of move by Gosho, that ultimately hides an early foreshadowed Rum component in the narrative (and by extension suspects matching said component), is very on brand with a "hidden suspect" route, and considering that Asaka=Rum was altered in the narrative to Carasuma, there is no evidence anymore that supports the change from "effeminate man" to "woman as strong as a man". This further solidifies that effeminate men are credible options, and by extension Iori Muga, and with the amount of effort put to hide said Rum component, it further elevates the chances that Rum ends up being an "effeminate man" like Iori Muga, rather than the Jodie/Subaru-like "woman as strong as a man" that replaced it, Wakasa Rumi.

To throw in a third weaker case that relies on assumptions, M25 was hyped up by the staff to cause a bigger uproar than M20 (which involved unrevealed Rum). If M25 will involve a revealed Rum, then for the sake of an actual calculated twist value, by Gosho/movie staff, for casual DC movie-goers (that has followed the traditional DC movie releases), Rum should ideally have been introduced to them before he is revealed, which leaves us funnily enough with the 2 we are currently comparing, Kuroda Hyõe & Iori Muga (assuming M24 doesn't have a random Rumi & Wakita appearance). Kuroda's muted "Bourbon", and M22 guidebook that directly highlights him as potential Rum, ruins the twist value to the casual viewers, unlike Iori's mysterious intro that had Ayanokoji's chipmunk scared & running to hide in his pocket.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on November 14th, 2019, 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 377

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 14th, 2019, 8:19 am

As an Ex-believer of this 4th suspect theory, I do like to comment on things here.

"First of all, for a "hidden suspect" route, fundamentally, his development so far already checks the minimal requirements, similar to Araide, unlike Kuroda, who doesn't check the minimal requirements in a "one of the 3" route, like Amuro."

No he isn't shown to involved enough with the main cast and has his own headaches to deal with. He also doesn't check the minimal requirements(as shown by Kansuke i.e. Rum model),
a) He isn't strongly built(but has an attractive figure), he is womanly(checks), he has no old man like mannerisms. Biggest of all, his eye is not prosthetic neither he shows visual impairment like Rumi.

``Secondly, Iori Muga is an effeminate man, which is one of the 3 descriptions of Rum, like stocky/strong-built man that Kuroda represents & old man that Wakita represents. Effeminate man role was however hijacked by Conan's "Asaka=Rum"-based alteration that Rum could be a "woman as strong as a man", which is what Wakasa represents. This type of move by Gosho, that ultimately hides an early foreshadowed Rum component in the narrative (and by extension suspects matching said component), is very on brand with a "hidden suspect" route, and considering that Asaka=Rum was altered in the narrative to Carasuma, there is no evidence anymore that supports the change from "effeminate man" to "woman as strong as a man". This further solidifies that effeminate men are credible options, and by extension Iori Muga, and with the amount of effort put to hide said Rum component, it further elevates the chances that Rum ends up being an "effeminate man" like Iori Muga, rather than the Jodie/Subaru-like "woman as strong as a man" that replaced it, Wakasa Rumi.``

This creates a very binary interpretation. Effeminate man doesn't necessarily boils down to the fact that the man has womanly appearance only. It can mean a trait. Plus despite (Kansuke being used as a Rum model) the way of Rum suspects are in parallel with the 3 suspects of the lady's suicide case. In this hussle one seemingly forgets that Kuroda likes "tea" considered an effeminate drink and has white hair considered a sign of old age. So Kuroda is a complete Rum suspect like the Rum model. Nobody else comes to the foray.
So I would say Kuroda's feminine quality is much more subtle that Iori's. hence if anybody is gonna replace Rumi, it is likely to be Kuroda not Iori. So here on the display is Kuroda-stocky one eyed man, Rumi-one eyed woman as strong as a man, Wakita-one eyed old man. Here nowhere in the display is Kuroda the complete Rum suspect. If You're bored with these 3-over the table suspects you can play with Iori/Chikara a bit.
TBF Rumi is Jodie like character not Subaru like character. A Subaru character is someone who is set up by Conan i.e. Conan immediately trusts him despite the wrong auras. Which is significantly different from a Jodie like character who gets investigated/suspected by Conan at first.

Araide characters are generally paired with Jodie characters so that the Jodie constantly draws suspicion while the Araide can subtly hide behind that suspicion. (Which Kuroda does, if You suspect that Rumi is the trigger and is BO, Kuroda gets cleared off. An APTX list isn't the only thing that makes somebody BO.)

On the third issue, a reverse spy on the upper echelon of NPA is a twist in itself.
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1562

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 14th, 2019, 3:51 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Kanenori is the only one (out of the 3) who wasn't portrayed as Rum to the same extent as your typical mislead character (like Subaru, Sera, Jodie) that it would even require a balancing exonerating portrayal to begin with (as in the case of Rumi's & Subaru's emotional-based, Kuroda's evidence-based and Jodie's & Sera's physical-based).

Of course, Vermouth arc, and even Bourbon arc by extension, are never gonna be the same as Rum arc on a surface-level, but there is always an underlying pattern in Gosho's writing and portrayal of plot characters through out his series that is consistent with his characters' planned role, which is what I'm trying to address when pointing out the key difference in portrayal between not just Kuroda & Araide, but even Kuroda & Amuro (who, like Kuroda & unlike Araide, was a portrayed suspect in a who-dunnit mystery).

I can agree that it is not my preference in general for Wakita to be Rum, but that's mainly due to his so-called "least portrayed as suspicious out of the 3" title is too suspicious enough to be Rum, based on Gosho's history. In File 975, Gosho actively made Conan highlight Wakita's similarity with Rum's description by remembering Haibara's words about Rum, and then actively pry on his eye (which is associating Wakita too much with Rum & making Gosho reveal his hand too much to the reader than he usually would if the suspect in question is the main antagonist). For that fundamental reason, complimented by the loudly incriminating Kamen Yaiba reference foreshadowing & ofc the obvious Amuro-like development (even having Conan pointing out "another apprentice?", which is an indirect callback to the previous main antagonist's intro), I don't think, or would like, for Wakita to be Rum.
However, Kuroda is even further gone in that department, so to me, he is definitely not a remainder in your process of elimination, and I would even say that Wakita is far more likely/desired outcome as Rum to me when consistency in Gosho's writing is concerned.


In terms of the consistency and patterns you refer to... how do we know Gosho isn't mixing things up this time around? If he doesn't, then it's easier for us to predict things. After the Bourbon arc, of course it's an easy prediction to just look at Kanenori and go, "welp, there's Rum!" For Gosho to have Kanenori be so similar the one who turned out to be it in the immediately preceding arc... it seems just a wasted opportunity for Gosho to just have such a character be it, once again. So I go with the notion that he made Kanenori like Rei in order to set up the twist, "hey, you'd thought I'd do that for two arcs in a row? Nope!"

Zerozaki4869 wrote:In Rum arc we see there are two types of suspects.
a) Type-1 : Kuroda and Rumi. They are operating in a suspicious manner right under the nose of the protagonist and the reader.
b) Type-2 : Wakita. He is only suspicious to readers and don't indulge much with the protaginits, even if he does he ensures that he isn't suspicious like the former two. He has the biggest baggage of meta-hints/misdirections to be Rum.

Now when we consider Kuroda and Rumi, both of them come off as Jodie/Masumi like suspects.(Conan knew nothing about them and they are operating in front of Conan) here Kuroda gets exonerated at the expense of Rumi. The things which really should be a character certificate for Rumi are used against her.
She is shown with a particular pattern of scars, more on her left hand less on her right hand. More on her outer upper arms. Which ensures a fight with knife wielding opponent. Now she has the APTX list but which she takes out after Shinichi is supposedly sighted. Why would she do that unless she is making some 2+2=4, i.e. APTX can shrink and Conan is very likely Shinichi. Any old/rehashed character who knows Conan's secret won't behave like that, mean she is a new kid on the block.
Haibara after getting triggered even considered whether Rumi is blind in one eye or not. So she was already considering that Rumi is Rum(the worst possible outcome) yet just one act of kindness(which was shrouded in lunacy and destabilising behaviour) gets her on Haibara's good book?
Answer is Haibara knows that despite her behaviour Rumi is not one of them, rather someone who might have shared some history with her family/parents.( I do have a lowkey idea that she is a sister of Haibara's dad and somehow is related also to Kohji)
Now Rumi gets entangled cause Haibara's overt rationalization of how Kuroda can't be Rum.

Here is we follow the idea that we can see Jodie/Araide were paired together. Haibara gets triggered, Jodie takes the blame cause she is the one portrayed with more suspicious behaviour which is directly pointed out and not Araide whose suspicious behaviours are to be deduced by the reader.
Here we see a similar Rumi/Kuroda pairing while Wakita playing the waiting game.

TBF Rumi is Jodie like character not Subaru like character. A Subaru character is someone who is set up by Conan i.e. Conan immediately trusts him despite the wrong auras. Which is significantly different from a Jodie like character who gets investigated/suspected by Conan at first.

Araide characters are generally paired with Jodie characters so that the Jodie constantly draws suspicion while the Araide can subtly hide behind that suspicion. (Which Kuroda does, if You suspect that Rumi is the trigger and is BO, Kuroda gets cleared off. An APTX list isn't the only thing that makes somebody BO.)

On the third issue, a reverse spy on the upper echelon of NPA is a twist in itself.


Kanenori's been off doing his own thing (hanging around with Kogorō), whereas Rumi and Hyōe have already caught each other's attention (true, Masumi and Rei didn't have proper interaction until the Rum arc, but they expressed interest in each other... and just like Hyōe stalked Rumi, Rei stalked Masumi).

Now that I think about it, Shūichi could be considered a Vermouth suspect—in 343/278, Shinichi/Conan remarks that, in addition to Jodie, there were two more suspicious people. One was "Dr. Araide." The other must've been Shūichi—he appeared multiple times and was on the bus (287–289/230–231) with the two other suspects, whereas James Black only appeared once (and did not reappear at all until the Kir arc began) and was not on the bus.

If we consider Shūichi the third Vermouth suspect, when comparing the Vermouth arc to the Bourbon and Rum arcs, we get either this...

"Dr. Araide" –> Rei/Tōru –> Hyōe

Jodie –> Shūichi/Subaru –> Rumi

Shūichi –> Masumi –> Kanenori

(If Kanenori turns out to be Tsutomu, then we have son, daughter and father playing the waiting game...)

Or this...

"Dr. Araide" –> Rei/Tōru –> Hyōe

Jodie –> Masumi –> Rumi

Shūichi –> Shūichi/Subaru –> Kanenori

(Still all Akais playing the waiting game. :D )

Yes, since we've yet to have one.

MeiTanteixX wrote:To throw in a third weaker case that relies on assumptions, M25 was hyped up by the staff to cause a bigger uproar than M20 (which involved unrevealed Rum). If M25 will involve a revealed Rum, then for the sake of an actual calculated twist value, by Gosho/movie staff, for casual DC movie-goers (that has followed the traditional DC movie releases), Rum should ideally have been introduced to them before he is revealed, which leaves us funnily enough with the 2 we are currently comparing, Kuroda Hyõe & Iori Muga (assuming M24 doesn't have a random Rumi & Wakita appearance). Kuroda's muted "Bourbon", and M22 guidebook that directly highlights him as potential Rum, ruins the twist value to the casual viewers, unlike Iori's mysterious intro that had Ayanokoji's chipmunk scared & running to hide in his pocket.


But you also had people dismissing Hyōe as a suspect for that.

I can see the perspective of, "why else would such a thing happen?" But there's also the perspective the lil' one simply got spooked by the sounds of someone approaching, and it just happened to be Muga who was approaching.

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:First of all, for a "hidden suspect" route, fundamentally, his development so far already checks the minimal requirements, similar to Araide, unlike Kuroda, who doesn't check the minimal requirements in a "one of the 3" route, like Amuro.


He doesn't check the minimal requirements(as shown by Kansuke i.e. Rum model),
a) He isn't strongly built(but has an attractive figure), he is womanly(checks), he has no old man like mannerisms. Biggest of all, his eye is not prosthetic neither he shows visual impairment like Rumi.


Secondly, Iori Muga is an effeminate man, which is one of the 3 descriptions of Rum, like stocky/strong-built man that Kuroda represents & old man that Wakita represents. Effeminate man role was however hijacked by Conan's "Asaka=Rum"-based alteration that Rum could be a "woman as strong as a man", which is what Wakasa represents. This type of move by Gosho, that ultimately hides an early foreshadowed Rum component in the narrative (and by extension suspects matching said component), is very on brand with a "hidden suspect" route, and considering that Asaka=Rum was altered in the narrative to Carasuma, there is no evidence anymore that supports the change from "effeminate man" to "woman as strong as a man". This further solidifies that effeminate men are credible options, and by extension Iori Muga, and with the amount of effort put to hide said Rum component, it further elevates the chances that Rum ends up being an "effeminate man" like Iori Muga, rather than the Jodie/Subaru-like "woman as strong as a man" that replaced it, Wakasa Rumi.


This creates a very binary interpretation. Effeminate man doesn't necessarily boils down to the fact that the man has womanly appearance only. It can mean a trait. Plus despite (Kansuke being used as a Rum model) the way of Rum suspects are in parallel with the 3 suspects of the lady's suicide case. In this hussle one seemingly forgets that Kuroda likes "tea" considered an effeminate drink and has white hair considered a sign of old age. So Kuroda is a complete Rum suspect like the Rum model. Nobody else comes to the foray.
So I would say Kuroda's feminine quality is much more subtle that Iori's. hence if anybody is gonna replace Rumi, it is likely to be Kuroda not Iori. So here on the display is Kuroda-stocky one eyed man, Rumi-one eyed woman as strong as a man, Wakita-one eyed old man. Here nowhere in the display is Kuroda the complete Rum suspect. If You're bored with these 3-over the table suspects you can play with Iori/Chikara a bit.


It really comes down to:

Is Rum either Hyōe, Rumi and Kanenori?
Or...
Is Rum a 4th suspect?

If it's the latter, then only Muga or Chikara could possibly be that suspect.

If it's the former, then that hinges to whether Gosho's simply going to go with Bourbon arc on repeat and have Kanenori be Rum, or he had Kanenori be so much like Rei in order to throw us off.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1255

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 14th, 2019, 4:50 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:It really comes down to:

Is Rum either Hyōe, Rumi and Kanenori?
Or...
Is Rum a 4th suspect?

If it's the latter, then only Muga or Chikara could possibly be that suspect.

If it's the former, then that hinges to whether Gosho's simply going to go with Bourbon arc on repeat and have Kanenori be Rum, or he had Kanenori be so much like Rei in order to throw us off.
I can hardly acknowledge Chikara as someone who fulfills the minimal requirements to potentially be the main antagonist of this arc in a "hidden suspect" route at this point, since he hasn't stayed relevant in terms of appearance rate at all after his latest appearance in association with Shuukichi's shogi competition (File 947), which is almost 100 chapters ago now, nor has he made an appearance outside of the shogi competition context, like Muga (where he appeared alone outside of his Oooka Butler context in File 981), compared to our only example of a hidden suspect, Araide, who appeared outside of the Clinic/Teitan school context during Bus Hijack (File 287) & Sato's omiai (File 328).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 377

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 15th, 2019, 12:49 am

Just a small reminder, Iori as of now has only done whatever has been ordered/mandated by Momiji.
His appearance in 981 was also mandated by Momiji(to foil Kazuha and Heiji's confession, hence the idea of using Friday the 13th, tbh in 1042 Momiji does the exactly same thing by using the help of Iori.)
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 143

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » November 15th, 2019, 6:33 am

But speaking of the wealthy Ooka family really... if they were on good terms with the Haneda family so much so that they were called forth to solve the previous case involving the mother who served the Haneda family, then why did the Haneda family requested help from the Akai family to solve the murder of Kohji instead of relaying help from the Ooka family? Or was there a connection between the Ooka family and the Akai's as well? :o
I wonder why Momiji was so good and keen with deductions, and whether she was encouraged or led by someone to work on her skill in that field.

Image
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)

Image
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 377

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 15th, 2019, 7:29 am

Probably because Ooka faliy don't hold that much cloud outside japan and Tsutomu was possibly the best in the business. Shinichi once said that he can't accept Shuichi as Holmes but can as Dr.Watson. Maybe it was a foreshadowing that Tsutomu would be Holmes.
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1255

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 15th, 2019, 8:14 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Probably because Ooka faliy don't hold that much cloud outside japan and Tsutomu was possibly the best in the business. Shinichi once said that he can't accept Shuichi as Holmes but can as Dr.Watson. Maybe it was a foreshadowing that Tsutomu would be Holmes.
Or that Tsutomu, who Akai takes after, is Watson, which would fit with that his wife's name is Mary.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1562

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 15th, 2019, 8:32 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:I can hardly acknowledge Chikara as someone who fulfills the minimal requirements to potentially be the main antagonist of this arc in a "hidden suspect" route at this point, since he hasn't stayed relevant in terms of appearance rate at all after his latest appearance in association with Shuukichi's shogi competition (File 947), which is almost 100 chapters ago now, nor has he made an appearance outside of the shogi competition context, like Muga (where he appeared alone outside of his Oooka Butler context in File 981), compared to our only example of a hidden suspect, Araide, who appeared outside of the Clinic/Teitan school context during Bus Hijack (File 287) & Sato's omiai (File 328).


A reason I like to keep that possibility open... is because it's shogi. The murder of a shogi player, his use of a shogi piece as a dying message, Shūkichi's occupation and history, etc... shogi really hangs over this whole arc, so Chikara not appearing for 100 files isn't an issue for me.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 377

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 15th, 2019, 11:18 pm

Iori/Chikara are the two sides of the same coin. Saying Iori/(Chikara) makes more sense than Chikara/(Iori) is like saying I prefer Illuminati conspiracy over vaccine conspiracy. Either both of them should be evaluated properly without any bias or not. There is no point in saying one is better than the other when neither are any likely than a Pink elephant.

Chikara-> has the advantage of age and connection regarding Shogi.
Iori -> A feeble connection through Ooka's but that needs more info and age is not in the range.(unless one gives some evidence of why Iori is not 30 other than a foreshadowing which happened regarding Kuroda's case (implying it is Kuroda rather Iori))

Mod edit: merged both posts. Please try to avoid doubleposting. Thank you for your understanding.
Last edited by Zerozaki4869 on November 16th, 2019, 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 143

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » December 3rd, 2019, 5:50 am

well... if the Rum arc reflects back to some of the old chapters, and the theme is about "old" since one of Rum's feature is an "old-man," then it may actually turn out to be something like a lesson about the true valuable treasure as opposed to the "time is money" statement like how the story goes in chapter 203...

Image
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)

Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests